The Thai Lie

[universe2000]

One of the most difficult aspects of Thai culture to adapt to is the need for Thai people to lie. They do it in order to save face and will provide wrong information rather than say 'I do not know'.

To help better adapt myself to Thai culture, are there examples of a lie that was frustrating for you?

Note: this is a subject of a larger post about culture shock to help people adapt to the culture. I separated the topic to get more specific feedback.

[rossco4434]

up to you !

[dbrenn]

One of the most difficult aspects of Thai culture to adapt to is the need for Thai people to lie. They do it in order to save face and will provide wrong information rather than say 'I do not know'.

To help better adapt myself to Thai culture, are there examples of a lie that was frustrating for you?

Note: this is a subject of a larger post about culture shock to help people adapt to the culture. I separated the topic to get more specific feedback.

Rubbish. You are talking to the wrong kind of people. Liars are everywhere if you spend time with the wrong crowd.

[Livinginexile]

One of the most difficult aspects of Thai culture to adapt to is the need for Thai people to lie. They do it in order to save face and will provide wrong information rather than say 'I do not know'.

To help better adapt myself to Thai culture, are there examples of a lie that was frustrating for you?

Note: this is a subject of a larger post about culture shock to help people adapt to the culture. I separated the topic to get more specific feedback.

It's got nothing to do with Thai culture, how can lying be part of a culture.

They lie to get what they want, the same reason anyone lies.

Be carefull you are not ripe for the picking my friend.

You sound like the type of guy that will excuse a Thai woman and her family for ripping you off because it's "Thai culture"

A lie is a lie. Nothing to do with culture.

[bravingbangkok]

Nothing wrong with a little white lie.

[Scott]

The one that I find most frustrating, and it's not limited to Thai staff but happens with all the Asian staff we have, is when I ask where someone is and I am sent on a wild goose chase. We have a large facility with 3 buildings and I ended running all over when the person I asked had no idea where the person was.

Most farangs are pretty straight forward and say they don't know.

But then I have to wonder who the idiot is--the one telling me or me for falling for it time and again!

[Livinginexile]

Nothing wrong with a little white lie.

...said the joker to the thief.

[Ulysses G.]

Someone explained to me once that telling someone the truth is a manner that hurts their feelings can be considered "wrong speech" in a way that violates Buddhist priciples. Telling a white lie to make them feel better is supposedly more honorable.

I do not know if I buy it.

[jingjingna]

I no longer get frustrated when a Thai person says....Dai kaa, ..IT usually means NO kaa but I don't know how to tell you na kaa!

[Birdman]

It is only a matter of not answering straight into the others face like in the West, if the answer would be negative or if the answer is not known. So actually it is much more polite and imaginative, but also entangled for the ignorant Westerner.

To handle answers not straight is not exclusively a Thai issue. Once a Japanese business man said, that he could not handle a plain "no" during negotiations with their German business partners.

[Texpat]

Lies are often told in self defense here.

Truth avoidance is alive and well -- a core value of Thainess is based on it.

Plus, they talk shit.

I am absolutely positive I could easily have an hour long conversation with an 100% uneducated Isaan tuktuk driver on the thermodynamic properties and aeroelasticity features of lead shielding in intergalactic travel.

If the person you're talking with is older than you, you're required to listen and nod approvingly no matter how much shit he's spewing.

[cognos]

Nothing wrong with a little white lie.

Yes,especially to save face

[Carib]

Well in the west there are lying governments and leaders, trying to safe face after the umpht F-up, so we don't differ that much. We as individuals of course lie in all kind of " honest" ways. Nuff said.

[Freddie_fly]

While I can see where the OP is coming from with this, I could also guarantee the replies would fall into three catagories, and It seems they have

1. absolute denial, Thai's are wonderful people, you just met some bad ones.

2. turn it around, Look at all the lying Farang

3. Aknowledgement, but its Ok!, it made you feel warm and fuzzy.

I totally agree with the poster when it comes to asking directions in the middle of Nakhon Nowhere, they will give you explicit directions, turn here, go straight then left at the Wat........

even when they have no idea where it is you are going. Which is probably understandable with my mangled Thai.

cheers

Freddie

[Texpat]

Excuse me sales man, where are the widgets?

"No have!"

What are these? They appear to be widgets.

"Mai khao chai."

[Chang_paarp]

"Truth is out of style."

DJ 900ft Jesus.

[Heng]

I'd imagine it would be particularly annoying on top of nearly always getting the cr@p end of the stick. Otherwise it's about as disturbing as seeing a homeless person in your peripheral vision.

[Oberkommando]

The OP is entirely correct and it is one of the most frustrating things about living in this country.

[Birdman]

Just adjust yourself to the situation and there will be no problem. That is: depending as less as possible to others - even in minor matters!

[G54]

One lie that springs to mind was from an ex g/f who insisted the two children at her parents home were a dead brothers offspring and not hers. She was helping to raise them as they were family.

I got suspicious when they called her mother all the time.

Eventually found out for certain they were her children.

Why did she lie about them not being her children? Because she was of the belief a man would not want her if he knew she already has children.

To deny your own offspring has to be shameful in my eyes, but......

[Texpat]

To hear a lie where there is a legimate reason is logical.

Did you shag my girlfriend?

"No."

But...

Can you fix my water heater?

"Yes." When clearly the answer should have been no.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Texpat

[robblok]

It is only a matter of not answering straight into the others face like in the West, if the answer would be negative or if the answer is not known. So actually it is much more polite and imaginative, but also entangled for the ignorant Westerner.

