Artisi Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I too dislike blantant corruption but you must bear in mind that there is a preceived difference in Thai thinking between corruption and a "fee" for service to get things done- as was the old way of doing things and still considered acceptable. In this case you need to ask yourself, was this an outright bribe request or a payment to off-set the costs in sending someone to review your marriage status, which for a first time marriage visa is quite normal. It will be interesting to see how your marriage visa extension develops, pleased keep us updated. Edited July 30, 2009 by Artisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I too dislike blantant corruption but you must bear in mind that there is a preceived difference in Thai thinking between corruption and a "fee" for service to get things done- as was the old way of doing things and still considered acceptable.In this case you need to ask yourself, was this an outright bribe request or a payment to off-set the costs in sending someone to review your marriage status, which for a first time marriage visa is quite normal. It will be interesting to see how your marriage visa extension develops, pleased keep us updated. Immigration can ask the local police to check. That is quite normal. So there is no need to provide this "service". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The 1900 bht fee paid for extension should cover everything. Anything else is an attempt at extortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) And its people like the above poster (Northern Goat) who are helping to to their part to ensure that the corruption never ends.... Keep up the good work Edited July 30, 2009 by CWMcMurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 ^ Like the now faceless Immigration gaffer having the local MIB pop around the school on the day that the OP is giving some free 'L'ocution lessons and smiling and laughing deprecatingly, they ask to see his WP. Since the OP may already have told the 'big cheese' that he was teaching out of the goodness if his heart, maybe his travails are just beginning. But I truly hope not!!!! I guess always have the 'big picture' in mind and it's pretty much a global that if you screw around with anyone in a uniform, be it law enforcement or local government or the rent-a-cop at the front gate of your estate, you are pushing the envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Texas Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It is likely that the more the economy declines, and the more they continue with the stupid beyond imagination social engineering program that is costing them money, the more this sort of thing will increase. Ooooooo noooooooo..... NOT JR's imagined elephant in the room AGAIN????!!!!! I was talking about the entire system that is frekin' nuts to deal with.........starting with the long trip all the way to Nan. He and his wife should be able to do it anywhere.........there have also been bar raises (repeatedly). IMHO, it has nothing to do with security and everything to do with breaking up mixed-race families and getting rid of the not so rich farangs. The social engineering is far from imaginary.............even the word "quality tourist" is part of a social engineering program. So our concepts like "pepetual tourists" and "border runners." They are trying to change views about foreigners.........they are trying to change the composition of foreigners in the country........that is social engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Just because there are cases of corruption in the west does not make it correct. It is wrong no matter where it happens. In the west many at least realize what they are doing is morally/legally wrong and try to keep it behind closed doors and if what they were doing ever became publically known they would be punished and held accountable (in the vast majority of cases). In my opinion throw them all in Jail... Corrupt folks in the US, corrupt MPs in the UK and yes even the corrupt government officials in Thailand. It will never be possible to eliminate all forms of crime (robbery, murder, rape or Corruption), but the goal of a society should be to punish those who commit these crimes and try to keep the number of occurrences to a minimum. Thank You! I'll do my best to make it work for the good of the foreigners! I had to a couple of times and these guys were pretty happy aswell! (f.e: a guy beeing 2 days late for a visa run with the police trying to put him into jail and get him deported (typically "i don't like your face"), happens sometimes...) And corruption doesn't always mean that there is money involved, sometimes it's just knowing a "big cheese" you play golf with, that makes a call. Surely this form of corruption would be accepted by most (or already tried back home)?!And yes corruption will never end! And there is no indication that the west has in any way got rid of it, it's just happening behind the scenes (that's why the media is privatly owned these days), and here it's practiced openly. So who has spine then, if in the west people have to hide it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aitch52 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hello everyone been thinking about this for a couple of hours, I was sat in same chair as OP and was also asked to contribute to the home visit fund. Like him I also felt the heckles rise but then thought about it. Government officals doing an 800 Km round trip to check credentials, I did a lot of government work in early '90's. paid 40P per mile then, say 500 miles, that is £200, plus hotel and food £40 per diem. so for a round trip plus overnight stay around about 11,500 Baht-ish in 1991 prices. Lets break it down to Thai prices, diesel at 10 kms per litre = 80 x 25 = 1700 Baht, probably 2 officials, hotel 300 Baht each, 2300, depreciation on the government vehicle, 1 baht per kilo = 800 Baht + 3100 Baht total. I paid it and didn't feel as if I was nailed in the Keister. Gentlemen, the OP's argument that this is corruption, whilst eloquently put, is seriously flawed, I put it to you that the fault lies not with the locals but with the Farang who have lied about their marital status. Those of you that think I am totally pro Thai, then you are wrong, I fully accept that it ain't perfect here but I am here because I want to be here. It is after all their train set and if we want to play with it then we have to abide by the rules. As to the question of the receipt, is it really necesssary? Your wife was in attendance as was mine, proof of payment would be in our testimony, having worked in the building trade, cash in hand is good for me, forget the receipt and the VAT. No offence intended in this post, I am just offering an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The fee for any extension is 1.900 Baht. