Thai Gf Parents Want Money Cos We Are "engaged" - We Are Not

[SNGLIFE]

Your snide "short yellow bus" comments notwithstanding, there is a tendancy amongst some foreigners, as reflected by your original comments, that lving with a Thai wife in a small Issan village somehow makes them superior and "more Thai" than the rest of us living here.  Sorry, but that one aspect of Thai life is neither more "Thai" nor more superior to any other.  

I have been to visit villages throughout Thailand, and I have met foreign men who are more than happy living there, breaking out the whiskey on Saturday night for all the men to enjoy, being some sort of honcho.  And there is nothng wrong with that.  Quite frankly, that would drive me bonkers, but to each  his own. 

But my life in Thonburi or others' in Pattaya or Hatyai or Chiang Rai or wherever are just as much a part of Thailand and Thai culutre as any other.  Issan is not the end-all of Thailand. But all these places togetehr make up this nation.  Just as all those other places you mentioned in your post make up the USA.  Las Vegas is the USA, as is NYC, as is Bayard, WV.  The problem, as I see it, is when you assume that all of any nation is like one small part of it, and that is pretty much what you did when you dismissed anyone who hasn't lived in a village.

FYI to help you in your future readings. You read too much into what isn't there. Full of extrapolations and incorrect assumptions. Cheers.

[PastEgo]

look

rent a limo, take her out to the best restaraunt you can afford

then go to a really good club get her a little merry - not wasted

do some dirty dancing up slow and personal

get her really hot

go to the toilets pop a viagra

get in the limi drive home

make sweet sweet passionate love to her

while she lies there with a beautiful smile on her angelic face

pack her things then rudely wake her up

tell her there you go your parents want to <deleted> with me you go back to them

kick her out

find a new g/f without stupid parents

[zzaa09]

It's lost on most blokes posting. Those who visit or remain in Thailand for years, still can't hold a conversation in Thai, never lived in a village, and rant on about how well they know Thailand and Thai people.

Not just the good posters in TV circles, this is a more common trait/mentality than not. Fanciful and illusive. Most can't get pass their 'ethocentrism' {as you say}. Humility is not a quality that is intuitive amongst these groups and reality becomes harder to grasp - so excuses and apologists are invented.

[DMasut]

Just a few thoughts:

As others have pointed out living together equals married in village eyes

People get married/live together because they love each other with a few exceptions. That doesnt vary between Thai or western.

When you marry you marry into a family as your wife or husband marries into yours as well and with that come some commitments (could be financial or not or emotional or things like learning the language) as well as some advantages (land inheritances for kids maybe, an opportuntiy to learn about real Thai culture, support from a family).

People seem to obsess about money. There are far more important things in life.

First there was sex for the sole purpose of mating...and recreation. No rules, no guidelines, just get the right parts in the right place and let nature take its course…no videos, books, Cosmopolitan or Oprah required.

Second, ownership of women between tribes and families as early methods to perpetuate the human race. Little is written on the walls of caves about love.

Third, 'civilized man' (I always like this term for its oxymoron) created a ritual of sharing his daughter through arrangement which became what we now know to be an "arranged marriage". a dowry, was to pay for the expenses of raising her. Though not politically correct to say, much like buying a head of cattle and paying for the cost of feed and care, as well as a little profit. Not much has changed in Isaan, India or other places where "arranged marriages" take place.

NOTE: TODAY, about 1/3 of the world's population is involved in some form of arranged marriage. India and surrounding nations 1.4 billion, some areas of China 1.5 Billion, Northern African nations of high Islamic belief, middle eastern nations...and it is not uncommon for girls past their mid 20's approaching 'old maid status" in Japan and Korea to ask their parents for help in arranging a suitable husband.

Fourth, The ritual became formalized by tribe leaders and early forms of government to record ancestry. Love between parties was a bonus, as the woman's primary role was to take care of home, children she provided for the man and work in the fields with the rest of the workers to sustain. Only up until the last several hundred years was the religious belief installed that polygamy was wrong. Until then it was always completely acceptable a man have as many wives as he could afford. Only Christianity beat it over our heads that it was wrong, even though many of the Old Testament characters such as Moses, Noah, etc. had several wives (bet your Vicar, Priest and Reverend failed to drive that subject home on Sunday)

It has evolved into a requirement by laws of many nations to be recognized as a legitimate marriage that parties register their marriage.

Fifth, The present day fairy tale that love is the primary reason for marriage was created to encourage men during the Victorian ages to marry one woman only and that love should carry them beyond their hardship. Hardly consolation for giving up other field workers.

The Knight in shining armor and Princess fairy tale concept of love is mostly a Disney story that was eaten up by western women, mostly American and British who believe a Princess becomes Queen and equally rules the kingdom... until she's pi++ed off divorces your As+ and takes here half that she didn't have before the marriage and the spends the rest of her life trying to get the other half from you using your children as hostages!!!!

OH! OH! OHHH!!!

But, as Walter Cronkite (God rest his soul said) "And That's the Way it is."

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Don't fall for the GF's family trap crap...but if you do... it is usually cheaper than the cost of an American or British woman...and MUCH CHEAPER THAN DIVORCING THEM!

Edited July 29, 2009 by DMasut

[Dakhar]

Just a few thoughts:

As others have pointed out living together equals married in village eyes

People get married/live together because they love each other with a few exceptions. That doesnt vary between Thai or western.

