How Many Years In Prison Does Thaksin Deserve?

[Jingthing]

The region has legitimate grievances but on the other hand, it is not the entire country either.

Oh, I forgot, a mere 20 million souls.

Keep 'em in their misery while the current government (all all before Thaksin) cater to the Bangkok elite.

Hardly. The region can no longer be ignored by any Thai political party. Thaksin's career (its now OVER) wasn't all bad. Its just that when you add it all up, its a horror show. Energizing Isaan and recognizing its potential political power was historic and Thailand will never be the same.

[dumbnewbie]

I think the Op needs to reflect on the words of Sir Winston Churchill, British politician (1874 - 1965)

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Actually, that's not true. Enlightened authoritarianism is highly preferable to many democracies. Compare countries with a history of enlightened authoritarian regimes like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. with democracies like the Philippines, Mexico, etc. Or compare the People's Republic of China (post 1978) with democratic India.

Furthermore, what exactly is "democracy" anyway? Do you really think Western countries are ruled "by the people, for the people"? I'd say that's pretty naive. Instead, Western democracies are actually highly sophisticated authoritarian regimes with a "democratic" circus clever enough to fool most of the people most of the time.

Every government is run by a small clique of elite families. In primitive governments everyone knows exactly who they are (North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Libya, Syria, Saddam's Iraq, Saudi Arabia and other GCC oil sheikhdoms, Zimbabwe, etc., etc.), while in more sophisticated governments, the elites keep themselves well out of the spotlight, which shines instead on "politicians".

[mc2]

I only question what are "wild and unproven" claims. I don't make an "accusation" unless the claim comes first. Claims are made every hour on Thaivisa, it's only the extremely doubtful ones, such as your PhD claim being offered up for the second time, that I pause to question. Again, in an effort to maintain some modicum of credibility for the forum.

you claim that you are not a paid poster.

i find that dubious and accuse you of being in the payroll of PAD and the burden of proof is now on you.

reason is, why would someone rack up such a high post count, spend their lives hounding, harrassing and abusing a man (and his wife and children) with no apparent return on investment ?

are you trying to lobby Thai Visa members by swamping them with anti thaksin propaganda? this is against the rules.

Edited August 8, 2009 by mc2

[simon43]

If you consider the voting so far, it's clear that about 40% strongly support Thaksin, 40% are strongly against him and the remaining 20% couldn't really give a dam_n either way.

About the same as the Thai population. And the retoric on this forum mimics the extremism on both sides of the political divide in Thailand.

This country has no chance of moving forward unless we accept 'the middle ground'

Simon

[sriracha john]

I only question what are "wild and unproven" claims. I don't make an "accusation" unless the claim comes first. Claims are made every hour on Thaivisa, it's only the extremely doubtful ones, such as your PhD claim being offered up for the second time, that I pause to question. Again, in an effort to maintain some modicum of credibility for the forum.

you claim that you are not a paid poster.

i find that dubious and accuse you of being in the payroll of PAD and the burden of proof is now on you.

reason is, why would someone rack up such a high post count, spend their lives hounding, harrassing and abusing a man (and his wife and children) with no apparent return on investment ?

are you trying to lobby Thai Visa members by swamping them with anti thaksin propaganda? this is against the rules.

yep.... PhD possessor, indeed.

I'll leave it for now to the forum to decide as to the validity of your claims to be Dr. mc2

We can return to it later in other threads, like what happened in February, until the point is reached where you realize no one is buying it and decide to cut your losses with a feeble attempt to dismiss it as just a humorous effort on your part.

[Geckos]

WOW I can not believe that there are people here that think that Block Head, Square Head, Toxsin or what ever you want to call it or him think he should go free !!! I bet if Hitler didn't kill him self you would also say he DID NOTHING WRONG AND SHOULD BE FREED !!

Toxsin should be stung up by the eye lids and kicked in his hairy beads til he BLINKS

[mc2]

^ glad to see you have decided to stop with your hijacking nonsense. now, care to make your first on topic contribution to this thread ?

Edited August 8, 2009 by mc2

[Ulysses G.]

I'll leave it for now to the forum to decide as to the validity of your claims to be Dr. mc2

Of course Dr. mc2 is a Doctor, but you are no doctor sriracha john!

