Lese Majeste Complaint Filed Against The Foreign Correspondents Club Of Thailand

[TAWP]

Now you are only being dishonest. And UK hdoesn't have a 'first amendment' protecting free speech and has never really been a free nation. Hence why it wasn't used as an example.

You telling why I didn't use the UK as an example? I singled out the US and Osama as the easiest to relate to, elsewhere I just talked about "west" in general.

Right...apart from you being wrong on every count on Osama and US with Free Speech.

Please provide source to any claim as to why Osama in any way is related to this case. Or that the US has even punished people for distributing his speeches.

[apetley]

4 pending charges of lèse-majesté against Jonathan Head, is he setting a record?

Thats probably why he is being reposted somewhere else? Bring a new face and start afresh?

He was still in BKK this morning so not sure where this story of him being in or being posted to Turkey comes from.

What are the chances of him being arrested at the airport should he try to leave?

[justanothercybertosser]

... at this point it is one woman't complaint isn't it?

No, it isn't just that.

It is only the latest and worst of many such incidents in which the FCCT has been targeted, and also individual foreign journalists critical of the PAD. This woman is not only a well known PAD member, but it has been reported that her family is very close to Privy Council member Thanin (his short rule after the '76 events were memorable for its massive human rights abuses).

[justanothercybertosser]

But still think strongly that "mudslinging"and trying to discredit the countries highly revered institution has NOTHING to do with "media freedom" or "free speech" - it simply is either politically motivated, or the group/person lacks character!

In Germany there is something like a "self censorship", which calls for "ethical" Journalism - if this isn't an oxymoron in itself already...

The FCCT has not discredited the monarchy, and throwing around such accusations is slander.

On the opposite - as i pointed out - the FCCT has even published a very beautiful coffeetable book about the King.

As your second comment suggest - you appear to have a personal grudge against the profession of journalism.

[Hermano Lobo]

Jak down the Pub is a Publican. Why is this not allowed ?

[JohnGotti]

These farang are scum and do not care at all about Thai culture or the Thai people. It makes my blood boil. How dare these journalists attempt to malign the monarchy. They must go to trial and pay the consequences.

Edited July 3, 2009 by JohnGotti

[Plus]

Now you are only being dishonest. And UK hdoesn't have a 'first amendment' protecting free speech and has never really been a free nation. Hence why it wasn't used as an example.

You telling why I didn't use the UK as an example? I singled out the US and Osama as the easiest to relate to, elsewhere I just talked about "west" in general.

Right...apart from you being wrong on every count on Osama and US with Free Speech.

Please provide source to any claim as to why Osama in any way is related to this case. Or that the US has even punished people for distributing his speeches.

The Al Quaeda handbook is allegedly written by Osama, and it's possession was apparently related to one of the sixteen UK charges. How deep do you want to go into this case in this thread? What will it achieve?

If terrorism related charges are not a convincing example of restricting freedom of speech/propaganda for you, there are also defamation laws in every country. LM law is just a modification related tospecifically protecting the royal family.

The FCCT has not discredited the monarchy, and throwing around such accusations is slander.

Yeah, sue me.

Are you their lawyer/spokesman or what? They have been charged, there will be trial, they are entitled to defence. That's the end of the argument with you.

Those who don't want to apply strict legal standards on anonimous discussion boards may continue.

It was extremely stupid if they continued distributing a video for which the speaker was taken to court already. Their "foreign" status doesn't make them immune. Also the number of positive articles about the monarchy doesn't give them immunity from prosecution, it's not like earning indulgencies.

[apetley]

These farang are scum and do not care at all about Thai culture or the Thai people. It makes my blood boil. How dare these journalists attempt to malign the monarchy. They must go to trial and pay the consequences.

You know what, I bet this does not even get to trial because in the end wiser heads will prevail and it will be revealed as the trumped up rubbish it really is.

[TAWP]

Now you are only being dishonest. And UK hdoesn't have a 'first amendment' protecting free speech and has never really been a free nation. Hence why it wasn't used as an example.

You telling why I didn't use the UK as an example? I singled out the US and Osama as the easiest to relate to, elsewhere I just talked about "west" in general.

Right...apart from you being wrong on every count on Osama and US with Free Speech.

Please provide source to any claim as to why Osama in any way is related to this case. Or that the US has even punished people for distributing his speeches.

The Al Quaeda handbook is allegedly written by Osama, and it's possession was apparently related to one of the sixteen UK charges. How deep do you want to go into this case in this thread? What will it achieve?

