Thai Immunization Program - Vaccines: Yes Or No?

[johnnymoretti]

Here is a list of the immunization program taken right out of the booklet given to us by our hospital (Thai Nakarin Hospital in Bang Na). We gave birth a week ago and if I had the chance, I would have held off on the Hep B shot until I did more research. What has been your experience???

(The list below is their program. I neither endorse or rebuke any of it. I'm only providing information by our hospital)

Newborn: BCG Vaccine against TB

Hep B 1st Dose

1 Month: Hep B 2nd Dose

2 Months: DPT. OPV/IPV. HIB 1st Dose

4 Months: DPT. OPV/IPV. HIB 2nd Dose

6 Months: DPT. OPV/IPV. HIB 3rd Dose

HEP B 3rd Dose

9 - 15 Months: Mumps; Measles; Rubella (MMR) 1st Dose

12 Months: Japanese-Encephalitis (JE) 1st Dose

18 Months: DPT OPV 1st Booster

2 Years: JE Vaccine 2nd Booster (at least 3-12 months from 1st dose)

4 - 6 Years: DP, OPV 2nd Booster; MMR 2nd Dose

12 - 15 Years: dT or dTpa and booster every 10 years (tetanus).

There are optional vaccines, but these listed are the mandatory in this hospital.

Would like to get opinions on the HEP B Vaccine!! Did your child/newborn get the series?? If you got the first dose, did you continue the dosages?

Thanks!!

Edited July 12, 2009 by johnnymoretti

[Boo]

My son had all of the vaccines offered in UK as well as Hep B, Thailand is a Hep B risk country & my son also had BCG at 8 weeks due to Thailand risks of TB as well.

Vaccines, IMO, are not only there to protect your child, by giving them to your child you offer protection to any children/pregnant women that they come into contact with too.

My sons child minder will not accept children without the full vaccines up to date as she rightly points out to any parent who gets offended, that what risk they wish to put their child in doesn't mean that the other kids she looks after should suffer too. But it is at the end of the day a persona choice.

The only one on that list that i can't see a need for is the JE.

[WhiteShrek]

Yep gone for the full monty - never know what you might pick up in this swamp people call Thailand. The above schedule was similar to ours. We also added the Pneumoccocal vaccine - expensive but in our view worth it compared to the risk of the effects of diseases it prevents against.

Very much agree with the poster above, that vaccination 1) is personal choice 2) shouldn't be underestimated in its use of protecting other society members indirectly and not just the person vaccinated.

BTW JE is most prevalent in SE Asia, so probably worth it if in Thailand and you travel in the region, but probably not if you live and remain in UK.

[g00dgirl]

I declined all vaccines at birth. Hep B I personally don't see a reason to give this vaccine at birth unless the mother has got Hep B (should be checked for during pregnancy anyway). If the mother has Hep B there is a risk for the baby to be infected during birth. Transmission of hepatitis B virus results from exposure to infectious blood or body fluids containing blood, hepatitis B is heavily concentrated in groups at high risk due to occupation, sexual promiscuity, or drug abuse. Unless a family member or people who are in very close contact with the baby have Hep B or you perceive could be at risk of having Hep B (just a stupid example, your girlfriends sister is an ex-bargirl and will be caring for your baby) I personally would decide again before puberty if my child should be vaccinated or not.

The governments put the Hep B vaccine so early in the vaccination schedule because they can better control that all people get vaccinated, not because there is an immediate risk to the newborn baby.

The first vaccines were approved in the beginning of the 1980s. The American Association of Pediatrics supported the vaccination campaign of children in the mid 1980s in the USA and received in 1988 a donation of 100,000 USD from the manufacturer of the vaccine Merck (Orient, J. 1999 http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbcom.htm)

[Boo]

Hep B isn't even an option for kids in UK unless specifically asked for. When found that we would be traveling to Thailand often it was suggested. As the nurse put it, even when no contact with someone with Hep B is possible a shard of glass or cut on a small child carries the risk of Hep B. Enough of a chance (no matter how slim) for me to think it worth getting.

About the JE, when I started traveling years ago it was on the list for me to get but was told that as it was mostly a risk to people spending a lot of time in rice paddies then it wasn't worth having. I think when we move back I will probably give it to my son too as we wil be in the NE so the risk there is greater.

