Costs Of Adding A 4 Yr Old To Your Life?

[Simonpetterson]

I'm planning to raise my GF's neice as my own in a few years, with us being seen as her parents, but am thinking of making it sooner rather than later.

I work until about 4pm each day, and my GF until about 9pm.

We're living in BKK, and she'd be sent to a normal government school.

I'm just trying to figure out about how much extra it would cost, we currently live on under 40K, which leaves a few K to go into the bank.

I earn between 45-55K and my GF under 10K. We're both in our late 20s and together about 3 years.

Am I being naive in thinking the basic costs are a bit for extra food, some extra clothes/toys etc, and maybe a few 100B to the women in the apartment to babysit from time to time?

[loong]

It is quite possible that a child will only add a few thousand to your monthly costs.

But if you are both working, not easy. Who will take her and collect her from school? What about school holidays? When she is sick? Weekends? You would probably have to factor in quite a lot for childminding. Don't count on just paying the odd 100 Baht.

In Bangkok, you may well have to allow 10,000 per month for food clothes toys childminding etc. during the holidays

[snuggzzz]

Permanent child care is expensive, plus school fees, clothing, medical Insurance, the list is endless. Good Luck

[Simonpetterson]

Who will take her and collect her from school?

GF would take her, I would collect her.

What about school holidays?

I would be taking care of her as I work in a school myself.

Childcaring would be more neighbours helping us out, and us helping them out.

Thanks for the inputs.

[harrry]

If you are thinking of taking her into your family also take into account how you will handle leaving the country if at some time in the future you wish to do so or have to. Check if it is possible for her to return with you or at least make some arrangements for when this happens as the effects could be more devestating to her than not having her in your family now.

[Simonpetterson]

that is true and something that's being thought over.

[billd766]

Our son will be 5 in August and the joy he brings far outweighs the costs.

However in practical terms we send him on the school bus to the farther village and that costs us up country about 4,000 baht a term including the school bus.

As my wife runs her own shop and restaurant, holidays and sick time are not important as there is always someone to look after him and I am now retired so I see him on the bus and meet him off it in the afternoons.

Toys are a bit expensive as I spoil him but usually between jobs but now I have retired he doesn't get so much.

He is growing and goes through a set of school uniforms fairly quickly at the moment and that is not cheap but not that expensive.

We also have medical insurance for him but my wife has dealt with that so I have no idea of the cost.

[harrry]

If you work out the problem I mentioned before do not worryabout the cost. Your family's needs will adjust to whatever income you have and it is worth it.

[Simonpetterson]

Thanks.

[torrenova]

The thing is that it is a 20 year plus committment and you haven't even thought about your own needs yet, in terms of kids etc. I commend your thoughtfullness but I honestly don't think you are in a position to take on the responsibility.

You work but unfortunately your salary is not very high. You are in Bangkok so things are as expensive as they get really in Thailand. I don't know your work hours but they may change over time and just how secure is your job ? Is your early finish to work indicative of you being a teacher ?

If in nappies then you get through Bt1500 or more a month. If on milk, then another Bt1500 or more a month. Clothes, toiletries and other stuff add another couple ,of thousand a month. If on normal food, then it costs nothing. But if you use a laundry service, then you're going to have to get a washing machine.

Where do you live ? You can't have the kid with you if you rent a studio can you ? You'll need a 2 bed place and the associated costs with that. I guess that if you don't have it already, you'll need UBC and the kids channels. Medical and other stuff can be insured but there is another cost. Self insurance is not really possible if you have no money.

Very basically, I think the kid will use up more than you currently save and eat into all your free time. Expenses will increase over time and you have to get yourself to a better level before you take on such a task.

As some have said, what happens if you move or if you split up ? You've got my admiration but I advise you to think long and hard about whether you are ready or capable to do this.

[thirdeyedmt]

I'm planning to raise my GF's neice as my own in a few years, with us being seen as her parents, but am thinking of making it sooner rather than later.

I work until about 4pm each day, and my GF until about 9pm.

We're living in BKK, and she'd be sent to a normal government school.

I'm just trying to figure out about how much extra it would cost, we currently live on under 40K, which leaves a few K to go into the bank.

I earn between 45-55K and my GF under 10K. We're both in our late 20s and together about 3 years.

