Civil Servants Told To Sign Government Petition Or Lose Jobs

[caf]

I was questioning John's Le Fevre's sources, and that was it.

Nothing slanderous towards him as a person that I remember.

But so far there is no corroboration that has been brought to my attention.

Corroboration DOES matter.

Nation and Bkk Post do get raked over the coals for bad reporting here too.

ESPECIALLY for relying on single source internet stories lacking corroboration.

Also i was being humorously ironic about the efficacy of Tweets as a viable news source.

But did that mention John, nope, it was referencing someone elses catch phrase

I WAS castigating the Thaksin tweets as a source for anything for sure.

Different kettles of fish.

But hey lump me in any group you want.

I'll believe news when I am more confident of the source. I have no confidence in this one. And why is Lost in Los taking up the banner? What motivation? I welcome newbies of course and they can contribute as much as the rest of us. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Plus]

How many replies do you get when you demand CNN or even websites such as TMZ reveal their sources or explain how they got a story?

You can't possibly compare CNN to john Le Fevre.

So far we have no clue as to John professional history, standards, journalistic ethics or integrity. Members have been feeling gaps with their own suggestions, like he's getting info from tweets. I, personally, think he's got a lot of friends who supply him with "facts". When nothing else is coming he simply rephrases news reports from other sources, like almost word for word sentences in a story about possible coup that I've seen in the Nation. It would be interesting if John's version appeared first!

[Orac]

I was questioning John's Le Fevre's sources, and that was it.

Nothing slanderous towards him as a person that I remember.

But so far there is no corroboration that has been brought to my attention.

Corroboration DOES matter.

Nation and Bkk Post do get raked over the coals for bad reporting here too.

ESPECIALLY for relying on single source internet stories lacking corroboration.

Also i was being humorously ironic about the efficacy of Tweets as a viable news source.

But did that mention John, nope, it was referencing someone elses catch phrase

I WAS castigating the Thaksin tweets as a source for anything for sure.

Different kettles of fish.

But hey lump me in any group you want.

I'll believe news when I am more confident of the source. I have no confidence in this one. And why is Lost in Los taking up the banner? What motivation? I welcome newbies of course and they can contribute as much as the rest of us. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Lost in Los appears to have taken the time to investigate the journalist in question and then form an opinion based on what he has discovered as opposed to the majority of posters on this thread who, in my opinion, not liking what has been said, have sought to sling mud and discredit him to attempt to divert the conversation away from what is actually being said.

Not entirely sure who the newbie is you are welcoming as you appear to one of the newest members contributing to this thread (especially since it looks like Ferwert has now been banned!).

[animatic]

I understand Ferwert left on his own, frustrated after

not liking an removal of an incorrectly formated post:

Commenting within a quote, and changing colors etc.

Not based on his content or arguments,

unless the mods let us/me know differently.

He felt he should have been told about this formating rule before.

I find tis something we just all learn ongoing.

Whatever.

Edited August 17, 2009 by animatic

[Insight]

Lost in Los appears to have taken the time to investigate the journalist in question and then form an opinion based on what he has discovered as opposed to the majority of posters on this thread who, in my opinion, not liking what has been said, have sought to sling mud and discredit him to attempt to divert the conversation away from what is actually being said.

Not entirely sure who the newbie is you are welcoming as you appear to one of the newest members contributing to this thread (especially since it looks like Ferwert has now been banned!).

I see our mistake now; we chose to investigate what the journalist was reporting on, and not the journalist himself.

Got it. Silly us. Owing to his immaculate background as stated by his new-found fan club, we'll take everything he writes as gospel from now on.

[sriracha john]

Le Fevre's article restores some faith in the integrity of this board. This is an excellent attempt at balanced journalism by "Thai Visa News". I commend them for it.

This subject matter will be increasingly corroberated in days to come. There were just too many involved and too much pressure exerted. Even 'Government Officials' pro-government inclinations are sorely tested by such arm twisting. It wont take much of a journalist's efforts in the near future to expose more details.

I just hope that all this 'smoke and noise' doesn't detract from the "legitimate" Citizen's supplication going forward and being considered solely on its' merits without all these frantic Govt'l illegitimate counter-measures clouding the process.

