Being Chased For A Uk Debt That I Never Had!

[simon43]

In the past week I have been contacted (on my Thai mobile phone) by a firm of UK debt collectors who claim that in 2004 I ran up a 6,000 GBP overdraft with Royal Bank of Scotland.

Since I left the UK in 2002 and have no UK bank account, assets or credit-cards etc, I am at a loss to understand why this company has contacted me. I have advised them of these details and have denied any liability or debt to RBS.

The company has clearly done some investigative work because they contacted my Thai ex-wife at her Phuket hotel to find out my mobile number and have located the name and address of my Thai employer. (although this information is easily to find if you Google my name etc).

Now the company has started calling my employer and claims that although the debt cannot be legally transferred to Thailand, they can ask their partner firm in Bangkok to 'chase me for payment'.

Let me reiterate. I have no knowledge of the reason for this debt and have lived continuously in Thailand since 2002.

Since I have recently started new employment, (after 5 years of 'hel_l' with my mad ex-wife), I am not at all happy about their actions.

Is there anything that I can do to stop their persistant contact? Of course I can get a new SIM for my mobile, but they can still hassle me at my employer's office.

They state that the whole matter can be settled if I offer some repayment, but I'm not about to offer to pay for a debt for which I deny liability.

I understand that defamation law is very strong in Thailand. But these guys are outside of Thailand...

Naturally, this is worrying me a great deal, just at the moment when I am moving on from my failed marriage.

Any suggestions or advice?

Simon

[jackdanielsesq]

RBS is in some serious financial trouble, not helped by scams like this. Gonna presume ya innocent and this is pure harassment.

Get with your boss and go over it very carefully - it might be ya ex who ran up the debt - that might be construed as fraud, aand ya dont wanna get fired. If RBS has sold the debt to some unscrupulous collectors, there's not much ya can do except get a bigger bat and go at them.

Ya might very well have a case against RBS though, for all kinds of damages.

But, honesty at work is tops. Get the agency to forward all docs to ya - all originals - not copies - work them hard - they will prolly quit.

It is more than likely simply a cute English scam.

BR>Jack

[Theyreallrubbish]

In the past week I have been contacted (on my Thai mobile phone) by a firm of UK debt collectors who claim that in 2004 I ran up a 6,000 GBP overdraft with Royal Bank of Scotland.

Since I left the UK in 2002 and have no UK bank account, assets or credit-cards etc, I am at a loss to understand why this company has contacted me. I have advised them of these details and have denied any liability or debt to RBS.

The company has clearly done some investigative work because they contacted my Thai ex-wife at her Phuket hotel to find out my mobile number and have located the name and address of my Thai employer. (although this information is easily to find if you Google my name etc).

Now the company has started calling my employer and claims that although the debt cannot be legally transferred to Thailand, they can ask their partner firm in Bangkok to 'chase me for payment'.

Let me reiterate. I have no knowledge of the reason for this debt and have lived continuously in Thailand since 2002.

Since I have recently started new employment, (after 5 years of 'hel_l' with my mad ex-wife), I am not at all happy about their actions.

Is there anything that I can do to stop their persistant contact? Of course I can get a new SIM for my mobile, but they can still hassle me at my employer's office.

They state that the whole matter can be settled if I offer some repayment, but I'm not about to offer to pay for a debt for which I deny liability.

I understand that defamation law is very strong in Thailand. But these guys are outside of Thailand...

Naturally, this is worrying me a great deal, just at the moment when I am moving on from my failed marriage.

Any suggestions or advice?

Simon

Ask them for documented evidence of the debt and the details of their regulator.

Sounds like a scam to me to try and get expats to pay for a quiet life and since expats are typically affluent and may not be able to recall all their banking details on several continents. A few tens of pounds in phone calls and if 1 in ten pay up anywhere between 500 and 4000 pounds, and it can be very profitable scam.

