Thai "red Shirts" Seek Royal Pardon For Thaksin

[Koo82]

Also based on the long history of vote stealing, vote buying among the Thakky cronies,

I think the other parties were just pissed off that the "Thakky cronies" were just a bit better at playing the game than them.

In other words Thaksin stole so much more than all of them,

that he was able to purchase all the best selling politicians, and hold them together

with bribes force and perks to actually win another election.

The fact it all fell apart a year beyond typical doesn't erase his achievement

in passing a 2nd election, but it also points to MASSIVE corruption he used to do it.

That no doubt pissed off many.

Until someone can prove Khun Thaksin stole and corrupted, so far I believe he is clean.

All they can find to nail him is the land case. Seller and buyer had no fault but he must go to jail 2 years for being buyer's husband. That's what I understand.

[Koo82]

Reds can petition the King for anything they want. Unfortunately they don't understand that Thailand is a consitutional monarchy and so powers of the monarch are limited by constitution

I think you're not Thai when you say so.

The King has the right to pardon anyone who asks. Up to the King to consider.

This is not the first case people seek for Royal pardon. Other people have done that before.

[Netfan]

Reds can petition the King for anything they want. Unfortunately they don't understand that Thailand is a consitutional monarchy and so powers of the monarch are limited by constitution

I think you're not Thai when you say so.

The King has the right to pardon anyone who asks. Up to the King to consider.

This is not the first case people seek for Royal pardon. Other people have done that before.

Please Koo, give us the previous case in which a person convicted of a crime fled Thailand, then petitioned for the pardon from abroad, never admitting his or her guilt and never spending an hour in prison, Give us the details of that case (s). Please.

Or, to phrase it a different way, provide another case in which someone puts their own power-lust ahead of the well-being of HM. To place an 82 year old man, who has seen healthier times, in this position is disgraceful and only shows what little regard the criminal and his followers have for the institution..

[Jingthing]

Yes, there is an organized and very formal method. It DOES NOT involve petitions open to the general public. It takes time. You must already be in PRISON and you must of course express remorse and ADMIT GUILT. Who does Thaksin think he is? The arrogance is ASTOUNDING. The more you get to know him the more there is not to like ...

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[TAWP]

The sheer ignorance from some posters is indeed astonishing.

You don't know more about your own country than this?

[xminator]

Yes, there is an organized and very formal method. It DOES NOT involve petitions open to the general public. It takes time. You must already be in PRISON and you must of course express remorse and ADMIT GUILT. Who does Thaksin think he is? The arrogance is ASTOUNDING. The more you get to know him the more there is not to like ...

For one he is the Zelaya of Thailand, just too bad the international community looked the other way when the generals decided to do a coup... Everyone know the petiton wont go anywhere in the legal systems of Thailand - much because the offices involved in the handling of petitions also is deeply involved in the powerplay of the junta themselfs.

Its purely a way to get publicity. And a good PR stunt it is. Just look at the panicing government.

[Publicus]

Yes, there is an organized and very formal method. It DOES NOT involve petitions open to the general public. It takes time. You must already be in PRISON and you must of course express remorse and ADMIT GUILT. Who does Thaksin think he is? The arrogance is ASTOUNDING. The more you get to know him the more there is not to like ...

For one he is the Zelaya of Thailand, just too bad the international community looked the other way when the generals decided to do a coup... Everyone know the petiton wont go anywhere in the legal systems of Thailand - much because the offices involved in the handling of petitions also is deeply involved in the powerplay of the junta themselfs.

Its purely a way to get publicity. And a good PR stunt it is. Just look at the panicing government.

Zalaya in Honduras defied a constitutional ruling of the country's supreme court. The supreme court ordered Zalaya arrested, which he duly was. The elected Congress expressed unity with the supreme court by voting to remove Zalaya from the presidency and appointed Zalaya's constitutionaly designated successor to the presidency. Don't even THINK of comparing the process in Honduras to a coup. The salient commonalities between Thaksin and Zalaya is their arrogance, abuse of power and their egomania. Each Zalaya and Thaksin needed to be checkmated.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Publicus

[webfact]

Red shirts to petition on August 17

By The Nation

Published on August 4, 2009

The red shirts will present their petition seeking royal pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to the palace on August 17, organisers said.

"There are more than 5 million signatures for the petition. Name checks will likely be completed around August 15 or 16, so the petition will be filed on August 17," said organiser Veera Musigapong.