[britmaveric]

Protected for life with series of HepA/HepB - I know my nieces have had the series. I decided to get it done myself and going for second course this Friday. I think at the end of the day - better to protect oneself if you can.

[torrenova]

I asked a nurse about Jap E and was told that it was only good for 2 years. that seems very short and I haven't researched it yet but anyone else know ?

Ours has just gone through the 2 yr old lot.

[Mario2008]

I asked a nurse about Jap E and was told that it was only good for 2 years. that seems very short and I haven't researched it yet but anyone else know ?

Ours has just gone through the 2 yr old lot.

See here:

Center for Disease Control: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-je.pdf

[bkkjames]

Yep gone for the full monty - never know what you might pick up in this swamp people call Thailand. The above schedule was similar to ours. We also added the Pneumoccocal vaccine - expensive but in our view worth it compared to the risk of the effects of diseases it prevents against.

Very much agree with the poster above, that vaccination 1) is personal choice 2) shouldn't be underestimated in its use of protecting other society members indirectly and not just the person vaccinated.

BTW JE is most prevalent in SE Asia, so probably worth it if in Thailand and you travel in the region, but probably not if you live and remain in UK.

Regarding the pneumoccal, how much was it may I ask. My little one is scheduled for it (and others on Wed).

Thanks

[asiasurfer]

I’m probably a bit over-careful here but I think we put far too much stuff into our young children… A good option may be to wait with important vaccinations as long as possible. It will give your child’s immune system more time to gain initial strength, since every vaccination is a strain on the human body.

I write this message as a father of an autistic son and (some) vaccines are under suspicion to trigger Autism. That is why I would recommend taking it slow on vaccines in general.

Just a few thoughts here regarding your post:

- MMR: It may be a good idea to vaccinate against Mumps, Measles, and Rubella separately over a prolonged period of time. Again, I think it will be easier for the immune system to take in rather than giving all three vaccines in one big injection at the same time.

- HEP B: Please double check that with your doctor because I’m not sure if I confuse HEP A with HEP B here. But as far as I remember HEP B can only be transmitted via blood transfer. Therefore, I don’t think there is a great need for this vaccination. HEP A in contrast (again as far as I remember) can be transmitted by dirty/poisoned food. Therefore, you may wish to do a HEP A vaccination for your child one day.

Just another thought here: You may wish to check with your doctor that all vaccinations you give to your child are mercury-free. Again, this is because mercury is under suspicion to trigger Autism in some children. Of course you should make sure that your child is vaccinated against the most serious diseases. However, my personal opinion on immunisations is: As much as necessary, but as little as possible. Try to choose a doctor you can trust…

Good luck with your family….

[g00dgirl]

I agree with Hotel. A good strategy is to also research each disease carefully at a time. It takes time and needs work, reading taking notes and evaluating your personal circumstances.

Evaluate the risk to your child to contract each disease (age at risk, location, likelihood of exposure, seriousness of the disease) and then research each vaccine separately (ingredients, controversies, studies, how long has the vaccine been in use, could it be proven to be harmless, does it actually work, what are the most common adverse reactions).

There are some good books that address each disease and it's vaccine separately to help people make an informed decision and you should of course look for a book that has references for all statements the author makes.

I have a good one by a German pediatrician, don't know if it has ever been translated to English, it's called "Impfen Pro & Contra" by Martin Hirte. It's a very objective analysis and you can also discover that not all vaccines are actually very effective, that not all diseases are actually life threatening for an otherwise healthy child, and that some vaccines that are given to infants do not start to become effective until after several months of boosters, after which time the disease is no longer life threatening to the baby.

[torrenova]

I hesitated with the MMR and did some research. I, like many I presume, had been aware of stories from some years ago about autism and this vaccine. My knowledge came from some time in the UK. In the end, I chose to have the vaccine given to my child in the single application as I felt there was no real increased risk, with witnesses backing all manner of claims.

[mizzi39]

Our son just turned one. he is up to date with his vaccines, with no problems. Japanese encephalitis was the latest one he received. His first series were obviously administered just after birth. I payed extra for the infantrax vaccine (during his first 6-8 months?? wife is more up on this than I am) which is a 3 in 1 injection. A little expensive, but Well worth it for the little one as far as I am concerned.