[isanb]

If you have advised them of these details and have denied any liability or debt to RBS, why they don't believe You ?

did you send them copies of your visa as evidence ?

strange case ?

[Mossfinn]

They often chase people after following misleading or incorrect information.

Link

[Datsun240Z]

if I offer some repayment

It's a money scam.

[Spartacus_m]

I agree with the above

Ask them to send all the documentary evidence to your employers address (as they already know where you work) and you will then consider their evidence and reply back to them.

All this info about the sister company in BKK is rubbish. No can do. If you have a debt in the UK for instance witha UK company, they cannot transfer the debt to another subsiduary comapany for whatever reason. No can do. They can't sell it or anything. They can chase you around the world but it is still a UK debt.

It does sound liek a scam and if you are ademant that this is not your dedt you have nothing to worry about. Sleep well at night.

It may well be a case of identity fraud. Have you thought about that?

Anyway, the first thing you need to tell them to do is send all the evidence to you so your Thai UK lawyer can consider it and respond formally and tell them that you will be claiming costs through the civil courts for any costs incurred when you are proven correct.

They cannot chase you for a debt you have not created.

That is the UK law which they are following, not Thai law, spanish Law etc. - if it is a UK debt they must obide by UK law. Maybe seek advice via phone from Citizens advice in the UK.

Scammer everywhere these days.

Scum.

[imaneggspurt]

In the past week I have been contacted (on my Thai mobile phone) by a firm of UK debt collectors who claim that in 2004 I ran up a 6,000 GBP overdraft with Royal Bank of Scotland.

Since I left the UK in 2002 and have no UK bank account, assets or credit-cards etc, I am at a loss to understand why this company has contacted me. I have advised them of these details and have denied any liability or debt to RBS.

The company has clearly done some investigative work because they contacted my Thai ex-wife at her Phuket hotel to find out my mobile number and have located the name and address of my Thai employer. (although this information is easily to find if you Google my name etc).

Now the company has started calling my employer and claims that although the debt cannot be legally transferred to Thailand, they can ask their partner firm in Bangkok to 'chase me for payment'.

Let me reiterate. I have no knowledge of the reason for this debt and have lived continuously in Thailand since 2002.

Since I have recently started new employment, (after 5 years of 'hel_l' with my mad ex-wife), I am not at all happy about their actions.

Is there anything that I can do to stop their persistant contact? Of course I can get a new SIM for my mobile, but they can still hassle me at my employer's office.

They state that the whole matter can be settled if I offer some repayment, but I'm not about to offer to pay for a debt for which I deny liability.

I understand that defamation law is very strong in Thailand. But these guys are outside of Thailand...

Naturally, this is worrying me a great deal, just at the moment when I am moving on from my failed marriage.

Any suggestions or advice?

Simon

"transferred to Thailand, they can ask their partner firm in Bangkok to 'chase me for payment'.", This is absolute rubbish, NO ONE will have jurisdiction to collect off you here for a uk debt, whether its yours or not, tell em to get stuffed !,

[citizen33]

They often chase people after following misleading or incorrect information.

Link

This seems to be becoming an increasingly common problem in the UK, perhaps because of the increasing level of indebtedness but also because of the aggressive stance of some companies. Apart from conventional debt collection agencies there are an increasing number of debt recovery companies, which buy up debt cheaply from companies like RBS and then try to trace debtors, often using dubious means. I was recently targetted by one such firm in respect of a Barclays Bank debt, and ironically it was Barclays (with whom I hold an account in good order) who were able to get me off the hook by confirming to this company that I was not the debtor they sought. One Scandinavian firm (with bases in Bromley and Chester), whom I had better not name, seems to be a serial offender and was criticized in Parliament about 2 years ago following the suicide of Mrs Beryl Brazier, an elderly lady who they pursued for a debt that was not hers.