Edited August 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[mc2]

hes got Dr envy for sure.

the member with the highest post count (the title he craves and desires so much) is also a Dr..... dr pat pong

Edited August 8, 2009 by mc2

[dumbnewbie]

Um... what were Thaksin's crimes again? Those of you who hate him so much, especially those of you who are not even Thai - why do you care? What exactly about Thaksin gets you so worked up? The fact that he and his wife may have been involved in some shady commercial transactions? That's no different from most Thai politicians, yet you're not worked up about the entire Thai political system - instead, you just hate Thaksin. So why? Is it because 3,000 drug dealers were supposedly executed during his time in office? OK, they should have been arrested, tried and jailed for life instead. But do you care as much about all the kids whose lives are destroyed by drugs? Or their families, friends, lovers, etc. who suffer from watching their loved ones struggling with addiction, disease and early, tragic death?

Help me understand why you guys hate Thaksin so much. I'm keeping an open mind, and will reserve my vote until I hear a lot more from both sides.

[Soutpeel]

Is it because 3,000 drug dealers were supposedly executed during his time in office? OK, they should have been arrested, tried and jailed for life instead. But do you care as much about all the kids whose lives are destroyed by drugs? Or their families, friends, lovers, etc. who suffer from watching their loved ones struggling with addiction, disease and early, tragic death?

Help me understand why you guys hate Thaksin so much. I'm keeping an open mind, and will reserve my vote until I hear a lot more from both sides.

Usually not interested in Thai politics, but quoted paragrphs require some comment..

Yes....and the operative word there is executed, which makes him no better than the people he has alleged to have had executed, they should have arrested, tried and imprisioned if found guilty..who made him judge, jury and executioner ???

If Toxic is really the saviour of the Thai people he proclaims to be, then he would be prepared to take a stand for those beliefs and even be prepared to go to jail for them, but instead he has done a runner.....certainly makes it very clear in my eyes what sort of person he is...

[rixalex]

Um... what were Thaksin's crimes again?

Some of the "highlights" are below (courtesy of member fxe1200.)

I truly hope that Thaksin can come home soon. Then the other open charges against him could be dealt with. Did the Reds forget all this, the damage he has done to Thailand?? Did they gone blind? Just a reminder - and this listing should have been shown to all of those, who signed this petition, beforehand. Here it is (Source: Bangkok Post):

Acts of dishonesty:

1. (Purchase of land worth 772 million baht from the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund.) - dealt with

2. Purchase of rubber saplings worth 1.44 billion baht by the Department of Agriculture, Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives.

3. Purchase of luggage conveyor belts and CTX 9000 bomb scanners.

Damage to state: 1.5 billion baht.

4. Issuance of two and three-digit lottery tickets by the Government Lottery Bureau.

Damage to state: 37.790 billion baht. +

5. Loans by Krung Thai Bank executives.

Damage to state: 5.185 billion baht.

Abuse of power to accumulate unusual wealth:

1. Change in agreement on revenue sharing for prepaid mobile phone services to benefit Advanced Info Service (AIS).

Damage to state: 71.667 billion baht.

2. Change in agreement on the rate of revenue sharing between TOT and AIS.

Damage to state: 700 million baht.

3. Issuing of an executive decree on telecommunications excise taxes, and a cabinet resolution turning concession fees into excise taxes.

Damage to state: 30.667 billion baht.

4. Instructing TOT to rent and invest unnecessarily in the satellite frequency of Shin Satellite.

Damage to state: 700 million baht.

5. Ordering Exim Bank to allow the Burmese government to draw loans amounting to 1 billion baht in order to buy products and services from Shin Satellite.

6. Using international trade negotiations to trade national interests for those of the satellite businesses of Shin Corp, adding considerable business value to Shin Satellite.

[IanForbes]

If you put Thaksin in jail then you have to put the whole Thai establishment in jail. The corruption runs from top to bottom. The leading party prior to Thaksin could have stayed in power. They were just too greedy to use the same tactics as Thaksin... pay off the voters. Had they thrown a few crumbs to the poor folks in the country they never would have lost out to Thaksin. Thaksin saw an opening, he had the money and used it to his benefit. Then, he also got too greedy and power hungry, and did the same as the previous party... game, set, match.

[mrissara]

I vote 15 years less than Suthep and Nevin.

If he deserve any, those two deserve 15 years more.

[dumbnewbie]

Um...another question. There's obviously a lot more to this whole Thaksin story. Who was behind him? He had close dealings with the Singapore government, and when he got in trouble in Thailand was given refuge in the U.K. of all places. Why the U.K.? And why did the BBC and CNN give him a forum?

The BBC is an interesting organization. They played a huge role in drumming up revolt against the Shah of Iran, leading to his ouster, and apparently also played a similar role in Iran recently, this time against the Islamist government they helped take power 30 years ago.

