Thai Passport / Uk Passport Dual Nationality...?

[jasonr3255]

My Wife's Thai friend has just returned to Thailand with her 2 daughters who both have Thai and UK Passports. They all travelled on there Thai Passports to avoid having to apply for Visas. Her Daughters went to apply for a new id cards but have been told they can not hold dual nationality, and now must choose Thai or UK Passport. They were told the if they apply for Thai ID Cards the Thai department will write to the UK Embassy and ask for their UK Passport to be revoked.. Both Daughters were born in the UK and the the mother has been in the UK For nearly 20 YEARS. She is currently in Thailand and desperately needs some clarity on this latest fiasco. Can somebody please sed some light on this matter please.

Many Thanks

[perousing]

how old are your daughters? as i understand they can have duel nationality up to 18 years of age then they have to choose which passport they want to hold.

[Mario2008]

I think this is a misinterpretation of the Thai nationality law, art. 14. There is no need for them to choose for one nationality. But I will leave it to others better informed on this subject to explain. Many Thai people have dual nationality, without any problems.

The Thai nationality act can be found here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a84046-...ntil-2551..html (english)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...inkID%3DheadLaw (Thai)

[p_brownstone]

Total nonsense.

I can imagine the U.K. Governments' reaction to a request - from ANY Country - to revoke an individuals UK Passport!

Patrick

[opalhort]

It appears there is something going on regarding dual nationalities in the EU.

A few weeks ago there was an article in the BKK Post that Germany will no longer permit it.

I called the German embassy about our son (now 15yo with Thai ID and PP) and asked if he can obtain German nationality.

The answer was that yes he can now but at the age of 18 he will have to chose either Thai or German nationality.

So it looks like that dual nationality for EU is no longer an option.

opalhort

[samran]

It is total nonsense.

I have dual Thai Australian nationality. Born and grew up in Australia, I got my first ID card when I was 30.

Admitedly, where I got the ID card were a little worried about the fact that I had dual nationality, but they did the sensible thing and rang the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs who set them straight. I suggest your wifes friend suggest to the Ampur that they do the same.

As mario as pointed out, the law gives a child born to the foregin parent a OPTION to renounce their Thai citizenship between 20 and 21, IF THEY SO WISH. No compulsion to do so and no penalty if no choice is made.

I'm guessing now that they issue here isn't the dual nationality issue per se, it is a loss face issue for the official who said 'no'.

I'm also guessing that the wife is registered 'up country', where, well, officals may want to do thing either their way or the highway, regardless of the rules. If at all possible, move the daughters details to a house registration (tabieen baan) somewhere in Bangkok. Officials in BKK generally tend to be a bit more professional about handling these things.

[samran]

It appears there is something going on regarding dual nationalities in the EU.

A few weeks ago there was an article in the BKK Post that Germany will no longer permit it.

I called the German embassy about our son (now 15yo with Thai ID and PP) and asked if he can obtain German nationality.

The answer was that yes he can now but at the age of 18 he will have to chose either Thai or German nationality.

So it looks like that dual nationality for EU is no longer an option.

opalhort

sorry, this is misleading.

Nationality laws in the EU are decided by each member state. That germany decides to do this has no impact on what other member states do. And the UK definetly has no problem with dual nationals.

[opalhort]

Nationality laws in the EU are decided by each member state. That germany decides to do this has no impact on what other member states do. And the UK definetly has no problem with dual nationals.

You are correct. I only did a brief search and call to the German embassy to get clarification after reading the article, which by the way was mostly aimed at dual German/Turkish nationals.

In any case, if you apply for a nationality and you are requested to denounce your original(native) one it does not mean that action is taken by the country of your original nationality.