The red shirts will organise a colourful march to the palace to present their petition, Veera said.

Included in the procession will be the petition placed atop a ceremonial bowl, a giant banner inscribed with 100,000 names and more than 1,000 marchers carrying the remaining signatures. He said the petition was legal, dismissing as futile government attempts to counter the campaign. "Nothing can stop the red shirts from submitting their petition," he said.

Veera said the government was trying to spread misinformation in a move to oppose the petition. He said the red shirts, in turn, had challenged the government to verify all the signatures.

Opponents of the petition risk offending the monarchy by trying to prevent people from airing their plight to His Majesty the King, he said.

Red-shirt co-leader Natthawut Saikua voiced suspicion that the opponents were mainly individuals involved in ousting Thaksin. He said rectors from 26 universities had erred in opposing the petition as they did when they spearheaded a wrongful move to cite Article 7 of the Constitution, seeking a royally appointed prime minister in order to overthrow Thaksin.

He vowed the petition would advance, regardless of the government's intimidation tactics.

-- The Nation 2009/08/04

[Sandstone Art]

Red shirts to petition on August 17

By The Nation

Published on August 4, 2009

The red shirts will present their petition seeking royal pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to the palace on August 17, organisers said.

"There are more than 5 million signatures for the petition. Name checks will likely be completed around August 15 or 16, so the petition will be filed on August 17," said organiser Veera Musigapong.

The red shirts will organise a colourful march to the palace to present their petition, Veera said.

Included in the procession will be the petition placed atop a ceremonial bowl, a giant banner inscribed with 100,000 names and more than 1,000 marchers carrying the remaining signatures. He said the petition was legal, dismissing as futile government attempts to counter the campaign. "Nothing can stop the red shirts from submitting their petition," he said.

Veera said the government was trying to spread misinformation in a move to oppose the petition. He said the red shirts, in turn, had challenged the government to verify all the signatures.

Opponents of the petition risk offending the monarchy by trying to prevent people from airing their plight to His Majesty the King, he said.

Red-shirt co-leader Natthawut Saikua voiced suspicion that the opponents were mainly individuals involved in ousting Thaksin. He said rectors from 26 universities had erred in opposing the petition as they did when they spearheaded a wrongful move to cite Article 7 of the Constitution, seeking a royally appointed prime minister in order to overthrow Thaksin.

He vowed the petition would advance, regardless of the government's intimidation tactics.

-- The Nation 2009/08/04

Hope that GOD is looking at them from above.

The weather on that day will tell...

[webfact]

<snip>

Included in the procession will be the petition placed atop a ceremonial bowl, a giant banner inscribed with 100,000 names and more than 1,000 marchers carrying the remaining signatures.

<snip>

-- The Nation 2009/08/04

it has turned into a cult.... North Korea on my mind

[Samuian]

But Poorsucker, Mr. Thaksin has nothing to serve time for and nothing to regret. .

Yes, nobody understands this guy is innocent and has done nothing wrong!

I am sure you and the other guys of the Thaksin PR team can top that!

Raising eyebraows is the fact that the judiciary, which let him off the hook

in his assets case, then was doing "perfect justice" and he himself said some-

thing like: "I am sure there is justice can be done!"

Yes' It's the "Elite" who are up against him, sure, the poor and underprivileged

are all supporting this "poor man" to whom so much bad has been done by his envies!

Sure, Sir!

You sell lemons for oranges!

[animatic]

Yes, there is an organized and very formal method. It DOES NOT involve petitions open to the general public. It takes time. You must already be in PRISON and you must of course express remorse and ADMIT GUILT. Who does Thaksin think he is? The arrogance is ASTOUNDING. The more you get to know him the more there is not to like ...

For one he is the Zelaya of Thailand, just too bad the international community looked the other way when the generals decided to do a coup... Everyone know the petiton wont go anywhere in the legal systems of Thailand - much because the offices involved in the handling of petitions also is deeply involved in the powerplay of the junta themselfs.

Its purely a way to get publicity. And a good PR stunt it is. Just look at the panicing government.

Zalaya in Honduras defied a constitutional ruling of the country's supreme court. The supreme court ordered Zalaya arrested, which he duly was. The elected Congress expressed unity with the supreme court by voting to remove Zalaya from the presidency and appointed Zalaya's constitutionaly designated successor to the presidency. Don't even THINK of comparing the process in Honduras to a coup. The salient commonalities between Thaksin and Zalaya is their arrogance, abuse of power and their egomania. Each Zalaya and Thaksin needed to be checkmated.