To handle answers not straight is not exclusively a Thai issue. Once a Japanese business man said, that he could not handle a plain "no" during negotiations with their German business partners.

You really are missing a few screws, in my opinion. Lying is much worse then saying you dont know, its a waste of time. Example

can you order this part... yes sure.. after a few weeks.. and stuff.. sorry cannot. Tell me straight right away will save us both more time.

You are trying to be more Thai then a Thai its crazy.

[sanook2me]

One of the most difficult aspects of Thai culture to adapt to is the need for Thai people to lie. They do it in order to save face and will provide wrong information rather than say 'I do not know'.

To help better adapt myself to Thai culture, are there examples of a lie that was frustrating for you?

Note: this is a subject of a larger post about culture shock to help people adapt to the culture. I separated the topic to get more specific feedback.

My biggest gripe living here is the farangs who lie on forums about Thailand.

closely followed by "no have" "yes you do its here!"

[bravingbangkok]

A brilliant one I heard from a multi-relationship Thai girl was, 'what they don't know can't hurt them'.

[Birdman]

It is only a matter of not answering straight into the others face like in the West, if the answer would be negative or if the answer is not known. So actually it is much more polite and imaginative, but also entangled for the ignorant Westerner.

To handle answers not straight is not exclusively a Thai issue. Once a Japanese business man said, that he could not handle a plain "no" during negotiations with their German business partners.

You really are missing a few screws, in my opinion. Lying is much worse then saying you dont know, its a waste of time. Example

can you order this part... yes sure.. after a few weeks.. and stuff.. sorry cannot. Tell me straight right away will save us both more time.

You are trying to be more Thai then a Thai its crazy.

No I am definitely not, but I am not shooting Thais because of their Thainess. Your argument is boring. You are in Thailand not in Holland and the best way to handle that is to adjust in a good manner you can live with. If you can't, be as independent as you can and live without ordering parts or order it from Holland.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Birdman

[elibangkok]

Lying, or witholding truth to save face is most certainly a part of Thai culture. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

Further, it can most definitely be damaging when taken to the extreme.

Imagine you are having surgery and the younger doctor sees something the older doctor is not doing properly. Can't directly call him out, needs to be done delicately. It is up to the older doctor to interpret the younger doctor's intent. I would rather the doctor focus on the surgery.

Or, think about airline pilots. First officer sees a mountain coming up. Captain does not take steps to avoid it. FO can't just say "Watch out for the mountain!". Instead, he would say "I heard there were mountains in this area".

I prefer the western way of direct communication.

[robblok]

It is only a matter of not answering straight into the others face like in the West, if the answer would be negative or if the answer is not known. So actually it is much more polite and imaginative, but also entangled for the ignorant Westerner.

To handle answers not straight is not exclusively a Thai issue. Once a Japanese business man said, that he could not handle a plain "no" during negotiations with their German business partners.

You really are missing a few screws, in my opinion. Lying is much worse then saying you dont know, its a waste of time. Example

can you order this part... yes sure.. after a few weeks.. and stuff.. sorry cannot. Tell me straight right away will save us both more time.

You are trying to be more Thai then a Thai its crazy.

No I am definitely not, but I am not shooting Thais because of their Thainess. Your argument is boring. You are in Thailand not in Holland and the best way to handle that is to adjust in a good manner you can live with. If you can't, be as independent as you can and live without ordering parts or order it from Holland.

My argument is really valid, if you can't do something just tell it. Im not shooting Thais at all im just saying that lying is impractical and stupid. I don't have a problems with Thais but it seems you cant complain about anything in your mind.

You seem to lock staying in Thailand with adapting and not beeing allowed to complain. For me that is different i choose to stay here and i will stay here still i will complain and point things out that are wrong. Do i get stressed up about it.. no .. Things can only be improved upon if you identify the problem. For instance if you know this is common in Thailand you can try to change all the Thais.. *no way* or you can ask things differently like can you order this product, if not its not a big problem i will ask around. This way you give them a way out.

Before i did not know about this now i do.

[Texpat]

^ ^ or worse the doc sees something he can't fix and knows you're doomed -- but won't tell you for some spiritual/religious/karma reason.

You die alone in your bed three months later without having the 20-girl, ocean yacht, booze orgy that you might have otherwise.

Shudder. We're not all wired the same, are we?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Texpat

[Petesear]

I no longer get frustrated when a Thai person says....Dai kaa, ..IT usually means NO kaa but I don't know how to tell you na kaa!

Should that read 'female'? (kaa)

[IanForbes]

The OP is entirely correct and it is one of the most frustrating things about living in this country.

Agreed. It is an Asian thing that has something to do about saving face. It is not considered a "lie" by Asian standards. That is not how things are done in Asia. It is most frustrating in business when you ask when a product can be delivered and the Asian person you are asking will reply whatever they THINK you want to hear. If you ask if a product can be delivered in a week they will say yes, even if there is no way possible they could deliver it in that time frame.

If you ask directions from someone who doesn't know what you want they will try to be polite and give you an answer even if it's not what you asked. Texpat's story of discussing quantum physics with a Issan farmer is a good example... and quite funny even though true.

It's frustrating to be sure, but nothing to be angry about.

On a similar vein it's like one of the many differences between women and men. Men want a straight forward yes or no answer. Women tend to search for deeper meanings.