Battered Tourism Sector Seeks Urgent Government Help

[Spalpeen]

The only tourists coming to Thailand these days are the dyslexic market, the ones who thought they were going to Taiwan but booked the wrong ticket !

The govt. seems to be concerned about the fall in tourism but there's never a mention of the resident expat market. By my reckoning an expat who spends 50 weeks a year here and runs a business or supports a family, is worth 25 tourists who come for a fortnight each. And resident expats also tend to attract family and friends to come visit.

Apart from the obvious - airports, costs, image - I've come to believe that the standard of education here is a big part of the problem. I know Thais' - relatives and in laws - who have so called university degrees but can't point to Thailand on a map of the world. I kid you not, try this with your own relatives.

[roamer]

Maybe some of you statisticians would like to give these Malaysian tourist figures for 1st quarter 2009 compared to 2008 the benefit of your analsis...excuse the spelling error

Edited June 17, 2009 by roamer

[ding]

#1 Bad economy. Don't blame Thais only, US politicians let the greed FTW!

#2 Visa rules that send a message "get out"

#3 Prices up

[liloldspirut]

It was only a matter of time - What do they expect, Tourism to be booming after all what has gone on.

I think it will go even worse unless something is done to make Tourists want to visit Thailand again.

Time will tell anyway.

My Thai/American wife of 35 years and I know this problem will persist for many years to come. First there are no visitors or tourist iin Thailand. There are only Foreigners/Farangs. People are correct the Thai police are very underpaid and left to substatiate their income with corruption. My wife and I are always stopped between Pattaya and Surin for speeding and pebbles on the tire treads, well not so bad, and we never go over 90 clicks because we try to save fuel. We know that we will only come to visit the family and just buy a home back in the states instead of here, we are sorry to say.

Silly question, but do you think corruption would stop if the Police were paid 10 times what they are paid now?

The degree of corruption is directly proportional to the Thai Gov's Corruption. Not a silly question.

[finnomick]

.......and of course, the crap exchange rates have nothing at all to do with the down-turn in tourist arrivals. When will they get their heads out of the sand ?

[mommysboy]

Ok i replied earlier to this thread and i have taken everyone's thoughts on the matter and here's what i want to say now

Firstly yes there is a global downturn which has been festering for the last 18 months or so.No jobs,No money,No holiday.

secondly the government is so busy with trying to overthrow itself it's lost track of the real issues here and the consequences of it's actions being right or wrong is irrelevant, eg AIRPORT SHUTDOWN. BIG MISTAKE.The repocusions will be felt for a long time yet.

Thirdly Visa issues. How can anybody invest in a country where they dont want you. All they want is your money .PERIOD.Or am i missing something?

And to end my thoughts on the matter the virus has played a part for me as i mentioned in my earlier post on not travelling to Thailand or anywhere on a plane for that matter due to the risk factor for the time being.I love Thailand and it's people (the ones that are not trying to rip you off).And for anybody who's going to reply to my post i'm married to a beutiful Thai lady with a very cheeky and lovable baby boy.

Nope, not missing a thing, and it seems to apply if you just want to be a tourist too. They don't want us, it's clear, so I for one can't feel sorry for anyone.

[liloldspirut]

Ok i replied earlier to this thread and i have taken everyone's thoughts on the matter and here's what i want to say now

Firstly yes there is a global downturn which has been festering for the last 18 months or so.No jobs,No money,No holiday.

secondly the government is so busy with trying to overthrow itself it's lost track of the real issues here and the consequences of it's actions being right or wrong is irrelevant, eg AIRPORT SHUTDOWN. BIG MISTAKE.The repocusions will be felt for a long time yet.

Thirdly Visa issues. How can anybody invest in a country where they dont want you. All they want is your money .PERIOD.Or am i missing something?

And to end my thoughts on the matter the virus has played a part for me as i mentioned in my earlier post on not travelling to Thailand or anywhere on a plane for that matter due to the risk factor for the time being.I love Thailand and it's people (the ones that are not trying to rip you off).And for anybody who's going to reply to my post i'm married to a beutiful Thai lady with a very cheeky and lovable baby boy.

Nope, not missing a thing, and it seems to apply if you just want to be a tourist too. They don't want us, it's clear, so I for one can't feel sorry for anyone.