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 They do not need to travel. This is police business and the local police can take care of local reporting - as has always been the case. There is no provision in Thai law or statutes for any such charge being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Here is an official list of Immigration Fees. I cannot see any mention of a 3,000 Bat fee for getting on a bus to visit an applicant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aitch52 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Agreed Lopburi, but please give me the credit for asking what the extra dosh was for, quote: "for diesel and expenses for my staff to travel to your home". Not exact words but close enough, I too thought the obvious thing for them to do would be to pick up the phone to the local constabulary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinchester Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Agreed Lopburi, but please give me the credit for asking what the extra dosh was for, quote: "for diesel and expenses for my staff to travel to your home". Not exact words but close enough, I too thought the obvious thing for them to do would be to pick up the phone to the local constabulary. Do you seriously think that the 3k will be reimbursed into immigration coffers? It will go straight into the officers pocket and the official(s) sent to the home address will be paid out of expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattoodrob Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Pattaya IMM told my wife that if we have everything in order then process can be sped up for 6k baht, she reduced them down to 5k... i have everything correct and they said to her that paying this fee will speed it up quite considerably and no one will come to the house to check etc...they said will be granted in days........as i have everything correct then i think i will wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Haha, one office wants tea money to send officers for a check, another so they do not have to send them for a check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 From the forum/netiquette rules: 2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned. I have deleted two posts that violate the above rule and one reply to a deleted post. -- Maestro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thainet Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well time for my comments again after I certainly stirred up a bunch of interesting posts. Let's get this out of the way first--Of course it's a bribe and of course it's not 'official' fees and once again I don't condone corruption, BUT this was not what my first post was really about, it was the attitude the OP took with his wife present (whatever he says, she was embarrassed and certainly a loss of face in front of Govt officials even though the official was way out of line---as I said before, he should have compromised with something like (well sir I have 500 baht or perhaps 1000 baht on me and that would have been accepted). Still a payment but everyone is happy and the OP doesn't have to worry for the next month while his visa is under consideration and also perhaps longer when the IMM officials turn up at the school. If this was in Bangkok/Pattaya or Phuket then you'd never be remembered with so many applicants per day, but NAN being so small and with only a few applicants then remembered you will be. For the posters that believe writing letters and making phone calls is going to stop this type of thing, you are sadly mistaken. Recently in a Bangkok Post poll Thai's voted over 80% that official corruption is ok as long as their lives are not affected too much. Right or wrong you have made yourself visible to the authorities for a receipt--why you as a foreigner (who apparently wants to lead a nice quiet life) needs that kind of hassle is beyond me. For the record I have had PR for many many years and during the long process leading up to that I had to pay at times and also stand my ground at times, but NEVER pissed off any official at any Govt Dept. Go with the flow and you'll be fine--get all righteous in your ADOPTED country and you deserve to have problems. Anyway, agree or not agree with me, doesn't really worry me but this philosophy has stood me in good stead in Thailand for 30 odd years. Cheers for now...T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 "get all righteous in your ADOPTED country and you deserve to have problems.Anyway, agree or not agree with me, doesn't really worry me but this philosophy has stood me in good stead in Thailand for 30 odd years. Cheers for now...T" Thainet i don't think the OP "deserve" to have problems, let's say it's much more likely to "encounter" problems because he made the choice to stand up against what is wrong in this country, with his action he tried to create a better place for all, including you and me, why would you blame someone that it's trying to make even your life a better life? hopefully you will get to enjoy another 30 years in a more decent place thanks to all people that risk their own safety to get rid of all those abuses, the more you concede and the more they are going to get from you, and as far as i am concern, the local attitude seems to tend to strangle the "hen with the golden eggs" rather then keep her alive and get a new egg everyday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 One year extension of Non O visa on grounds of marriage v. on grounds of retirement. Read all these posts & if you qualify on grounds of retirement the answer will become crystal clear. My last extension at Nan, on grounds of retirement, took 20 minutes & cost 1900Bt. Nothing more. Maybe just a smile. On the subject of corruption. We are guests in this country. We live here because we prefer living here to living elsewhere. As foreigners we have no right to attempt to change anything. That right is reserved for Thais. If you cannot accept Thailand as it is you should leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 One year extension of Non O visa on grounds of marriage v. on grounds of retirement. Read all these posts & if you qualify on grounds of retirement the answer will become crystal clear. My last extension at Nan, on grounds of retirement, took 20 minutes & cost 1900Bt. Nothing more. Maybe just a smile. On the subject of corruption. We are guests in this country. We live here because we prefer living here to living elsewhere. As foreigners we have no right to attempt to change anything. That right is reserved for Thais. If you cannot accept Thailand as it is you should leave. We have no right to try and avoid being scammed? Please explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgjackson69 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Reading this thread makes me appreciate dealing with Korat Immigration all the more. I just went for my second Extension application based on marriage. As usual, everything went smoothly. The same person has seen me each time (K Chanchai aka K Whiteout) and has always been professional and courteous. This time he was very sure to explain to my wife thoroughly and that I understood that I must re-enter Thailand before 18 August or my current extension will be invalidated, and therefore the extension that I just applied for would not be