When you marry you marry into a family as your wife or husband marries into yours as well and with that come some commitments (could be financial or not or emotional or things like learning the language) as well as some advantages (land inheritances for kids maybe, an opportuntiy to learn about real Thai culture, support from a family).

People seem to obsess about money. There are far more important things in life.

First there was sex for the sole purpose of mating...and recreation. No rules, no guidelines, just get the right parts in the right place and let nature take its course…no videos, books, Cosmopolitan or Oprah required.

Second, ownership of women between tribes and families as early methods to perpetuate the human race. Little is written on the walls of caves about love.

Third, 'civilized man' (I always like this term for its oxymoron) created a ritual of sharing his daughter through arrangement which became what we now know to be an "arranged marriage". a dowry, was to pay for the expenses of raising her. Though not politically correct to say, much like buying a head of cattle and paying for the cost of feed and care, as well as a little profit. Not much has changed in Isaan, India or other places where "arranged marriages" take place.

NOTE: TODAY, about 1/3 of the world's population is involved in some form of arranged marriage. India and surrounding nations 1.4 billion, some areas of China 1.5 Billion, Northern African nations of high Islamic belief, middle eastern nations...and it is not uncommon for girls past their mid 20's approaching 'old maid status" in Japan and Korea to ask their parents for help in arranging a suitable husband.

Fourth, The ritual became formalized by tribe leaders and early forms of government to record ancestry. Love between parties was a bonus, as the woman's primary role was to take care of home, children she provided for the man and work in the fields with the rest of the workers to sustain. Only up until the last several hundred years was the religious belief installed that polygamy was wrong. Until then it was always completely acceptable a man have as many wives as he could afford. Only Christianity beat it over our heads that it was wrong, even though many of the Old Testament characters such as Moses, Noah, etc. had several wives (bet your Vicar, Priest and Reverend failed to drive that subject home on Sunday)

It has evolved into a requirement by laws of many nations to be recognized as a legitimate marriage that parties register their marriage.

Fifth, The present day fairy tale that love is the primary reason for marriage was created to encourage men during the Victorian ages to marry one woman only and that love should carry them beyond their hardship. Hardly consolation for giving up other field workers.

The Knight in shining armor and Princess fairy tale concept of love is mostly a Disney story that was eaten up by western women, mostly American and British who believe a Princess becomes Queen and equally rules the kingdom... until she's pi++ed off divorces your As+ and takes here half that she didn't have before the marriage and the spends the rest of her life trying to get the other half from you using your children as hostages!!!!

OH! OH! OHHH!!!

But, as Walter Cronkite (God rest his soul said) "And That's the Way it is."

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Don't fall for the GF's family trap crap...but if you do... it is usually cheaper than the cost of an American or British woman...and MUCH CHEAPER THAN DIVORCING THEM!

You forgot to mention in #5 how the Queen fattens up and doles out sex biannually, which the King doesn't really mind because she is so fat he would rather mount a cow.

I loved the show John & "Hate" Plus 8 it really put the reality of marital bliss.

[DMasut]

Uuuuugh! Get out of your box and change the paradigm!

In the West: THB 100k = small engagement ring

In Thailand: No engagement ring required at all! Just offer the same amount in cash and everything is bliss! If things are good with the family, you will get it back when nobody else is looking. If the family is dirt poor, maybe not - up to what her family really thinks about you and your sincerity.

To the OP: You have to understand TIT! This Is Thailand! In Thailand and especially in the village, if a guy so much as does the naughty with a girl, they MUST get married or at least engaged - IMMEDIATELY. It's the traditional family values and honor thing we used to have in the West. All that Pattaya loose and casual relationship behavior DOES NOT HAPPEN or APPLY in the village. Get with the program or really, you need to find another country. You are in Thailand. Thai rules apply, not yours.

They are Thai, but other than that, they are just like families back in the West. I am sure her family is being asked by others back in the village: "Hey, is that guy going to marry Nit or is she just his whore?". Your actions will answer that question for them.

When I married the wife in the village here is how it went:

For Sin Sod we put in 50,000 THB, the ring valued at about 200,000 THB (family heirloom of diamonds set to a new ring to fit my wife's finger), a few baht of gold that we had purchased over the 5 years we spent together before marriage, the deed to a 1 rai plot my wife purchased before we married.

At the end we received all of it back except for a 1/2 bt gold necklace we gave to grandma and about 15,000 bt we gave as a gift to grandma.

I paid for the wedding - this was a 3-day affair during which we never rain out of alcohol or food - total cost was about 100,000 maybe a tad more.

The family is poor, the parents have passed on, I give support monthly in small amounts to the grandmother, and help my brother and sister in-law make ends meet as necessary. Estimated at about 5,000 per month all-in.

The extended relatives used to try to ride the money train, but over the first couple of years we found a neat system - if they borrowed and didn't repay they were cut off. This was made clear up front. Most of them are now cut off. Works for me. Obviously in a true emergency I would consider helping even those who are cut off, but they don't know that.

Now THAT is the proper way it should happen. Good on you!