The UK regulator for such bodies is the Office of Fair Trading. On the OFT website you will find their debt collection guidance, and may want to read this to see if you have a basis for complaint. It is common to target people on the basis of a rough name match with persons at addresses that had no link to the original debt, and this is discussed in the guidance. What is rather disappointing, however, is the OFT's poor record of punishing these companies (despite an apparent instruction by the Minister to do so following the Brazier case), and the fact that they have no remit to help with individual cases. Here you need to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service and/or Trading Standards. However you will need to go through an elaborate process of getting basic information, exchanging letters, and jumping through all the right hoops before your complaint will be accepted (for instance you must complain first to the debt recovery company and await their final response). You can take two steps in the interim by (a) asking for a copy of the credit agreement involved (which they should not let you have if they are not sure of your identity) and (b ) make a subject access request under the Data Protection Act to see what information the company holds on you. The fee for the first is £1 and for the second £10. If you do a web search on the name of the company you will find discussions in consumer forums which will guide you and furnish you with template letters. I believe (though I am not absolutely certain) that a complaint to the FOS has the virtue that the company will have to pay a standard case fee of about £400, which you won't get but will hopefully discourage capricious fishing expeditions in the long run. If you suspect that your personal data were processed inappropriately to connect you with the debt, you can also complain to the Information Commissioner. In my own case I found that the debt had absolutely no connection to me and indeed was old 'statute-barred' debt, which couldn't have been recovered legally if a debtor declined to pay. I have a letter of apology but no finanical recompense for my time and trouble and I am trying to right this via the FOS.

Edited June 26, 2009 by citizen33

[imaneggspurt]

Ignore them and tell your boss if they call to speak thai only to them, they will soon get fed up with wasting money on long distance calls if they are ignored,,and bear in mind its not RBS chasing you but some lowfife that bought the debt off them for a pittance,.that they have asked for a short settlement is not uncommon, they have probably paid 2p in the pound for the debt,and will take anything over that, but as this is not your debt, tell em to do one !

[joskydive]

These debt collection agencies are very persistant and do very little to check that they have the right person.

The best thing you can do is demand all copies of this debt you are supposed to have to be mailed to you. (They are not allowed, by law, to send out copies unless they have confirmed proof that you are the real debtor).

You can also demand and confirm in writing that they stop harrassing you and your place of employment for a debt that has not been incurred by you. Should they persist, you are fully prepared to take this matter to the courts and sue them for Defamation. Make sure when you send them this mail that it is sent by Recorded Delivery so that you can confirm that they have recieved it.

Unfortunately, if you just ignore them you could find that your credit record is in the toilet.

[davejonesbkk]

Yeah hearing about more and more of these companies in the UK, thing is they are legit companies and not actually 'scamming' you but are just using bullying techniques to try and intimidate you into paying. Does anyone remember the thread about that Uk law firm that was sending letters out to people saying they had to pay a 500 gbp fine for downloading pirated video games via torrents? Many old people who dont know much about the web were frightened by all the legal jargon and ended up paying...this is exactly what they were counting on.

I would LOVE it if one of these companies tried to do this with me...I would ***k with them so hard!

[simon43]

I like the suggestion to give them my Thai lawyer's contact details and ask them to send all relevant papers to him. If they seriously believe that I owe them money, then they will presumably forward the relevant information and I can act upon this. If not, then I can draw my own conclusions.

Luckily, the Thai company that employs me is not the slightest bit interested in any debts (or not) that I might have, and will probably tell this 'gentleman' to <deleted> off if he tries calling again.

Thanks for the good advice.

Simon

[duceahearts]

sorry simon can't help, only here to say I prefered your other avatar.

[mommysboy]

Well if you are innocent as claimed, why not just talk to them, sign a disclaimer to the debt and be done with it.

But sounds like the missus ran up a debt to me in your name!

Either way, you could just tell them to fXXX right off, as it's not a criminal offence, and there is nothing they can do really.

Play it straight in future may be the best idea.

[MrHammer]

Here's the deal..