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

[Jingthing]

In the earlier time after the coup, the west was indeed sympathetic to Thaksin because of course western democracies cannot support military coups of any kind. That was a knee jerk reaction. Now that the world has had the chance to see the dictator for life wannabe's true colors, as in BLACK SONGKRAN, he has lost all support, or even the ability to travel to the major western democracies. Who engineered the downfall of Thaksin? THAKSIN.

Thaksin is not just another corrupt Thai politician. He is special. In a bad way. That's why most of us voted to put him in prison. Cheers.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[Moonrakers]

I only question what are "wild and unproven" claims. I don't make an "accusation" unless the claim comes first. Claims are made every hour on Thaivisa, it's only the extremely doubtful ones, such as your PhD claim being offered up for the second time, that I pause to question. Again, in an effort to maintain some modicum of credibility for the forum.

you claim that you are not a paid poster.

i find that dubious and accuse you of being in the payroll of PAD and the burden of proof is now on you.

reason is, why would someone rack up such a high post count, spend their lives hounding, harrassing and abusing a man (and his wife and children) with no apparent return on investment ?

are you trying to lobby Thai Visa members by swamping them with anti thaksin propaganda? this is against the rules.

I have two words for both of you: "Grow up"

[Soutpeel]

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

No....conspiracey theories again...

If this was the case why did the UK pull his visa, and why has the US refused him entry ?

He headed for the UK because:

1. Significant property in the UK and easy of getting a visa (which it is if you have money.. )

2. The UK has a reputation of harboring political despots under the guise of human rights, and basically are a soft touch, and any self-respecting dictator knows this...

Once he was convicted by a legal count in Thailand his visa privilages where pulled in the UK, as guess the UK didnt want to be seen as harbouring a convicted criminal..

Edited August 8, 2009 by Soutpeel

[sriracha john]

I'll leave it for now to the forum to decide as to the validity of your claims to be Dr. mc2

Of course Dr. mc2 is a Doctor, but you are no doctor sriracha john!

The operative difference being I don't claim to be.

[dumbnewbie]

In the earlier time after the coup, the west was indeed sympathetic to Thaksin because of course western democracies cannot support military coups of any kind.

Haha - good one.

[Samuian]

Um...another question. There's obviously a lot more to this whole Thaksin story. Who was behind him? He had close dealings with the Singapore government, and when he got in trouble in Thailand was given refuge in the U.K. of all places. Why the U.K.? And why did the BBC and CNN give him a forum?

The BBC is an interesting organization. They played a huge role in drumming up revolt against the Shah of Iran, leading to his ouster, and apparently also played a similar role in Iran recently, this time against the Islamist government they helped take power 30 years ago.

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

Secret member of the Skull & Bones Rap Team, regular secret meetings in "the Vault" @ the Yale Campus!

Member have to be masters in decied, compulsary liars, be at least billionaires,

ruled once a country, or still are and must have the strong ambition to rule the world!

that's why... plenyt of evidence!

[Jingthing]

In the earlier time after the coup, the west was indeed sympathetic to Thaksin because of course western democracies cannot support military coups of any kind.

Haha - good one.

Yeah, I see your point. They support existing coup governments when they serve their interests. But for PR purposes they can't be on record for supporting this way to take power.

When the last coup happened here and the Thaksin puppets were ejected, the USA made a big show of saying how Thailand had gone backwards in their progression towards democracy. However, you don't hear any pro Thaksin rhetoric these days from D.C.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[Garry9999]

In the earlier time after the coup, the west was indeed sympathetic to Thaksin because of course western democracies cannot support military coups of any kind.

Haha - good one.

[monkfish]

Um... what were Thaksin's crimes again?

Some of the "highlights" are below (courtesy of member fxe1200.)

I truly hope that Thaksin can come home soon. Then the other open charges against him could be dealt with. Did the Reds forget all this, the damage he has done to Thailand?? Did they gone blind? Just a reminder - and this listing should have been shown to all of those, who signed this petition, beforehand. Here it is (Source: Bangkok Post):

Acts of dishonesty:

1. (Purchase of land worth 772 million baht from the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund.) - dealt with

2. Purchase of rubber saplings worth 1.44 billion baht by the Department of Agriculture, Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives.

3. Purchase of luggage conveyor belts and CTX 9000 bomb scanners.

Damage to state: 1.5 billion baht.

4. Issuance of two and three-digit lottery tickets by the Government Lottery Bureau.

Damage to state: 37.790 billion baht. +

5. Loans by Krung Thai Bank executives.

Damage to state: 5.185 billion baht.