In my case, I made a promise to Mae and we just signed the papers. During our several months long courtship, with me being able to speak the language and understand the local culture, and with my wife having been "married" previously (an arranged "farmer's marriage" which she ended soon after), although Pa wanted some extra whiskey money, everyone agreed sin sot was unnecessary. Her daughter was happy with me and that was enough for Mae. I volunteered to remodel the old house as a show of my sincerity to be a good provider. Shortly thereafter, Mae became deathly ill and passed on before it was completed - but she passed on knowing I would take good care of her little girl which is all she wanted.

The village (mostly family, anyway) knew me well from participating in village activities (helped with building the local wat and a neighbor's house, gave good advice to settle disputes when asked, helped with farming, drove to the market in the wee hours of the mornings to pickup things for them to resell, etc., etc.). Heck, the remodel of the house gave many of them a much needed opportunity to work when a large farm decided to switch to a different crop which did not need their labor. I paid them all very good wages which helped many families get through a tough transition period. So, one could say that accumulated merit was more than enough sin sot for everyone to be happy.

So, surely ignorant flamers would say "You cheap bastard. You should have paid something like the rest of us.". To which I would respond: Reread this post. If my wife's family was in the West and I had done the same, would things be any different? No. Which is my point. So many falang have this unfounded notion that Thai families are so different from Western families. They are not. The language is different, some customs are different, but the people are exactly the same. Most falang cannot overcome the barrier which is their own ignorance and inability to shift the paradigm. The falang who are able to shift the paradigm are the ones who can "boast" that they understand Thais.

The difference between "us" and "them" is that there really is no difference other than our own ingrained ethnocentric perceptions and ignorance.

As for the family wanting to ride the gravy train, I did something similar to you. I offered a "pot" of THB 10,000 which anyone is welcome to borrow. However, it must be repaid before the next person can borrow. I haven't seen the money since it was all loaned out, and I have no idea who needs to repay. Perhaps my wife does, but whatever. The wife sends a food allowance to Pa of THB 3,000 monthly (he's been living in the remodeled old house with his new chick and new son) and we help little brother-in-law who never asks for much (but I sneak him more than the wife wants him to have - shame on me).

Cheeers!

THESE GUYS GOT IT RIGHT!

Look when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

If you find you weren't planning to go to Rome, and don't like it... RUN FORREST, RUN!!

You are not obligated to buy into something you don't want.

If you are SURE you found the one (requires several years in Thailand) then you will have observed and understand how Thai men deal with this same issue. You shouldn't be treated or act differently because you are farang.

[cyb]

Most Thai people often ask me - of past relationships with a Thai woman - 'But does she love you?'

If Thai people do not marry for love or have loving relationships, why on earth would they be asking if the g/f of the day loves me?

Weren't you aware G54? Asians dont know nor understand love .....not like we do, of course.

B.S and double B.S.

Come back when you know what you are talking about.

Didn't pick-up on the sarcasm smilies, Mate? Little serious, are we....??

Think it was more lack of sleep and p...ed off with the uk mate. sorry over reaction from me.

alls well that ends well i'm out of here and back in bkk saturday.

[DMasut]

Just a few thoughts:

As others have pointed out living together equals married in village eyes

People get married/live together because they love each other with a few exceptions. That doesnt vary between Thai or western.

When you marry you marry into a family as your wife or husband marries into yours as well and with that come some commitments (could be financial or not or emotional or things like learning the language) as well as some advantages (land inheritances for kids maybe, an opportuntiy to learn about real Thai culture, support from a family).

People seem to obsess about money. There are far more important things in life.

First there was sex for the sole purpose of mating...and recreation. No rules, no guidelines, just get the right parts in the right place and let nature take its course…no videos, books, Cosmopolitan or Oprah required.

Second, ownership of women between tribes and families as early methods to perpetuate the human race. Little is written on the walls of caves about love.

Third, 'civilized man' (I always like this term for its oxymoron) created a ritual of sharing his daughter through arrangement which became what we now know to be an "arranged marriage". a dowry, was to pay for the expenses of raising her. Though not politically correct to say, much like buying a head of cattle and paying for the cost of feed and care, as well as a little profit. Not much has changed in Isaan, India or other places where "arranged marriages" take place.

NOTE: TODAY, about 1/3 of the world's population is involved in some form of arranged marriage. India and surrounding nations 1.4 billion, some areas of China 1.5 Billion, Northern African nations of high Islamic belief, middle eastern nations...and it is not uncommon for girls past their mid 20's approaching 'old maid status" in Japan and Korea to ask their parents for help in arranging a suitable husband.

Fourth, The ritual became formalized by tribe leaders and early forms of government to record ancestry. Love between parties was a bonus, as the woman's primary role was to take care of home, children she provided for the man and work in the fields with the rest of the workers to sustain. Only up until the last several hundred years was the religious belief installed that polygamy was wrong. Until then it was always completely acceptable a man have as many wives as he could afford. Only Christianity beat it over our heads that it was wrong, even though many of the Old Testament characters such as Moses, Noah, etc. had several wives (bet your Vicar, Priest and Reverend failed to drive that subject home on Sunday)

It has evolved into a requirement by laws of many nations to be recognized as a legitimate marriage that parties register their marriage.

Fifth, The present day fairy tale that love is the primary reason for marriage was created to encourage men during the Victorian ages to marry one woman only and that love should carry them beyond their hardship. Hardly consolation for giving up other field workers.