Bad Apples, and oranges.

In the Honduras case, 2/3 of the government system decided the other third was acting illegally,

They gave fair warning and finally ousted the recalcitrant 1/3. He's still whining, but he isn't dead either.

In the old days they would have shot his ass.

In Thaksin's case, he was a care Taker PM acting like a Full PM.

And care takers DON'T got to the UN and make speeches like they are full PM's.

He was clearly on a big ego trip.

And without a doubt the western powers each had a dossier, about as thick as Thaksin's face x 20,

listing his corruption practicies and off shore deals. You think the big powers don't thoroughly

investigate other heads of state before doing business with them? Sure do, and deep too.

They made the obligatory genuflections to democracy and rule of law and against military take overs,

noted the extremely smooth and quiet nature of the take over, noted WHO were the only loud noise makers

afterwards, and went 'strangely silent' for most of the junta's time. Sure the FC and FM's made the standard

boiler plate condemnations, but never lifted a finger to help Thaksin return. They all knew his game too well.

Thaksin tried to make it seem he was chummy with Bush... who never said word one in his defence that I heard.

And that CLASSIC picture of Somchai sitting near Bush who was trying NOT to laugh,

just days before the lil red puppet was about to lose his PPPoopy shorts publicly.

Bush had a full report before he EVER got near that table.

Road apples and Oranges.

[hammered]

It is good PR for the reds.

However, here is the dilemma: a pardon is unpopular with many and no pardon is unpopular with many. The tactic itself raises the game immeasurably.

[animatic]

Red shirts to petition on August 17

By The Nation

Published on August 4, 2009

The red shirts will present their petition seeking royal pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to the palace on August 17, organisers said.

"There are more than 5 million signatures for the petition. Name checks will likely be completed around August 15 or 16, so the petition will be filed on August 17," said organiser Veera Musigapong.

The red shirts will organise a colourful march to the palace to present their petition, Veera said.

Included in the procession will be the petition placed atop a ceremonial bowl, a giant banner inscribed with 100,000 names and more than 1,000 marchers carrying the remaining signatures. He said the petition was legal, dismissing as futile government attempts to counter the campaign. "Nothing can stop the red shirts from submitting their petition," he said.

Veera said the government was trying to spread misinformation in a move to oppose the petition. He said the red shirts, in turn, had challenged the government to verify all the signatures.

Opponents of the petition risk offending the monarchy by trying to prevent people from airing their plight to His Majesty the King, he said.

Red-shirt co-leader Natthawut Saikua voiced suspicion that the opponents were mainly individuals involved in ousting Thaksin. He said rectors from 26 universities had erred in opposing the petition as they did when they spearheaded a wrongful move to cite Article 7 of the Constitution, seeking a royally appointed prime minister in order to overthrow Thaksin.

He vowed the petition would advance, regardless of the government's intimidation tactics.

-- The Nation 2009/08/04

And is this coincidence that Aug 17 is the

exact day of the Rubber Sapling court verdict???

One hand doesn't see what they other hand has done, n'est pas.

Voila; like magic!

[Scott]

The situation is two fold and the gov't is acting irresponsibily, as well as acting too late.

First, is the right to petition the responsible authority. I see nothing wrong with the signatures being gathered and presented to the Royal Household Bureau.

Second is the action which can or cannot be taken on behalf of those petitioning. This is up to someone other than the petitioners. But they are two separate actions.

If the gov't wanted to stop this campaign, it needed to act immediately after it was suggested. Not wait until several million signatures later.

Of course, the implications are greater than either the signatures or the action taken, but stopping the first won't stop further action. The outcome of the second action is a bit more difficult to predict, but I am sure the Royal Household Bureau and the Privy Council have a great deal of experience in this area.

[Jingthing]

Hmmm. An enemies list delivered on a platter! Richard Nixon must be doing a jig from the grave ...

[clausewitz]

Hmmm. An enemies list delivered on a platter! Richard Nixon must be doing a jig from the grave ...

This is right and I wonder how many supporters of Thasin have decided not to sign the petition out of fear of future retribution.

[animatic]

Hmmm. An enemies list delivered on a platter! Richard Nixon must be doing a jig from the grave ...

This is right and I wonder how many supporters of Thasin have decided not to sign the petition out of fear of future retribution.

I would easily assume this is so in equal or greater measure

in the event Thaksin ever stole power back.

