Pattaya Whats The Attraction ?

[thaimate]

I tend to believe most of your comments, JR Texas, but there is an old saying... "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

I do believe that applies to Thai people in general and business in particular. It must be frustrating to know what could and should be done... but isn't. I can see similarities in the way our government in Canada operates in many bureaucracies. It frustrates the bejazzus out of me, but there is nothing I can do about it.

Time will take care of the current woes - but the problem is that Thailand keeps the negatives in the news - ongoing problems - murders of foreigners, red vs. yellow fighting, continuous changes in visa requirements, etc. IMO, if they would just let the dust settle, more and more tourists would start to come again.

I realize that tourism and buisness from outside does matter to Thailand as a whole ,but i get the immpresion that the HI SO Thais at the top couldnt care less as long as their rice bowls are full

[NanLaew]

^ I would not just say it's the hi-so that are self-serving. I would include the swelling ranks at the low-end of the upper-class and all local government types. There's no real middle-class in Thailand is there? It seems like they skipped that developmental stage but that comes with rapid globalization and is not unique to LOS.

Oops! Off topic again!

Edited July 28, 2009 by NanLaew

[tropo]

We've managed to keep this thread open for 8 pages and nearly 200 replies.

Well done guys (and girls)!

[JR Texas]

I realize that tourism and buisness from outside does matter to Thailand as a whole ,but i get the immpresion that the HI SO Thais at the top couldnt care less as long as their rice bowls are full

test

[JR Texas]

I tend to believe most of your comments, JR Texas, but there is an old saying... "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

I do believe that applies to Thai people in general and business in particular. It must be frustrating to know what could and should be done... but isn't. I can see similarities in the way our government in Canada operates in many bureaucracies. It frustrates the bejazzus out of me, but there is nothing I can do about it.

Time will take care of the current woes - but the problem is that Thailand keeps the negatives in the news - ongoing problems - murders of foreigners, red vs. yellow fighting, continuous changes in visa requirements, etc. IMO, if they would just let the dust settle, more and more tourists would start to come again.

I realize that tourism and buisness from outside does matter to Thailand as a whole ,but i get the immpresion that the HI SO Thais at the top couldnt care less as long as their rice bowls are full

Does anybody know how I can delete the quote from venturalaw and ianforbes, leave the quote by thaimate and respond to that? I just can't figure this system out.

[thaimate]

No, but go on respond anyway

[JR Texas]

Does anybody know how I can delete the quote from venturalaw and ianforbes, leave the quote by thaimate and respond to that? I just can't figure this system out.

Think I just did it.........you delete everything from the beginning quote at the top of the first line to the end quote.......the one with the slash before it. Lets see if it worked.

Now.........Pattaya: What is the Attraction? The bar scene with the "where you goes."

I think if you take that away, the city will go under.

It will become boring as hel_l.

Maybe some of the "edge" has been lost with all of the new development schemes.

[tropo]

I realize that tourism and buisness from outside does matter to Thailand as a whole ,but i get the immpresion that the HI SO Thais at the top couldnt care less as long as their rice bowls are full

Does anybody know how I can delete the quote from venturalaw and ianforbes, leave the quote by thaimate and respond to that? I just can't figure this system out.

Just delete the last 2 "quote name =" boxes (with the names you wish to delete) and the first 2 "/quote" boxes. Make sure you match the "quote name" boxes with and equal number of "/quote" boxes.

[JR Texas]

Just delete the last 2 "quote name =" boxes (with the names you wish to delete) and the first 2 "/quote" boxes. Make sure you match the "quote name" boxes with and equal number of "/quote" boxes.

If that worked, thanks.

[IanForbes]

Does anybody know how I can delete the quote from venturalaw and ianforbes, leave the quote by thaimate and respond to that? I just can't figure this system out.

You can do it easily with script, but it's more complicated with photos. Just make sure there are even numbers of the "quote" notations. Reply to the whole topic but then Highlite the part you want taken out and hit the delete button

That is exactly what I did with your post.

You can always retype the quotation box if you've taken out one too many

Edited July 29, 2009 by IanForbes

[thaibeachlovers]

Well, someone in Pattaya thinks it's going to be a great high season.

The 3 bar beers next to the Apex Hotel that closed recently are being renovated.

All around Pattaya are far too many Bar Beers with no customers, and they are opening more!