As far as vaccines yes or no , it is up to the parents to make informed decisions. Some parents think it is irresponsible to vaccinated their child and somehow they are "poisoning" their child by giving vaccines. I feel it is irresponsible not to vaccinate your child.

Edited July 14, 2009 by mizzi39

[MsFigure]

All I can say is that I wish was as aware just over 5 years ago when my daughter was born as I am now. I've always been worried about vaccinations and after I really started looking into it after they introduced the gardasil (HPV) and I am now 100% against any and all vaccines - especially with the new H1N1 (flying pig human flu).

My daughter had her first round of vaccs and fortunately didn't have any adverse affects from them, but she will absolutely not receive any more - when she starts her new school year/term in september, school admin will be receiving a letter signed from our lawyers stating that under no circumstances will we allow her to receive any vaccinations of any kind (talk of the mandatory flu vaccinations being given to children at schools has me very concerned).

If anyone is on FB check out this group which I am a member of VACCINE RESISTANCE MOVEMENT and it is a source of a lot of great information.

One of the most eye opening videos I've watched about vaccinations is called "In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood and Bioterrorism". You can watch it online and you can also download it. You will not believe what our governments (and this is not only the USA) have been doing for so many years, secret tests and so many other things that will leave you speechless.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674401787208020885

VACCINE INFO

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ngredients.aspx

http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081405.html

http://www.exploringvaccines.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2gteHfCa_k

http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil

http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx

http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/

http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccinations.html

http://www.flunews.org/

http://www.healthfreedomreport.org/

http://www.naturalnews.com/025595.html

http://www.rense.com/general85/cant.htm

LIST OF VACCINE FILLERS: Officially administered by design with every vaccine provided to the public -

In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, here are the fillers:

aluminum hydroxide

aluminum phosphate

ammonium sulfate

amphotericin B

animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,

dog kidney, monkey kidney,

chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg

calf (bovine) serum

betapropiolactone

fetal bovine serum

formaldehyde

formalin

gelatin

glycerol

human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

hydrolized gelatin

monosodium glutamate (MSG)

neomycin

neomycin sulfate

phenol red indicator

phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)

potassium diphosphate

potassium monophosphate

polymyxin B

polysorbate 20

polysorbate 80

porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein

residual MRC5 proteins

sorbitol

sucrose

thimerosal (mercury)

tri(n)butylphosphate,

VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells

washed sheep red blood cells

*This data is available via: www.mercola.com

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ngredients.aspx

These additives are given without public knowledge or consent. Merck, the monster pharmaceutical giant in the US produces the vast majority of vaccine supplies & are protected from prosecution by Federal Statutes imposed under the former Bush administration.

ANALYSIS OF VACCINE FILLERS:

1) ALUMINUM (two variants) - directly linked to Alzheimer's Disease

2) AMMONIUM SULFATE - an inorganic chemical compound used a fertilizer and "protein purifier"; known to cause kidney & liver damage, gastrointestinal disfunctions

3) AMPHOTERICIN B - an "antifungal disinfectant", damages the urinary tract, bowels, heart functions

4) RE-CYCLED ANIMAL TISSUE (multiple) - the building blocks of Mad Cow Disease

5) FORMALDEHYDE - used as "a preservative & disinfectant", known to cause cancer, chronic bronchitis, eye irritation when exposed to the body's immune system

6) MSG - now known to cause cancer in humans

7) PHENOL - a highly toxic disinfectant dye, attributed to liver, kidney, heart & respiratory damage

8) PHENOXYETHANOL (ANTIFREEZE) - proven to have extreme neurotoxic side effects

9) THIMEROSAL (MERCURY) - a neurotoxin linked to psychological, neurological & immunological problems. Nervous system damage, kidney disease, birth defects, dental problems, mood swings, mental changes, hallucinations, memory loss, nerve damage and inability to concentrate can occur. Symptoms also include tremors, loss of dermal sensitivity, slurred speech and, in rare cases, even death and paralysis. This additive alone was the catalyst for another recent Class Action Lawsuit organized by mothers of children born with Autism & the many related behavioral disorders associated with it. Autism is now occurring at levels never seen before in history, 1 in 67. The average used to be 1 in 20,000.