These coercive Govt. tactics have been observed on a broad front in this area for over a week now, but I didn't expect the English Language Media to report it.............But they did.

Be appreciative of this you Farangs, and thankful for some balance.

What does your alleged Thai Language media have to report on the threatening civil servants with their jobs? Please provide some links to corroborating stories.

I'm still waiting on any corroboration of another story in which it was also suggested we wait for as well, when it was questioned on whether or not a "pandemic" was actually occurring in Thai prisons and as yet there's been none in the past 11 days.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pandemic-AH1...26.html&hl=

Is this what is going to be expected now. Print the news and then wait a week to see if it's real?

Hammered, in addition to the facts in Le Fevre'e report, I heard an additonal piece of information, that puts all those individual actions of the "Governors" into context.

Apparently, all Governors were given marching orders to produce 100,000 signatures from their province.

Apart from the as-yet-uncorroborated "facts" in the OP, do you have any corroboration or even the source of your latest addition?

Additionally, a response from the questions put forth to you yesterday, that remain unresponded to, would be nice.

Refer to:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2942226

I guess we never will see those Thai language media reports confirming the OP nor corroboration of the new "100,000 signatures from provinces" claim.... at least, not from this claimant.

Edited August 17, 2009 by sriracha john

[clausewitz]

Umm To john

Don't worry about all these people slandering you.

I posted reports by Don Rather CNN , the Economist and even Time and you should have seen the scorn thrown at those articles. Of course the articles made one big error as far as our prolific posters at Thiavisa are concerned- they didn't sufficently love PAD or the Democrats.

Now if you had writen an article and made it sem that the Thaksin petition was all corerced then you would find yoru journalistic credentials to immediatly be very high indeed (according to the afore mentioned posters).

[animatic]

Not really, uncorroborated is just that.

John, fill in the blanks and we are happy to read,

whether we like it or not.

Of course we will likely also comment.

Edited August 17, 2009 by animatic

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I don't see why people get so huffy and precious about their opinions. The reason we all come to this site and post here is because we enjoy debate, not simply to read news - which we can find in many other (and perhaps more reputable) sources. Lao po and others who pour scorn on such debate are welcome to not join in, it is their right, as posting our opinions surely is ours. If we all agreed with each other then what is the point of being here? While I completely dissagree with many posters, I really do enjoy reading their opinions and get a kick out of responding. Surely that is the purpose of this forum. So it is perfectly legitimate to question a source which has not been corroborated by any other. The reds also thoroughly enjoy slagging off The Nation for its bias, and they have every right to do so too. Why do people get so high on their horses that they don't allow others the right of debate to which they excercise? I personally don't think that ThaiVisa should be posting it's own news, I think that impartiality is its key to its success, but I would welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions. And to respond to a debate a few pages ago, because I dislike Thaksin (and have done so for nearly a decade) does not make me at all supportive of PAD, I think they were awful. Two wrongs do not make a right. The reds are the immediate danger these days, if the yellows start playing silly buggers again I will jump onto the bandwagon and condemn them too.

[LaoPo]

I don't see why people get so huffy and precious about their opinions. The reason we all come to this site and post here is because we enjoy debate, not simply to read news - which we can find in many other (and perhaps more reputable) sources. Lao po and others who pour scorn on such debate are welcome to not join in, it is their right, as posting our opinions surely is ours. If we all agreed with each other then what is the point of being here? While I completely dissagree with many posters, I really do enjoy reading their opinions and get a kick out of responding. Surely that is the purpose of this forum. So it is perfectly legitimate to question a source which has not been corroborated by any other. The reds also thoroughly enjoy slagging off The Nation for its bias, and they have every right to do so too. Why do people get so high on their horses that they don't allow others the right of debate to which they excercise? I personally don't think that ThaiVisa should be posting it's own news, I think that impartiality is its key to its success, but I would welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions. And to respond to a debate a few pages ago, because I dislike Thaksin (and have done so for nearly a decade) does not make me at all supportive of PAD, I think they were awful. Two wrongs do not make a right. The reds are the immediate danger these days, if the yellows start playing silly buggers again I will jump onto the bandwagon and condemn them too.

....I poured scorn on the debate ?...... ...I am "welcome to not join in"...?