Collectors like these guys are completely without morals. Its grey area legal at best. I once got a claim for an electric bill for 2 years for the apartment I had once lived in, but not in that period. Another renter had been living there.

This was all easy to prove, but they persisted and wanted "some repayment" like with you.

My friend and I then drove to their offices and asked to talk to the boss but they wouldnt let us in. Btw, they had 3 companies using the same address, a telltale sign of a shady operation. We finally got the name of the boss and called him to let him know that we would like to talk with him and that we would be happy to meet him at his home address.

The claim was dropped VERY fast.

I think you need to turn the tables and attack. These guys count on most people not wanting to pick a fight. Give a bit of resistance and they back off.

[simon43]

Duceahearts - the avatar is a Phoenix rising from the ashes, which is what I feel like after 'escaping' from my mad ex after 5 years of hel_l A stint in the Bangkok Hilton would have been more preferable!

Simon

[mommysboy]

Here's the deal..

Collectors like these guys are completely without morals. Its grey area legal at best. I once got a claim for an electric bill for 2 years for the apartment I had once lived in, but not in that period. Another renter had been living there.

This was all easy to prove, but they persisted and wanted "some repayment" like with you.

My friend and I then drove to their offices and asked to talk to the boss but they wouldnt let us in. Btw, they had 3 companies using the same address, a telltale sign of a shady operation. We finally got the name of the boss and called him to let him know that we would like to talk with him and that we would be happy to meet him at his home address.

The claim was dropped VERY fast.

I think you need to turn the tables and attack. These guys count on most people not wanting to pick a fight. Give a bit of resistance and they back off.

That's right. These guys are chancers. The debt has usually been written off and they just trawl through on a commission basis. They usually threaten court action in letters but believe me it's a dead debt, and the onlt time these guys get near a court is when they themselves are up before the judge. The people involved are just a bunch of amoral cokeheads and it's surprisingly easy to face them down.

[pattaya_girl]

Sounds like it may be someone else who has incurred these debts in your name and in your absence.

You could offer them 50p a week until it is paid off, that will shut them up.

They won't leave you alone until you sort it out and get to the bottom of it.

Good luck.

[citizen33]

Sounds like it may be someone else who has incurred these debts in your name and in your absence.

You could offer them 50p a week until it is paid off, that will shut them up.

They won't leave you alone until you sort it out and get to the bottom of it.

Good luck.

Sorry but if this really is not the OP's debt, it is a very bad idea to agree to make even nominal payments. This will establish his liability, and if this were old statute-barred debt, making a payment would mean that a claim for the balance of the debt in the courts might then succeed. My post above was based on a real recent experience under the UK rules. The risk if the OP does nothing, as somebody else says, is that the debt recovery company will associate the debt with his name in credit reference agency records and damage his future ability to get credit. There is also the (remote) possibiliity that they might seek to get a County Court judgement against him in his absence. To avoid this he should write asking for a copy of the credit agreement, as is his right under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Probably the company will not send him the agreement because they are not sure the OP is the debtor and would fall foul of the Data Protection Act if they disclose somebody else's personal information to him. However, because they cannot provide him with the agreement, the UK legislation stops them from taking him to court or doing anything else to recover the money until they can show he is the person involved.

I've re-edited part of the letter I used myself at this stage below (it is loosely based on many template letters you will find on consumer forums):

Sir,

THIS LETTER CONTAINS A REQUEST FOR A COPY OF A REGULATED AGREEMENT MADE UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

Following our recent telephone conversations and your unwillingness to take account of the information provided showing that I am not responsible for the debt you are seeking to recover, I am concerned that [name of company] is not acting in good faith. Accordingly, I must now ask you to send me a true copy of the credit agreement with RBS referred to in your communications.