The Knight in shining armor and Princess fairy tale concept of love is mostly a Disney story that was eaten up by western women, mostly American and British who believe a Princess becomes Queen and equally rules the kingdom... until she's pi++ed off divorces your As+ and takes here half that she didn't have before the marriage and the spends the rest of her life trying to get the other half from you using your children as hostages!!!!

OH! OH! OHHH!!!

But, as Walter Cronkite (God rest his soul said) "And That's the Way it is."

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Don't fall for the GF's family trap crap...but if you do... it is usually cheaper than the cost of an American or British woman...and MUCH CHEAPER THAN DIVORCING THEM!

You forgot to mention in #5 how the Queen fattens up and doles out sex biannually, which the King doesn't really mind because she is so fat he would rather mount a cow.

I loved the show John & "Hate" Plus 8 it really put the reality of marital bliss.

TOO RIGHT!!!

"God Bless America", cos nobody else is gonna!!!

I channel surfed onto that show once.... made my 'member' afraid to work for a week knowing how much damage he was capable of doing. Then I bought him some extra battle gear.

Trojan condoms (extra large to make him feel better about himself...ever notice association between battle and sex....you need a Trojan to get into the fortress ), some THUNDERBIRDS GO! pills...aka Viagra and some some Slide gel...just because!

I thought about starting a movement to get all of the men out of America into Thailand. Then I realized if I did that, the American women not being able to take a hint would follow and then commence to try to 'educate' Thai women on the proper way to browbeat and force their men into submission.

Sorry Guys!!! You're on your own....hard enough to school the boys that make it this far.

[DMasut]

Most Thai people often ask me - of past relationships with a Thai woman - 'But does she love you?'

If Thai people do not marry for love or have loving relationships, why on earth would they be asking if the g/f of the day loves me?

Weren't you aware G54? Asians dont know nor understand love .....not like we do, of course.

B.S and double B.S.

Come back when you know what you are talking about.

Didn't pick-up on the sarcasm smilies, Mate? Little serious, are we....??

Think it was more lack of sleep and p...ed off with the uk mate. sorry over reaction from me.

alls well that ends well i'm out of here and back in bkk saturday.

with all seriousness and joking aside, you do realize Thai's translation of love and a westerners translation are not the same?

They are capable of Love, just not always our version. Would take too long to explain here.

Buy me 57 beers and by that time...it won't matter. .... OH NO!!! MORE GIRLS!!!!! ...and so the cycle of life goes on.

WORLD POPULATION:

6,600,000,000 +/- 100,000,000

WOMEN IN WORLD:

3,400,000,000

WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU BREAK UP WITH WIFE/GF, ETC.

3,400,000,000 - 1 = 3,399,999,999 OTHER WOMEN LEFT TO RUIN YOUR LIFE.

OH YEAH!!! You're going down....but are you going down laughing or crying...it's up to you

Edited July 30, 2009 by DMasut

[edokhv]

Reply to Kaosoi,

I was born and raised in Thailand up until I was twenty-one. My mother was born in a small village the size of 500 people in the North East of Thailand. My dad was born and raised in Ayuthtaya. The reason I am able to mention my family background is because when it comes down to Thai culture i am sure i would be able to explain to you in the best way--instead of people who "THINK" they know what they're talking about.

In Thailand you do not "pay" to date the daughter and for some reason you have been told that you have to pay or ask to do it. Say "no" (Back in the day you pretty much have to sit down and have a conversation with your gf with her parents 5 feet away at all times) Now 2-3 hundred years later they would be happy if a guy would even pay for a meal on a date and lucky if their daughter would find the right one who will marry her because in SOME (yes, i said some) of Thai parent's eyes "Men are most likely gonna hit and run"

Before we even get into "why" you have to "pay" for your Thai gf/fiance. I have to get this straight. You're NOT paying to buy her. You're paying to show your respect to her family (after all they were the ones who spend countless hours to raise a fine daughter--you know? the one you want to marry??) and to ensure them that you would be able to look after her for the rest of her life. And for how much? that depends on a lot of different things based of how they raised her, her education etc; and you should respect that as how much you respect their daughter. Again that does not happened during the dating stage. This would happened when they feel that you're both ready to be committed. Normally it would happened after you're engaged and ready to be married ONLY.

If you notice having a big diamond ring is never been written in any Thai traditional wedding. We use Gold, Money, Silver, Rice Etc; as a promise ring and that you will be there for her for better or worse, in sickness and in health. Some part of it will get saved up or put towards a better home for her parents. In case something should happen (she were to get divorced or her spouse passed away) she will have a place to come home too.

(That's what my parents would do anyway, I don't know about other families, so please do share...)

This is one of the many reasons why some families would prefer and believe its a blessing to have a son. Because a son would carry on their good name. Every Thai men will have to get ordained as a monk at least once in their life time for their parents to be pardoned in every wrong doing that they did in their life time until they ascend to heaven. (Making it easy to understand having a son is like having a VIP pass to heaven) and he will be the one who take care of the parents at an old age. But the daughter will get married and will be given to her husband and his family. She will be the one who is taking care of her husband and his needs including his family (if needed)

If this happened during the dating stage. It's because your gf or her parents have heard from their neighbor, or friends, or a friend of a friend who dated a westerner that they have paid for monthly support. (which happens A LOT , part of it is true, but part of it just to brag to their friends. For some reason it has become a trend) which may be why they brought this up upon you.