And, WHO are you Sao Jiang Mai -at least I write your name correct- to decide so?

I think you should start reading a little better and reread my initial and first post in this debate:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Civil-Servan...24#entry2942824

But, I'm relieved you wrote that fellow members are entitled to their own opinion and that you "welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions".

Maybe someone can open a window...strong smell inside.

LaoPo

[animatic]

You are welcome to join in.

You are welcome to not join in.

Some are welcomed more warmly when they don't join in.

Some make everyone warm when they join in.

Edited August 17, 2009 by animatic

[Plus]

..majority of posters on this thread who, in my opinion, not liking what has been said, have sought to sling mud and discredit him to attempt to divert the conversation away from what is actually being said.

I don't think "we" are slinging mud. Forgive us of being sceptical regarding news sources and media in general at this point in Thai development, and it's actually author's job to establish his credibility.

I think I know where the problem lies here.

Normally we assign some sort of "credibility index" to any news or source we come across and it depends on many factors. Friends and personal acquaintances, professional media outlets, rumors, government announcements, previous history - it all matters and we usually process this in milliseconds and unconsciously.

If the news has official appearance we tend to put it into "official" category, and that's where the main problem with John lies - his article is presented here at a level normally associated with "official" sources. It's not entirely his fault, btw.

So now we have this credibility gap between what we personally ascribe to John and how it appears on TV, this gap creates tensions as both sides tends to pull the others closer to their level and meet with resistance.

Nothing to worry, eventually we will negotiate a common understanding - either by agreeing on a common credibility level for John Le Fevre articles, or leaving the argument altogether as unproductive - like fighting over which color media is better.

[RickBradford]

The situation is clearly one of the following:

1. It's true

2. It's Thaksin's people disinforming

3. It's Abhisit's people pretending that Thaksin's people are disinforming

4. It's Thaksin's people disinforming that it's Abhisit's people pretending that Thaksin's people are disinforming

5. It's Abhisit's people pretending that Thaksin's people are disinforming that it's Abhisit's people pretending that Thaksin's people are disinforming

6. .....

7. ....

In other words, the product of gullible farangs believing they understand Thai politics.

[Orac]

..majority of posters on this thread who, in my opinion, not liking what has been said, have sought to sling mud and discredit him to attempt to divert the conversation away from what is actually being said.

I don't think "we" are slinging mud. Forgive us of being sceptical regarding news sources and media in general at this point in Thai development, and it's actually author's job to establish his credibility.

I think I know where the problem lies here.

Normally we assign some sort of "credibility index" to any news or source we come across and it depends on many factors. Friends and personal acquaintances, professional media outlets, rumors, government announcements, previous history - it all matters and we usually process this in milliseconds and unconsciously.

If the news has official appearance we tend to put it into "official" category, and that's where the main problem with John lies - his article is presented here at a level normally associated with "official" sources. It's not entirely his fault, btw.

So now we have this credibility gap between what we personally ascribe to John and how it appears on TV, this gap creates tensions as both sides tends to pull the others closer to their level and meet with resistance.

Nothing to worry, eventually we will negotiate a common understanding - either by agreeing on a common credibility level for John Le Fevre articles, or leaving the argument altogether as unproductive - like fighting over which color media is better.

I think we are both coming from the same place on this. I accept the validity of the report based the following reasons:

1. John Le Fevre is an experienced journalist who has operated in Africa and Asia for a number of years (I know you could argue that I got this from his own website but the articles he has written are there and stand up to MY scrutiny).

2. Thai Visa have published the article under the Thai News Banner - I personally would class Thai Visa as a 'trusted source' and, in view of forum rules and moderation have faith that an inflamatory article such as this would not be 'offically' recognised without some scrutiny.

3. A poster has already corroberated the article (PoliteExpat) by confirming he knows people who have been pressured to sign said petition.

4. The story itself is perfectly credible.

Clearly everyone has differing standards and definitions of corroberation - I am accepting Johns report as 'official' as per your post whereas you, as is your perogative, are not. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Maestro]

A nonsensical post about a toxin has been deleted.

--

Maestro

[caf]

I was questioning John's Le Fevre's sources, and that was it.

Nothing slanderous towards him as a person that I remember.

But so far there is no corroboration that has been brought to my attention.

