george Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 3 Thai women convicted for procuring women for prostitution in South Africa BANGKOK: -- The Ratchadapisek Criminal Court Tuesday sentenced three Thai women - each guilty of procuring two Thai women for prostitution in South Africa - to a seven-and-a-half-year jail term and ordered them to pay Bt300,000 in compensation to the victims. The lawsuit said the defendants, Jiraporn Butanai, 32, Bangon Sibbold, 35, and Wanpen Phromthat, 32, convinced Ying and Noi (not their real names) that working in a beer bar in South Africa would yield lucrative incomes and asked the pair to pay them Bt30,000 for expenses to arrange a trip to South Africa. On arrival in the African country, the three women detained Ying and Noi and forced them to provide sexual services on an average of four customers per day. The two women eventually escaped and went for help at the Thai Embassy. This led to the arrest of Jiraporn in Chon Buri and the arrest of the other two defendants in Rayong, the lawsuit stated. -- The Nation 2009-06-30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny747 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 great news of these kind! one of my loyal staff, recently resigned from our company and went to NORWAY to help in her uncle Thai restaurant. she barely know that uncle as he is been living there for 20 years. She was one of our best staff and i really wanted her to stay. i don't know what future she would make there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh4 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 great news of these kind! one of my loyal staff, recently resigned from our company and went to NORWAY to help in her uncle Thai restaurant. she barely know that uncle as he is been living there for 20 years. She was one of our best staff and i really wanted her to stay. i don't know what future she would make there. I guess you could've given her a raise...:-) Such tales are not uncommon but then there are many thai restaurants in the US/Europe owned by thais who are looking for help from back home to work at cooks/waiters/waitresses. Those jobs are long hours and the pay maybe less than reasonable compared to payscales in those countries but there's no prostitution involved. It's just an opportunity to change their lives (not necesarily for the better) and girls/guys from here choose it as an exit from their lives in Thailand. As long as these restaurant owners provide legal immigration status to these applicants there's little wrong with the whole arrangement really. Hopefully your ex staff is indeed headed for a real restaurant with decent pay and living conditions. It would've been an idea to get her contact details in Norway just to keep in touch so you could always offer her her old job back in case she wasn't happy in Norway ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocopops Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 the three women detained Ying and Noi and forced them to provide sexual services on an average of four customers per day Seems they got off somewhat lightly if the above is what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaughingMan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 To me it is 10 times worse when a woman victimises another woman in this way instead of a man doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 in general I am not really impressed with any embassy operating abroad, not with Western Embassies and not with Thai embassies. Their normal point of view is one of "som nam naa" and your own problem. Chapeau therefore that this embassy has reacted in a decent and great manner. Human trafficking should be stopped at all cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smylz Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 there is a nasty lady around sukumvit area doing the same thing for young girls and katoeys. my friend was approached and she works in an internet cafe - seems anyone is worth at least tempting with the carrot. i dont know this woman myself, but my friend tells me she is well known for her "promises" of a better life in UK. But not new news for any country of the world, people smuggling and kidnappings for sex trade is just awful. could anyone even guesstimate this industries revenue? it must challenge the drug/weapons/terrorism trade for top rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdream Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 To me it is 10 times worse when a woman victimises another woman in this way instead of a man doing it. Why??? It is a crime w/o discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitfield Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 the three women detained Ying and Noi and forced them to provide sexual services on an average of four customers per day Seems they got off somewhat lightly if the above is what happened. You're right about that. My ex got 8 years for stealing my ATM card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ophelia Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 "To me it is 10 times worse when a woman victimises another woman in this way instead of a man doing it. " TheLaughingMan... what? 10 time worse for a woman to commit this crime than it is for a man? You have to be kidding. How about the fact that these types of crimes are committed by men well over 10 times more often than the same crime committed by women. Why is it that men find women committing crimes so much more offensive than if one of their 'brothers' do? A man beats his wife to death, and that's "domestic violence", a woman retaliates against her abuser, and she's a murderer.... please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPIKECM Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 in general I am not really impressed with any embassy operating abroad, not with Western Embassies and not with Thai embassies. Their normal point of view is one of "som nam naa" and your own problem. Chapeau therefore that this embassy has reacted in a decent and great manner. Human trafficking should be stopped at all cost. where does human trafficking begin and end? Should young girls in Shan State in Burma not be allowed a helping hand (paid for, of course) to make it across the border into Thailand? I know many stories of