[MsFigure]

Oh and 1 more website to check out - Vaccine Liberation

[chiangmaibruce]

Amazing how threads on this issue consistently flush out the cranks ... I hope for the sake of your child - who is wholly reliant on you to exercise intelligent and mature judgement - that you will spend equal time considering other more authoritative sources on this issue. The quote below is not put forward as the best example, but just one of hundreds (thousands?) of sources online that run contrary to your paranoid delusion. All penned by people bought off by the government and pharma giants? must be, right?

"The diagnosis of childhood autism typically coincides with the recommended time for childhood vaccines, leading many to speculate that there is a connection between the two. One guess was the mercury used as a preservative in many vaccines. Several countries have since discontinued the use of mercury in vaccines, however, and it has had zero impact on the rate of autism; that, combined with the lack of a plausible biological mechanism, has caused the scientific community to reject this proposal and move on."

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...nne-lawsuit.ars

To pick up on just one issue you mention: "Autism is now occurring at levels never seen before in history, 1 in 67. The average used to be 1 in 20,000". Yes well there are quite a few diseases that are now more prevalent than in earlier times aren't there? But there are a hel_l of lot more variables than just childhood vaccination. One reason is that people (who are getting these diseases) would either be dead or have never been born (and hence beyond the reach of disease) in earlier times. Witness for example the number of premature babies kept alive now, babies born to older women from IVF, people who are kept alive to much greater ages (in some cases after having been saved from other diseases), etc.

Oh and by the way, how many successful lawsuits have there been by the anti-vaccination lobby? Don't tell me the judges have been bought off by the pharma giants too?

Edited July 19, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[MsFigure]

Amazing how threads on this issue consistently flush out the cranks ... I hope for the sake of your child - who is wholly reliant on you to exercise intelligent and mature judgement - that you will spend equal time considering other more authoritative sources on this issue. The quote below is not put forward as the best example, but just one of hundreds (thousands?) of sources online that run contrary to your paranoid delusion. All penned by people bought off by the government and pharma giants? must be, right?

"The diagnosis of childhood autism typically coincides with the recommended time for childhood vaccines, leading many to speculate that there is a connection between the two. One guess was the mercury used as a preservative in many vaccines. Several countries have since discontinued the use of mercury in vaccines, however, and it has had zero impact on the rate of autism; that, combined with the lack of a plausible biological mechanism, has caused the scientific community to reject this proposal and move on."

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...nne-lawsuit.ars

To pick up on just one issue you mention: "Autism is now occurring at levels never seen before in history, 1 in 67. The average used to be 1 in 20,000". Yes well there are quite a few diseases that are now more prevalent than in earlier times aren't there? But there are a hel_l of lot more variables than just childhood vaccination. One reason is that people (who are getting these diseases) would either be dead or have never been born (and hence beyond the reach of disease) in earlier times. Witness for example the number of premature babies kept alive now, babies born to older women from IVF, people who are kept alive to much greater ages (in some cases after having been saved from other diseases), etc.

Oh and by the way, how many successful lawsuits have there been by the anti-vaccination lobby? Don't tell me the judges have been bought off by the pharma giants too?

Before you call me a crank, how about you look at the information (especially that video) I posted and look into the possibility that everything you believed about vaccinations have been a lie.

As for successfull lawsuits, big pharma is protected; read Legal Immunity - Since the 1980s, the government has protected vaccine makers against lawsuits over the use of childhood vaccines. Instead, a federal court handles claims and decides who will be paid from a special fund.

I suppose you would be first in line to take the vaccine for swine flu (which btw has been proven to be manufactured in a lab) & give your daughter the HPV vaccination (which has killed & injured girls).

How about you check out the Case against Bird Flu website @ http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/ for what is the real story about what is really going on.

If you want proof that vaccinations do not work, just look at some of those links if you can't be bothered to do your own research.

Show me the proof where vaccinations actually work and I can show you the information from scientists and MD who will tell you otherwise.

[VitalGirl]

All I can say is that I wish was as aware just over 5 years ago when my daughter was born as I am now. I've always been worried about vaccinations and after I really started looking into it after they introduced the gardasil (HPV) and I am now 100% against any and all vaccines - especially with the new H1N1 (flying pig human flu).