Am I being naive in thinking the basic costs are a bit for extra food, some extra clothes/toys etc, and maybe a few 100B to the women in the apartment to babysit from time to time?

what you intend to do is very honorable, look at it this way there are familys out there with a combined income less than your who seem to manage perfectly well (even in the uk)

i think by adding an extra mouth to your table you will cut back no doubt on the unecessary (expensive nights out, opera seats at the cinema etc), but the pleasure you will gain from this will far out weigh any of those things that you will not miss anyway.

with regard to childrens clothing and toys.........we al know you buy what you can afford, there is nothing worse than spoiled children, gifts should be for special occasions or as a reward for achievment, not given to make up for lack of love or for the simple i want...

with a set of simple rules that everyone in your house follows you have more than enough to raise a happy child..

i know this because i have friends that do.

good luck

[torrenova]

In addition, I'd ask if the subject of their own kids ever came up and whether there was talk of "when we can afford it" at the table ?

[thirdeyedmt]

In addition, I'd ask if the subject of their own kids ever came up and whether there was talk of "when we can afford it" at the table ?

not sure if this was intended for me but ill answer anyway.

no "when we can afford it" is not an issue, however "when i think you deserve it" is what we use in our house... as everyone knows children never stop wanting, but to simply overgive takes away the specialness of recieving a gift.

[torrenova]

In addition, I'd ask if the subject of their own kids ever came up and whether there was talk of "when we can afford it" at the table ?

not sure if this was intended for me but ill answer anyway.

no "when we can afford it" is not an issue, however "when i think you deserve it" is what we use in our house... as everyone knows children never stop wanting, but to simply overgive takes away the specialness of recieving a gift.

Open to all but directed at the OP. Together 3 years, not married, no kids yet. Surely the discussion must be on the horizon for her if not for him.

As for deserving it rather than being able to afford it then I am in some agreement but I think you have to be rational as well. I don't think they can afford to live themselves nevermind with a kid. I think it is poignent that the Thai government requires retired people to show Bt65,000 a month to live on, which is substancially above what the OP earns. I doubt that calculation includes provision for kids either. Skewed argument I know but I don't think 50k or so is enough. I have a young baby, I know what it costs and I wouldn't even think about doing it on 50k a month. Life would be a long, hard struggle on that amount and just what would happen if he lost his job ?

[loong]

If in nappies then you get through Bt1500 or more a month. If on milk, then another Bt1500 or more a month. Clothes, toiletries and other stuff add another couple ,of thousand a month. If on normal food, then it costs nothing. But if you use a laundry service, then you're going to have to get a washing machine.

Hopefully a 4 year old should only be needing nappies while asleep and be drinking less milk. We spend about 1200 Baht per month for Mama poko pants and carnation 3+ combined. Laundry has reduced dramatically from a year ago, but still quite a lot for the family. We do have a machine.

If the child is coming from a typical village environment then she will not have been getting a lot of expensive new clothes etc.

The chances are that you would be giving the child a better life, after all there must be a reason why your girlfriend wants to take her away from her home environment.

Other points to consider. How close are you to this child? Is she a regular visitor? It will be you looking after her if your gf doesn't get home until 9pm. Bear in mind how traumatic it will be for the toddler, ripping her away from the people that she loves. It will be very hard work for you, children are very demanding of your attention you know. If you are effectively a stranger to her it will be even more difficult

When she gets home from school, will you be able to bathe, powder and dress her? Will you be able to clean her bum when she has to do number 2? (Will she let you?)

Children can be very hard work and be very rewarding.

I would suggest that you have her come to stay with you for a holiday and see how it goes. Think about it as a trial period and be honest about whether you are prepared to commit yourself.

Personally, I don't think that it is possible to bring up a child with both parents working without the support of a family group.

[Sophon]

I think it is poignent that the Thai government requires retired people to show Bt65,000 a month to live on, which is substancially above what the OP earns. I doubt that calculation includes provision for kids either.

Not a very compelling argument since the same government only requires married people to have THB 40,000 a month to live on - which is less than what the OP has. And many of those married people would presumably have children as well.

Sophon

[samran]

I suppose the OP, at some stage, will probably want to move back 'home' when it becomes apparent earning 40K per month isn' the way to go if he's serious about fiancial stability for decent schooling, university and retirmement etc etc.