girls ending up in Thailand to a far better life than they would have otherwise have known in Burma. Most of the millions of Burmese living in Thailand would never be here without "human trafficking". So why stop it at all costs? In what capacity are you to stop any other human being's choice to do what they see as an improvement to their lot? Before you want to stop something at all cost you first have to define what "human trafficking" is. I would argue that many human traffickers do a better job at solving world poverty than any fat UN bureaucrat. Just what have they ever done for the Burmese people? Furthermore, I don't believe that there are many Thai girls so gullible as to believe that in such circumstances, they were heading to supply anything other than sexual services. Thais are a lot less stupid than many farangs give them credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearhunt Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 yeh, for some girls escaping from highly dangerous situations and poverty, being human trafficked and working as a prostitute is a great opportunity for them to live a life with food, a place to live, and no constant threat to their life. the root of all these problems of course is poverty, and take away the profit part of human sex trade and we will be living in near utopia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeroentak Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The 2 girls were asked to work in a bar beer in South Africa and make good money. So they were not asked to work in a restaurant. We all know that girls who work in a bar beer are also entertaining customers in different ways outside the bar. Maybe the two girls were very naieve or maybe they knew but they dnt like the job after all. I am not so sure if these girls are 100% innocent. Many thai girls are providing all kind of services abroad in every country. Most of them because they like the money. Their foreign husband are objecting, because they dnt like them to do these kind of jobs. If the husband makes a fight than the thai girl will leave and look for foreigner she can stay with and will not give her a hard time to make money in this kind of manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuggzzz Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I also think that they got off lightly, do they get extra if they, do not/cannot afford to, pay the compensation..?? Like all young people, the opportunity to travel/emigrate to get a better life is a big draw, however, young people unfortunately have fallen foul of setups or at worst murdered. I'm pleased these two were able to get away and see the perpetrators get jailed. Foreign Embassies do not have much power in any Country, other than to assist there countrymen with basics. They do not give money, more advice and guidance and act as a go between with their family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0om4gloom Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I am not so sure if these girls are 100% innocent. Are you kidding ? These girls would have been manipulated for someone else's profit, would have been very young, totally naive and not had a clue about what was to happen to them. How the hel_l do you think trafficers operate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP25 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 How the hel_l do you think trafficers operate ? By taking prostitutes from the tens of thousands working willingly in Pattaya, Nana, and Soi Cowboy, many of whom are very eager to go abroad. Of course, when they get caught... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocopops Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Maybe if "detained and forced" were rephrased as "kidnapped and gangraped" some posters would understand the point a little better? They likely thought they were agreeing to work in a Thai style beer bar. And ended up as sex-slaves without even the freedom to come and go as they wished. Nothing that either girl may or may not have done in the past to earn money makes that Ok. The mysogyny exhibited by some of the fuc_kwits in this forum is astonishing. Edited June 30, 2009 by cocopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeroentak Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I am not so sure if these girls are 100% innocent. Are you kidding ? These girls would have been manipulated for someone else's profit, would have been very young, totally naive and not had a clue about what was to happen to them. How the hel_l do you think trafficers operate ? How you know that they were so young. I did not see there ages. Maybe they were already working in a bar beer in Soi Cowboy or Nana complex or Pattaya. I have seen many thai girls in almost every country in the world, doing these same kind of job as they were doing when they were still working in these places. You can take the girl out the bar but you can not take the bar out of the girl. That is why many thai girlfriends will still work some kind of prostitution when they are abroad. In many cases their boyfriends or husband are aware of it and not happy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skajd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 surely these kind of nasty crimes are common knowledge among thais? surely it's a case of "the bogieman" or "the big bad wolf"? even in rural communities there must be stories about this handed down from generation to generation. its a nasty crime thats always been going on. i can't believe a thai girl, no matter how naive would not have an inkling that there was a risk of this happening. i find it impossible to believe i think these girls did have an idea that they could very well be used as sex pawns but something went bad for them so they did a runner I am not so sure if these girls are 100% innocent. Are you kidding ? These girls would have been manipulated for someone else's profit, would have been very young, totally naive and not had a clue about what was to happen to them. How the hel_l do you think trafficers operate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunholidaysun1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Its a big business around the world and slowly being dealt with , however its a busy business within Thailand and especially from here