Now what you need to do is find someone who would be able to help you translate and help you communicate CLEARLY that you're in love with their daughter and you would love to date their daughter until such a time that it is right you will marry her or you just want to date her, take it slow and see what the future will bring. Either/Or you HAVE to make it clear. Otherwise it could be a misunderstanding that could effect the relationship you have with her parents when you decide to marry her.

And for more info. I'm 27 yrs old been happily married for 3 years. My husband has never have to pay a dime to my parents. Maybe a little bit, some put towards gifts on a special occasion like my birthday, or new year. He loves my family and would gladly help them. He would sponsor my sisters sometime in the future. Because we have an understanding that the day we were married we're one. I'm working full time and i don't send my parents money every month because they never asked me too. Every time i called they just want to know if i am doing well and that we work hard in our relationship to love one another unconditionally. I think those are the most important things to all parents no matter what nationality you are.

Wishes you the best Kaosoi,

-Sriprai

This is one great and refreshing post!

I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses and realize that relationship with a girl are not too different whether it is in Thailand or somewhere else. Show people trust and respect and you will get the same in return!!!

[venturalaw]

Reply to Kaosoi,

I was born and raised in Thailand up until I was twenty-one. My mother was born in a small village the size of 500 people in the North East of Thailand. My dad was born and raised in Ayuthtaya. The reason I am able to mention my family background is because when it comes down to Thai culture i am sure i would be able to explain to you in the best way--instead of people who "THINK" they know what they're talking about.

In Thailand you do not "pay" to date the daughter and for some reason you have been told that you have to pay or ask to do it. Say "no" (Back in the day you pretty much have to sit down and have a conversation with your gf with her parents 5 feet away at all times) Now 2-3 hundred years later they would be happy if a guy would even pay for a meal on a date and lucky if their daughter would find the right one who will marry her because in SOME (yes, i said some) of Thai parent's eyes "Men are most likely gonna hit and run"

Before we even get into "why" you have to "pay" for your Thai gf/fiance. I have to get this straight. You're NOT paying to buy her. You're paying to show your respect to her family (after all they were the ones who spend countless hours to raise a fine daughter--you know? the one you want to marry??) and to ensure them that you would be able to look after her for the rest of her life. And for how much? that depends on a lot of different things based of how they raised her, her education etc; and you should respect that as how much you respect their daughter. Again that does not happened during the dating stage. This would happened when they feel that you're both ready to be committed. Normally it would happened after you're engaged and ready to be married ONLY.

If you notice having a big diamond ring is never been written in any Thai traditional wedding. We use Gold, Money, Silver, Rice Etc; as a promise ring and that you will be there for her for better or worse, in sickness and in health. Some part of it will get saved up or put towards a better home for her parents. In case something should happen (she were to get divorced or her spouse passed away) she will have a place to come home too.

(That's what my parents would do anyway, I don't know about other families, so please do share...)

This is one of the many reasons why some families would prefer and believe its a blessing to have a son. Because a son would carry on their good name. Every Thai men will have to get ordained as a monk at least once in their life time for their parents to be pardoned in every wrong doing that they did in their life time until they ascend to heaven. (Making it easy to understand having a son is like having a VIP pass to heaven) and he will be the one who take care of the parents at an old age. But the daughter will get married and will be given to her husband and his family. She will be the one who is taking care of her husband and his needs including his family (if needed)

If this happened during the dating stage. It's because your gf or her parents have heard from their neighbor, or friends, or a friend of a friend who dated a westerner that they have paid for monthly support. (which happens A LOT , part of it is true, but part of it just to brag to their friends. For some reason it has become a trend) which may be why they brought this up upon you.

Now what you need to do is find someone who would be able to help you translate and help you communicate CLEARLY that you're in love with their daughter and you would love to date their daughter until such a time that it is right you will marry her or you just want to date her, take it slow and see what the future will bring. Either/Or you HAVE to make it clear. Otherwise it could be a misunderstanding that could effect the relationship you have with her parents when you decide to marry her.

And for more info. I'm 27 yrs old been happily married for 3 years. My husband has never have to pay a dime to my parents. Maybe a little bit, some put towards gifts on a special occasion like my birthday, or new year. He loves my family and would gladly help them. He would sponsor my sisters sometime in the future. Because we have an understanding that the day we were married we're one. I'm working full time and i don't send my parents money every month because they never asked me too. Every time i called they just want to know if i am doing well and that we work hard in our relationship to love one another unconditionally. I think those are the most important things to all parents no matter what nationality you are.

Wishes you the best Kaosoi,

-Sriprai

This is one great and refreshing post!

I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses and realize that relationship with a girl are not too different whether it is in Thailand or somewhere else. Show people trust and respect and you will get the same in return!!!

You will only receive trust and respect in return from those who are trustworthy and respectable. Unfortunately so many are out there just for themselves, and to hel_l with the rest of the world. The better you treat them the more they will take it as a form of weakness to be exploited.

[thaihome]

.... In Thailand you do not "pay" to date the daughter and for some reason you have been told that you have to pay or ask to do it....

Wishes you the best Kaosoi,

-Sriprai

Great post, but you missed one very important fact. He is not dateing the daughter, he is living with her in Bangkok. How do you think the family reacts to that? Don't you agree that as far as they are concerned, they are married, and they just didn't get invited to the wedding so to speak?

TH

[TaoNow]

OP is long gone and this thread has degenerated from the first day of responses which were mostly informed and reasonable.