Corroboration DOES matter.

Nation and Bkk Post do get raked over the coals for bad reporting here too.

ESPECIALLY for relying on single source internet stories lacking corroboration.

Also i was being humorously ironic about the efficacy of Tweets as a viable news source.

But did that mention John, nope, it was referencing someone elses catch phrase

I WAS castigating the Thaksin tweets as a source for anything for sure.

Different kettles of fish.

But hey lump me in any group you want.

I'll believe news when I am more confident of the source. I have no confidence in this one. And why is Lost in Los taking up the banner? What motivation? I welcome newbies of course and they can contribute as much as the rest of us. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Lost in Los appears to have taken the time to investigate the journalist in question and then form an opinion based on what he has discovered as opposed to the majority of posters on this thread who, in my opinion, not liking what has been said, have sought to sling mud and discredit him to attempt to divert the conversation away from what is actually being said.

Not entirely sure who the newbie is you are welcoming as you appear to one of the newest members contributing to this thread (especially since it looks like Ferwert has now been banned!).

I have no problem with Newbies as I said in my post but how many posts has Lost in Los made and what is his motivation. Also look at some of the lother threads Photojourn has actually posted and make you own mind up. No-one is slinging mud - in fact I have asked and so have othersw for his sources and his journalistic background.

[caf]

I'll believe news when I am more confident of the source. I have no confidence in this one. And why is Lost in Los taking up the banner? What motivation?

I welcome newbies of course and they can contribute as much as the rest of us.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

..spoke the 5 months old "patronizing" baby member Caf, who: Joined: 2009-03-10....

LaoPo

Oh I see.. With 10828 posts you are right and others are wrong.

I actually support what you are trying to say on this thread - le fevre has not sepite his fan club prove dhis credibility. he is not now even replying to points made to him.

Your problem Laopo is you don't respect other people's opinions. You worry about face more than the average Thai.

[caf]

..majority of posters on this thread who, in my opinion, not liking what has been said, have sought to sling mud and discredit him to attempt to divert the conversation away from what is actually being said.

I don't think "we" are slinging mud. Forgive us of being sceptical regarding news sources and media in general at this point in Thai development, and it's actually author's job to establish his credibility.

I think I know where the problem lies here.

Normally we assign some sort of "credibility index" to any news or source we come across and it depends on many factors. Friends and personal acquaintances, professional media outlets, rumors, government announcements, previous history - it all matters and we usually process this in milliseconds and unconsciously.

If the news has official appearance we tend to put it into "official" category, and that's where the main problem with John lies - his article is presented here at a level normally associated with "official" sources. It's not entirely his fault, btw.

So now we have this credibility gap between what we personally ascribe to John and how it appears on TV, this gap creates tensions as both sides tends to pull the others closer to their level and meet with resistance.

Nothing to worry, eventually we will negotiate a common understanding - either by agreeing on a common credibility level for John Le Fevre articles, or leaving the argument altogether as unproductive - like fighting over which color media is better.

I agree with you but with fewer posts than Laopo he might start knocking you as a newbie too.

Your point about the author being responsible for proving his credibility hits the nail on the head.

[Orac]

I have no problem with Newbies as I said in my post but how many posts has Lost in Los made and what is his motivation. Also look at some of the lother threads Photojourn has actually posted and make you own mind up. No-one is slinging mud - in fact I have asked and so have othersw for his sources and his journalistic background.

Why on earth do you now need to know Lost in Los 'motivation'. He made a very clear post after having looked into the background of John Le Fevre, - something which you are advocating that we do but clearly haven't done yourself as you are still asking for details rather than making the effort to look yourself.