in the North. Many come from Myanmar and China , they are paid normally a lump sum upfront to give to family members and then meet the contact in Thailand. Then someone is paid to transport them to where the job maybe , normally BKK . Conections on route are aware they are coming and what time they will be arriving at the Police Checkpoints. Money is passed and they are free to continue on the journey. Once in BKK , the job of housekeeper turns out to be something different but not in all cases. Some are paid 30,000 bht upfront , so when they come into Thailand to work the first part of what work they do is to repay the 30,000 bht . When being paid only 3,000 bht per month working in a restaurant it takes 1 year of no wages to pay back what they owe before making any money for themselves. This is something happening regularly but how can it be stopped. Poverty is the biggest problem , as without the poverty they wouldnt do it . I have had some people working for me from the Shan State , they are here already and need work and if I am in need of a house keeper or gardener , I try to help these people. They get a good salary , nice place to live and the same food as I eat . Also if they dont want to take their days off , they can save them up and take 2 weeks holiday at a time. I also get papers for them to work for me legally. Some restaurants will employ those from Myanmar and get papers from Immigration to make the contract legal .The Shan workers are then made to work in some cases 18 hours a day , get fed poor quality food, eg, what needs to be got rid of from the restaurant and sleep in bad conditions within the building where they work. Time off , only for sleep. Salary for 1 months work - less that 3,000 bht for the month. Thai's are exploiting the poor as well as everyone else who can make money off of their backs.. Sad but True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volatilekoala Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Good. Those women should be in jail a lot longer in my opinion. How these women could do such a horrible thing is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skajd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Its a big business around the world and slowly being dealt with , however its a busy business within Thailand and especially from here in the North. Many come from Myanmar and China , they are paid normally a lump sum upfront to give to family members and then meet the contact in Thailand. Then someone is paid to transport them to where the job maybe , normally BKK . Conections on route are aware they are coming and what time they will be arriving at the Police Checkpoints. Money is passed and they are free to continue on the journey. Once in BKK , the job of housekeeper turns out to be something different but not in all cases. Some are paid 30,000 bht upfront , so when they come into Thailand to work the first part of what work they do is to repay the 30,000 bht . When being paid only 3,000 bht per month working in a restaurant it takes 1 year of no wages to pay back what they owe before making any money for themselves.This is something happening regularly but how can it be stopped. Poverty is the biggest problem , as without the poverty they wouldnt do it . I have had some people working for me from the Shan State , they are here already and need work and if I am in need of a house keeper or gardener , I try to help these people. They get a good salary , nice place to live and the same food as I eat . Also if they dont want to take their days off , they can save them up and take 2 weeks holiday at a time. I also get papers for them to work for me legally. Some restaurants will employ those from Myanmar and get papers from Immigration to make the contract legal .The Shan workers are then made to work in some cases 18 hours a day , get fed poor quality food, eg, what needs to be got rid of from the restaurant and sleep in bad conditions within the building where they work. Time off , only for sleep. Salary for 1 months work - less that 3,000 bht for the month. Thai's are exploiting the poor as well as everyone else who can make money off of their backs.. Sad but True. it's a case of out of the frying pan into the fire for them. they have a "dick whittington" attitude (i just thought of a really appropriate puss in boots joke, but its not a laughing matter so i refrained) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunholidaysun1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I also wanted to reply to someone elses comment about the girls knowing full well what they are getting into. It is possible that some of those offered fantastic salaries working abroad are unaware of what is install for them once they get there. Here in Thailand its different. No one really speaks about the sex trade within the Thai community. I would think that nearly every village , someone at sometime has worked in the trade. Mothers before their daughters etc, but many girls go to work because their sister or friend is doing it and can get them the job. They see what there peers are getting out of it , WEALTH !! In my village I know of some OLD women who used to ply the trade and some of the villagers daughters in the trade now , do what has been done for along time, supplying money to the family back home. Brick houses are going up everywhere , trucks and cars being bought, life styles improving greatly with the money being sent back from the earnings that without the trade they really would be far poorer. Trafficing is being reported in the press and on the Thai news on TV , yet how are they going to stop the trade of prostitution within Thailand - Never. There was at one point a reported 55,000 girls working in the trade in Pattaya alone. Every major city has bars and whorehouses / some massage parlours , even small villages can even have the Not so hush hush karaoki bars , everyone knows what goes on. Then down to the lower levels of Thai culture to have a mia noi or Gik , the ladies on the side for the Thai males plesure , but they also have to Pay. Without the sex trade here , what would happen to all the sex trade workers and families right throughout Thailand ? What would the government do with all the loss of revenue brought in from the travellers who spend millions of dollars a year here. Its nieive to think that it will ever be stopped but every now and again reports about trafficing will hit the news or a few sex workers and their customers have been caught and arrested, that way it looks like the government / police are doing something about it, but actually doing NOTHING !