The information you have provided does not indicate whether the alleged debt relates to an agreement for fixed-sum credit or an agreement for running-account credit, as defined in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (hereafter CCA 1974). Whether the credit agreement referred to above is covered by section 77 (1) or section 78 (1) of the CCA 1974, you are required to provide me with a copy of an agreement to which I am a party following my request and payment of the statutory fee. The CCA 1974 also requires you to provide me with a statement of account, and any further information specified under sections 77(1) a, b and c or 78(1) a, b and c, dependent on the type of agreement involved. Since you are a Debt Recovery Agency, I request that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974. [edit: if you are clear this is an overdraft, you can edit this so that you refer to running account credit and s78)

I enclose a £1 (one pound) postal order in payment of the fee required under the CCA 1974. It has been reported that companies associated with (name of company) have in the past falsely claimed that payments of statutory fees were payments made against a debt. Please take note that, in plain terms, I do not acknowledge responsibility for the debt associated with this account, that the payment enclosed herewith is offered only as payment of the statutory fee under the CCA 1974, and that if you misrepresent the statutory fee payment as one made for another purpose further action will be taken.

I understand that a copy of any credit agreement to which I was a party should be supplied to me within 12 working days from the date of receipt of this letter. Sections 77(4) and 78(6) of the CCA 1974, provide that creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement made under ss. 77(1) or 78(1).

To summarize the content of this letter: I do not acknowledge the debt associated with the account you have referred to and therefore require you to substantiate your allegation that I am the debtor by providing the following documentation: (a). true copy of original credit agreement; (b ) a statement of account; (c ) a copy of the executed deed of assignment from RBS to ______; and (d) any other relevant information or documents specified in sections 77(1) a, b or c, or 78(1) a, b or c of the CCA 1974 (dependent on the type of agreement concerned).

I shall expect you to comply with this request within the statutory time period.

------

As stated, you need to send the letter by recorded delivery. Some experts recommend that you print your name rather than signing, but I signed my letter. I can understand why some people on this thread believe there is no smoke without fire, but if you've had first hand experience you will learn that these are not reputable companies. They want to maximise their return by hitting the maximum number of potential debtors at minimum cost. In effect they are transferring the search costs to the people they target and putting the onus of establishing innocence on them.

Edited June 26, 2009 by citizen33

[endure]

Ask your questions here. It's a forum full of people with just the experience you need to tap into.

[Norrad]

I got almost the same call, a few days ago about a debt that I supposedly owed a bank that I had never had an account with in my life. I told them I have been living in Thailand for over 3 years and only been home once on holiday for 2 weeks. They told me I must get a police report from the Royal Thai Police to certify that fact and fax it to them or else I must pay nearly $3000 in the next 2 days. I've also been a little bit stressed about it, because the police haven't been very helpful when trying to get the report.

[ignis]

There was a report a couple of years ago in a UK Newpaper about the amount of debt run up by so say people that that did not live in the UK anymore, the gist of it was when people left the UK, scam merchants got a credit card in your name and ran up some times Hugh debts.. Most of the people scammed were ex house owners, somehow these people got all the person details to use to get cars/loans/credit cards etc...

Myself, my Father had a number of visits for a 55,000 GBP debt I had run up in 2005 in London !!! I have not left Thailand since 2003, last time I visited London was 1998, I have never had any account/Loan/Credit card with the said Bank.

How they found my Father I have no idea, he was in his 80's he was ending his days in a home in Essex having moved there in 2000 from Gloucestershire. He did not give my address or phone number, [not sure he even had my address as I used to phone him often] he died in Jan 2008

[sassienie]

In the past week I have been contacted (on my Thai mobile phone) by a firm of UK debt collectors who claim that in 2004 I ran up a 6,000 GBP overdraft with Royal Bank of Scotland.

Since I left the UK in 2002 and have no UK bank account, assets or credit-cards etc, I am at a loss to understand why this company has contacted me. I have advised them of these details and have denied any liability or debt to RBS.

The company has clearly done some investigative work because they contacted my Thai ex-wife at her Phuket hotel to find out my mobile number and have located the name and address of my Thai employer. (although this information is easily to find if you Google my name etc).