I doubt very much that any country which provided the nationality by birthright would ever revoke it.

opalhort

[samran]

My Wife's Thai friend has just returned to Thailand with her 2 daughters who both have Thai and UK Passports. They all travelled on there Thai Passports to avoid having to apply for Visas. Her Daughters went to apply for a new id cards but have been told they can not hold dual nationality, and now must choose Thai or UK Passport. They were told the if they apply for Thai ID Cards the Thai department will write to the UK Embassy and ask for their UK Passport to be revoked.. Both Daughters were born in the UK and the the mother has been in the UK For nearly 20 YEARS. She is currently in Thailand and desperately needs some clarity on this latest fiasco. Can somebody please sed some light on this matter please.

Many Thanks

the other option is simply to let the unnamed 'Thai Department' write that letter to the UK embassy.

The UK embassy will, if they can be bothered, write a very polite letter back to said Thai department which will essentially say "stick your request where the sun don't shine. The Thai government has no right to make such a request. The UK government, and only the UK government has the authority to revoke the nationality of a citizen, and in the case of a child who was born with British nationality (such as this), can't do it anyway until that child is an adult and applies for a renounciation of British nationality of their own accourd".

No doubt it won't even get to that stage. The unnamed 'Thai Department' will undoubtedly be the Ministry of Foregin affairs, who will, in nice polite Thai burecratese, tell the Ampur to 'shove it'.

[KhunFalang]

I have seen two similar situations. One was with a person who was born in Thailand, and the other was with a person who was born to a Thai mother in the US. In the first case, the Thai born friend had a few Thai documents, such as birth certificate and house registration. Both of those documents helped convincing the government bureaucrats to give her a Thai ID. She never had one before as she left Thailand when she was younger. In the second case, the US born child got a Thai passport at the Thai consulate, without even having a Thai ID. She will apply for the Thai ID on the next trip to Thailand.

In both of the above cases, these friends had themselves registered in the House Registration document. And having their names included in the House Registration, helped legitimise their connection to Thailand. So on your wife's and daughters' next trip to Thailand, have your wife include / register the daughters in the family's House Registration. Having that document in hand should help.

Hope this inclusion in the House Rgistration will help your daughters. Of course, it will also help if your daughters speak Thai... Even if not perfectly. It will simply be another instrument in convincing the beaurocrats that the daughters are "Thai".

Best of luck.

[KhunFalang]

I have just re-read your post. It is late night... so by the time I read everyone else's reply to you, I forgot that you mentioned that your daughters hold Thai passport. In that case, just have your wife and daughters go to apply for the Thai ID with a polite, but positive stand, that she "will not take NO for an answer". Have her insist that her daughters ARE Thai and say nothing about a UK nationality.

In the case I mentioned above, my friend made no mention of a US nationality and got her ID in BKK. Just have your wife be polite BUT INSISTANT on getting the IDs for her daughters. If anyone asks anything about foreign nationality, well, just say NO, they ARE Thai.

Insisting while being polite is sometimes necesssary in Thailand. (May be a litttle "donation" too?...).

[torrenova]

Total nonsense.

I can imagine the U.K. Governments' reaction to a request - from ANY Country - to revoke an individuals UK Passport!

Patrick

Two words, second word "off".

I went through this with the Japanese situation and they are also asked to "choose" but in reality no-one does.

The Thai government cannot refuse (realistically) to issue Thai documents to a Thai citizen irrespective of whether another country issues them documents for that country.

Just some trumped up twerp who has his own idea of what the rules are.

[Mario2008]

Nationality laws in the EU are decided by each member state. That germany decides to do this has no impact on what other member states do. And the UK definetly has no problem with dual nationals.

You are correct. I only did a brief search and call to the German embassy to get clarification after reading the article, which by the way was mostly aimed at dual German/Turkish nationals.

In any case, if you apply for a nationality and you are requested to denounce your original(native) one it does not mean that action is taken by the country of your original nationality.

I doubt very much that any country which provided the nationality by birthright would ever revoke it.

opalhort

You always have to make a distinction between having a nationality by birth right and opting for another nationality. Some countries don't even allow their nationals to renounce their natonality, while others give it automaticly when you marry a national of that country.

