Moving Back To America. What Do I Need To Watch Out For?

[buzzer]

Hi,

I've lived in Thailand for 6 years. Now that Bush is out I'm moving back (to Hawaii). Having lived here, and learned a lot about the many ways the bureaucracies can mess with you. I would like to tap into your collective experience regarding some issues I feel might be arising. Sorry, but I've become somewhat less trusting of the way things are done here in my 6 years here.

I have a Thai corporation that I need to either transfer to someone who can use it, at a loss to me, or go through the process of closing it. Or just ignore it.

I was wondering if things I've bought in Thailand will be of any interest to Thai customs - going out, or U.S. Customs arriving there.

I have some investments that I can quickly sell and turn into cash. I have proof (in my bank book, anyhow) that the money I used to make the investment was from a foreign transfer to my Thailand bank. Then I withdrew almost all for the investment, then the investment I planned on didn't happen. Briefly - I was planning on buying a farm, and after studying a lot, and reading about bad experiences - especially here on Thaivisa, I decided not to go through with it. So the money I'll show going out is less than the money I transferred in. Still, I worry about putting it into cash, then back into the banking system only to find some authorities trying to give me trouble about taking it back out of the country. Is there a smarter way to do it? Perhaps getting a bank draft that I can put into a bank in Singapore that has branches in the US? Or should I go back to the main branch of the Thai bank I deal with, where I withdrew the cash last year, where all the bank employees initialed my withdrawals, and have them wire it back to the US?

As I'm already going to have at least a small 20' shipping container full of household goods, things I brought here 6 years ago, and things I bought here, would it be worthwhile to add some things I can buy cheaply here for sale in the US? What is needed in the form of an export license here, or import license in the US?

I hear all kinds of things about lowered airline seat prices, but I just don't see it! Any ideas of where to go for cheap prices one-way to Hawaii?

Is there any good reason to contact the American Embassy to inform them of my plans?

Any suggestions for a freight forwarder to see my stuff through customs, and on to Hawaii?

Thanks - Buzzer

[taxout]

I don't know the Thai rules, but for the US you have to declare cash or equivalent of US$10,000 or more when you arrive in the US.

There are some US customs duty exemptions for "household goods," but you have to check carefully what's included in that term.

You'll also have to worry about Hawaii's use tax; household goods of new residents are generally exempt, unless bought within a few months of the move or imported for resale.

Make sure your Foreign Bank Account Reports (described in other threads) are up to date; "bank account" includes a securities account for these reports.

[Jingthing]

It is truly disturbing that there are barriers to moving our own money out of Thailand.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[maccaroni man]

just curious how does GW make any difference to you? looking for higher inflation? higher taxes? or are you planning on going on the dole?

[walt]

just curious how does GW make any difference to you? looking for higher inflation? higher taxes? or are you planning on going on the dole?

That's a very good question, Mr. Maccaroni Man. I was thinking the very same thing.

Walt

[buzzer]

I don't know the Thai rules, but for the US you have to declare cash or equivalent of US$10,000 or more when you arrive in the US.

The problem is about taking money out of Thailand. I already have an account in the US, which exceeds $10,000 US.

There are some US customs duty exemptions for "household goods," but you have to check carefully what's included in that term.

You'll also have to worry about Hawaii's use tax; household goods of new residents are generally exempt, unless bought within a few months of the move or imported for resale.

These seem more like the laws applied when I moved into Thailand - the bulk of what I'll be taking back will be things I brought from the US 6 years ago. Just returning with it. Almost nothing I'll be returning with is new "made in Thailand" stuff. Anything I bought made here is either furniture, an old stove/oven, some electronic gear I imported (Made in USA). I considered researching solar panels to see if they're worth buying here - that would be a different story.

Make sure your Foreign Bank Account Reports (described in other threads) are up to date; "bank account" includes a securities account for these reports.

I have no Foreign Bank Account Reports as described in other threads - only the printouts in my bank books, and, if the bank has any computer logs of the transactions, and is willing to grant me access to them - This is one of the things I'm most concerned about.

Re: Other posters - I don't want this to go OT to discuss politics.