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaughingMan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It frightens me that some people are posting the attitude that if they were hookers before than "whats the problem?" ENSLAVEMENT is nothing even close to the lifestyle a Pattaya bar girl lives, she has complete freedom to do as she pleases, she can not work if she chooses, she can change jobs if she chooses, she can take whatever client she wants or not take one if she doesnt want. A SLAVE can only be raped several times a day with no choices or freedom. Makes me sick at the lack of compassion simply because they think the girls might have been prostitutes. Ophelia, are you serious? It's worse when a woman enslaves another woman for sexual purposes and basicaly has her raped because a woman should know better and have the requisite compassion for another womans pain and terror. After all who better to understand a womans plight than another woman? So a woman that does this knowing full well what it must be like to be powerless to stop your enslavement is a despicable creature. Men we expect to do evil deeds against women and it is neither overly shocking or new when they do, but we expect women to look out for eachother, not do this to eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunholidaysun1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It frightens me that some people are posting the attitude that if they were hookers before than "whats the problem?" ENSLAVEMENT is nothing even close to the lifestyle a Pattaya bar girl lives, she has complete freedom to do as she pleases, she can not work if she chooses, she can change jobs if she chooses, she can take whatever client she wants or not take one if she doesnt want. A SLAVE can only be raped several times a day with no choices or freedom. Makes me sick at the lack of compassion simply because they think the girls might have been prostitutes. Being transported - trafficed , is not only for those who dont know what they are getting into . Those who are enslaved and put into prostitution through trafficing is severe, and every effort should be put in place to stop it and those responsible, dealt with as being reported today . The women trade workers here have not only the pressure of family and peers keeping them in the job but also drug abuse and fear of not getting their quota of customers for the place that employs them, but more common within the younger girls are the Thai boyfriends who live off their girlfriends earnings and beat the crap out of them if they dont come up with the money when they want some. . Those who work here in Thailand do have more of a say in what they are doing , personal choice . Those trafficed and forced into slave labour and prostitution have no say at all. Help is what is needed from every government in the world to really crack down and stop the tradeing of people. But as I said earlier , nothing will change here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitrapaap Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 "To me it is 10 times worse when a woman victimises another woman in this way instead of a man doing it. "TheLaughingMan... what? 10 time worse for a woman to commit this crime than it is for a man? You have to be kidding. How about the fact that these types of crimes are committed by men well over 10 times more often than the same crime committed by women. Why is it that men find women committing crimes so much more offensive than if one of their 'brothers' do? A man beats his wife to death, and that's "domestic violence", a woman retaliates against her abuser, and she's a murderer.... please. I think what he wanted to say is that a women should better be able to understand what she is doing to these women than a man. Therefore it is indeed amazing that even women get into this kind of activity. For me, I'm always glad to see that finally women are not any better than man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodilexp Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Based on the snippet, it's hard to determine exactly what happened. The girls voluntarily went there knowing they'd be bargirls, i.e. prostitutes of some sort. What happened later can range anywhere from a personal quarrel, via girls not liking the country, the business model or the clients they encountered, all the way to being held in chains against their will. The expenses were hardly extortionate, 30.000 baht for visa + ticket is a decent deal. Not much profit for the agent, unless they also got a kickback on delivery. Four customers a day is not easy work, but hardly atypical for a prostitute in the west (or in some sois of Pattaya for that matter). Age of the girls is not mentioned -- they are not necessarily young, and certainly not underage (I doubt the article would omit that). Given that the court did give the perpetrators 7+ years, I'd say it's something more sinister (if Thai court is to be trusted), but it's impossible to tell. Edited June 30, 2009 by crocodilexp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardy1943 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 in general I am not really impressed with any embassy operating abroad, not with Western Embassies and not with Thai embassies. Their normal point of view is one of "som nam naa" and your own problem. Chapeau therefore that this embassy has reacted in a decent and great manner. Human trafficking should be stopped at all cost. I am amazed also, they usually do not want to be bothered. Hats off to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdanielsesq Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Another great way to spread HIV/AIDS throughout the world. 80% of SA is HIV positive. BR>Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HagenvonTronje Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Another great way to spread HIV/AIDS throughout the world. 80% of SA is HIV positive. BR>Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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