george Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Thaksin supporters claim 5.6m signatures By John Le Fevre BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- United Front for Democracy (UDD) leaders told a mass rally of supporters at Sanam Luang last night that they had collected more than five million signatures from people in support of a royal pardon for exiled former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra. The mass signing came despite last minute efforts by the Government and opposition parties to convince people who had already signed the petition to sign another recanting their support. Veera Musigapong, one of the red shirts organizers, told a gathering that some put at more than 30,000, that 5.6 million signatures had been collected from all over the country. He also said the UDD will hold a protest at the Interior Ministry next Monday against Interior Minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul, whose Bhum Jai Thai Party is campaigning against the UDDs petition. On Thursday Chaovarat instructed local authorities nationwide to launch a counter-signature campaign for petition signers to recant their endorsement. Opposition to the petition also came from Chart Thai Pattana Party spokesman Watchara Kannikar, who urged people who had signed the petition to take the appropriateness of their action into consideration. Chaovarat claimed many people who had signed the petition now wanted to remove their names, so every province and district was instructed to set up a table for the people to recant the original signing. Red shirt supporters began gathering at Sanam Luang on Friday morning, building steadily throughout the day despite rainy conditions. The disgraced premier made another of his famous telephone calls to address his supporters, telling them, "I want to return your favour by working for you. If I can work to return your favour, I will be able to die peacefully". The Government has launched a belated campaign, including erecting huge billboards at major intersections and running television infomercials, explaining the petition has no legitimacy in law as a royal pardon can only be issued after a convicted person has served part of their sentence and admitted their guilt – neither of which the former prime minister has done. The UDD said it would take about a week to verify the signatures before submitting the petition to the king, a move that has outraged royalists for involving the monarchy in national politics and which could result in charges of causing offense to the monarchy to be laid against those submitting the petition. Thaksin skipped Thailand while on bail ahead of being convicted in absentia of corruption while in office last year, after being deposed as prime minister in a 2006 coup following his win in two back-to-back elections - the second with an outright majority amidst claims of the largest voter turn-out in Thailand’s history. -- thaivisa.com 2009-08-01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) "The disgraced premier...." A departure from "fugitive" Victimizing Mr. Thaksin and his huge electoral constituancy through two coups - the military one and as the RS claim, the judicial one, does not speak to disgrace, but to political opportunizing (is there such a word?). Quite a good balance in this report, quoting both UDD sources and the Governmental petition attack forces equally. "The Government has launched a belated campaign...." . I was also surpised at the ferocity of this "belated" campaign. It is a sign that they underestimated the whole thing from the beginning, and woke up to the reality quite late in the game. "Thaksin skipped Thailand...." They just couldn't resist an alternative to the fugitive thing. They try so hard to make a negative label stick to someone who is avoiding the remnants of the RS charge of the second coup, a judicial coup as they call it. So my earlier info. I received from my RS sources of 5.3 million signatories wasn't too far off. All the signatories coming from this region were so carefully vetted in-depth, insuring that no-one could claim illegitimacy of them. If other regions followed suit, there should not be too much concern about needing to do it at the national level. But further vetting wouldn't hurt. This petition must not appear to be tainted in any way, for it to carry any weight. Edited August 1, 2009 by Ferwert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Has anyone residing in Thailand seen a signature drive going on? I haven't, and I reside in a region of thoroughly duped Thaksin supporters. A signature gathering campaign should have unobtrusive people calmly requesting passers-by to sign such 'n such petition. Unless the pedestrian is well-acquainted with the issue-at-hand, that person should be calmly given some info and allowed to sign or to walk away without taunts or shouting. Questions can be addressed. I haven't seen any of that (either in a civilized or in a coercive manner) though I've just been kicking around in one city. My guess is the signatures claimed are bogus at best. There may have been a few thousand gathered at some Red Shirt rallies, but it's highly unlikely the campaign resembled anything like a real signature-gathering exercise. TIT, where nothing is as it seems, except overly spicy lifeless food, and ornate wats. Also, in a bona fine signature campaign, the signatures are gone over to see whether they're authentic. How long would it take to verify 