A preachers terrorism charge in the UK has ZERO bearing on free speech in the US.

Don't mix your cards and pretend you are right.

So we will dig until you admit that you are wrong.

[edwinchester]

Are you their lawyer/spokesman or what? They have been charged, there will be trial, they are entitled to defence. That's the end of the argument with you.

Those who don't want to apply strict legal standards on anonimous discussion boards may continue.

It was extremely stupid if they continued distributing a video for which the speaker was taken to court already. Their "foreign" status doesn't make them immune. Also the number of positive articles about the monarchy doesn't give them immunity from prosecution, it's not like earning indulgencies.

Have they been charged with lese majeste?

I was under the impression all that has happened so far is that a complaint has been filed by a so called 'member of the public'.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Plus]

Complaint been filed, that's probably all that happened.

So we will dig until you admit that you are wrong.

Wrong about what?

The US creating laws that interfere with human rights when their security is threatened?

You never heard of complains about eroding liberties? Things like monitoring e-mails and what not?

[TAWP]

So we will dig until you admit that you are wrong.

Wrong about what?

The US creating laws that interfere with human rights when their security is threatened?

You never heard of complains about eroding liberties? Things like monitoring e-mails and what not?

Backpedal all you want, your initial premise is still wrong.

(And cutting away large sections of my response so you could write a nonsensical reply without really answering anything while pretending you don't know what I would be referring to..is dishonest.)

[torrenova]

Another attempt to intimidate the press. Surprisingly it is sometimes successful. Both the BBC and CNN have admitted they chose not to report some issues or report issues differently for fear their Thai-based staff would fall foul of Thai law.

If true, then that is disgraceful. But what is the solution to stop politically (usually) based complaints being made under the guise of an antiquated law ?

Just another reason for Thailand to wise up and decide whether it wants to play in the 21st century or remain with one foot based in the near Dark Ages. Freedom of the press is paramount.

[catmac]

Consitutionally Thailand is a monarchy, campaigning for republican system would be unconstitutional.

Plus, sometimes you do make a complete fool of yourself.

It is not unconstitutional to campaign for a republic in a constitutional monarchy, it is simply an example of the freedom of speech and thought that most people enjoy outside of this sad country. Look at Oz, for example, where the movement to remove the UK monarch as titular head of state thrives in a completely legal way.

I fear that you are allowing your near hysterical rage (all stemming from your hatred of one man, I fear) to cloud your judgment - or to put it another way, you are in danger of losing your marbles and starting to spout utter drivel!

[Plus]

It is not unconstitutional to campaign for a republic in a constitutional monarchy, it is simply an example of the freedom of speech and thought that most people enjoy outside of this sad country.

CHAPTER XV

Amendment of the Constitution

Section 291. An amendment of the Constitution may be made only under the rules and procedure as follows:

...

A motion for amendment which has the effect of changing the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State or changing the form of State shall be prohibited;

>>>

It is unconstitutional in this "sad" country.

Don't call me a "fool" if you are clearly wrong.

Backpedal all you want, your initial premise is still wrong.

Backpedal to what? My initial premise was that if you try to distribute Osama speeches in the US you'll attract all sorts of attention form counter-terrorism agencies, freedom of speech notwithstanding. Especially if you are a visiting foreigner.

Why Thailand should be held to different standards when its security is under threat? Why Thai citizens can't inform the police of suspicios activities, like someone breaking the LM law?

[sprq]

out of love of HM, does that make her a bad person?

Prove this was done out of love of HM!! and not for a different reason.

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the King himself expressed his desire to revoke the lese mageste laws?

Mildly

[DaleBlue]

out of love of HM, does that make her a bad person?

Prove this was done out of love of HM!! and not for a different reason.

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the King himself expressed his desire to revoke the lese mageste laws?

Mildly

Discussing about the King's intention should not be allowed. I guess.

[Ijustwannateach]

Plus, I'm afraid I can't engage with someone on a rational level who wants to refer to Obama as a terrorist.

Obama, Osama, they are all the same to you, aren't they?

>>>>

I agree, I don't think we can have a rational discussion if you can't even be bothered to read my posts and accuse me of some bizarre baiting practices.

it is legal to copy* and distribute any speeches by Osama in the US.

Did you read my post about muslim cleric who was convicted for possession of Osama's handbook, among other things? Even though it was in the Uk, he was wanted in the US for "supporting terrorism", too.