It seems that Us Expats love Thailand more than some Thais do inclusive in the Gov. They have choked to death the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs, or at least she is comitosed .

[harleyclarkey]

Maybe some of you statisticians would like to give these Malaysian tourist figures for 1st quarter 2009 compared to 2008 the benefit of your analsis...excuse the spelling error

Nice one.....the figures for Europeans are holding up well. In fact every sector except "others" and Korea.

Could you take it that tourists are travelling but skipping out Thailand?

[mickba]

there are far too many people in this thread mixing up 'tourism' with 'residency'. what attracts tourists to thailand is not the same thing as what brings residents and retirees in...............................

You are correct, but it can be difficult to separate the two, particularly in Pattaya, because residents were generally once tourists and many tourists think of becoming resident. The two intermingle and look forward to their reunions and can be perceived as one set of people with similar views and experiences of life in Thailand. There are different visa requirements etc, but you often hear them speak with one voice as the tourists will take on board their resident friends' views and advice.

Currently, whatever their choices may be, they are not happy about Thailand. Many who have become resident stay in Pattaya because that's where their tourist friends come to. If the tourists stop coming they may consider other options. For that reason and others, Cambodia may well reap the benefits in due course.

Edited June 17, 2009 by mickba

[cecco]

I don't think its that bad,

When my (Thai) wife wants to order a hotel room in Bangkok asking for Thai price they say 1.200 Baht after telling her name with the non-Thai surname they raise the price with 500 Baht to 1.700 so we did not go there, and so several hotels more the same story.

The Last one ( after talking with the manager ) allowed it but no breakfast included ! telling him in that case no deal he agreed for including the breakfast.

So I think it's not so bad at all or........my idea better some than no money at all, but it seems some don't understand

I would like to address several issues:

1. Pricing. I have been doing business in thailand since 1978/9.

2. I now live in Thailand.

3. I have a retirement visa.

4. When I leave Pai to visit or transit Chiang Mai, I stay in the same hotel. They charge 2400 baht on the internet, with a special price of 1500. I pay 800. This is not different than the USA or Indo, or other countries were I have lived or stayed for long periods of time. Once you learn the prices, you pay differently.

5. My g/f is Lisu, and frankly, I don't like her to bargain, because I usually pay MORE than if I bargain. I know the prices, and she seems to think it's okay to over pay.

6. Some guys have whores for g/f. One day, a guy was telling a story, in real life, about paying a whore. The girl stole his money and left him in a bad condition. One of the group said, "oh, my, are you telling us that you hired a whore to "*" you, and when she "*" you, you are got upset? Didn't she do what you paid her to do?" What response can you give? But it would appear that no matter what class of girl most get inside the kingdom, nobody seems to get a woman with gratitude and appreciation.

7. I am a born again Christian. I am finding that most of Christian Asia has given up on Thailand as far has possessing any Christian morals.

8. Gratitude and respect seem to be missing from the Thai societies (meaning Khon Thai, Khon Lisu, Khon Akkha, Khon Karen, etc.). This is not the history of Thailand at all.

9. Thailand can't do much now. People come to see "Siam," not "Thailand." And Siam has been smothered to death.

Edited June 17, 2009 by cecco

[mickba]

What do you guys think? Can the damage be undone fast or will it be a tough market for Thailand for years to come?

It can be fixed but it will take 10 yrs of good clean government and proper local management. I think everytime the have political unrest they slide back 5 years and at there current rate in 5 yrs time they are going to be 50 yrs behind the rest of the world. Can you get lower than a 3rd world country? lets see.

Clean up the sex industry and the image it is giving to the world of thailand. They can have one but take it of the streets and the in your face way it is at the moment put it behind closed doors like all other civilised countries.

Can you be more specific. What civilized countries you have in mind?

I expect he means eg. "Western" countries where it's either literally behind closed doors or in known zones eg. one generally knowingly chooses to visit the red light district in Amsterdam.

Perhaps you might say that the whole of Pattaya is such a zone? To an extent yes, but I've found prostitution is so very much accepted and in your face here, whereas, even in Cambodia, they have made real efforts to remove it from the public view of their country, albeit it is still there for those who choose to look for it.

I like Cambodia more and more lately.