Are they fronts for money laundering, or just "dreams"?

[Tolley]

Well, someone in Pattaya thinks it's going to be a great high season.

The 3 bar beers next to the Apex Hotel that closed recently are being renovated.

All around Pattaya are far too many Bar Beers with no customers, and they are opening more!

Are they fronts for money laundering, or just "dreams"?

Despite what some posters might think Pattaya is dead as a dodo.

There are pockets of activity and Walking St at various times and for some of the key businesses is still doing okay but generally hotels are near empty as are most of the beer bar areas and even the traffic is less than usual.

Personally i don't mind but it is awfully quiet even for a low season.

[tropo]

Despite what some posters might think Pattaya is dead as a dodo.

You should get out more.

[rgs2001uk]

Well, someone in Pattaya thinks it's going to be a great high season.

The 3 bar beers next to the Apex Hotel that closed recently are being renovated.

All around Pattaya are far too many Bar Beers with no customers, and they are opening more!

Are they fronts for money laundering, or just "dreams"?

I think they suffer from the, if I build it they will come, mentality.

Just as Pattaya isnt Thailand, Walking St isnt Pattaya.

Last week I walked from soi LK Metro/ soi Buakhao area to the far end of Walking St.

I wont mention the names of bars, those who live in Pattaya will have an idea.

Soi Lk Metro, dead, only one bar seems to be doing any business, mainly due to an excellent landlord and reasonable prices, frequented mainly by expats or frequent visitors to the area.

Other bar owners in this area, if you arent going to be at your investment, tell your staff not to turn up Thai music to deafening volumes in an attempt to draw customers, all it does is drive them away.

Soi Buakhao, pretty dead, couple of the cheaper bars had some people in.

Walked down soi Yamato, one bar had one customer in it, another bar had 4 people in it (all Pattaya residents). Rest of soi dead.

Onwards to Beach rd, plenty of shoppers humping bags of shopping, couple of outside beer bars had some customers. Crossed over to the sea side of Beach Rd, my God, what a sight for sore eyes, again plenty of tourists, mainly arabs walking, either unaware or oblivious to what was taking place in front of their eyes.

The farang sat on the benches looked like refugees from Bosnia, supping from large bottles of Chang they had obviously bought at the nearest 7-11. They certainly werent of the hansum man category, jeez oh gents, get a haircut and shave (shouldnt cost more than 100 baht) and ditch the rags, get some decnt clothes.

Next stop Walking St itself, cant argue with those who post, plenty of activity on the street, thats the problem, all the traffic is on the street, not in the bars.

One of the older more established bars (been there for years) was empty, not one customer in it, Another bar further on up on the rh side was about 1/3rd full, another bar with an Irish name was dead.

Didnt have the opportunity to check put the air hostess bar, some nice looking girls outside though, maybe next time.

Walking St was largely taken up by tourists, voyeurs or rubber neckers, strolling down the street with mobile on camera mode, or actual camcorders recording as they walked up and down.

Cant comment on discos, I dont frequent them, so unable to offer any comment.

Funnily enough one area that seemed to be thriving was in south Pattaya between second and third road, where the market is by the wat (cant remember its name). The lower end of the market, Thai whisky and coke for 40 baht, changs for 40 baht, room for rent 450 baht per night, that end of the market seemed to be busy with plenty of those with less spending money.

On the way back passed Pattayaland, a few bars had a few customers in, again the older established bars, with none of the my shit dont stink attitude girls.

Some of the other bars would do as well to actually get rid of some of the meeters and greeters, their attitude and looks probably drives away more than it attracts.

Some of the hotel breakfasts were down to the bare bones, hardly anyone eating, where are the guests?

The above observations were of last weekend in Pattaya, unless the baht has nosedived I cant see it being much different now.

Another tip for some of these bar owners, its not your location thats giving you problems, its your staff and pricing, sorry over 100 baht for a lady drink is taking the piss, where are all the pretty girls? the ones that are left aint doing your business any good, in fact business may increase if you got rid of these girls.

I have no property or business ventures in Pattaya, so may see things in a different light to others.

[JR Texas]

I think they suffer from the, if I build it they will come, mentality.

Just as Pattaya isnt Thailand, Walking St isnt Pattaya.

Last week I walked from soi LK Metro/ soi Buakhao area to the far end of Walking St.

I wont mention the names of bars, those who live in Pattaya will have an idea.