What can I say? My bad- I do make mistakes from time to time.

However, I think my country is strong enough to survive *Osama*'s speeches.

[yeti]

A little funny essay by Harrison George of Prachatai on what could happen with this case :

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1287.

[Samuian]

A little funny essay by Harrison George of Prachatai on what could happen with this case :

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1287.

I love subtle sarcasm in the hood of blunt humor... just love it!

or is ti just Thai-Reality-Show which seems to be somehow so funny after all...

[yeti]

Then have a look at his other articles:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/taxonomy/term/6.

[Pierrot]

IMHO the more Lese Majeste complains are filed for futile reasons, the more it undermines the position of His Majesty .

[baht&sold]

IMHO the more Lese Majeste complains are filed for futile reasons, the more it undermines the position of His Majesty .

FULLY AGREED. Extended to include the following:

_________________

Puea Thai MP to join bid seeking pardon for Thaksin

Bangkok Post 4 July 2009

A Bangkok MP of the main opposition Puea Thai Party Keng Karun announced on Saturday afternoon that he, other party Bangkok MPs, Love Thaksin People groups and several other democratic organizations will next week launch campaign to collect signatures of people for seeking royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Mr Karun said his campaign is for providing convenience for people who want to help the ex-premier return to Thailand. The MP strongly criticized the twin brothers Kawsan and Kwansuang who opposed the royal pardon seeking bid. He said he did not know the two famous academics used which part of his body to think that the bid was not constitutional. He stressed that the royal pardon seeking bid is in line with the charter.

Mr Kaewsan and Mr Kwansuang had yesterday blasted the attempt to seek royal pardon by the core leaders of the United front for Democracy against Dictatorship. They said the bid was not lawful and was the dragging high institution into politics for self interest.

(full article here)

[wolf5370]

It is not unconstitutional to campaign for a republic in a constitutional monarchy, it is simply an example of the freedom of speech and thought that most people enjoy outside of this sad country.

CHAPTER XV

Amendment of the Constitution

Section 291. An amendment of the Constitution may be made only under the rules and procedure as follows:

...

A motion for amendment which has the effect of changing the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State or changing the form of State shall be prohibited;

>>>

It is unconstitutional in this "sad" country.

Don't call me a "fool" if you are clearly wrong.

Backpedal all you want, your initial premise is still wrong.

Backpedal to what? My initial premise was that if you try to distribute Osama speeches in the US you'll attract all sorts of attention form counter-terrorism agencies, freedom of speech notwithstanding. Especially if you are a visiting foreigner.

Why Thailand should be held to different standards when its security is under threat? Why Thai citizens can't inform the police of suspicios activities, like someone breaking the LM law?

I have read through this whole thread and tried to keep an open mind. While I do not always agree with some of the analogies put forward (and think they actually undermine the argument rather than strengthen it) - I do think Thailand has the right constitutionally to protect the system of government it has chosen. I would guess that the democratic system is protected in America and constitutional monarchy is protected in Britain (as the Queen has the right of last veto and dissolution of parliament - she would actually have to vote herself out - which I think would be a travesty personally).

As to the DVD's I have two points I guess: 1) Was this the only speech on sale or are all such political speeches sold from all sides (i.e. like Reuters disseminating press releases and charging - it would be up to the buyer to decide to air or not); and 2) If I had to come up with an analogy we could perhaps get our heads around, The Clockwork Orange was banned in the 60's in the UK because at the time it was deemed obscene. The authorities had ordered the films off the shelves (actually out of he theatres) while the courts deliberated on whether to uphold a ban or not, it would not be allowed to be sold - even though officially it was not yet a prohibited media, but because it may be and was being legally challenged and to do so with in the knowledge that it may well be illegal was to prejudge the outcome of the court ruling and thus leaving yourself open to prosecution. If it's any easier, you could consider a pornographic film that was being challenged by the courts - selling it whist the challenge is going on would land you in court yourself if the outcome was it was obscene material and thus illegal. The issue is that selling obscene material is illegal in the UK; the fact that it hasn't yet been deemed so officially is no excuse - think child porn - if deemed obscene after the fact, you were still guilty of selling it.

Sorry longer winded than I meant it to be. All I mean by this is that there is a law, and the speech is being challenged in court as being in violation of this law, then duplication of said 'potential law break' is foolhardy at best. If there is real international interest in the piece, then the UK/USA/Wherever could have downloaded a copy from YouTube (or failing that a smuggled copy could have been sent surreptitiously to home base) and thus avoiding the whole affair. Whatever the woman's motives were, is not really relevant.