approved. I made sure that he knew that I understood that, and thanked him for explaining it to my wife as well. On the first extension application they never sent anyone out for a home visit. Neither time did they want to see photos. So far I have visited K Chanchai 5 times...for the first extension application, for the first extension approval, for a re-entry permit, for a letter of residence, and now for the second extension of stay application. Never has there been any mention of additional fees, either for a trip to the house as detailed by the OP or mentioned as a way to "make things go smoother". K Chanchai has jokingly mentioned that he would like a bottle of Johnny Walker...I might just give him one this time...provided that my extension is approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 One year extension of Non O visa on grounds of marriage v. on grounds of retirement.Read all these posts & if you qualify on grounds of retirement the answer will become crystal clear. My last extension at Nan, on grounds of retirement, took 20 minutes & cost 1900Bt. Nothing more. Maybe just a smile. On the subject of corruption. We are guests in this country. We live here because we prefer living here to living elsewhere. As foreigners we have no right to attempt to change anything. That right is reserved for Thais. If you cannot accept Thailand as it is you should leave. The law is a part of Thai culture too and corruption is against Thai law. Isn't it right that one wants to see the law uphold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiphoon Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The law is a part of Thai culture too and corruption is against Thai law. Isn't it right that one wants to see the law uphold? Nice one Mario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 We live here because we prefer living here to living elsewhere. As foreigners we have no right to attempt to change anything. That right is reserved for Thais. If you cannot accept Thailand as it is you should leave. Choosing to live in Thailand does not demand that we give up all of our rights and anyone (foreigner or Thai) absolutely have every right to TRY and change things. Whether or not a non Thai CAN change anything is in fact a completely separate debate. There are certain rights we are denied by law i.e. the right to vote, own land and work in certain professions, but most of the rights granted to Thais are also granted to non-Thais residing in Thailand. If you chose to give up those rights, that is also your right, but you should not demand others to do the same. You may be a guest here, but this is my home. I may not have any guarantee as to how long it will remain my home, but while it is, I do not have any problem with viewing it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 It's good to stand up for what is right and to stand your ground but to those who think by doing so will change the way business is done are dreamers. Korea had a similar problem years back they raise wages and inforced the no corruption rules and it has improved dealing with local officials. The Thais will have to do a similar thing raise the wages of police and officials so they make a decent living and enforce anti-corruption laws, and rules. One or two falangs making a point will not change a thing no matter how right it may seem or how good it makes one feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgjackson69 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) <snip>You may be a guest here, but this is my home. I may not have any guarantee as to how long it will remain my home, but while it is, I do not have any problem with viewing it as such. Go ahead and view it that way...but you *are* a guest here, just like most of the rest of us. Unless you have been granted Thai citizenship...and even then that could probably be revoked. I consider Thailand to be my home now as well, but I do not pretend that I have any sort of special status. I am just another guest here on an Extension of Stay based on marriage. Edited July 31, 2009 by mgjackson69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatman Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Let us look at it from the other side of the desk. Imagine yourself an immigration official. Every working day you encounter a succession of foreign men (invariably men) applying to extend their stay in your country, usually with one of your women in tow to boot. You know these men are wealthy. They must be because as a prerequisite for applying they must have a minimum 400000/800000Bt, depending on the extension, in their Thai bank account. Money which they can`t use so they`ve obviously got more, how else could they live? As a poorly paid immigration official you have never seen such a balance in your account, nor are you likely to. If a problem arises in the foreigner`s application you can offer to help. They should be glad of the offer & they can obviously afford the small gratuity that you would request. After all they are rich & you & your family are poor. Looked at from that perspective, is it so bad? The amounts in question are petty. It is hardly an arm & a leg. You would spend more for a meal in a half decent restaurant & think nothing of it. Petty corruption is a fact of life in many countries. You may jump up & down but it isn`t going away. As to your rights as a foreigner- enforcement is the problem surely. Would I pay? Certainly & not lose a wink of sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantheembalmer Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Not only is there a legal obligation upon all of us to oppose corruption, but there is a also a moral imperative not to condone or excuse it as well. To simply say that it is petty, or that it is "tea money", is to hide the fact that it is inevitably helping the bad drive out the good. How much will the advocates of corruption be protesting when, after years of papering over the cracks, they then discover that the whole edifice is collapsing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseLost Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I wonder how many of the sanctimonious posters here have never contributed to corruption, or crime in this country? Let us know if you have never bought or watched pirated dvds; paid money for a woman, bought fake brand names etc... I don't like corruption, but I am not so full of myself that I think I can change the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Then I am so glad that my Thai wife is one of the 20% who will stand up against corruption. Got herself threatened and nearly sacked when she reported corruption in her own office and didn't back down an inch. I am very proud of her. As for putting myself on the other side of the desk, yes I have more money than the immigration officer, I guess that makes me lucky, but it doesn't make me give into any attempts of extortion. How about looking at it the other way. There are plenty of people richer than myself in Thailand. Is it ok if I scam and steal from them too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now