My daughter had her first round of vaccs and fortunately didn't have any adverse affects from them, but she will absolutely not receive any more - when she starts her new school year/term in september, school admin will be receiving a letter signed from our lawyers stating that under no circumstances will we allow her to receive any vaccinations of any kind (talk of the mandatory flu vaccinations being given to children at schools has me very concerned).

If anyone is on FB check out this group which I am a member of VACCINE RESISTANCE MOVEMENT and it is a source of a lot of great information.

One of the most eye opening videos I've watched about vaccinations is called "In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood and Bioterrorism". You can watch it online and you can also download it. You will not believe what our governments (and this is not only the USA) have been doing for so many years, secret tests and so many other things that will leave you speechless.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674401787208020885

VACCINE INFO

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ngredients.aspx

http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081405.html

http://www.exploringvaccines.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2gteHfCa_k

http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil

http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx

http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/

http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccinations.html

http://www.flunews.org/

http://www.healthfreedomreport.org/

http://www.naturalnews.com/025595.html

http://www.rense.com/general85/cant.htm

LIST OF VACCINE FILLERS: Officially administered by design with every vaccine provided to the public -

In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, here are the fillers:

aluminum hydroxide

aluminum phosphate

ammonium sulfate

amphotericin B

animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,

dog kidney, monkey kidney,

chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg

calf (bovine) serum

betapropiolactone

fetal bovine serum

formaldehyde

formalin

gelatin

glycerol

human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

hydrolized gelatin

monosodium glutamate (MSG)

neomycin

neomycin sulfate

phenol red indicator

phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)

potassium diphosphate

potassium monophosphate

polymyxin B

polysorbate 20

polysorbate 80

porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein

residual MRC5 proteins

sorbitol

sucrose

thimerosal (mercury)

tri(n)butylphosphate,

VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells

washed sheep red blood cells

*This data is available via: www.mercola.com

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ngredients.aspx

These additives are given without public knowledge or consent. Merck, the monster pharmaceutical giant in the US produces the vast majority of vaccine supplies & are protected from prosecution by Federal Statutes imposed under the former Bush administration.

ANALYSIS OF VACCINE FILLERS:

1) ALUMINUM (two variants) - directly linked to Alzheimer's Disease

2) AMMONIUM SULFATE - an inorganic chemical compound used a fertilizer and "protein purifier"; known to cause kidney & liver damage, gastrointestinal disfunctions

3) AMPHOTERICIN B - an "antifungal disinfectant", damages the urinary tract, bowels, heart functions

4) RE-CYCLED ANIMAL TISSUE (multiple) - the building blocks of Mad Cow Disease

5) FORMALDEHYDE - used as "a preservative & disinfectant", known to cause cancer, chronic bronchitis, eye irritation when exposed to the body's immune system

6) MSG - now known to cause cancer in humans

7) PHENOL - a highly toxic disinfectant dye, attributed to liver, kidney, heart & respiratory damage

8) PHENOXYETHANOL (ANTIFREEZE) - proven to have extreme neurotoxic side effects

9) THIMEROSAL (MERCURY) - a neurotoxin linked to psychological, neurological & immunological problems. Nervous system damage, kidney disease, birth defects, dental problems, mood swings, mental changes, hallucinations, memory loss, nerve damage and inability to concentrate can occur. Symptoms also include tremors, loss of dermal sensitivity, slurred speech and, in rare cases, even death and paralysis. This additive alone was the catalyst for another recent Class Action Lawsuit organized by mothers of children born with Autism & the many related behavioral disorders associated with it. Autism is now occurring at levels never seen before in history, 1 in 67. The average used to be 1 in 20,000.

Your prerogative and your choice, but maybe you could also consider home schooling your child so you don't put others at risk? Australia is experiencing a phenomenal increase in infant deaths due to whooping cough... I happen to be one of the very small % of people who became very ill after my pre-Thailand Hep B vaccines as an adult, as yet I have still had my daughter vaccinated.

[chiangmaibruce]

Before you call me a crank, how about you look at the information <snip>

I suppose you would be first in line to take the vaccine for swine flu (which btw has been proven to be manufactured in a lab) & give your daughter the HPV vaccination (which has killed & injured girls).

<snip>

Ok, so now you are saying that not only is vaccination extremely dangerous, it also doesn't "work". Also that untold thousands of highly trained health professionals who believe otherwise are living a "lie", and that the virus variant known as Mexican or swine flu was manufactured by people in a lab.