Soi Lk Metro, dead, only one bar seems to be doing any business, mainly due to an excellent landlord and reasonable prices, frequented mainly by expats or frequent visitors to the area.

Other bar owners in this area, if you arent going to be at your investment, tell your staff not to turn up Thai music to deafening volumes in an attempt to draw customers, all it does is drive them away.

Soi Buakhao, pretty dead, couple of the cheaper bars had some people in.

Walked down soi Yamato, one bar had one customer in it, another bar had 4 people in it (all Pattaya residents). Rest of soi dead.

Onwards to Beach rd, plenty of shoppers humping bags of shopping, couple of outside beer bars had some customers. Crossed over to the sea side of Beach Rd, my God, what a sight for sore eyes, again plenty of tourists, mainly arabs walking, either unaware or oblivious to what was taking place in front of their eyes.

The farang sat on the benches looked like refugees from Bosnia, supping from large bottles of Chang they had obviously bought at the nearest 7-11. They certainly werent of the hansum man category, jeez oh gents, get a haircut and shave (shouldnt cost more than 100 baht) and ditch the rags, get some decnt clothes.

Next stop Walking St itself, cant argue with those who post, plenty of activity on the street, thats the problem, all the traffic is on the street, not in the bars.

One of the older more established bars (been there for years) was empty, not one customer in it, Another bar further on up on the rh side was about 1/3rd full, another bar with an Irish name was dead.

Didnt have the opportunity to check put the air hostess bar, some nice looking girls outside though, maybe next time.

Walking St was largely taken up by tourists, voyeurs or rubber neckers, strolling down the street with mobile on camera mode, or actual camcorders recording as they walked up and down.

Cant comment on discos, I dont frequent them, so unable to offer any comment.

Funnily enough one area that seemed to be thriving was in south Pattaya between second and third road, where the market is by the wat (cant remember its name). The lower end of the market, Thai whisky and coke for 40 baht, changs for 40 baht, room for rent 450 baht per night, that end of the market seemed to be busy with plenty of those with less spending money.

On the way back passed Pattayaland, a few bars had a few customers in, again the older established bars, with none of the my shit dont stink attitude girls.

Some of the other bars would do as well to actually get rid of some of the meeters and greeters, their attitude and looks probably drives away more than it attracts.

Some of the hotel breakfasts were down to the bare bones, hardly anyone eating, where are the guests?

The above observations were of last weekend in Pattaya, unless the baht has nosedived I cant see it being much different now.

Another tip for some of these bar owners, its not your location thats giving you problems, its your staff and pricing, sorry over 100 baht for a lady drink is taking the piss, where are all the pretty girls? the ones that are left aint doing your business any good, in fact business may increase if you got rid of these girls.

I have no property or business ventures in Pattaya, so may see things in a different light to others.

Another interesting observation and telling given you covered a lot of area (statistically speaking, you just did a rapid scan sample covering enough area to be statistically significant).

Tourism is down.......no doubt about it. A few places are still doing OK. Most are not. What I would like to know is this: If this is the low season of all low seasons, why are hotel prices still high?

Where are the discounts? Other posters have talked about "bargains" in Bali and Malaysia now (where tourism is up)......they have said Thailand is no longer "cheap and fun." Well, maybe fun, but certainly not the bargain it was.

The social engineering experiment has clearly failed..........I just can't see how these businesses are going to survive, especially given that (IMHO) the high season will be a low season.

Maybe they think the Chinese investment scheme will save them.........or that loads of Indian tourists will bail them out. If I were running the show, I would widen the tourism net to include every person with a buck in their pocket: low income, middle income, high income.

They have to start facing reality and that means reducing prices significantly to what they were back around ten years ago.......if that does not happen, it is not going to be good given the global economic downturn.

People are increasingly paying attention to how much money they are spending.

[thaimate]

One thing i fail to understand is ,that we are constantly being told that a high baht means that imports are cheaper.why then are so many imported goods ,ie nivea underarm deoderant ,marmite and other "farang goods" now so expensive? all seem to have increased in price quite a lot in the last few months.

[tropo]

One thing i fail to understand is ,that we are constantly being told that a high baht means that imports are cheaper.why then are so many imported goods ,ie nivea underarm deoderant ,marmite and other "farang goods" now so expensive? all seem to have increased in price quite a lot in the last few months.