If he is going to bring this child into his home (a very honourable thing BTW), then he should look into the legalities for formally adopting the child so she will be able to come back with him and his wife as a dependent. The last thing you want is that the child not be able to return with you, after having formed a close bond.

[Goinghomesoon]

I've added two older children to my family at different times (one was aged 5, one aged 4). Others have pointed out the major costs but from experience I think if you can cover the basics (school, decent housing, basic clothing, healthy sustenance) you can probably scrape through to high school. But once kids get to about 12yo and want to try new things, participate in more [expensive] school activities and go places with their friends then I think you would find it extremely hard on your current salary. Just think of the food! When our eldest (a boy) became a teenager our monthly family food bill doubled almost overnight.

Loong mentioned some of the emotional aspects. Since the child is your GFs daughter (and presumably used to being around you both), you might not experience a lot of the extremes of behaviours. But 4 year olds are not very good at verbally expressing their emotions and can act-out a lot. PM me if you want and I can direct you to some good books on what to expect.

[scorecard]

You sound like a nice couple.

My assessment is that you'll make it work because you want to make it work and your determined to make it work.

My only fear, as already mentioned by others, is what happens later? Are either of the natural parents still alive? If so, are they likely to suddenly appear and reclaim the girl, or could other relatives claim her?

Please don't ignore all these points, please do the work to try to get the documents in order, don't set yourself up for possible heartbreak.

[aussiebebe]

The man and his girlfriend who want to look after their niece sound very kind and it seems they have good intentions. As I have two step-children through marriage to my Thai wife, I would be in a position to say that I think the man (the OP) is being overly-optimistic. However much of a loving bond exists, the man will experience a conflict of interests; mainly financial. In the end, looking after other people's children will hinder your ability to save for your own future and look after your own children.

The irony of this, is that given the man's young age (it seems from the post he doesn't have any kids of his own) the necessity of saving and the notion of 'giving your children the best' will only become apparent after he becomes a dad, or care-giver or whatever you want to call it. It totally ironic but it's only after he takes on his niece that he'll realize this and then it will be too late.

Of course you can't put a price on the pleasure and enjoyment of nurturing and raising children, whether they are yours or not, yet it's quite foolish to suppose that the man (OP) won't one day want his own family and there will be issues regarding culture, where to live, language spoken at home (if the niece goes to government school, forget any English-only rules), religion and bonding.

My Opinion; a 4-year-old would cost an average (including holidays, birthdays, food, clothing, schooling, transport etc) of 4 -7,000baht per month.

yes the government school will be free, and some uniform is free, however there will be books, sports uniforms, school trips (500baht per semester) and the main cost is transportation. Look carefully at that. It's true that health insurance can be obtained through school, however this won't cover sickness and just ferrying a child around in a car/taxi where once you may have taken the bus will skew the finances greatly.

My Advice: Look longer term; yes the niece could pay her way through University (borrow money from Government/pass test to get in free/work and study) but this is unlikely. Even longer term is that she may well bring her own children to you in years to come for money and support. Don't rule it out. All this while, the man (the OP) should be saving for his own children (granted he may not want any) and his retirement. Taking on this niece will be a lot of commitment and responsibility; it's a very brave and noble thing to do; however my considered reply to 'Costs of Adding A 4 Yr Old to your life?' is 'Too much'.

PS: I'm not a financial professional, but if the OP hasn't started saving into a pension, he should. Try saving 10-15% of net income per year and then see how much you've got left. Ahh! the perspectives shift a little don't they?

[chatette]

Hi Simon, Great to hear your plans to give your GF's niece a family. There truly won't be significant costs in adding her to your life, although you'll want to be sure she has health care cover beyond universal care. I'm not sure whether the social security scheme could cover her under your GF's name, assuming she becomes the legal guardian.

As for all the other comments on being able to afford this and that, life changes. Salaries tend to go up instead of down, unless you lose your job, and that's another matter altogether.

Good luck.

[Artabus]

As others have said, very admirable that you would want to help this 4 year old achieve a better life. Have contingency plans to deal with the legalities, and emotional attachment issues the child may have to other relatives, and I'm sure in that respect you will be fine.

But, if you think the relevant question to ask is about money... Please go and inform yourself on what is involved in looking after someone and bringing them to adulthood, equipping them with the tools, helping them achieve happiness. For sure the finance to support them is relevant, but I would suggest you do some other information gathering first on what is involved in parenting / step parenting.