You note a court case involving an anti-immunisation group in your OP (and of course there have been others). Now you are saying that anti-immunisation groups cannot win because "big pharma" has legal immunity. That begs the question why they would spend untold thousands of dollars on legal action you say can't be won.

These things are true:

1. There are risks associated with immunisation

2. Immunisation does not guarantee that the recipient will never catch the disease in question

Now you can mark true or false against these points:

1. My children are less likely to catch a debilitating or deadly disease if I have them immunized, than if I don't

2. If my children do catch a such as disease then the outcome on their health and well-being is likely to be substantially greater than any negative effects that would have resulted from immunisation

3. By choosing to not have my children immunized I am potentially exposing not only them, but other people's children, to significant, unnecessary and avoidable risk

And I'll close with just a few short quotes on that last point:

"Lack of complete vaccine coverage increases the risk of disease for the entire population, including those who have been vaccinated. One study found that doubling the number of unvaccinated individuals would increase the risk of measles in vaccinated children anywhere from 5–30%. A second study provided evidence that the risk of measles and pertussis increased in vaccinated children proportionally to the number of unvaccinated individuals among them, again highlighting the evident efficacy of widespread vaccine coverage for public health."

"In several countries, reductions in the use of some vaccines were followed by increases in the diseases' morbidity and mortality. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, continued high levels of vaccine coverage are necessary to prevent resurgence of diseases which have been nearly eliminated.^{'(See link below for some examples of where this has occurred)}

"Vaccine overload is the assertion that giving many vaccines at once may overwhelm or weaken a child's immune system, and lead to adverse effects… Although no scientific evidence supports this idea, it has caused many parents to delay or avoid immunizing their children … The lack of evidence supporting the vaccine overload hypothesis, combined with these findings directly contradicting it, have led to the conclusion that currently recommended vaccine programs do not "overload" or weaken the immune system."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy

[Benjie]

VACCINE INFO

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ngredients.aspx

http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081405.html

http://www.exploringvaccines.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2gteHfCa_k

http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil

http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx

http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/

http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccinations.html

http://www.flunews.org/

http://www.healthfreedomreport.org/

http://www.naturalnews.com/025595.html

http://www.rense.com/general85/cant.htm

Why does it surprise me that I've never heard of any of those websites, I'd hardly be placing my trust in YouTube videos either. I won't get into the MSG stuff.

Vaccinations save 100,000's of lives every year, you have to weigh that up against whatever the bad points may be (I don't personally believe there are any).

I'd also suggest that people who have severe reactions to vaccinations, would likely be even more succeptable to the real disease.

[wolf5370]

I'm confused that people actually believe that the CIA can control every government in the world. Its not just the USA that has a vaccination policy - and it was not an American invention - or was Jenner (known as the man to have saved more lives than anyother) under their influence back in 1794!

Geez, some people! Look, your kids relies on your choices for him/her and taking a risk based on very shakey evidence (mostly disproved) and conspiracy theories is a very dangerous one - for him/her and the rest of society. You may also find that they are barred from travel to many countries, schools and higher education and other places simply because they have not been vaccinated.

[MsFigure]

I'm not surprised by some of the reactions considering that most people continue to believe what they have been told by their doctors, medical professionals and governments. I'm not to going to argue, and I'm just trying to give you the tools to find out the truth.

Go to 5:00 (5 minutes) to see what they say about vaccines in this video about Vivisection -

Also, this a link to the full documentary for those that are interested @ http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...92749&hl=en

It is the first UK produced film exposing the full implications of basing a system of medicine on the practice of animal experimentation, or vivisection, and was produced to counter the bombardment of pro-vivisection propaganda that has been purposely manufactured and disseminated by a media – the BBC in particular – that has been only too eager to take up without question the cause of those whose task it is to convince us that vivisection ‘works’. Bad Medicine exposes: The devastating toll in human lives because of animal 'safety-tested' drugs, and why animal testing is used as a scapegoat when drugs kill and injure people The reasons why animal research cannot help people, and how human health is declining despite - or rather because of - the billions spent on animal research How the cancer industry is not interested in genuine cancer treatments The real reasons for the decline of the infectious diseases - How the media and politicians both benefit from vivisection's continuation - How many within the medical profession are opposed to vivisection, and how the practice is the cause of an out-of-control 'health-care' expenditure That vivisection is responsible for the poisoning of our environment