[tombkkDE]

deleted - but check out this one ... (www)moodiereport.com/document.php?c_id=1113&doc_id=20976

The poor May figures are linked to the political instability in the country which has hit tourism hard, plus the global financial crisis and the Influenza A(H1N1). It has been a bad year for travel and tourism in Thailand with year-on-year monthly international traffic falls of -17.97% in January, -21.15% in February, -15.47% in March and -12.91% in April. For the first five months, international traffic was down by -17.93% year-on-year.

Edited June 17, 2009 by tombkkDE

[RoueLeJour]

I don't think its that bad,

When my (Thai) wife wants to order a hotel room in Bangkok asking for Thai price they say 1.200 Baht after telling her name with the non-Thai surname they raise the price with 500 Baht to 1.700 so we did not go there, and so several hotels more the same story.

The Last one ( after talking with the manager ) allowed it but no breakfast included ! telling him in that case no deal he agreed for including the breakfast.

So I think it's not so bad at all or........my idea better some than no money at all, but it seems some don't understand

Did you approach the hotel directly? Hotels have a policy of charging "walk ins" the full list. A travel agent could probably get it for you cheaper.

Last time I stayed in BKK at the Narai the travel agent directly opposite could get me a much better deal than the hotel would give me, either in person or on the internet.

[nakachalet]

been listening in on the parliamentary debate today, wed 09-06-17. the various

numbers and statistics thrown around were not much different from this main

post above.

various senators would use different sets of stat to support whatever they were

purportedly saying or pushing. most have no shame or know no shame in whatever

they were saying or implying on the floor, just so they would feel good or appear

to be right in their own arguments.

worst of all, i must have been even a greater fool myself.... to have spend so many

hours listening to whatever they were trying to say....

all the time hoping that after next election there will be more honest representatives

on the floor.

yes, summarily the current govt does seem to be more transparent in its running of

the country and the projects.

[CeeGee]

I am a frequent visitor to Thailand and have many friends here and have contemplated buying a house with my Thai partner and living there.Due to various problems, owning land, visa etc that is currently on the back burner.

However, each time I come I have to plough through the internet to get the best prices for hotels, flights car hire etc. I can never take the price I first see as it is usually well over the top. I am lucky as I have good idea where to look.

However, the average tourist usually just wants to book it and they look at the first price they see. If it is too expensive, they pass on.

I have stayed in many hotels, hired cars etc all over the world, and the UK, and on a regular basis, I get e mails and letters from these companies (some I last used over 10 years ago) telling me about special offers, discounts, promotions. This has ranged from stay one night, get one night free, upgrades on car hire etc, I am sure you get the picture.

In all the time I have spent in Thailand, not one company has ever contacted me (apart from Bangkok Air) with any form of offer or incentive to book with them in the future. I have stayed with one hotel chain at least six times and every time I book with them, I have to ignore the posted price (which is usually well overpriced) and play games to get some kind of discount as a loyal returning customer.They do have promotions, but you have to look hard to find them. They never send me anything saying, we have promotion next month or book in the next three months and we will give you xxx% discount.

I suggest each company involved in the tourist industry starts looking at their own marketing strategy and start directing their efforts at targeting past customers, and not rely on customers coming to them, go out and find them!.E mails cost nothing to send and nowadays most companies have a database of past customers.

Ps

I did get a loyalty card once from a massage establishment, offering after five massages I get one free, but I think e mails from a massage parlor to my home might upset the domestic bliss a little bit.

[LTGTR]

How does 165000 to 27000 equate to a 33.45% drop? Even if this statistic was meant to be a drop "OF" 27000, it does not add up. This is wildly wrong or else I an misinterpreting "year on year".......

Anyone?

Me too! If they can't compute something as simple as a percentage,how could they possibly figure a cure to their tourism ills? And they were "alarmed" by the numbers?Idiots!

Edited June 17, 2009 by LTGTR

[david555]

kasikorn and bank of ayudhya ATM's don't charge a dime on foreign CC

Forget it , yesterday creditcard withdrawl , dialog for the 150 bath surcharge , KASIKORN ATM...!!!!!