Now the company has started calling my employer and claims that although the debt cannot be legally transferred to Thailand, they can ask their partner firm in Bangkok to 'chase me for payment'.

Let me reiterate. I have no knowledge of the reason for this debt and have lived continuously in Thailand since 2002.

Since I have recently started new employment, (after 5 years of 'hel_l' with my mad ex-wife), I am not at all happy about their actions.

Is there anything that I can do to stop their persistant contact? Of course I can get a new SIM for my mobile, but they can still hassle me at my employer's office.

They state that the whole matter can be settled if I offer some repayment, but I'm not about to offer to pay for a debt for which I deny liability.

I understand that defamation law is very strong in Thailand. But these guys are outside of Thailand...

Naturally, this is worrying me a great deal, just at the moment when I am moving on from my failed marriage.

Any suggestions or advice?

Simon

This is what you do:

In Thailand, open a post box at your nearest local post office.

Go on line and Google in UK harassment Act. Look up the Act and note it.

Contract the debt collector, in writing only quoting your PO Box address. DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY OTHER CONTACT DETAILS FOR YOURSELF OR ANY THIRD PARTIES.

In your letter, quote the harassment Act.

Request that the debt collection company send you details of the debt owed and when the alleged monies was borrowed or taken from the bank.

Insist that all future communications between you and the debt collectors are in writing only and all correspondences to be addressed to your post office box address and state that contacting your employer or anyone else contravenes the harassment ACT.

If they contact you again by phone or anyway other than in writing, refuse to speak to them and state, to be in writing only. This is because if they abuse you by phone, you have no evidence.

Another point: if the company cannot grab the debt within 6 years, by UK law it is written off.

Edited June 27, 2009 by sassienie

[TheLaughingMan]

Sounds like it may be someone else who has incurred these debts in your name and in your absence.

You could offer them 50p a week until it is paid off, that will shut them up.

They won't leave you alone until you sort it out and get to the bottom of it.

Good luck.

Why for the love of God would anyone suggest paying anything back for a debt that doesnt belong to them? If you truly feel this way, may I interest you in some of my debts? I am sure they would be happy with whatever minimum payment you can handle. Thanks alot.

[harrry]

Sounds like it may be someone else who has incurred these debts in your name and in your absence.

You could offer them 50p a week until it is paid off, that will shut them up.

They won't leave you alone until you sort it out and get to the bottom of it.

Good luck.

I wouldnt hire you as an accountant. By paying anything he is admitting liablility for the debt and that alleged debt can be collected even after the Statute of Limitations has been exceeded for that debt

[greenwood01]

OP, in most countries. After 6 years your debt is erased. They will still try to get it back from you but they should not. You could even open an account with them in 6years and put as much money in it, they could never touch it.

So just let them harass you, doesnt matter if you are right or wrong. Collecting agencies are a waste of time, most people who never intended to pay, never pay. You could always buy back 5% of your debt in 6months, all they care about is to get rid of it even if its at a loss(better to get 5% back than nothing?) works everytime if u call them right on due date.

And don't worry, no way theres a uk collecting agency that has a 'partner' firm in thailand.. Seems like a dumb idea to even open that kind of business in this country.

[Dave the Dude]

Hi

As an ex NatWest/RBS Manager, I would suggest you follow the actions described by sassienie.

Dave

Edited June 27, 2009 by Dave the Dude

[neverdie]

Duceahearts - the avatar is a Phoenix rising from the ashes, which is what I feel like after 'escaping' from my mad ex after 5 years of hel_l A stint in the Bangkok Hilton would have been more preferable!

Simon

Sounds like you might be on your way to the Hilton next.

If you know ur in the right simon, let it be like water of a ducks back, tell them to put up the documentry evidence or SHUT UP!

[Datsun240Z]

Just tell em to go fuc_k themselves, that's it.