5.6 million signatures (?) - especially in a land where a pizza delivery service can't find an address a few blocks from it's storefront, and most folks have never written or rec'd a letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Has anyone residing in Thailand seen a signature drive going on? I haven't, and I reside in a region of thoroughly duped Thaksin supporters.A signature gathering campaign should have unobtrusive people calmly requesting passers-by to sign such 'n such petition. Unless the pedestrian is well-acquainted with the issue-at-hand, that person should be calmly given some info and allowed to sign or to walk away without taunts or shouting. Questions can be addressed. I haven't seen any of that (either in a civilized or in a coercive manner) though I've just been kicking around in one city. My guess is the signatures claimed are bogus at best. There may have been a few thousand gathered at some Red Shirt rallies, but it's highly unlikely the campaign resembled anything like a real signature-gathering exercise. TIT, where nothing is as it seems, except overly spicy lifeless food, and ornate wats. Also, in a bona fine signature campaign, the signatures are gone over to see whether they're authentic. How long would it take to verify 5.6 million signatures (?) - especially in a land where a pizza delivery service can't find an address a few blocks from it's storefront, and most folks have never written or rec'd a letter. A signature campaign related to a legal recourse etc always has a specific body to check authenticity of signatures and usually the majoirty are OK with a percentage dubious. For this petition which I think is now described as a petition of grievance by Red leaders has is not done under any legal statute and hence does not have a designated chekcing body. It is more a political statement. I would guess most reds believe the number while most anti-reds would say it is exaggerated and neutrals may just be bemused. The main point though is what pressure does it bring and will it have political effect. One thing to remember is that the government needs some kind of reconcilliation deal to fare well in the next election whereas their opponets just need to keep division so government fails, so things like this are succesful even if seemingly unsuccesful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) and what do they want to achieve with 5.6 million (of course all verified as genuine) signatures? To compromise Thailand's most revered institution? the Red's should be ashamed! Edited August 1, 2009 by webfact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 and what do they want to achieve with 5.6 million (of course all verified as genuine) signatures?To compromise Thailand's most revered institution? the Red's should be ashamed! Yeah, this is one possible response, among many alternatives. Not sure if a response of this nature accomplishes anything though. Perhaps a more constructive option could be offered that is more feasible with reasonable chance of implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 and what do they want to achieve with 5.6 million (of course all verified as genuine) signatures?To compromise Thailand's most revered institution? the Red's should be ashamed! Today 5.6 million. Next week 15 million. In one month 25 million. And on and on until the reds claim every single Thai has signed in this pointless exercise. Who is impressed by these numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How much per signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How much per signature? I wondered what that truck doing the rounds shouting "hah baht, hah baht" was for. But, is that per signature, or what the whole thing is worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 and what do they want to achieve with 5.6 million (of course all verified as genuine) signatures?To compromise Thailand's most revered institution? the Red's should be ashamed! Today 5.6 million. Next week 15 million. In one month 25 million. And on and on until the reds claim every single Thai has signed in this pointless exercise. Who is impressed by these numbers? To call it a "pointless exercise" is the kind of dismissal of a huge constituency that doesn't achieve anything, and merely perpetuates the unaccepted status quo. It flies totally in the face of any opportunistic attempt at "National Reconciliation", if there is any desire for that to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How much per signature? A totally unsubstantiated drive-by swipe. You continue make these financially related charges but never offer the slightest evidence. I have been in the "eye-of-the-storm" with respect to this Petition Jingthing, and have never seen one baht exchange hands or even in consideration. I will treat your innuendo with respect jingthing, even though it doesn't have a shred of credibility, because I respect my fellow posters. For that reason alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) To call it a "pointless exercise" It is not pointless. The point is loud and clear. The red side is desperate and past all rationality. First a violent revolution attempt that FAILED MISERABLY. Now this ... flirting with core taboos of Thai unity. What next? I will treat your innuendo with respect jingthing, even though it doesn't have a shred of credibility, because I respect my fellow posters. For that reason alone. It is not mutual ... I don't respect true