[liloldspirut]

been listening in on the parliamentary debate today, wed 09-06-17. the various

numbers and statistics thrown around were not much different from this main

post above.

various senators would use different sets of stat to support whatever they were

purportedly saying or pushing. most have no shame or know no shame in whatever

they were saying or implying on the floor, just so they would feel good or appear

to be right in their own arguments.

worst of all, i must have been even a greater fool myself.... to have spend so many

hours listening to whatever they were trying to say....

all the time hoping that after next election there will be more honest representatives

on the floor.

yes, summarily the current govt does seem to be more transparent in its running of

the country and the projects.

I watched also. They are trying to convince the 'Red Shirt and its sympathizers' in yje senate to vote like the PM to approve borrowing money from the Thai Banks. But the question that the Gov. would not answer is, what happened to the Gov. Employees pension funds money that was taken by the Present Gov. and investeed abroad. Yes, now they can not receive their pensions after working so long for the Gov. Till that is settled the contra senate group will not approve the loans from the Banks.

[beerchang]

Westerners prefer not to be around muslims.

I'll thank you NOT to speak for me (westerner), skool, about who I like to be around.

Expats (me included). This is about tourism, tourists, you know, holidaymakers. (start a new thread titled 'complaints about Thailand as a whole' if you wish to keep commenting on your business or your visa)

Tourism is down everywhere. As for the troubles Thailand has had... friends in the UK heard about some trouble in Bkk, saw a little bit in the newspaper and on telly. All over now. "Love to visit Thailand" is all i've heard from people I know.

Every tourist gets ripped off (one way or another), particularly on 1st visit to a country (me included).

Summary: Lots of miserable expats moaning cause they aint on holiday no more. Not everyone thinking about coming to Thailand knows what you 'experts' know, and /or isn't really too bothered because they're on holiday. Tourism is down everywhere (sorry for repeating myself)

Enjoy life everyone

[Dap]

We put our health first because it seems the flu is escalating and I've read on the Internet somewhere the authorities are trying to keep a low profile on the actual figures(correct me if i'm wrong)

if its on the internet IT HAS TO BE TRUE !!!!

Bangkok Post: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 Headline: "Officials muzzled on H1N1"

"The Public Health Ministry is asking provincial health and hospital chiefs not to speak to the media about influenza A (H1N1) cases in an effort to calm disquiet over the extent of the spread of the virus."

"Ministry spokesman Suphan Sithamma said a letter was being sent to senior health officials warning them not to say anything about the number of flu cases and details about the patients. All information was to be filtered through health authorities in Bangkok."

[PXR5]

The problem is not a single one. Would obviously be too easy ! Thailand has been one of the first, if not the first country to open its doors widely to tourists. Farang have been coming massively to Thailand for over 25 years. It's neighbors opened their doors much later. If you want nature and nice beaches, you will be much better off in the neighboring countries. Life is cheaper and people more interested and interesting ... farang are newer here. To me the biggest problem of Thailand is it wanting to become a second Dubai (bloody horrible), I might just as well stay in Europe ! What do you want to discover in Thailand nowadays ? The backyard of a bar ? In Spain they are starting to realise more and more what they have done to nature and to the beaches. The thai will realise as well ... sooner or later ... unfortunately it will be later ... too late ! Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Vietnam and Indonesia have the nature that Thailand has given up for building and building ! The Mexican flu, or whatever its name, is not responsible, but it is so easy to point at farang for being responsible, ISN'T IT ????? Clean up Thailand, try to bring back the wildlife and farang will come again. Back to the roots !

THERE SHOULD BE A LAW SAYING : NO BUILDING CAN BE HIGHER THAN THE HIGHEST PALMTREE !!!!

[Dap]

Thailand's tourist arrivals sharply drop to a critical level, Mr. Tosaporn said, in June alone, the number of tourist arrivals has dropped from 165,000 in the same period of 2008, to 27,000 in 2009 due to the Influenza A(H1N1) outbreak, or 33.45 per cent year-on-year.

-- TNA 2009-06-17

So, 165,000 down to 27,000. That's a 138,000 less tourists....that's an 83.6% drop from 2008 to 2009. They got bigger tourism problems than they'll report. They better keep that rice exportation industry a float.