An Albigensian Crusade against the Catahrs would be reasonable comparison.

"Are there not inoccent in this town?"

"No matter, burn them all, God will know his own."

[hammered]

Red shirts to petition on August 17

By The Nation

Published on August 4, 2009

The red shirts will present their petition seeking royal pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to the palace on August 17, organisers said.

"There are more than 5 million signatures for the petition. Name checks will likely be completed around August 15 or 16, so the petition will be filed on August 17," said organiser Veera Musigapong.

The red shirts will organise a colourful march to the palace to present their petition, Veera said.

Included in the procession will be the petition placed atop a ceremonial bowl, a giant banner inscribed with 100,000 names and more than 1,000 marchers carrying the remaining signatures. He said the petition was legal, dismissing as futile government attempts to counter the campaign. "Nothing can stop the red shirts from submitting their petition," he said.

Veera said the government was trying to spread misinformation in a move to oppose the petition. He said the red shirts, in turn, had challenged the government to verify all the signatures.

Opponents of the petition risk offending the monarchy by trying to prevent people from airing their plight to His Majesty the King, he said.

Red-shirt co-leader Natthawut Saikua voiced suspicion that the opponents were mainly individuals involved in ousting Thaksin. He said rectors from 26 universities had erred in opposing the petition as they did when they spearheaded a wrongful move to cite Article 7 of the Constitution, seeking a royally appointed prime minister in order to overthrow Thaksin.

He vowed the petition would advance, regardless of the government's intimidation tactics.

-- The Nation 2009/08/04

And is this coincidence that Aug 17 is the

exact day of the Rubber Sapling court verdict???

One hand doesn't see what they other hand has done, n'est pas.

Voila; like magic!

It steals the front pages and drives the corruption case finding to lesser headlines.

It is also an interesting date for leftists.

It also falls after August 12.

[Plus]

Reds can petition the King for anything they want. Unfortunately they don't understand that Thailand is a consitutional monarchy and so powers of the monarch are limited by constitution

I think you're not Thai when you say so.

The King has the right to pardon anyone who asks. Up to the King to consider.

This is not the first case people seek for Royal pardon. Other people have done that before.

The thing is that what reds want is complete and full reinstatement of Thaksin, not just a pardon in one case. He's got a dozen outstanding cases waiting for his appearance, and he is banned from politics for yet another case.

Reds don't want just one pardon, they want to award Thaksin victory against all his enemies in all cases in the past and in the future as well.

The situation is two fold and the gov't is acting irresponsibily, as well as acting too late.

First, is the right to petition the responsible authority.

There's no right to petition the King for anything you want. Petitions of this kind should be addressed to parliament. As for pardons - they must be asked either by serving convicts or their relatives.

If the gov't wanted to stop this campaign, it needed to act immediately after it was suggested.

It's not illegal to collect signatures, you can't stop people from doing so. And they were warned as soon as they started.

[rixalex]

The situation is two fold and the gov't is acting irresponsibily, as well as acting too late.

First, is the right to petition the responsible authority.

There's no right to petition the King for anything you want. Petitions of this kind should be addressed to parliament. As for pardons - they must be asked either by serving convicts or their relatives.

Amazes me that those on the red side express no reservations or concerns about throwing the most revered institution right into the middle of their latest political game.

Actually, second thoughts... no it doesn't.

[Scott]

Whether the institution is revered or not is a separate issue. That is where the petition is being delivered. If the institution believes that it is not within their jurisdiction of power, then they can forward it to the appropriate authority. Someone has suggested that is parliment.

[Plus]

I didn't suggest that parliament is the appropriate authority, I meant that's where people should submit their petitions if they have any.

There's no proper authority to grant reds what they wish. At most they can get Royal pardon for one case (forgetting about the rules for asking the pardon for a moment).

The rest of their demands must be formulated differently, then they can take it to parliament and ask for some amnesty law.

Actually they want one thing - Thaksin back in charge of the country, but the number of obstacles to this is staggering. Sometimes they just want to revert to 1997 consitution - that would easily overwrite everything that happened since the coup.

Unfortuinately, reverting to 1997 consitution can't be done legally, or democratically, so they came up with pardon idea instead.

[Jingthing]

I think they realize the only way for them to get what they REALLY want, Thaksin as total dictator for life is a violent revolution with the support of some military factions. This unfortunately is still possible. It would be more than other coup, it would be a total revolution and probably mean CIVIL WAR. If they ever achieved their sick twisted dream then they would have show elections, a la Chavez, for window dressing for the west. As bad as the current system may or may not be (it ain't great that's for sure) you really really don't want to see that here in Thailand ...