But in reading all the Q&A, there are a few missing details that could help OP (and others) make a decision that works for them and the Thai culture:

1. Did the lady in question go to OP's apartment to spend the night of her own free will, with no coercion or promises of monetary compensation?

2. Has the the lady had a "serious" relationship before OP? That is, has she ever spent the night alone with a guy before OP?

3. Is the lady's family from a higher, medium or lower socio-economic status?

If the answer to (1) is 'yes', (2) is 'yes', and (3) is 'medium' or 'lower', then I would say this living arrangement is not considered marriage in the current, Bangkok Thai environment. At most, the family could say "we would prefer that you live separately until you want to get engaged". Then, as others have stated, it is up to the lady to make the cost/benefit calculation of staying with OP in the apartment.

[cyb]

OP is long gone and this thread has degenerated from the first day of responses which were mostly informed and reasonable.

But in reading all the Q&A, there are a few missing details that could help OP (and others) make a decision that works for them and the Thai culture:

1. Did the lady in question go to OP's apartment to spend the night of her own free will, with no coercion or promises of monetary compensation?

2. Has the the lady had a "serious" relationship before OP? That is, has she ever spent the night alone with a guy before OP?

3. Is the lady's family from a higher, medium or lower socio-economic status?

If the answer to (1) is 'yes', (2) is 'yes', and (3) is 'medium' or 'lower', then I would say this living arrangement is not considered marriage in the current, Bangkok Thai environment. At most, the family could say "we would prefer that you live separately until you want to get engaged". Then, as others have stated, it is up to the lady to make the cost/benefit calculation of staying with OP in the apartment.

I cannot believe this post and thats all i am going to say.

[walterego]

The fact you (the OP) are asking this question would show some element of doubt or you wouldnt be asking a whole lot of people who you dont really know very well for relationship advice. on that note trust your instinct.

Everyone has their own opinion based on their own subjective reality... that said of course I want my 2 bits

I would aruge that in Western Culture it is custom for the wife to have a Dowry and pay for the entire wedding. Are they able ? if no then ok.. we dont have to get married.

It is true about sinsod(giving a gift at marriage) it is a status thing to show the community that you are able to support a family and are a man of worth.

However This is 99.9% of the time (with the exception of old Farangs meeting 20yo bar girls in Patts) in token only and not a permanent gift it would be returned almost immediatly. (if any is given at all that is. most happily married in love girls & guys i know here have never paid such a thing.) My GF would not dare asking and nor does she want to she wants wealth to stay with me... and thus by default (she hopes) with her.

As a poster said earlier: it depends also a lot on what your gf thinks about this?

as you can see it is obviously a try on .. so pay now and you will pay forever.

But is she in on it? does she support you being scammed? You cant blame a poor family for wanting to hit you up for a 100k can you, but does she?

Also without any deviation clearly state your opinion of the relationship status to her family with her there ... just say it like it is eg"she lives there dont want marriage never will if you dont like it she can always move back and eat your food... and do you mind if y9oru daughter will do double acts"

This way you can never be accused of any false pretence later on.

She has taken you back to the family though and that is a big thing she thinks she has landed you.

What you may well be asking her to interpret on your behalf to her parents is sadly subject to her translation. If you cant speak Thai get a friend to write them a letter you can pass to them.

Good luck.

cheers.

Edited July 31, 2009 by walterego

[PingManDan]

has anyone heard of a custom of giving alot of money to the parents just to date the daughter.

Poor girl and foreigner - happens alll the time.

Simple answer - NO it's not right. Tell them where to go.

If you get married, give them some cash - about 100,000 is more than enough for a poor family.

Yes until they want more when thats gone, oh ya it will go for sure, and you never know where.

Edited July 31, 2009 by PingManDan

[bangla]

The fact you (the OP) are asking this question would show some element of doubt or you wouldnt be asking a whole lot of people who you dont really know very well for relationship advice. on that note trust your instinct.

everybody that's dating a thai woman has read the horror stories about sin sot.

him asking about it here doesn't say anything about his doubts.

it only says something about other peoples doubts.

he wants them confirmed (or not).

[Datsun240Z]

Reply to Kaosoi,

I was born and raised in Thailand up until I was twenty-one. My mother was born in a small village the size of 500 people in the North East of Thailand. My dad was born and raised in Ayuthtaya. The reason I am able to mention my family background is because when it comes down to Thai culture i am sure i would be able to explain to you in the best way--instead of people who "THINK" they know what they're talking about.

In Thailand you do not "pay" to date the daughter and for some reason you have been told that you have to pay or ask to do it. Say "no" (Back in the day you pretty much have to sit down and have a conversation with your gf with her parents 5 feet away at all times) Now 2-3 hundred years later they would be happy if a guy would even pay for a meal on a date and lucky if their daughter would find the right one who will marry her because in SOME (yes, i said some) of Thai parent's eyes "Men are most likely gonna hit and run"

Before we even get into "why" you have to "pay" for your Thai gf/fiance. I have to get this straight. You're NOT paying to buy her. You're paying to show your respect to her family (after all they were the ones who spend countless hours to raise a fine daughter--you know? the one you want to marry??) and to ensure them that you would be able to look after her for the rest of her life. And for how much? that depends on a lot of different things based of how they raised her, her education etc; and you should respect that as how much you respect their daughter. Again that does not happened during the dating stage. This would happened when they feel that you're both ready to be committed. Normally it would happened after you're engaged and ready to be married ONLY.