That's not surprising. Imported items are luxury items bought by people who can afford them. If customers are used to paying a certain price, why reduce them?

If the baht is stronger and items get cheaper for the importers it's their bonus. Reducing prices by a few baht here and there will not increase sales.

[rgs2001uk]

I think they suffer from the, if I build it they will come, mentality.

Just as Pattaya isnt Thailand, Walking St isnt Pattaya.

Last week I walked from soi LK Metro/ soi Buakhao area to the far end of Walking St.

I wont mention the names of bars, those who live in Pattaya will have an idea.

Soi Lk Metro, dead, only one bar seems to be doing any business, mainly due to an excellent landlord and reasonable prices, frequented mainly by expats or frequent visitors to the area.

Other bar owners in this area, if you arent going to be at your investment, tell your staff not to turn up Thai music to deafening volumes in an attempt to draw customers, all it does is drive them away.

Soi Buakhao, pretty dead, couple of the cheaper bars had some people in.

Walked down soi Yamato, one bar had one customer in it, another bar had 4 people in it (all Pattaya residents). Rest of soi dead.

Onwards to Beach rd, plenty of shoppers humping bags of shopping, couple of outside beer bars had some customers. Crossed over to the sea side of Beach Rd, my God, what a sight for sore eyes, again plenty of tourists, mainly arabs walking, either unaware or oblivious to what was taking place in front of their eyes.

The farang sat on the benches looked like refugees from Bosnia, supping from large bottles of Chang they had obviously bought at the nearest 7-11. They certainly werent of the hansum man category, jeez oh gents, get a haircut and shave (shouldnt cost more than 100 baht) and ditch the rags, get some decnt clothes.

Next stop Walking St itself, cant argue with those who post, plenty of activity on the street, thats the problem, all the traffic is on the street, not in the bars.

One of the older more established bars (been there for years) was empty, not one customer in it, Another bar further on up on the rh side was about 1/3rd full, another bar with an Irish name was dead.

Didnt have the opportunity to check put the air hostess bar, some nice looking girls outside though, maybe next time.

Walking St was largely taken up by tourists, voyeurs or rubber neckers, strolling down the street with mobile on camera mode, or actual camcorders recording as they walked up and down.

Cant comment on discos, I dont frequent them, so unable to offer any comment.

Funnily enough one area that seemed to be thriving was in south Pattaya between second and third road, where the market is by the wat (cant remember its name). The lower end of the market, Thai whisky and coke for 40 baht, changs for 40 baht, room for rent 450 baht per night, that end of the market seemed to be busy with plenty of those with less spending money.

On the way back passed Pattayaland, a few bars had a few customers in, again the older established bars, with none of the my shit dont stink attitude girls.

Some of the other bars would do as well to actually get rid of some of the meeters and greeters, their attitude and looks probably drives away more than it attracts.

Some of the hotel breakfasts were down to the bare bones, hardly anyone eating, where are the guests?

The above observations were of last weekend in Pattaya, unless the baht has nosedived I cant see it being much different now.

Another tip for some of these bar owners, its not your location thats giving you problems, its your staff and pricing, sorry over 100 baht for a lady drink is taking the piss, where are all the pretty girls? the ones that are left aint doing your business any good, in fact business may increase if you got rid of these girls.

I have no property or business ventures in Pattaya, so may see things in a different light to others.

Another interesting observation and telling given you covered a lot of area (statistically speaking, you just did a rapid scan sample covering enough area to be statistically significant).

Tourism is down.......no doubt about it. A few places are still doing OK. Most are not. What I would like to know is this: If this is the low season of all low seasons, why are hotel prices still high?

Where are the discounts? Other posters have talked about "bargains" in Bali and Malaysia now (where tourism is up)......they have said Thailand is no longer "cheap and fun." Well, maybe fun, but certainly not the bargain it was.

The social engineering experiment has clearly failed..........I just can't see how these businesses are going to survive, especially given that (IMHO) the high season will be a low season.

Maybe they think the Chinese investment scheme will save them.........or that loads of Indian tourists will bail them out. If I were running the show, I would widen the tourism net to include every person with a buck in their pocket: low income, middle income, high income.

They have to start facing reality and that means reducing prices significantly to what they were back around ten years ago.......if that does not happen, it is not going to be good given the global economic downturn.

People are increasingly paying attention to how much money they are spending.