believers of any stripe. Edited August 1, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 To call it a "pointless exercise" It is not pointless. The point is loud and clear. The red side is desperate and past all rationality. First a violent revolution attempt that FAILED MISERABLY. Now this ... flirting with core taboos of Thai unity. What next? "What next"...an interesting question. What would you suggest that is positive, constructive and realistic. MC2 provided some input to this question. What about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Yes, what someone who is not a COWARD would do! Thaksin should GET ON A PLANE and face the justice system of his country LIKE A MAN. He claims he is like Mandella. Well, HE ISN'T! What will he really do? I think we all know that. Whatever sleazy thing he can do next that has a chance of continuing to stir up the dung. He is waiting for another grand opportunity to create complete anarchy and CIVIL WAR here like he tried to do over Songkran. Sadly, he might get that opportunity again. Of course he wants to take over the country and become the grand dictator. If Abhisit has a fault, it is that he has been too weak against this threat. Edited August 1, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP25 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How much per signature? Who knows, but you don't need to pay to make numbers up, or write random names on a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP25 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Has anyone residing in Thailand seen a signature drive going on? I haven't, and I reside in a region of thoroughly duped Thaksin supporters. I haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Has anyone residing in Thailand seen a signature drive going on? I haven't, and I reside in a region of thoroughly duped Thaksin supporters. I haven't. I concur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Maybe they get the same coupla thousand hard core fanatics at the rallies to sign AGAIN AND AGAIN ... The numbers are unbelievable considering that signing such a document flirts with you know what ... Sign early and often ... What the true believers don't get is that their leader and movement has NO CREDIBILITY. Edited August 1, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Update: Five million seek royal pardon for ousted premier BANGKOK: -- Anti-government protesters claim to have collected 5.4 million signatures petitioning for a royal pardon for convicted, ousted former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to be sent to the Royal Household Bureau before August 12. Supporters of fugitive billionaire Thaksin began gathering at Bangkok’s Sanam Luang on Friday to conclude their signature collection campaign seeking a royal pardon and by early Saturday they claimed to have collected over 5.4 million signatures, far more than the one million signatures they initially targeted. Leaders of the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) announced that they would first verify the names they had collected and then submit them within August 12. The UDD leadership said their members would rally again Monday at the Ministry of Interior to protest Minister Chavarat Charnvirakul’s opposition to the UDD campaign to seek a royal pardon for Mr. Thaksin, ousted in a bloodless coup in September 2006. Sentenced in absentia to a two-year jail term for violating the country’s conflict of interest law regarding his role in a Bangkok land deal last October, Mr Thaksin on Friday night again addressed a UDD rally by live video link and thanked his supporters for signing the petition. The much-traveled ex-premier told UDD supporters who started dispersing before dawn Saturday that he wished to return soon. Several parties including university professors have expressed opposition to the move, which they say is inappropriate and illegal. They said the law stipulates that only the convicted prisoner or relatives are entitled to seek a royal pardon. The prisoner must also have been serving punishment before asking for a royal pardon. But in this case, Mr Thaksin never returned to Thailand to serve his jail term. Dean Charas Suwanmala of the Chulalongkorn University Faculty of Political Science said a number of countries are now governed by a constitutional monarchy like Thailand and they do not grant royal pardon to corrupt politicians. What the UDD supporters are attempting is actually putting political pressure against a legal and institutional process, said Prof Charas, adding that the best solution is for Mr Thaksin to return to Thailand and fight the case in accordance with legal procedures. -- TNA 2009-08-01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Yes, this petition is ILLEGAL under Thai law. But we know how much the convicted fugitive leader of this travesty respects the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Has anyone residing in Thailand seen a signature drive going on? I haven't, and I reside in a region of thoroughly duped Thaksin supporters.A signature gathering campaign should have unobtrusive people calmly requesting passers-by to sign such 'n such petition. Unless the pedestrian is well-acquainted with the issue-at-hand, that person should be calmly given some info and allowed to sign or to walk away without taunts or shouting. Questions can be addressed. I haven't seen any of that (either in a civilized or in a coercive manner) though I've