A Bangkok Hospital Charges A Patient Bt3 Million

[george]

TYPE A (H1N1)

Bangkok hospital charges a patient Bt3 million

BANGKOK: -- The Medical Malpractice Victims' network yesterday said a private hospital in Bangkok charged Bt3 million for treatment of a patient with typeA (H1N1) influenza who later died, apparently due to delayed treatment.

The network's chairperson, Preeyanant Lorsermwattana, said she recently received a complaint from an older sister of a 28 year-old-man who was infected with the new flu virus and later died.

She was speaking at a seminar entitled "People and the way to handle the pandemic of toeA (H1N1) flu 2009" organised by the National Economic and Social Advisory Council.

She explained that the man had developed flulike symptoms, including a high fever, and was admitted at a private hospital in Bang Na district. A doctor injected him with medicine and told him to stay at home. But a day later he had a high fever again and was rushed to the same hospital. The hospital transferred him to another private hospital nearby.

The patient was admitted to the second hospital for a few days but his symptoms did not improve. His relatives wanted to transfer him to another private hospital in Bangkok but the second hospital did not want to do that and did not give any reason for keeping him at the hospital.

His relatives asked the second hospital to copy the man's medical records and send them to the third hospital. to other private hospital to seeking for the better treatment. They say they sent the patient medical record to a fivestar hospital in Bangkok but got a response from another private hospital, this one in the Sukhumvit area.

They say the man was transferred to this hospital and admitted for four days but his symptoms developed into a severe condition. His relatives now wanted to transfer him to Siriraj Hospital

For the cost of medical treatment only at the private hospital in the Sukhumvit area, his sister had to pay Bt2 million. She had to sell cars and houses to gain money to save her younger brother' life. But he later died, without having been transฌferred to Siriraj.

Dr Auechart Kanchanapitak, president of the Private Hospitals Association, did not give any details as to how the association controlled the price of medical treatment for patient with this year's admitted to private hospitals.

He suggested that patients should go to a hospital where they have registered under the government's healthcare services, including the universal healthcare scheme, the social security fund and the civil servants medical benefits programme.

"When you go to a private hospital you already known that you will pay a lot of money and this is your choice," he said.

"If you don't want to pay a lot of money for medical treatment at a private hospital you just go to a hosฌpital where you have the right to access free treatment," he added.

Dr Tawatchai Vanichkorn, direcฌtor of Kasemrad Prachachuen Hospital, told The Nation that the normal rate of influenza treatment for an inpatient at a private hospital was Bt20,000 a day while the cost for admission to an intensive care unit and use of a respirator was Bt50,000.

-- The Nation 2009-08-15

[norwayeagle]

The Cleanup squad is on the way.A "crackdown" is on the need.

[Loaded]

Treatment is always more profitable than cure. Privatised health systems and pharmacutical companies spend a lot of money lobbying your representative in Washington or London to make sure it stays this way.

[gmac]

Methinks some of these hospitals need to start charging on a no result no fee basis. Maybe then some of their patients might survive!

[dale8]

Hello, may the victim rest in peace and my hope and prayers for his family. The hospitals can charge whatever they want as not many people contest the costs of making their loved ones healthy, but this story illustrates how they can abuse the power they hold, and in the least it is negligent for not doing enough to help according to this story. It is a lesson people should learn that private hospitals do not always give better treatment, and this strain of the flu should be a concern for all.

[bf2002]

Treatment is always more profitable than cure. Privatised health systems and pharmacutical companies spend a lot of money lobbying your representative in Washington or London to make sure it stays this way.

This happened in Thailand! Not America.

I've never seen costs like this at Bangkok Pattaya or more importantly Bumrumgrad. You'd think the influenza shots would be cheaper since they are distributed to developing nations at lower costs.

I ran into one "private hospital" geared more towards Thais, and the quality was very low, as were the facilities, for the cost. They wanted prices like those of a real high international quality hospital with Western facilities like Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, but the care was sub-par and the building was old and ratty looking.

I'm suprised Thais willing to pay Western costs don't go straight to Bumrumgrad in Bangkok.

[animatic]

Bumrungrad has very reasonable prices in my experience and does fine work.

Just estimated something vs Bangkok Hospital and it was hands down the best deal.

No issues on quality based on experience.

Not sure if this is the 5 star hospital in question, but it is in that area.

But it really doesn't sound like the place.

Still sounds like this poor fellow was ignored or improperly treated early on,

and by the time he got to quality medical care he was beyond even heroic measures...

which MAY have been tried at high cost by a desperate family.

All in all sad. But $70,000 / 2 mil seems pretty steep for a day or two in hospital.

Edited August 15, 2009 by animatic

[foxxx]

does seem expensive for such a short time frame.

[mrtoad]

Having seen some of there operational procedures in a work related role, I wouldn't touch that particular hospital with a barge pole. Plenty of better hospitals around, with better prices.

[animatic]

Also MOD's if this was NOT at Bangkok Hospital itself,

which IS a real hospitals name...

Then maybe changing headline to

" Hospital in Bangkok charges 2 million baht."

might be a prudent and more accurate title.

[Felt 35]

Dr Tawatchai Vanichkorn, direcฌtor of Kasemrad Prachachuen Hospital, told The Nation that the normal rate of influenza treatment for an inpatient at a private hospital was Bt20,000 a day

What a load of %¤#”#¤% . Unless the man already had a lung infection when he was admitted to the first hospital it should be some of the simplest work a doctor have to do. Had they sent him home with a box of Tamiflu and told him to stay home until he felt better he probably had been cured and with good health by now.

3million Baht. The man could have had three bypass surgeries +

[TAWP]

Also MOD's if this was NOT at Bangkok Hospital itself,

which IS a real hospitals name...