JR,

this was no rapid scan, but done over a period of 4 days, although not always the same route at the same time each day.

Yes tourism is down, but I doubt if reducing hotel prices would make any difference, if people aint got the money they aint got the money, simple as that, its called a recession.

I think for bang for buck Pattaya is still a cheap destination, if one is selective.

There are certain hotels that could reduce their rates by as much as 50% and I still wouldnt stay in them, Hard Rock cafe springs to mind.

Other hotels I feel still offer value for money, and to be honest arent that much more expensive than they were 10 years ago. What is hurting these places are the near 50 baht to the $ or the over 80 baht to the £ brigade.

Lets say a hotel cost 750 baht per night 10 years ago or $15 per night, the same hotel may now be 1,000 baht per night, an increase of 33 1/3% over 10 years, or 3 1/3% per year, not exactly gouging anyone, and probably in line with inflation, in some cases not even keeping pace.

The same hotel now in $ pricing is about $30 a night, or an increase of 100%, its not the hotels to blame for currency fluctuations.

Pattaya failed in its own way by getting greedy, it was lulled into a false sense of security by the 2 week millionaires. Look at some of the property projects and the high end hotel ventures.

However Pattaya also suffered from central government intervention, a la the weeding out of what some would call visa runners, that is of course a topic on its own, some would argue these people were only taking advantage of existing laws, the problem is these laws are now in place, affecting not just Pattaya but others parts of Thailand.

Some say they arent interested in Pattaya 5 10 or 15 years ago, but what are they comparing present day Pattaya to.

Personally I thing the amount of tourists for this time of year is on a par with say 15 years ago, and certainly on a par with pre the 1997/98 baht crash.

Chinese tourists were usually to found in any great number around the time of Chinese New Year, yes there were always Indian and Arab tourists, if anything I would say their numbers are up.

Funnily enough one area I noticed that seemed to be busy was the collection of bars at south Pattaya.

The area of Pattaya I thought was doing well was the bottom end of the market, the nickel and dime brigade, but that end of the market will always survive, these places know if they increase their prices they will drive their customer base away, they seem to thrive on the low profit high turnover outlook, that in my opinion is what is killing some of the other establishmets, pure unadulterated greed, treat your customers like shit, now cry because people go elsewhere.

I am no at the high end of the market, so cant comment on those hotels or establishments.

The trouble Pattaya now has, the long stay expats have basically been booted out, well thats come back to bite the planners in the ass, there is no one taking their place, the guys that lived here all year round were basically despised and derided by the get rich quick brigade, lets get rid off the riff raff and reinvent the wheel, turn Thailand and Pattaya into something its not, a rich mans playground.

Remember the rumours from a few years ago, say about 5, about the casino that was going to be built, and how everyone was going to get rich, property speculation etc etc, all the rich Chinese and high rollers would be giving Maccau and Singapore a miss and heading straight for Pattaya.

Thailand needs to attract back the ones it basically decided it didnt need, but how many will come back, I know of 3 guys who have now set up camp across the border and have no intetion of coming back even if they could.

A 7 day extension on a visa doesnt cut it, relax the visa requirments, give people 90 days instead of 60 days, allow them to extend by another 30 days, but that would reduce a whole strata of bureaucracy, pen pushers sat idle, can you imagine the outcome.

People are paying attention to not only what they are spending, but where they are spending it.

Earlier this year I had to visit Phuket, to empty a friends rented acommodation, he and his wife rented a condo all year round, storing diving equipment etc, well after losing thousands in lost earnings because of the airport fiasco last year, guess what, they aint coming back here ever, and these were no budget tourists.

Others I know got so fed up with the immigration officers sat picking their noses at immigration on arrival and waiting upwards of 2 hours to clear, they decided after nearly 15 hours of flying they dont need the hassle anymore, all they wanted was get to the hotel have a shower and crash out, guess what, they also aint coming back. Again professional people, not budget travellers.

Far from reducing prices on the national carrier,its carry on as normal, bury your head in the sand.

Sort out how you treat your tourists and encourage them to come back, still I suppose from every one who decides to go elsewhere another 5 are waiting to take their place, it dont work like that anymore.

Sort out your ideas, dont draw out the old Amazing Thailand slogan from 10 years ago, jeez is it almost 20 years ago now when they had the visit thailand campaign?

20 years on and nothing has changed, deja vu all over again.