DO YOU THINK THEY WILL RECOGNIZE OUR PLACE HERE

OR WILL THEY CONTINUE TO TREAT US AS ONLY VISITORS

THEY RELY HEAVILY ON A TOURIST INDUSTRY THAT THEY SHUN DAY AFTER DAY

BUT NOW THEY ARE CRYING AND DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO

MAYBE A FEW LESSONS IN LONGEVITY FOR THE TOURISTS AND RESIDENT FARANGS AS WELL

Yeah, THEY better recognize YOUR PLACE in LOS. How dare they not recognize YOUR place there. THEY better do as you (foreigner) wants them to do. How dare THEY make their own rules for their own country. THEY need to do what foreigners want them to do.

Get a clue siamjimi. I hope a bunch of South Korean trash come to your country and demand that your government recognizes THEIR (Koreans) place in your country and that they tell your government what to do.

In the "Politically Correct" U.S., THEY already do.

[nakachalet]

liloldspirut

that was a strange info that pensioners were not receiving their monthly check. could you be more specific?

my next door govt retiree was receiving his on time and plus the bonus as well. not at the same time though. lol

can you pls provide the source of this info?

also, the info on current govt taking govt pension funds and investing it overseas. pls advise specificities.

did they not say that they are going to borrow from overseas? or did they say that they are going to invest....? lol

puzzled....

naka

[keepsamuiclean]

Went only through the first 4 pages and the last. So I'm not too sure whether somebody mentioned already the uncontrolled constructions during the last years in Samui (where I live and work for a rented resort with positive figures since April...). IMO the government has nothing to do with "rescueing the industry"; the local government bodies which issued permits for illegal constructions against tea money are to be blamed and prosecuted. Tourists coming to the island for years are not coming back as they do not recognize Samui any longer. Almost every beach plot is built up, three storeys - 15 mtr. from the beach..., wall enchroachment onto publich beach land, stinking main road in Chaweng, "luxury" hotels built on the ring road...Most of the business people who might cry now had no idea of helping the tourism industry of Thailand - they were greedy and nothing else.

[Dap]

"It is the responsibility of all Thais to take as much money as possible from Farangs"

Thaksin (Thais Love Thais Party) - Quoted in BKK Post

Nice quote, nicer avatar.

[henryalleman]

The more I read this topic I come to the conclusion that there are 2 Thailand's. The tourist rip off thailand and the common Thai society far away from the tourist and expat areas.

And by this I don't mean some backward village in Isan or Up North. There are numerous areas in Bangkok Metropolis where its still good living, where are no double pricing, where you can still have lunch for 50 Baht. Where you can rent an comfortable western style 2 fully furnished bedroom condo for 8 to 12000 baht with a spectacular view from your balcony at night. In a nice and quite environment. Where the police friendly correct you when you make a wrong U turn, and warning you that you should not do it again and don't ask the usual 200 Baht tea money. The night life there has the same amenities as in soi Cowboy or Nana but for a much more reasonable price and more lay back attitude.

I visited Thailand for more than 30 years and I always avoided the expat scene or tourist places because that's not the real Thailand. The real Thailand is still a wonderful place to relocate if you keep cool and accept the sometimes Kafkaian way how they do things. But in general the Thai big company's are very costumer service minded and give an efficient and correct service.

On the other hand the tourist hot spots are a complete disaster and rip off. If I was a tourist I can name at least a dozen countries where its much more better than in Thailand to spend my holliday.

Of course this is a personal view.

[Trouble]

I think there have been some good points made here. However I believe that a most of the posters here are either expats living in Thailand or frequent visitors (probably the reason they keep up with things on ThaiVisa). Genuine tourism does not rise and fall in Thailand because of the visa regulations, cost of visas, scams, ripoffs, ATM fees, dual pricing, etc. Tourism is a result of people wanting to take a nice vacation to some destination where they can enjoy themselves for one to three weeks. Many Europeans want a nice place in the sun for their winter months. They enjoy going to the beach, enjoy nice meals, and stay in hotels which cater to their needs. Most do not stay in cheaper hotels or skimp on things. That is not to say that they don't calculate the cost of their vacation in Thailand against costs to visit other locations. Someone mentioned Egypt. There are numerous resorts along the red sea with scuba diving, boating trips, luxury hotels with all the amenities. Why wouldn't someone consider this alternative because of the shorter flight and possibly at less cost. Real tourism in Thailand is not based on the cheap charlie tourist, sex tourist, or back packers as none of these really spend all that much money. I think the protests, flu crisis, and most importantly the down turn in the global economy do have real effects on the tourism industry. Certainly people have less discretionary income and they are going to look for the best bargin for the type of vacation they want. Vietnam and Cambodia will certainly see increases in tourism as they have been building the infastructure to draw tourists. This undoubtedly will cause a drop in the number of visitors going to Thailand. I think in discussing the fall in tourism it is necessary to put oneself in the position of a working guy in a Western country wanting to spend a nice vacation away from home with family and friends. That means seeing the sights, enjoying the food, night markets, resorts, beaches at a reasonable and affordable price. Closure of airports, swine flu, protests certainly do not help one make a decision to visit Thailand when other alternatives are available.