Abuse of power to accumulate unusual wealth:

1. Change in agreement on revenue sharing for prepaid mobile phone services to benefit Advanced Info Service (AIS).

Damage to state: 71.667 billion baht.

2. Change in agreement on the rate of revenue sharing between TOT and AIS.

Damage to state: 700 million baht.

3. Issuing of an executive decree on telecommunications excise taxes, and a cabinet resolution turning concession fees into excise taxes.

Damage to state: 30.667 billion baht.

4. Instructing TOT to rent and invest unnecessarily in the satellite frequency of Shin Satellite.

Damage to state: 700 million baht.

5. Ordering Exim Bank to allow the Burmese government to draw loans amounting to 1 billion baht in order to buy products and services from Shin Satellite.

6. Using international trade negotiations to trade national interests for those of the satellite businesses of Shin Corp, adding considerable business value to Shin Satellite.

They started with the best case they had, even that was very Gray.

There are 1000's of investigators thinking up crimes to pin on him....

[Jingthing]

Current results translated and approx rounded:

No jail -- 38 percent

Total jail -- 60 percent

Some jail - 5 years or less -- 5 percent

Stiff jail sentence 6 years to 30 -- 21 percent

Life sentence or multiple life sentence -- 34 percent

No opinion -- 2 percent

Edited August 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[dumbnewbie]

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

No....conspiracy theories again...

So there are no conspiracies? Ever? Everything is out there in the open, exactly as reported in the popular media?

If this was the case why did the UK pull his visa, and why has the US refused him entry ?

He headed for the UK because:

1. Significant property in the UK and easy of getting a visa (which it is if you have money.. )

2. The UK has a reputation of harboring political despots under the guise of human rights, and basically are a soft touch, and any self-respecting dictator knows this...

Once he was convicted by a legal count in Thailand his visa privileges where pulled in the UK, as guess the UK didn't want to be seen as harbouring a convicted criminal..

OK, but the U.K. also didn't arrest him and hand him over to the Thai government either, right? On the other hand, if Zimbabwe's Mugabe (for example) were overthrown and fled to the U.K., we would expect a very different reaction from the British government. Of course, Mugabe would never flee to the U.K. in the first place, but Thaksin did.

Governments do change course according to evolving circumstances. For the time being the U.K. and U.S. appear to have withdrawn support for Thaksin, but that doesn't mean they weren't behind him in the first place, hoping he would affect some kind of permanent regime change in Thailand. And it doesn't mean they aren't just biding their time now, waiting for things to play out, while in the meantime pretending to abide by the current Thai government's wishes.

I don't know anything - I'm just asking questions, trying to learn something. But taking the media at face value is generally a pretty naive thing to do. "Conspiracies", as you call them, are going on all the time. That's why every government has multiple intelligence agencies, to both counter and perpetrate "conspiracies", both domestic and foreign.

Edited August 8, 2009 by dumbnewbie

[Moonrakers]

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

No....conspiracy theories again...

So there are no conspiracies? Ever? Everything is out there in the open, exactly as reported in the popular media?

If this was the case why did the UK pull his visa, and why has the US refused him entry ?

He headed for the UK because:

1. Significant property in the UK and easy of getting a visa (which it is if you have money.. )

2. The UK has a reputation of harboring political despots under the guise of human rights, and basically are a soft touch, and any self-respecting dictator knows this...

Once he was convicted by a legal count in Thailand his visa privileges where pulled in the UK, as guess the UK didn't want to be seen as harbouring a convicted criminal..

OK, but the U.K. also didn't arrest him and hand him over to the Thai government either, right?

Because Thailand did not begin the extradition procedures required for that to happen, perhaps?

[monkfish]

Current results translated and appox rounded:

No jail -- 38 percent

Total jail -- 60 percent

Some jail - 5 years or less -- 5 percent

Stiff jail sentence 6 years to 30 -- 21 percent

Life sentence or multiple life sentence -- 34 percent

No opinion -- 2 percent

Don't forget this is Thai Visa and not the Thai People.

I think foreigners have more reason to dislike Thaksin than the Thai people.

[monkfish]

To those voting Life Sentence or Multiple Life Sentence, how do you justify your verdict?

[Moonrakers]

To those voting Life Sentence or Multiple Life Sentence, how do you justify your verdict?

I'd suspect that crimes against humanity hold quite lengthy jail terms. That's a charge unlikely to ever reach court though, unfortunately.