Please - if you're new to the topic, please re-read the OP. If you are familiar with the topics discussed, your expertise would be greatly appreciated. I would have posted in general topics, but less interesting topics often receive little or no attention there. Perhaps it would be better for me to break down each question into its own topic, and re-post each one individually.

Thanks - Buzzer

[taxout]

"The problem is about taking money out of Thailand. I already have an account in the US, which exceeds $10,000 US."

I'm pointing to a US Customs rule that requires you to make a declaration whenever you enter the US with more than US$10,000 cash or cash equivalent on your person. If you don't, Customs is authorized to seize it.

"I have no Foreign Bank Account Reports as described in other threads."

If you were required to file these and didn't, it's critical you get some professional advice now as to how to proceed. The penalties for not filing are draconian. As pointed out in the other thread, there's "sort of" an extension of the filing date to September 23, 2009 in some cases. If you're eligible for this extended filing date, you certainly want to take advantage of it. These forums are not a good place for detailed tax advice -- there are always comments that somehow muddle the issues -- so please get professional assistance on this question.

[buzzer]

"The problem is about taking money out of Thailand. I already have an account in the US, which exceeds $10,000 US."

I'm pointing to a US Customs rule that requires you to make a declaration whenever you enter the US with more than US$10,000 cash or cash equivalent on your person. If you don't, Customs is authorized to seize it.

Personally, I have no problem declaring it, it is all accounted for. I believe this is to protect against drug-money, ill-gotten gain, and money laundering, However, there is a clear trail of where my money came from.

If all goes well when I talk to my Thai bank, then I should be able to get a wire transfer from their NYC branch to my personal US bank account.

have no Foreign Bank Account Reports as described in other threads."

[/i]If you were required to file these and didn't, it's critical you get some professional advice now as to how to proceed. The penalties for not filing are draconian. As pointed out in the other thread, there's "sort of" an extension of the filing date to September 23, 2009 in some cases. If you're eligible for this extended filing date, you certainly want to take advantage of it. These forums are not a good place for detailed tax advice -- there are always comments that somehow muddle the issues -- so please get professional assistance on this question.

I think the key phrase is, "If you were required to file these... I don't know what category you have to be in to require you to do this. I think my lawyers - a pretty savvy bunch - would have told me if I was required to do so. I've never heard of this in 6 years here, filing my corporations taxes for 4 of those 6 years. As an individual - apart from my corporation, I don't see how they'd apply. The amount of money in question isn't huge. I just brought in a little more than usual to buy a couple rai of land up country and start a farm, but no matter the amount, I want to make sure that it all goes with me.

What I thought you were talking about earlier is something I've heard mentioned before in other topics at thaivisa, where, expats, upon receiving a foreign transfer of funds, also got a letter from the bank verifying the transfer. That's what I don't have. Only the printout in my bankbooks. In the bankbooks there is are 3 letter codes designating the type of transaction. If it says (If I remember correctly) 'FTF' next to it, it means Foreign Transfer of Funds. This means it's money I transferred from a foreign bank - personally by me. Though several million Baht over the last 6 years, (when compared with the amount remaining when I cash out, will be considerably less than was transferred in). This amount is what I've spent living here all this time. The rest is mine, and I should be able to do with it as I please. But Thailand is truly the LOS - Land of surprises.

I talked with the US Embassy today, and they thought it best for me to contact the bank first, and get the answers from them. The US Embassy also helped me better understand what to do with shipping all kinds of household goods, etc., back home, and what classifications things fall under if I bought it here, etc.

So, thanks for your advice, I'll have to find more out about the Foreign bank account reports. Perhaps this is not a matter of concern because everything has come in from my Thai bank in NYC wiring funds directly to my local branch of the same bank. What you mention is completely new news to me, however, and demands that I look more deeply into it.

Thanks, again - Buzzer

[taxout]

"As an individual - apart from my corporation, I don't see how they'd apply."