Further a lot of discussion is seen here from expats about ATM, fees, visa rules, scams, rip offs, etc. While I have not lived in Thailand, I have visited there regularly over the last 30 years. I have paid more to enter certain historical sights and been ripped off by taxi drivers. I am a foreigner and don't speak the language. Fortunately I have learned from those experiences. Isn't that part of travel anywhere. I just returned from Rio de Janiero and I can't tell you how many times taxi drives tried to rip me off. That's life and we learn from those things. It was never enough that I thought it worth arguing about. I think there is a tendency for expats to assume that they contribute to the overall Thai economy more than they do. Sure those that work and pay taxes probably do contribute. But many of the retirees that I know personally enjoy living in Thailand because they are on fixed income and it is relatively inexpensive and has a rather large expat community in some cities providing social networks. Nothing wrong with that but putting things into perspective they do NOT contribute THAT much to the overall Thai economy.

I really think it is necessary to separate the complaints of the expats and those of the general tourist population when discussing the drop in tourism in Thailand and throughout the world for that matter.

[beerchang]

I think there have been some good points made here. However I believe that a most of the posters here are either expats living in Thailand or frequent visitors (probably the reason they keep up with things on ThaiVisa). Genuine tourism does not rise and fall in Thailand because of the visa regulations, cost of visas, scams, ripoffs, ATM fees, dual pricing, etc. Tourism is a result of people wanting to take a nice vacation to some destination where they can enjoy themselves for one to three weeks. Many Europeans want a nice place in the sun for their winter months. They enjoy going to the beach, enjoy nice meals, and stay in hotels which cater to their needs. Most do not stay in cheaper hotels or skimp on things. That is not to say that they don't calculate the cost of their vacation in Thailand against costs to visit other locations. Someone mentioned Egypt. There are numerous resorts along the red sea with scuba diving, boating trips, luxury hotels with all the amenities. Why wouldn't someone consider this alternative because of the shorter flight and possibly at less cost. Real tourism in Thailand is not based on the cheap charlie tourist, sex tourist, or back packers as none of these really spend all that much money. I think the protests, flu crisis, and most importantly the down turn in the global economy do have real effects on the tourism industry. Certainly people have less discretionary income and they are going to look for the best bargin for the type of vacation they want. Vietnam and Cambodia will certainly see increases in tourism as they have been building the infastructure to draw tourists. This undoubtedly will cause a drop in the number of visitors going to Thailand. I think in discussing the fall in tourism it is necessary to put oneself in the position of a working guy in a Western country wanting to spend a nice vacation away from home with family and friends. That means seeing the sights, enjoying the food, night markets, resorts, beaches at a reasonable and affordable price. Closure of airports, swine flu, protests certainly do not help one make a decision to visit Thailand when other alternatives are available.

Further a lot of discussion is seen here from expats about ATM, fees, visa rules, scams, rip offs, etc. While I have not lived in Thailand, I have visited there regularly over the last 30 years. I have paid more to enter certain historical sights and been ripped off by taxi drivers. I am a foreigner and don't speak the language. Fortunately I have learned from those experiences. Isn't that part of travel anywhere. I just returned from Rio de Janiero and I can't tell you how many times taxi drives tried to rip me off. That's life and we learn from those things. It was never enough that I thought it worth arguing about. I think there is a tendency for expats to assume that they contribute to the overall Thai economy more than they do. Sure those that work and pay taxes probably do contribute. But many of the retirees that I know personally enjoy living in Thailand because they are on fixed income and it is relatively inexpensive and has a rather large expat community in some cities providing social networks. Nothing wrong with that but putting things into perspective they do NOT contribute THAT much to the overall Thai economy.