just been kicking around in one city. My guess is the signatures claimed are bogus at best. There may have been a few thousand gathered at some Red Shirt rallies, but it's highly unlikely the campaign resembled anything like a real signature-gathering exercise. TIT, where nothing is as it seems, except overly spicy lifeless food, and ornate wats. Also, in a bona fine signature campaign, the signatures are gone over to see whether they're authentic. How long would it take to verify 5.6 million signatures (?) - especially in a land where a pizza delivery service can't find an address a few blocks from it's storefront, and most folks have never written or rec'd a letter. My thoughts about the whole "campaign"..... it wasn't fraudulent as many of the other scams their master had pulled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Disguised as the wish of the people... ...it is an unlawful attempt to exercise pressure on someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Have people considered that Thaksin may have lost the plot? Remember the pitiful interviews he gave during Black Songkran? He is only a man after all, and his world has crumbled. Perhaps he is mad as a hatter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khonkaen man Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 To call it a "pointless exercise" It is not pointless. The point is loud and clear. The red side is desperate and past all rationality. First a violent revolution attempt that FAILED MISERABLY. Now this ... flirting with core taboos of Thai unity. What next? I will treat your innuendo with respect jingthing, even though it doesn't have a shred of credibility, because I respect my fellow posters. For that reason alone. It is not mutual ... I don't respect true believers of any stripe. 'The red side is desperate and past all rationality' I think you will find that b4 this desperation, there was the desperation of the coup and when this did not work we had 6 months of the yellows For right or wrong, if you dont 'flirt with core taboos of Thai unity' nothing ever changes. Please change the word unity for suppression. As other posters have suggested the LM law is the lid on the can of worms. Are the Dem sympathisers getting the picture......good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Anupong deploys soldiers to explain to people about Thaksin-pardon petition Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda said he has ordered commander of all army units to have their subordinates explain the correct procedures for seeking a royal pardon to the people nationwide. But Anupong said he realised that it would not be easy to change the mind of the people. Anupong took the action after the red-shirt movement announced that it had gathered over 4 million signatures to petition His Majesty for a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Several groups said it was inappropriate to raise the signatures for Thaksin-pardon petition as it could be seen as an attempt to involve His Majesty in politics. -- The Nation 2009/08/01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verydumbubba Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Do you suppose Mandella would not have left Dodge? Bubba He claims he is like Mandella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 So the same army that couldn't act to stop the airport debacle can suddenly deploy people to explain how signing a paper is wrong. Quite amusing actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Leaders of the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) announced that they would first verify the names they had collected and then submit them within August 12. It would help their cause if they had them independently verified. I am not sure that this can be done in a 12 day period however. Edited August 1, 2009 by hammered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 To call it a "pointless exercise" It is not pointless. The point is loud and clear. The red side is desperate and past all rationality. First a violent revolution attempt that FAILED MISERABLY. Now this ... flirting with core taboos of Thai unity. What next? "What next"...an interesting question. What would you suggest that is positive, constructive and realistic. MC2 provided some input to this question. What about you? 'What next' is easy to predict. The reds must stop this government because firstly the case of seizure of Thaksin's assets is proceeding with the verdict due in November. That could mean a big financial loss for the fugitive. Secondly, if the economy picks up, Apisit will get the credit. Thaksin will use his usual approach of fighting through Parliament, trying to delay bills, petition independent agencies over any possible infraction, ie elephant tusks, and on the streets- red thugs. The red thugs will give Apisit a perfect excuse to delay elections, for how can a true democracy come about in an atmosphere of intimidation? But it will be difficult for Thaksin to keep his barking dogs on the leash for long, for they love fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjie Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It does seem a lot, out in the villages where Thaksin seems to hold most sway there are lots of people who can't write. When they hand over the signatures is it likely that there will be 5 million 'X's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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