A lot of countries in the EU now want you to renounce your nationality if you opt for their nationality, but don't have a problem with having double nationality in the case you have 2 nationalities by birth right.

[Mario2008]

I have just re-read your post. It is late night... so by the time I read everyone else's reply to you, I forgot that you mentioned that your daughters hold Thai passport. In that case, just have your wife and daughters go to apply for the Thai ID with a polite, but positive stand, that she "will not take NO for an answer". Have her insist that her daughters ARE Thai and say nothing about a UK nationality.

In the case I mentioned above, my friend made no mention of a US nationality and got her ID in BKK. Just have your wife be polite BUT INSISTANT on getting the IDs for her daughters. If anyone asks anything about foreign nationality, well, just say NO, they ARE Thai.

Insisting while being polite is sometimes necesssary in Thailand. (May be a litttle "donation" too?...).

It will help if the daugters are regeistered on someones household book, as they then are officialy living here. Without being registered there seems to be a problem getting a Thai ID-card.

[torrenova]

Good point Mario, distinguishing between a choice made in adult life to adopt the nationility of another country and the accident of birth being born with dual or more nationalities.

As my ex was Japanese and I'm from the UK, we did consider, were we ever to have kids, having them born in the USA or Oz, giving them a claim on 3 countries.

[samran]

I have just re-read your post. It is late night... so by the time I read everyone else's reply to you, I forgot that you mentioned that your daughters hold Thai passport. In that case, just have your wife and daughters go to apply for the Thai ID with a polite, but positive stand, that she "will not take NO for an answer". Have her insist that her daughters ARE Thai and say nothing about a UK nationality.

In the case I mentioned above, my friend made no mention of a US nationality and got her ID in BKK. Just have your wife be polite BUT INSISTANT on getting the IDs for her daughters. If anyone asks anything about foreign nationality, well, just say NO, they ARE Thai.

Insisting while being polite is sometimes necesssary in Thailand. (May be a litttle "donation" too?...).

It will help if the daugters are regeistered on someones household book, as they then are officialy living here. Without being registered there seems to be a problem getting a Thai ID-card.

actually, it is impossible to get an ID card without being registered on the house book.

No registration, no ID card.

Registration must come first.

The other thing that the offical doesn't understand, and that I forgot to say, is that the kids already are Thai citizens, even without the ID card. As such, the officials statement makes no sense, given that issuing an ID card doesn't make you Thai (which they already are). IT only proves that they are Thai (and is really only needed if they are living in Thailand anyway).

[markm]

I think all this talk of allowing citizens dual nationality will start to become moot in the next decade or so - It's highly likely each country will impose rules that you can only enter a country on the passport you left on (i.e. Stamped out on departure by the origination immigration & stamped in by the destination immigration). Leaving on one passport & entering on another will be verboten and woe beside you if you do that.

The whole point of holding dual nationality is to hold 2 passports which gets around immigration & visa issues. Great for us, but not for the "gods" who are trying to track and monitor all the millions of travellers around the globe. The thai govermit will like that as it can look forward to all the overstay "fines" it can levy on all the farangs wives when they come over to visit their family for months on end on their foreign passports.

No prizes as to the country who is the main force behind wanting each country's immigration forces to insist on the airline carriers feed them passenger details. (Hint: the very same country who greedy citizens caused the global credit crunch in the first place )

[samran]

I think all this talk of allowing citizens dual nationality will start to become moot in the next decade or so - It's highly likely each country will impose rules that you can only enter a country on the passport you left on (i.e. Stamped out on departure by the origination immigration & stamped in by the destination immigration). Leaving on one passport & entering on another will be verboten and woe beside you if you do that.

The whole point of holding dual nationality is to hold 2 passports which gets around immigration & visa issues. Great for us, but not for the "gods" who are trying to track and monitor all the millions of travellers around the globe. The thai govermit will like that as it can look forward to all the overstay "fines" it can levy on all the farangs wives when they come over to visit their family for months on end on their foreign passports.