If you notice having a big diamond ring is never been written in any Thai traditional wedding. We use Gold, Money, Silver, Rice Etc; as a promise ring and that you will be there for her for better or worse, in sickness and in health. Some part of it will get saved up or put towards a better home for her parents. In case something should happen (she were to get divorced or her spouse passed away) she will have a place to come home too.

(That's what my parents would do anyway, I don't know about other families, so please do share...)

This is one of the many reasons why some families would prefer and believe its a blessing to have a son. Because a son would carry on their good name. Every Thai men will have to get ordained as a monk at least once in their life time for their parents to be pardoned in every wrong doing that they did in their life time until they ascend to heaven. (Making it easy to understand having a son is like having a VIP pass to heaven) and he will be the one who take care of the parents at an old age. But the daughter will get married and will be given to her husband and his family. She will be the one who is taking care of her husband and his needs including his family (if needed)

If this happened during the dating stage. It's because your gf or her parents have heard from their neighbor, or friends, or a friend of a friend who dated a westerner that they have paid for monthly support. (which happens A LOT , part of it is true, but part of it just to brag to their friends. For some reason it has become a trend) which may be why they brought this up upon you.

Now what you need to do is find someone who would be able to help you translate and help you communicate CLEARLY that you're in love with their daughter and you would love to date their daughter until such a time that it is right you will marry her or you just want to date her, take it slow and see what the future will bring. Either/Or you HAVE to make it clear. Otherwise it could be a misunderstanding that could effect the relationship you have with her parents when you decide to marry her.

And for more info. I'm 27 yrs old been happily married for 3 years. My husband has never have to pay a dime to my parents. Maybe a little bit, some put towards gifts on a special occasion like my birthday, or new year. He loves my family and would gladly help them. He would sponsor my sisters sometime in the future. Because we have an understanding that the day we were married we're one. I'm working full time and i don't send my parents money every month because they never asked me too. Every time i called they just want to know if i am doing well and that we work hard in our relationship to love one another unconditionally. I think those are the most important things to all parents no matter what nationality you are.

Wishes you the best Kaosoi,

-Sriprai

This is one great and refreshing post!

I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses and realize that relationship with a girl are not too different whether it is in Thailand or somewhere else. Show people trust and respect and you will get the same in return!!!

You will only receive trust and respect in return from those who are trustworthy and respectable. Unfortunately so many are out there just for themselves, and to hel_l with the rest of the world. The better you treat them the more they will take it as a form of weakness to be exploited.

So true.

[scottyd]

Everytime I read a thread about families asking for money or sinsot, it makes me sick, not because it gets asked all the time, but because if I was in that situation thats how I would feel.

It's obvious that you don't want to pay the money, or you would not have asked, so I would suggest not paying it.

If I was in your situation I would not be paying it either.

I understand some may say that it is customary since you are in Thailand with different cultures, etc. etc. but it does not change the fact that you are you. You are not Thai, you are a foreigner, and that is how it will always be.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for respecting other peoples cultures and beliefs, but it does not mean you have to completely disregard yours to support them.

If I were to have a Thai girlfriend/wife I would treat her the same way as I would any other girlfriend, I would not be paying any form of money to the parents as my loyalties are not with them, but with my girlfriend/wife. If the girl does not like it, well then it was not meant to be, and if she is ok with it, then excellent. If she wants to give money to her parents out of her own pocket then that is fine with me, but I do not like having things like this expected from me. It's just not cricket.

Oh, and as for supporting brothers, sisters, cats, dogs, buffalo and the village, you have got absolutely bob hope of that happening.

[Datsun240Z]

Everytime I read a thread about families asking for money or sinsot, it makes me sick, not because it gets asked all the time, but because if I was in that situation thats how I would feel.

It's obvious that you don't want to pay the money, or you would not have asked, so I would suggest not paying it.

If I was in your situation I would not be paying it either.

I understand some may say that it is customary since you are in Thailand with different cultures, etc. etc. but it does not change the fact that you are you. You are not Thai, you are a foreigner, and that is how it will always be.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for respecting other peoples cultures and beliefs, but it does not mean you have to completely disregard yours to support them.

If I were to have a Thai girlfriend/wife I would treat her the same way as I would any other girlfriend, I would not be paying any form of money to the parents as my loyalties are not with them, but with my girlfriend/wife. If the girl does not like it, well then it was not meant to be, and if she is ok with it, then excellent. If she wants to give money to her parents out of her own pocket then that is fine with me, but I do not like having things like this expected from me. It's just not cricket.

Oh, and as for supporting brothers, sisters, cats, dogs, buffalo and the village, you have got absolutely bob hope of that happening.

I think the same way, and I agree with your ideas. However this wil result in a 80% failure rate / gf will walk away.

[ppmacready]

thanks Neeranam...someone who understands what a forum is......

Did you ask your g/f WHY they want money?

Ask her what part of Thai tradition requires a man to pay for a g/f.

Then get back to us with the answer.

I have lived here 15 yrs.

My opinion has changed a lot since I first moved here!

Yours will to!

I'd pay as you go.

I give my girlfriend of 5 years, 6,000 baht pocket money each month.

She gives most of it to her parents.

Which I call rent!

It makes no difference what the culture is.