Also checkout for more information about this documentary http://fuc_kcopyright.blogspot.com/2008/09/...-of-animal.html

All I can say in regards to my decision not to give my daughter anymore vaccinations is that my daughter is healthier and has never had the problems that family & friends have had with their children - ALL of whom get all their vaccinations. The fact that I refuse to let my daughter be a guinea pig also extends to the foods and drinks that our daughter eats.... there are so many things that goverments, big pharma & corporations are doing that so many people are blind to and refuse to believe... look at & research what GM foods & water fluoridation does to people... and I won't even go into what they are spraying in the air (google chemtrails).

And if you don't believe that your governements aren't using you as guinea pigs testing shit on you without your knowledge, I recommend that you watch History Channel's Declassified: Human Experimentation (anyone who wants to bother watching this, message me and I'll give you the torrent links to download the movie) or read this to see what they've been doing http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/experiments.htm

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but at least I don't have the blinkers on to what is happening

[Benjie]

If those are your children in your avatar, I can hardly believe that you won't allow them to get vaccinations but are perfectly fine with having a dog lick their face as a baby.

Again there are billions of vaccinated people, huge amount of documentation regarding it, a few videos about vivisection aren't going to change the majority of peoples minds.

Chemtrails....

[MsFigure]

If those are your children in your avatar, I can hardly believe that you won't allow them to get vaccinations but are perfectly fine with having a dog lick their face as a baby.

Again there are billions of vaccinated people, huge amount of documentation regarding it, a few videos about vivisection aren't going to change the majority of peoples minds.

Chemtrails....

That's my child and my dogs and she's healthier than 99% of children we know and come in contact with, even though our dogs lick her face once in a while.... oh and don't make her wash her hands after she plays with them either, and guess what? with the exception of the seasonal flu, she is never sick even when everyone else around her is

CHEMTRAILS?? well the american government have recently admitted to doing it... also did you know:

Plutonium Experiments

During these experiments operatives injected people with plutonium without their knowledge at medical facilities across the country. In some cases, children were fed radioactive food. People who were receiving routine treatment at medical facilities were secretly injected with plutonium in Rochester, NY, San Francisco, CA, Cincinnati, OH, and in Tennessee. Sources:

"The Plutonium Files: America's Secret Medical Experiments in the Cold War" by Eileen Welsome, The Dial Press, 1999

The History Channel, "History Undercover: Declassified: Human Experimentation"

Secretary of Energy Hazel O'Leary Press Conference, July 12, 1993

Presedential Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments 1994-1995

Tuskegee Syphilis Study

From 1932-1972 The U.S Public Health Service conducted an experiment in the area of Tuskegee, Alabama. Over 400 black sharecroppers were deliberately infected with syphilis and monitored over decades including invasive medical tests. They were not told about the disease or the experiment and medical treatment, such as penicillin, was purposefully withheld. In 1997, President Clinton offered a long overdue apology to the surviving men who were used in the experiment.

Sources:

Congressional Hearings, 1973, Senator Kennedy

"Bad Blood", James H. Jones, Free Press, New York, 1981, 1993

Atomic Bomb Testing on U.S. Soldiers

From 1951-1963 thousands of U.S. soldiers were purposefully exposed to radiation during atomic bomb and H-bomb testing in Nevada and the Pacific. Atomic veterans have an exremely high cancer rate but it took the U.S. Government over 40 years to even acknowledge the experiments took place. In addition, a countless number of people, down wind of the Nevada test sites, were exposed to radioactive fallout in Nevada and Utah. From 1964-1970, 3000 school children in Washington County, Utah were used in thyroid studies by the Atomic Energy Commission without parental consent.