Your attempt to brand him as a newbie is truly pathetic and patronizing particularly since he has been a member here nearly twice as long as yourself

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I don't see why people get so huffy and precious about their opinions. The reason we all come to this site and post here is because we enjoy debate, not simply to read news - which we can find in many other (and perhaps more reputable) sources. Lao po and others who pour scorn on such debate are welcome to not join in, it is their right, as posting our opinions surely is ours. If we all agreed with each other then what is the point of being here? While I completely dissagree with many posters, I really do enjoy reading their opinions and get a kick out of responding. Surely that is the purpose of this forum. So it is perfectly legitimate to question a source which has not been corroborated by any other. The reds also thoroughly enjoy slagging off The Nation for its bias, and they have every right to do so too. Why do people get so high on their horses that they don't allow others the right of debate to which they excercise? I personally don't think that ThaiVisa should be posting it's own news, I think that impartiality is its key to its success, but I would welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions. And to respond to a debate a few pages ago, because I dislike Thaksin (and have done so for nearly a decade) does not make me at all supportive of PAD, I think they were awful. Two wrongs do not make a right. The reds are the immediate danger these days, if the yellows start playing silly buggers again I will jump onto the bandwagon and condemn them too.

....I poured scorn on the debate ?...... ...I am "welcome to not join in"...?

And, WHO are you Sao Jiang Mai -at least I write your name correct- to decide so?

I think you should start reading a little better and reread my initial and first post in this debate:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Civil-Servan...24#entry2942824

But, I'm relieved you wrote that fellow members are entitled to their own opinion and that you "welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions".

Maybe someone can open a window...strong smell inside.

LaoPo

Not a very nice reply there Laopo!

Right, first of all WHO am I? Who are you? Isn't that the point of an annonymous forum? But because I have nothing to hide, my name is Pim Kemasingki - Google it.

Secondly I read very well thank you (if you did Google me, you will see that that is my job), and I still don't think that you respect that others have a differing opinion.

Thirdly, however erroneous your opinions and facts are, you are stil entiled to them, and if you have ever been to Chiang Mai or the north of Thailand - and if you did indeed Google me - then you will know that northern people prounouce Chiang Mai as Jiang Mai, and that I do indeed know how to spell Chiang Mai. Not that my nickname here, or its spelling, is relevent to this discussion in any way.

And lastly, 'open a window' - seriously? Are we five? You are going to call me stinky next?

Please try not to be so rude to other posters and lets get back to the debate. Thank you.

[MiG16]

To further improve the quality of the ongoing political debate we ask members to abide by the following rules when posting:

- discuss the topic, not the person who posted.

- respect each others point of views

I guess it means we should judge John's articles on their own merit and on his own history, just as with any other news source.

Lost in Los appears to have taken the time to investigate the journalist in question and then form an opinion based on what he has discovered

It seems people are more interested in discussing the mechanism of how thaivisa brings the news. from what I have seen thaivisa tries to and allows various sources of news to be presented on the forum for discussion.

i have seen some posts here already attempt to answer the question of how journalists should not reveal their sources (unless with explicit permission from the source I suppose). yet there continues to be posts demanding that John le Fevre discloses his source. IF he did, wouldnt that in fact confirm him to be an unscrupulous journalist? yet he is being accused for trying to uphold journalistic standards?

having said that, I do see that since this is a community (meaning every member is a part of it), and hence perhaps people feel more affiliated with what is being reported under the thaivisa banner, and want to scrutinise it. (just making assumptions here).

my suggestion would be: start a thread in the support forum, and do all your questioning about whether or not and how /through what means thaivisa should bring the news to its members.

all the above I posted are my opinions as a member, not as MOD.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

now, as a MOD, I suggest everyone stays on topic and discuss the topic at hand. any further off topic remarks will be deleted

cheers

[Plus]

It seems people are more interested in discussing the mechanism of how thaivisa brings the news.

Not at all, we are interested in how much credibility we should lend John Le Fevre. We don't spend so much time [anymore] discussing credibility of The Nation or any other sources, but John is different - he is new and his articles are posted under Thaivisa News banner, which is an unknown entity yet.

We are not asking him to disclose his sources, just show how he obtained his information. His partial reply wasn't fully satisfactory, at least to me.

[MiG16]

well I suggest the best way to try and find that out, if some aspects of it can be revealed, is to ask in forum support.

the news thread should be used to discuss the subject of the news, not the author of the news. I would make that same suggestion were the news coming from Bangkok Post, or Nation, or Far Eastern, or Economist, or whatever other source.

I suppose I can to some extent understand the need for people to question authenticity of news, however, if we allow that questioning to continue in every piece of article written by any author, we lose the purpose of posting any topic on this forum. as any topic written by say: the XXX, YYY, ZZZ, will then turn into a discussion of the integrity or credibility of journalists. hence my earlier, and repeated suggestion that: take up the issue in forum support.