I really think it is necessary to separate the complaints of the expats and those of the general tourist population when discussing the drop in tourism in Thailand and throughout the world for that matter.

Trouble, I think I love you !!! Wish I could have put it like that.

[tonga200]

there are far too many people in this thread mixing up 'tourism' with 'residency'. what attracts tourists to thailand is not the same thing as what brings residents and retirees in. it's a global perception issue that tourists have rather than the minutiae of living here day to day and all the travails that go with that. top level = political instability, risk of riots, airport closures and that's about it. every tourist destination in the world has its scare stories of police corruption, muggings, drownings, the odd disease outbreak and what have you. they're incidental to the average tourist, they just believe what the foreign office tells them. thailand needs to improve its public message about this being a safe and stable country to come to which is beautiful and full of lovely people. everything after that is very secondary.

Agree completely. Have just returned from first visit to Thailand and found it to be great value for money. I'm Irish and got a really good fare with Malaysian Airlines from Dublin via Heathrow and Kuala Lumpur to Phuket. Got really good hotels for a fraction of what they would cost in Europe and food and drink were also considerably cheaper than almost anywhere in Europe (I travel a lot in Europe....Thank You Ryanair). So overall I had a cheaper 3 week holiday in Thailand than I could possibly have had in Europe. So Thailang is still a low cost travel destination. But people simply aren't travelling because of the global economic situation. Confidence is way down and what money people have they are holding onto because of future uncertainty. There were only 20 people on my flight from Kuala Lumpur to Phuket (boeing 737-400). Many of the comments here pertain to residents not holiday makers as the average holiday maker has no knowledge of, or interest in owning property or visa regulations etc.

The Thai Baht is not the problem. What many have failed to recognise is that the $ and GB£ have plummeted in value which is hardly the Thais fault. Both the $ and GB£ have devalued about 30% against the euro (making UK and USA low cost destinations for euro travellers) but the Baht has remained relatively stable against the euro.

But the bad publicity surrounding airport closures, riots, political instability, the ASEAN summit fiasco, the killing of the guy on his boat by fishermen etc have all taken have all given a perception of an unsafe destination.

Add to this the international publicity that surrounded, and the perception that resulted from, the guy prevented from boarding his flight in Phuket because somebody wrongly believed his passport to be false and the fact that he then spent so long in a Thai prison even after his passport was shown to be genuine. Or the aussie woman held in custody for stealing a bar mat. I'm not commenting on whether these people were authors of their own misfortune or not I'm merely commenting on the perception of Thailand that these cases made internationally. And remember that to the average tourist looking at a holiday destination in a brochure, perception is everything.

Anyway, from a personal perspective I loved Thailand. I found the people to be helpful, courteous and gracious. The scenery and beaches are beautiful and the weather (though a tad hot for me) wonderful. I only have 2 complaints though perhaps not enough to put me off a return visit.

(1) As a single 52 year old male I was immediately assumed to be a sex tourist by all (farang and Thai alike) and was treated as something of an oddity for not having a dolly bird (or guy) half my age on my arm.

(2) I had several conversations (nothing more) with a Thai woman working in the hotel I stayed in on Samui and lo and behold 3 days after I got home I got the "Sick Buffalo" SMS. I can only presume she got my phone no. from hotel records. I haven't replied or sent money

[Time Traveller]

There is not a country in the world at the moment where the tourism sector is happy. This is solely the cause of the current global economic crisis and really waste of time complaining to the government. In reality Tourists wouldn't even notice Thailand's polices about

- Visa policy (every other major country requires visas e.g. China, India, UK, Euro, Australia and of course the most difficult of them all - USA)

- Scams by rogue people. (Like what country in the world doesn't this happen in?)

- Different prices for hotels for different people (hasn't anyone ever holidayed in another country or travelled on a airplane?)

- racism and corruption (again what country in the world doesn't have these problems?)

- Owning land (Why would a tourist care about that?)

- Alcohol prices (Well perhaps if you're only interested in drinking day and night- are these tourists that anyone really wants?)