The FBAR rules apply not only to foreign "bank accounts" (as defined) which are in your name, but also to accounts over which you have signature authority or a financial interest. You need to file if the aggregate amount in these accounts exceeds US$10,000 (or equivalent) any time during the year. If you own directly or indirectly more than 50 percent of the value or voting power of shares in a corporation, then you are regarded as having a "financial interest" in that corporation's foreign "bank accounts," and must include them in your FBAR. See the FBAR instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

There are other issues which are too complex to discuss here. For example, as a controlling shareholder of a foreign corporation, you should also be filing Form 5471 ("Information Return of U.S. Persons with respect to Certain Foreign Corporations") and all or part of the corporation's income, if any, might be so-called "Subpart F" income to you.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5471.pdf

I do strongly suggest you consult your attorneys or accountants; note that a Thai lawyer would not necessarily be familiar with US tax rules.

[buzzer]

Ok - I finally got it! You're talking about US laws that don't apply to me, and all the while I thought you were talking about Thai laws that I have never heard of. I'm glad I finally figured that out. I was thinking I still had some unfinished business with the Thai govt. As far as me having a corporation here, it's basically been a sham, and a shame. I got a corporation years ago, when I still thought I would live in Thailand forever. It was solely to buy a shop house. I put a deposit down on it in the name of the corporation. When I saw how shoddily the shop house was being constructed I asked for them to return my deposit. This they did. I've never operated any business in Thailand, but kept the corporation, which has really lost a lot of money for me every year in paying bookkeepers to file my tax returns - tax of zero baht - of course because of zero income.

Thanks for the heads up - I was concerned there for a couple days. Now I know it was just a wild goose chase.

Thanks - Buzzer

"As an individual - apart from my corporation, I don't see how they'd apply."

The FBAR rules apply not only to foreign "bank accounts" (as defined) which are in your name, but also to accounts over which you have signature authority or a financial interest. You need to file if the aggregate amount in these accounts exceeds US$10,000 (or equivalent) any time during the year. If you own directly or indirectly more than 50 percent of the value or voting power of shares in a corporation, then you are regarded as having a "financial interest" in that corporation's foreign "bank accounts," and must include them in your FBAR. See the FBAR instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

There are other issues which are too complex to discuss here. For example, as a controlling shareholder of a foreign corporation, you should also be filing Form 5471 ("Information Return of U.S. Persons with respect to Certain Foreign Corporations") and all or part of the corporation's income, if any, might be so-called "Subpart F" income to you.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5471.pdf

I do strongly suggest you consult your attorneys or accountants; note that a Thai lawyer would not necessarily be familiar with US tax rules.

[taxout]

"You're talking about US laws that don't apply to me . . . ."

Assuming you're a US citizen or permanent resident, the rules I've discussed DO apply to you.

If you own a Thai corporation, for example, you should be filing that Form 5471 with the IRS every year. The IRS effectively views a foreign corporation like a foreign bank account -- someplace where you might be stashing assets -- and they want to know about it. If your company is dormant, there's a simplified filing procedure. In any event, the basic penalty for not filing a required Form 5471 is $10,000.

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i5471/ch01.html

And as I said, if you're required to file FBARs with the US government and haven't been doing so, the penalties are severe; in some cases they can be several times the amount in the accounts. That's why taking advantage of the amnesty of sorts by September 23 is exceptionally important. Of course it's important for anyone who hasn't filed before, but especially important for someone who's returning to the US and the easy reach of the IRS.

[buzzer]

Hi,

Sorry about taking a wrong attitude by what you said. I'm looking into it now, and am in touch with the last CPA I used before leaving the US, so that we can start clearing up any problems before they arise.

Thanks - Buzzer

"You're talking about US laws that don't apply to me . . . ."

Assuming you're a US citizen or permanent resident, the rules I've discussed DO apply to you.

If you own a Thai corporation, for example, you should be filing that Form 5471 with the IRS every year. The IRS effectively views a foreign corporation like a foreign bank account -- someplace where you might be stashing assets -- and they want to know about it. If your company is dormant, there's a simplified filing procedure. In any event, the basic penalty for not filing a required Form 5471 is $10,000.

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i5471/ch01.html

And as I said, if you're required to file FBARs with the US government and haven't been doing so, the penalties are severe; in some cases they can be several times the amount in the accounts. That's why taking advantage of the amnesty of sorts by September 23 is exceptionally important. Of course it's important for anyone who hasn't filed before, but especially important for someone who's returning to the US and the easy reach of the IRS.

[taxout]

Great!