I hope this is the last we see of this questioning on this thread. if people dont have any further views / snippets to share on the likelihood of whether or not civil servants may or may not be coerced to sign petitions, then I suggest there is no need to post further on this thread.

fairly logical to me.

(by the way - asking someone HOW they got certain information, to my limited English skill - translates also as the how of it will include who their sources of information are. how else do you expect him to answer that question? I think he already mentioned he interviewed some people, ie. civil servants in the north and northeast, short of revealing who the specific people are I cant think of how else he could have tried to answer that question without revealing the details of his source and compromising them)

[scorecard]

Still no 'noise' from the udd/red shirts about the alleged petition to rebutt the red shirt pardon petition.

To me this speaks volumes.

I'm hard pressed to believe that PM Abhisit would have sanctioned such a petition and I can't believe he would have allowed any scenario whereby public servants etc., were forced to sign.

If his collation partners (some of whom are fairly brainless and I wouldn't trust many of them) did start up such a petition, I'm confident Abhisit would have squashed it immediately.

I repeat, where the 'noise' from the udd/red shirts?

[Thai at Heart]

Still no 'noise' from the udd/red shirts about the alleged petition to rebutt the red shirt pardon petition.

To me this speaks volumes.

I'm hard pressed to believe that PM Abhisit would have sanctioned such a petition and I can't believe he would have allowed any scenario whereby public servants etc., were forced to sign.

If his collation partners (some of whom are fairly brainless and I wouldn't trust many of them) did start up such a petition, I'm confident Abhisit would have squashed it immediately.

I repeat, where the 'noise' from the udd/red shirts?

Faaaarrrt!

Is that enough noise for you. If you understand how stupid it is that there is a government "sponsored" petition against a supposedly illegal petition it doesn't need any more noise.

After the initial report and messages where people gave their opinions and some first or second hand evidence, the whole thread descended into critiquing the reporter which is a rather pedantic way to discuss a story.

Do I believe it is possible the civil service was "commandeered"? Yes.

Do I have absolute first hand proof? No.

Do I believe people actually get bought to vote of people in elections in Thailand? Yes.

Do I have absolute first hand proof? No.

Empty vessels make the most noise, but this is not a shouting contest the last time I looked. How does one MAKE NOISE IN A WRITTEN FORUM?

Apologies for shouting.

[scorecard]

It seems people are more interested in discussing the mechanism of how thaivisa brings the news.

Not at all, we are interested in how much credibility we should lend John Le Fevre. We don't spend so much time [anymore] discussing credibility of The Nation or any other sources, but John is different - he is new and his articles are posted under Thaivisa News banner, which is an unknown entity yet.

We are not asking him to disclose his sources, just show how he obtained his information. His partial reply wasn't fully satisfactory, at least to me.

I agree totally.

It seems to me that this site has , overall, a desire for and an actual good picture of professional operation and strong credibility.

Further, I would like to think that articles which appear under the "ThaiVisa News" banner, or in the 'Thailand News Clippings' thread have come from sources which have journalist professionalism and credibility and these artilces, in line with standard journalistic ethics, have been verified for accuracy.

So far I'm far from convinced.

In regard to the article about civil servants being forced to sign the petition to decry red shirt pardon petition, where is some outcry from the udd/red shirts?. It seems to me that the udd/red shirst would have tried to make big mileage out of this even if there was even a little smoke. I repeat, where the 'noise' from the red shirst, I can't hear any!

With respect to the moderators / the owners / directors , I would appreciate some comment, please.

[Insight]

well I suggest the best way to try and find that out, if some aspects of it can be revealed, is to ask in forum support.

the news thread should be used to discuss the subject of the news, not the author of the news. I would make that same suggestion were the news coming from Bangkok Post, or Nation, or Far Eastern, or Economist, or whatever other source.

I suppose I can to some extent understand the need for people to question authenticity of news, however, if we allow that questioning to continue in every piece of article written by any author, we lose the purpose of posting any topic on this forum. as any topic written by say: the XXX, YYY, ZZZ, will then turn into a discussion of the integrity or credibility of journalists. hence my earlier, and repeated suggestion that: take up the issue in forum support.