No prizes as to the country who is the main force behind wanting each country's immigration forces to insist on the airline carriers feed them passenger details. (Hint: the very same country who greedy citizens caused the global credit crunch in the first place )

probably one of the more stupid posts I've ever read.

[antony77]

I think this is a misinterpretation of the Thai nationality law, art. 14. There is no need for them to choose for one nationality. But I will leave it to others better informed on this subject to explain. Many Thai people have dual nationality, without any problems.

The Thai nationality act can be found here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a84046-...ntil-2551..html (english)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...inkID%3DheadLaw (Thai)

My wife has dual nationality and officially as far as Thailand is concerned. She can not. She once had a lot of trouble Returning from Malaysia by train, she used her UK passpoprt to exit Malaysiays and her Thai passport.to enter Thailand.

Some nasty man on the train told the Thai immigration that she has two passports and they pointed out that she had no Malaysian stamps in her Thai passport so she had to produce her UK one. They then wrote in big letters on her Thai passport that she also had a UK one. They were very unpleasant about it. She also had a problem with a young airline attendant when she produced her UK passport to show that she could enter the UK, because she did not have a UK visa in her Thai passport. She rudely told us that she can not have two passports and I very rudely asked if she was an immigration officer and if not it was no business of hers. I complained to her superior and she apologised and reprimanded the girl. Immigration officers now check stamps in your Thai passsport and if you have used another passport you can have problems.

Many Thais have dual nationality by hide thios from immigration officials

[Mario2008]

My wife has dual nationality and officially as far as Thailand is concerned. She can not. She once had a lot of trouble Returning from Malaysia by train, she used her UK passpoprt to exit Malaysiays and her Thai passport.to enter Thailand.

Some nasty man on the train told the Thai immigration that she has two passports and they pointed out that she had no Malaysian stamps in her Thai passport so she had to produce her UK one. They then wrote in big letters on her Thai passport that she also had a UK one. They were very unpleasant about it. She also had a problem with a young airline attendant when she produced her UK passport to show that she could enter the UK, because she did not have a UK visa in her Thai passport. She rudely told us that she can not have two passports and I very rudely asked if she was an immigration officer and if not it was no business of hers. I complained to her superior and she apologised and reprimanded the girl. Immigration officers now check stamps in your Thai passsport and if you have used another passport you can have problems.

Many Thais have dual nationality by hide thios from immigration officials

Some Thai officials still think it is illegal, while it is not. There is no need to hide dual nationality from the Thai governement and daily people apply for Thai nationality at Thai embassies without any problem, in full knowledge thatthey also have another nationality.

Some older guard oficials still seem to make problems when soemone has dual nationality, but Thai law allows it.

[lopburi3]

You can never switch passports at a land crossing as they check for stamp out of the other country. Thailand has no laws that prevent holding more than one passport but it is a larger terrorist issue at the Malaysia border so even greater attention is given.

[Wanida]

If It was me, I would avoid arguing with the authority and just simply register my daughters on someone's house book which is not in that amphur.Nowadays you can do it online in any amphur any province and you don't need to contact the original amphur at all, just bring along with you your old house book and the approval of the new house book owner to the amphur.It can be done in 15 mins with a 10 baht fee. Since their names are on the new book , they can apply for their id cards straight away.And if they were asked about other passports or dual citizenship,Just say no. I know it sounds dodgy but that is what many thais do.

[Kitsch22]

I think this is a misinterpretation of the Thai nationality law, art. 14. There is no need for them to choose for one nationality. But I will leave it to others better informed on this subject to explain. Many Thai people have dual nationality, without any problems.

The Thai nationality act can be found here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a84046-...ntil-2551..html (english)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...inkID%3DheadLaw (Thai)

The second link (the one to the Thai text) yields errors in each of the four browsers that I have tried. If broken, could it possibly be mended, please?