Edited July 4, 2009 by wolf5370

[Sisaketmike]

Woman Seeks Police Action against FCCT

A woman has filed a complaint with the police against the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand for selling VCDs of the alleged lese majeste speech by a former PM's Office Minister and translating a red-shirt leader's alleged lese majeste speeches into English and distributing them.

57-year-old Lackana Kornsilapa, who works as translator and adviser to a private company, filed a lese majeste suit at the Lumpini police station against Jonathan Head, BBC correspondent to Asia, and the 13 board members of the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand, or FCCT.

She alleged the accused had conspired to sell VCDs of the alleged lese majeste speech by former PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair, given at the FCCT on August 29, 2007.

Moreover, the group also translated alleged lese majeste speeches by red-shirt leaders Veera Musikapong, and Nutthawut Saigua into English.

Lackana said she filed this complaint as a Thai national who respects and loves the Monarchy. She added that the FCCT may be attempting to smear the image of the Monarchy and damage Thailand with this action and noted a Thai newspaper may be involved.

-- Tan Network 2009-07-01

I'm a kind of irritated now. What shirt should I wear when I'm going to a temple? The red , yellow, or blue one? maybe better to go to a Si maha Poh...long pajabhaan.....

-- BBC 11.11.1111

[DaleBlue]

IMHO the more Lese Majeste complains are filed for futile reasons, the more it undermines the position of His Majesty .

Perhaps, that's her real intention.

[phibunmike]

.... All I mean by this is that there is a law, and the speech is being challenged in court as being in violation of this law, then duplication of said 'potential law break' is foolhardy at best

....

I apologise for only quoting a small portion of your post.

The FCCT frequently offers for sale copies of speeches made at the club. It seems to do a fair job of providing fair opportunity for all sides to air their views.

Once the offending speech by Jakrapob resulted in a court case, it would seem reasonable that the general public should have the opportunity to see the speech for themselves, so that they can form their own opinion of its content and intent. Thus, it seems to me that the FCCT was fulfilling its duty in providing copies of the speech; to self-censor runs the risk of biased representation.

The FCCT did not broadcast the speech; they simply made copies available to those interested.

I am reminded of the recent furore over certain cartoons in a Danish newspaper. Once the issue became headlines, I am sure I was not the only one who then wanted to see the cartoons for themselves, to see if the complaints were, in my opinion, reasonable. How can we possibly form an opinion about a matter when we don't have access to the facts?

The FCCT, in their "mission statement", refer to the goal of supporting a free press ("As Southeast Asia's largest and oldest press club, the main goal of the FCCT and its members is to promote and protect the rights of the press in Thailand and across Asia. "). Publishing the DVD is in line with that quest. The committee are, I believe, all journalists; and journalists frequently run risks to provide us with truth.

[Maestro]

An unattributed new story and the replies to it have been deleted.

--

Maestro

[hammered]

The power games reach a heightened level with both sides trying to involve monarchy in the game as they go for a win.

By the way, why was the torpedo abandoned by the UDD? She even stated this herself. The answer lies in you cannot be seen to be disloyal and while the speeches of Jakrapob and the writings of Giles are open to interpretation, what the Torpedo said is extremely clear and embarrased even the PTP, UDD and assorted red shirts.

Havent seen any mention that sonthi and Sulak have outstanding LM charges against them in at least one case (Sulak) filed by pro-Thaksin elements. This politcal game is nasty and there are no holds barred. The intent behind LM cases is hard to see clearly as they can be seen as attempts to muzzle media or attempts to embarrass government or attempts to get media to report in a certain way. That any complaint will be taken seriously coupled wioth the slow pace of legal investigation and means all levels of games can be played. There is no simple analysis.

Then there is the other attempt to inolve or embarrass monarchy: the petition for pardon which is procedurally flawed and hence will put th erecipient into the position of doing nothing or acting outside procedure.

Nasty stuff. Oh and the asset seizure case starts soon and if anyione thinks that has nothing to do wioth heightened tension they would be a bit silly.

Getting back to LM. The cases against international figures and media bodies will likely go nowhere imho but more cases will be brought as sides attempt to : intimidate media, manipulate media, embarrass government and pessure the ultimate institution.

[sbk]

Posts have been deleted, Please do not post "joke" articles in the News, thanks.