Edited August 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[Scott]

The point is that many of their grievances need to be addressed and it needs to be done in a systematic manner. Much of it has to do with giving a voice to the people. There are plenty of Red Shirts who do NOT wish for the return of Thaksin--probably more that do. But what systems can be put in place in the gov't that would satisfy that need without the actual man? That's the important question and the one that can be probably prevent a major crisis in the country.

The issue has start moving sideways--away from certain people and unto issues. Addressing those issues can help to calm things down a bit. So, let the petition be sent, let the Powers-that-be act on it or send it on. Then solve the next problem.

I mean the situation is positively scary. God help us if Thaksin returns and God help us if he doesn't--not a good situation.

[Plus]

Reds don't have any other grievances apart from restoring Thaksin to power, they don't have any other goals. They have tried to present themselves as being more than just one man's posse, but it failed to get any traction. Now they rally only around Thaksin, that motivates the foot soldiers a lot more.

When they were talking about democracy some even saw the possibility of their alliance with PAD. Thaksin couldn't allow that. They are HIS army, they can't get distracted on advancing democracy in this country, they need to stay focused.

[Samuian]

Amazes me that those on the red side express no reservations or concerns about throwing the most revered institution right into the middle of their latest political game.

Yep, whilst at the same time they claim: "we are here to protect the monarchy and democracy!"

It's utter nonsense, it's full to the brim with deception and lies!

This bunch is not about democracy, they are a disgrace to democracy and the country!

By the way there is a petiton against the LM Law online -

all in all it has managed to gather 17 Signatures, most overseas Thai!

The initiator's e-mail of this petition start with "che4ever...."

others added some political slogans to their signature, which tell volumes of the political

ideology they believe in or try to represent.

"funny" thing besides this, is that many deny the true identity of this "Che", who he really was!

Edited August 4, 2009 by Samuian

[ballpoint]

The point is that many of their grievances need to be addressed and it needs to be done in a systematic manner. Much of it has to do with giving a voice to the people. There are plenty of Red Shirts who do NOT wish for the return of Thaksin--probably more that do. But what systems can be put in place in the gov't that would satisfy that need without the actual man? That's the important question and the one that can be probably prevent a major crisis in the country.

The issue has start moving sideways--away from certain people and unto issues. Addressing those issues can help to calm things down a bit. So, let the petition be sent, let the Powers-that-be act on it or send it on. Then solve the next problem.

I mean the situation is positively scary. God help us if Thaksin returns and God help us if he doesn't--not a good situation.

Oh please. Why would anyone interested in democracy, possessing enough brain cells to be classified human, and not wanting to see Thaksin back, join an organisation whose leader's stated aim is to bring him back, whose orders come directly from Thaksin's phone ins, and that is gathering signatures to have him pardoned? The red shirts sole reason for forming was to attack the PAD and protect Thaksin. Their sole reason for continuing to exist is to bring him back. By any means necessary. This whole petition nonsense will soon be seen as what it always was, an excuse for more violence and civil mayhem by the red shirted thugs once it is justifiably thrown in the bin. Their plan to have Bangkok in flames, and the country in civil war, spectacularly failed over songkran, so now they're trying for the same outcome with a different catalyst. I bet Thaksin has got his squeaking little speeches for CNN and the BBC already prepared. I wonder if this time he's gained the intelligence to change them once it all blows up in his face again, and not mindlessly rant on about "his people" being killed when the only people being killed were those murdered by "his people".

[Samuian]

For the "little wanna be Napoleon" I highly recommend the Elba/St.Helena treatment under strict

electronic communication device sanctions - handwritten snail-mail only!

...and red shirt punks, petitions, unrest, violent attacks are history, Thailand will be Thailand again!

Edited August 5, 2009 by Samuian

[zzaa09]

I think they realize the only way for them to get what they REALLY want, Thaksin as total dictator for life is a violent revolution with the support of some military factions. This unfortunately is still possible. It would be more than other coup, it would be a total revolution and probably mean CIVIL WAR. If they ever achieved their sick twisted dream then they would have show elections, a la Chavez, for window dressing for the west. As bad as the current system may or may not be (it ain't great that's for sure) you really really don't want to see that here in Thailand ...

The revolution will be televised. And clearly sponsored...