Or What we think.

Or how they answer your questions!

THIS IS THAILAND!

You have formed a relationship with a poor girl, who's family think of her as a golden goose that your plucking.

They just want there cut.

Negotiate well and pay monthly!

This way you will get your moneys worth!

Don't pay for anything in advance.

Your playing chess , there playing draughts.

You just cant lose if your sensible.

Forget principles, its only about the money!

My advice to guys re Thai girls is-

If she's from a bar-

You only need to ask your self 2 questions-

Am I happy and can I afford her.

If shes not from a bar-

Same 2 questions!

B Lucky

P.P.Pan

[scottyd]

You do realise that it will cost you more in the long run paying monthly, or "pay as you go" as you put it.

The rest of that post is ridiculous, she is not a mobile phone.

[G54]

You do realise that it will cost you more in the long run paying monthly, or "pay as you go" as you put it.

The rest of that post is ridiculous, she is not a mobile phone.

But if she cuts and runs after a big initial payment then the man would have paid for sod all and have to start looking anew, thereby losing a large stash of cash..

Pay monthly and if she wants to go you have at least got your moneys worth. If she fails to live up to standard then you can cut the payments

I'd rather have pay as U go any day. I have heard of too many let downs in the past to pay up front for a 'service' that can be terminated at any time and have been terminated quickly.

[scottyd]

Thats why you dont pay a penny, if she is the real deal then there wont be a problem. If you are paying as you go, it's almost like you know the girl will fuc_k off so you are paying for her to stay, it's quite sad really.

[johnwills]

I have Thai friends who are getting married in November, the wedding was delayed whilst he saved enough money to pay the sinsod. For those people saying only old/ugly/fat people pay the sinsod it is simply not true. As to the amounts paid, this varies wildly depending on circumstances.

If you think what a wedding would cost you in the West (some of my friends spent 20-30,000 pounds), then paying the family 100,000 baht doesn't seen a bad deal.

[G54]

Thats why you dont pay a penny, if she is the real deal then there wont be a problem. If you are paying as you go, it's almost like you know the girl will fuc_k off so you are paying for her to stay, it's quite sad really.

On the other hand, helping out the woman in your life is part and parcel of life both here and in the West unless she is the one on the greater salary.

Don't pay a penny is tight fisted in the extreme wherever you are.

On the other hand, paying through the nose is a foolhardy thing to do. Balance in all things is usually best.

As many will already know, I refuse to pay a fortune to any woman but I am always willing to lend a helping hand, that is what being in a relationship is all about.

[bangla]

love and money can't mix in the west.

it's a taboo.

don't get involved with a thai woman if you can't leave your christian indoctrination behind.

[SMEEERE]

Thats why you dont pay a penny, if she is the real deal then there wont be a problem. If you are paying as you go, it's almost like you know the girl will fuc_k off so you are paying for her to stay, it's quite sad really.

Ill bet you are quite young and i bit pissed off that an old guy can get a woman this way and be happy with it, so what !,.i think hes smart and brave to admit that as there wil be other opinionated twits that wil shout mobile phone rental and the likes, id suggest you leave your western opinions at the airport, the thais dont give a toss so why should we !,.when in rome,, get used to it,.

[SMEEERE]

thanks Neeranam...someone who understands what a forum is......

Did you ask your g/f WHY they want money?

Ask her what part of Thai tradition requires a man to pay for a g/f.

Then get back to us with the answer.

I have lived here 15 yrs.

My opinion has changed a lot since I first moved here!

Yours will to!

I'd pay as you go.

I give my girlfriend of 5 years, 6,000 baht pocket money each month.

She gives most of it to her parents.

Which I call rent!

It makes no difference what the culture is.

Or What we think.

Or how they answer your questions!

THIS IS THAILAND!

You have formed a relationship with a poor girl, who's family think of her as a golden goose that your plucking.

They just want there cut.

Negotiate well and pay monthly!

This way you will get your moneys worth!

Don't pay for anything in advance.

Your playing chess , there playing draughts.

You just cant lose if your sensible.

Forget principles, its only about the money!

My advice to guys re Thai girls is-

If she's from a bar-

You only need to ask your self 2 questions-

Am I happy and can I afford her.

If shes not from a bar-

Same 2 questions!

B Lucky

P.P.Pan

Well said, if only wore were realists like you,

[scottyd]

Ill bet you are quite young and i bit pissed off that an old guy can get a woman this way and be happy with it, so what !,.i think hes smart and brave to admit that as there wil be other opinionated twits that wil shout mobile phone rental and the likes, id suggest you leave your western opinions at the airport, the thais dont give a toss so why should we !,.when in rome,, get used to it,.

The "When in Rome" principle just does not cut it mate. Just because someone works in a sewer, it does not mean they are shit, and just because you leave the west does not mean you have to act like a complete degenerate. And hereby lies the problem, people leave the west and go to Thailand, feel they need to act like morons, and do leave their opinions and morals at the airport.

As for the argument about age etc. etc. I don't remember this being a factor, or even mentioned by the TC.

Why should I or anyone for that matter, be pissed off that an old guy can get a woman and be happy? If thats their thing, then good for them, but if they are looking for love, well they are looking in the wrong place. Its a simple matter of either paying the woman to stay, or paying the woman to leave, however the latter of the two is called prostitution, and none of those contain the western idea of love.