[tropo]

There are certain hotels that could reduce their rates by as much as 50% and I still wouldnt stay in them, Hard Rock cafe springs to mind.

Other hotels I feel still offer value for money, and to be honest arent that much more expensive than they were 10 years ago. What is hurting these places are the near 50 baht to the $ or the over 80 baht to the £ brigade.

Lets say a hotel cost 750 baht per night 10 years ago or $15 per night, the same hotel may now be 1,000 baht per night, an increase of 33 1/3% over 10 years, or 3 1/3% per year, not exactly gouging anyone, and probably in line with inflation, in some cases not even keeping pace.

The same hotel now in $ pricing is about $30 a night, or an increase of 100%, its not the hotels to blame for currency fluctuations.

Some hotels are reducing their rates to capture business. One example is the LK Metropole Hotel which is currently offering 50-70% discounts on room rates for one month stays.

Edited July 29, 2009 by tropo

[NanLaew]

I think they suffer from the, if I build it they will come, mentality.

Just as Pattaya isnt Thailand, Walking St isnt Pattaya.

Last week I walked...

I have no property or business ventures in Pattaya, so may see things in a different light to others.

JR,

this was no rapid scan, but done over a period of 4 days....

20 years on and nothing has changed, deja vu all over again.

rgs, after all that yakking, you still didn't address the OP's question? What's the attraction? What attracts YOU to Pattaya?

Answer on a postcard please to...

PS. There's a really sexy thread languishing on page 2 (maybe 3 by now) where you can debate Pattaya's self-inflicted wounds, zoning laws, environmental awareness, superb infrastructure, indolent bar staff, graft, price of fish, aesthetic quality of foreign senior citizens, etc..

[JR Texas]

I think they suffer from the, if I build it they will come, mentality.

Just as Pattaya isnt Thailand, Walking St isnt Pattaya.

Last week I walked...

I have no property or business ventures in Pattaya, so may see things in a different light to others.

JR,

this was no rapid scan, but done over a period of 4 days....

20 years on and nothing has changed, deja vu all over again.

rgs, after all that yakking, you still didn't address the OP's question? What's the attraction? What attracts YOU to Pattaya?

Answer on a postcard please to...

PS. There's a really sexy thread languishing on page 2 (maybe 3 by now) where you can debate Pattaya's self-inflicted wounds, zoning laws, environmental awareness, superb infrastructure, indolent bar staff, graft, price of fish, aesthetic quality of foreign senior citizens, etc..

If done over a period of 4 days it is even more valid.

If somebody is asking me again what the attraction is, let me say, once again, I was the sixth poster on this topic and state the attractions there:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pattaya-What...79#entry2880279

It is not a terrible place.........I am just frustrated with the negative changes........I think very bad decisions are being made in terms of development.

[thaimate]

Actually J.R Texas

i dont think that there are any "decisions" being made regarding development in Pattaya,those at the top do not seem to have a clue about what Pattaya should or wants to be ,they seem to constantly change their minds ,high end customers ,low end customers or any and all of the above .to my mind it seems as long as they can grab as much money as they can ,they are happy .

i have always said that what my old granny used to say about people who got "above" themselves applies to Pattaya perfectly "All fur coat and no knickers " IF it tries to go upmarket ,thats all it will ever be .

Still ime not complaining.

[NanLaew]

^ Agreed. So in your case thaimate, the lack of zoning laws is a PLUS.

^^ No, no JR, we have your statement on record and it's much appreciated. It was rgs2001uk's two long-winded posts on just about everything EXCEPT what he finds attractive about Pattaya that I was seeking to address.

(As well as secretly hoping to get a bump to my thread)

[JR Texas]

Actually J.R Texas

i dont think that there are any "decisions" being made regarding development in Pattaya,those at the top do not seem to have a clue about what Pattaya should or wants to be ,they seem to constantly change their minds ,high end customers ,low end customers or any and all of the above .to my mind it seems as long as they can grab as much money as they can ,they are happy .

i have always said that what my old granny used to say about people who got "above" themselves applies to Pattaya perfectly "All fur coat and no knickers " IF it tries to go upmarket ,thats all it will ever be .

Still ime not complaining.

Certainly social engineering is happening via the visa/immigration changes over the past ten years. There is also social engineering via an image change--from "where you goes land" to "family resort." Another huge mistake.