Sources:

The Atomic Veteran's Research Institute, Robert Campbell

The History Channel, "History Undercover: Declassified: Human Experimentation"

"Undue Risk: Secret State Experiments on Humans", Jonathan Moreno, Routledge, W. H. Freeman & Co., 2000

http://www.downwinders.org

http://www.naav.com

http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets

://http://www.downwinders.org

Chemical Weapons and Bacteria Experiments, U.S. Military

In the early 1950's the U.S. Military released bacteria from a boat outside San Francisco. The next day 11 people were admitted to the Stanford Medical Center with the same bacteria infection, one man died. The U.S. Military claimed the infections were unrelated. The following year the U.S. Military sprayed parts of Minneapolis, Minnesota with a dangerous chemical and subjected the children of Clinton Elementary School to Zinc Cadmium Sulfide. Chemicals were also dropped over the Leech Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota. In 1966 the U.S. Army released bacteria in a New York Subway experiment by dropping light bulbs when the doors opened. These tests occurred from 1949 until 1969. Experiments were also conducted in St. Louis, Missouri, Fort Wayne, Indiana and other cities.

Sources:

News Night Minnesota 5/25/95

KTCA TV, Minneapolis 1977

The History Channel, "History Undercover: Declassified: Human Experimentation"

"Clouds of Secrecy: The Army's Germ-Warfare Tests over Populated Areas", Leonard A. Cole, Rowman & Littlefield, 1988, 1990

"The Eleventh Plague: The Politics of Biological and Chemical Warfare", Leonard A. Cole, W. H. Freeman & Co., 1996, 1998

"Undue Risk: Secret State Experiments on Humans", Jonathan Moreno, Routledge, W. H. Freeman & Co., 2000

<a name="5">Human Drug Testing

In the 1950's and continuing until the 1970's, The CIA tested LSD on citizens, mental patients, prisoners and soldiers, many of them unsuspecting. Some citizens were drugged without their knowledge and put under surveillance. The U.S. Army Chemical Corps also tested drugs such as LSD and mescaline on all of these groups. This included a group of 1500 soldiers that were tested with LSD and 2800 soldiers that were tested with BZ.

Sources:

Congressional Hearings, Human Drug Testing by The CIA, 1975-1977

The History Channel, "History's Mysteries: Getting High: A History of LSD"

"Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, The Sixties and Beyond", Martin Lee, Bruce Shlain, Grove Press, 1986

[MsFigure]

Here's the video of The History Channel's "History Undercover: Declassified: Human Experimentation"

Declassified: Human Experimentation

If you refuse to believe that government and some of the medical community would never lie to you, watch this to see just a couple of the things that have been done to not only adults but to innocent children.

If you want to keep on believing the lies and not learn what has happened in the past and still continues to happen, don't watch it

[bkkjames]

Here's the video of The History Channel's "History Undercover: Declassified: Human Experimentation"

Declassified: Human Experimentation

If you refuse to believe that government and some of the medical community would never lie to you, watch this to see just a couple of the things that have been done to not only adults but to innocent children.

If you want to keep on believing the lies and not learn what has happened in the past and still continues to happen, don't watch it

A good debate. One question for you though. How old are you? Were you immunized as a child? If so, you have lived this long - apparently without any obvious side effects besides paranoia. jk

[scorecard]

I have another experience to share on this.

My Thai son's wife (who is not very wordly) took their young daughter to a local clinic to start the vaccination process.

She came home and told my husband that the doctor and staff were very porofessional beacuse they won't allow the parents to come into the treatment room where they actually give the injections.

My son was horrified and 'instructed' his wife as to how to take care of this in the future:

- No local clinics, only bigger reputable hospitals.

- Must be discussed with a childrens doctor before hand (and if old style Thai doctor approach - meaning patient not allowed to ask questions, then don't proceed).

- Mother or father or both must be in the room at all times.

- Insist on checking the use by date on the vaccination packaging.

A distant relative had this experience at a hospital in Essan, insisted on checking the date and found the vaccination the doctor was about to use was two years past use by date, and doctor was angry when the father noticed the date and stopped the doctor from proceeding.

After first attempt with mother only takng daughter to the local clinic, about a week later my son and his wife went to a local hospital to try to get on with the vaccinations of their daughter and the female Thai doctor told my son he was rude and had no respect by asking questions. My son's wife was shocked when my son stood up, told his wife that they were leaving, not one word to the doctor, just walked out. Son found another hospital where they now go for all injections.

The mother now won't go alone and both parents now go for any doctor / hospital visits for their daughter.

I'm also happy that my Thai son (28 years old) does not take the 'never mind' / doctor always knows best appraoch. He's always very polite but he insists on asking his questions and has no hesitation to stop the proceedings if he's not satisfied.