I hope this is the last we see of this questioning on this thread. if people dont have any further views / snippets to share on the likelihood of whether or not civil servants may or may not be coerced to sign petitions, then I suggest there is no need to post further on this thread.

fairly logical to me.

(by the way - asking someone HOW they got certain information, to my limited English skill - translates also as the how of it will include who their sources of information are. how else do you expect him to answer that question? I think he already mentioned he interviewed some people, ie. civil servants in the north and northeast, short of revealing who the specific people are I cant think of how else he could have tried to answer that question without revealing the details of his source and compromising them)

MiG16 - are you serious about this?

[LaoPo]

I'll believe news when I am more confident of the source. I have no confidence in this one. And why is Lost in Los taking up the banner? What motivation?

I welcome newbies of course and they can contribute as much as the rest of us.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

..spoke the 5 months old "patronizing" baby member Caf, who: Joined: 2009-03-10....

LaoPo

Oh I see.. With 10828 posts you are right and others are wrong.

I actually support what you are trying to say on this thread - le fevre has not sepite his fan club prove dhis credibility. he is not now even replying to points made to him.

Your problem Laopo is you don't respect other people's opinions. You worry about face more than the average Thai.

1. The number of posts has nothing to do with being right or wrong. YOU are creating a difference by writing a patronizing comment about another poster.

If you would have known me a bit longer than the mere 5 months you are a member now, you would known that I have no problems in admitting if I'm wrong. I did before and will do so again if I'm wrong. That's a lot more than the majority of members would ever do...admitting they're wrong...

2. I do respect others more than you could imagine. However, I do have a problem with your patronizing attitude which you not only show in this thread but other threads as well.

What gives you the self awarded right to patronize another member who has less posts than you but is a member since December 2008 and you since March 2009 ? Is he less of a member than you ?

I would NEVER write such a patronizing sentence as you did; see above.........."....they can contribute as much as the rest of us"

When does "the rest of us" start and become as important as you are ? After 100 posts or your 500+ posts ?

Give me a break.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I don't see why people get so huffy and precious about their opinions. The reason we all come to this site and post here is because we enjoy debate, not simply to read news - which we can find in many other (and perhaps more reputable) sources. Lao po and others who pour scorn on such debate are welcome to not join in, it is their right, as posting our opinions surely is ours. If we all agreed with each other then what is the point of being here? While I completely dissagree with many posters, I really do enjoy reading their opinions and get a kick out of responding. Surely that is the purpose of this forum. So it is perfectly legitimate to question a source which has not been corroborated by any other. The reds also thoroughly enjoy slagging off The Nation for its bias, and they have every right to do so too. Why do people get so high on their horses that they don't allow others the right of debate to which they excercise? I personally don't think that ThaiVisa should be posting it's own news, I think that impartiality is its key to its success, but I would welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions. And to respond to a debate a few pages ago, because I dislike Thaksin (and have done so for nearly a decade) does not make me at all supportive of PAD, I think they were awful. Two wrongs do not make a right. The reds are the immediate danger these days, if the yellows start playing silly buggers again I will jump onto the bandwagon and condemn them too.

....I poured scorn on the debate ?...... ...I am "welcome to not join in"...?

And, WHO are you Sao Jiang Mai -at least I write your name correct- to decide so?

I think you should start reading a little better and reread my initial and first post in this debate:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Civil-Servan...24#entry2942824

But, I'm relieved you wrote that fellow members are entitled to their own opinion and that you "welcome anyone who doesn't share my opinions".

Maybe someone can open a window...strong smell inside.

LaoPo

Not a very nice reply there Laopo!

Right, first of all WHO am I? Who are you? Isn't that the point of an annonymous forum? But because I have nothing to hide, my name is xxxxxxxx

Please try not to be so rude to other posters and lets get back to the debate. Thank you.

...Not a nice reply......me, being rude ....? to someone who starts writing about me "I poured scorn on the debate" ? Who writes I'm "welcome to not join in"?

What a world.

PS: I was asking "Who are you?" as a rhetorical question but maybe that escaped you since I have no interest whatsoever to search who you are.

LaoPo

[Yoshitaka]

Must I have 100 posts or 500+ posts to be heard?