They are trying very hard to get rid of the bulk of their tourism base (lower to middle class) and replace them with a tiny fraction of any tourism base in any country (with the exception of Monaco).

The idea is crazy........it has caused many expats (lets call them long stay tourists) to leave to other places, with their money and businesses. Many of those people were essential (their spending that is) during the low season.

Simply allowing so many concrete coffins to be built--fancy coffins or not--is yet another mistake based on decisions made at City Hall.

There are people who seriously want to remove all of the bars and send the girls back to Issan..........many have been removed over the past ten years.

There used to be a large complex of bars that is now all but gone around Soi 9 (if memory serves).

I have not seen or heard of any change in focus from high end (they call them quality tourists) to anything else that would make monetary sense.

I do agree that they don't have a clue......clueless..........nothing between the ears........in a self-destructive mode.

[JR Texas]

^ Agreed. So in your case thaimate, the lack of zoning laws is a PLUS.

^^ No, no JR, we have your statement on record and it's much appreciated. It was rgs2001uk's two long-winded posts on just about everything EXCEPT what he finds attractive about Pattaya that I was seeking to address.

(As well as secretly hoping to get a bump to my thread)

Just wanted to post this for all the folks that keep insisting the Philippines doesn't have tourists and is a bad place (looks like Malaysia, Bali and the Philippines are doing much better than Thailand.......why?):

from this link: http://www.propertyarticles.com/overseas/20090429377.html

Philippines tourism bucks downturn

Wednesday, 29 April 2009 11:37 Overseas

Despite the downturn tourists have flocked to the Philippines in greater numbers this year, boosting the country’s burgeoning resort sector.

Over the first quarter of 2009 tourist arrivals to the South East Asian island nation rose by a staggering 51 percent to 1.3 million people compared to 858,244 during the same period last year, according to the Philippines Department of Tourism (PDoT).

Growing demand has led to a shortage of the best accommodation, increasing occupancy rates and resort yields. Commenting on the PDoT’s figures, the director of the Hotel and Restaurant Association of the Philippines, Rene C. Baltasar, has been reported to have said the country was getting up-market tourists but there was a lack of rooms compared to its regional rivals.

John Scott, from hotel investment specialist Asset Property Brokers, said: “Philippines tourism is doing extremely well thanks to a combination of attractive locations, culture and climate, and value that undercuts rivals.

“This together with a restricted supply of high-quality accommodation ensures high occupancy rates and yields for well managed resorts with the right facilities and location.”

Cebu was the most popular destination accounting for 32 percent of tourists, the PDoT reported.

[rgs2001uk]

^ Agreed. So in your case thaimate, the lack of zoning laws is a PLUS.

^^ No, no JR, we have your statement on record and it's much appreciated. It was rgs2001uk's two long-winded posts on just about everything EXCEPT what he finds attractive about Pattaya that I was seeking to address.

(As well as secretly hoping to get a bump to my thread)

NL, to address what I find attractive, value for money, golf, and the most attractive of all, the freedom to come and go as I please, as I said before I have no ventures that restrict me to Pattaya.

I appreciate there may be others not as fortunate.

[NanLaew]

^ Another 3 +'s for Pattaya City

Thanks!

[Tolley]

No matter how big the downturn is there are still suckers out there buying bars.

I just tried to talk someone out of buying a bar in the newer side of soi 8.

He didn't listen to me despite the fact that most of the bars over there are empty most nights.

He has paid 400K baht for one of those shoebox bars on the righthand side as you walk down the soi off second road.

Burning money for nothing but hey he wants to own a bar.

At least this shows that no matter how bad things get at least there are a few people out there willing to contribute to the Thai economy.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Tolley

[Ulysses G.]

Over the first quarter of 2009 tourist arrivals to the South East Asian island nation rose by a staggering 51 percent to 1.3 million people compared to 858,244 during the same period last year, according to the Philippines Department of Tourism (PDoT).

"According to the Philippines Department of Tourism". Snicker, snicker.

[thaimate]

^ Agreed. So in your case thaimate, the lack of zoning laws is a PLUS.

^^ No, no JR, we have your statement on record and it's much appreciated. It was rgs2001uk's two long-winded posts on just about everything EXCEPT what he finds attractive about Pattaya that I was seeking to address.

(As well as secretly hoping to get a bump to my thread)

Sorry ,cant remember ever commenting on zoning laws!!