Then maybe changing headline to

" Hospital in Bangkok charges 2 million baht."

might be a prudent and more accurate title.

Fair enough - re-checked the OP and no hospital [claimed to have done something wrong] is named.

[mike_rad]

Treatment is always more profitable than cure. Privatised health systems and pharmacutical companies spend a lot of money lobbying your representative in Washington or London to make sure it stays this way.

Yes, institutionalized medicine is all about reaping benefit from sickness costs and virtually nothing about true health.

[ballbreaker]

TYPE A (H1N1)

Bangkok hospital charges a patient Bt3 million

Dr Auechart Kanchanapitak, president of the Private Hospitals Association, did not give any details as to how the association controlled the price of medical treatment for patient with this year's admitted to private hospitals.

-- The Nation 2009-08-15

When you see statements like this it brings to mind price fixing and if Thailand doesn't have laws on the books preventing industry associations from doing such things perhaps they should consider enacting.

Edited August 15, 2009 by ballbreaker

[G54]

Methinks some of these hospitals need to start charging on a no result no fee basis. Maybe then some of their patients might survive!

I could not agree more after recently taking the girlfriend to 2 hospitals and 1 Doctors surgery. She was examined by 4 doctors, had 4 internal (vaginal) examinations done before she was whisked off to hospital yesterday and kept in.

She has had enough drugs dished out to keep a pharmacist in profit for a month. Had ultrasound too.

And the end result? None of the first 3 doctors, including a gynaecologist, diagnosed her problem correctly and that is why she ended up in hospital yesterday and kept in. !!!

Will the 4th doctor be correct? I hope so as it is draining my finances.

[astral]

Also MOD's if this was NOT at Bangkok Hospital itself,

which IS a real hospitals name...

Then maybe changing headline to

" Hospital in Bangkok charges 2 million baht."

might be a prudent and more accurate title.

Title changed.

[astral]

Are sure these figures are correct.

My entire treatment for cancer, spread over 7 weeks in London only cost B2.5 million

and London prices are a great deal higher than Bangkok.

[teatree]

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality."

— Michael Ellner

[noahvail]

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality."

— Michael Ellner

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

-- 1984, George Orwell

[animatic]

Also MOD's if this was NOT at Bangkok Hospital itself,

which IS a real hospitals name...

Then maybe changing headline to

" Hospital in Bangkok charges 2 million baht."

might be a prudent and more accurate title.

Title changed.

Astral I noticed that. Seems safer for TVF too.

Fair play.

[animatic]

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality."

— Michael Ellner

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

-- 1984, George Orwell

Free lunch, Lady boy, Necessary evil, Fix it in the mix

[givenall]

Sorry to say that the hospital in Thailand are corporations and want to make as much as they can. Forget about The Hippocratic Oath for the doctors either and it does not mean anything over here. This is not to say you cant find good doctor. My advice is to always shop around and ask others about the doctor you want to see

[geriatrickid]

Beore passing judgement, it might be prudent to consider what the condition of the patient was to begin with. Was this patient already suffering from pre existing medical conditions? What were the exact instructions given to the hospital? Were people constantly coming in and demanding transfers or specific treatments be given? With multiple hospitals involved there are flat startup fees applied at each facility, why is anyone shocked at the cost? There are worse horror stories involving tourists in car crashes. The cost to care and then medevac someone can easily exceed 5million baht for just a week's activity.

The fact that some western countries national health plans pay for some of the cost so the procedure seems free is a misconception. There is a cost and if a patient is in ICU for several days, the cost to the state, i.e. the taxpayers can run into tens of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds. This was a bargain in comparison to the west. What do you think the cost is for ICU care in the west is? 3million baht is what? $1000,000 Aus/$95,000CAd/$90,000USD/48,000 UKpounds? That's nothing. This is why the health care systems in the west are so tattered. The costs are not seen or understood by the general public.

Maybe the patient and his family was ripped off, but 2million baht is still a fraction of the actual cost of an ICU course of stay in the west.

Ok, so you say, but this is Thailand, it should be cheaper. Why should it be cheaper? The equipment and supplies are sourced from the same manufacturers and suppliers as the west. E.g. Scalpel blades from India, hitech equipment from Germany, and the USA, cotton bandages from China, etc. Everyone pays the same list price except those that get the bulk discounts or that use lower end suppliers. The only key cost variable is that of labour and overhead. (Don't even bother with malpractice issues, because with the exception of the USA, malpractice costs are neglible component of healthcare costs in in the west.)

Medical procedures are not always the bargain it seems in Thailand. Yes, some things are cheaper, but if you look hard enough, you will see why they are. Things like not following more expensive sterilization procedures, sourcing component parts of implants and prosthetics from Indian or Chinese suppliers and not the better quality European or American manufacturers. Hospitals that have higher standards more in line with western standards will have similiar costs and pass on those costs to the consumer.

Sorry to say that the hospital in Thailand are corporations and want to make as much as they can. Forget about The Hippocratic Oath for the doctors either and it does not mean anything over here. This is not to say you cant find good doctor. My advice is to always shop around and ask others about the doctor you want to see

FYI: Physicians do not take the Hippocratic oath in the west. Something about swearing to Greek and Roman gods that doesn't sit well with alot of people. Why would Buddhists be expected to make a promise to these pagan gods? Please read the oath.

Edited August 15, 2009 by geriatrickid

[EndofDays]

Treatment is always more profitable than cure. Privatised health systems and pharmacutical companies spend a lot of money lobbying your representative in Washington or London to make sure it stays this way.

and you can prove this how?

[ukrules]

This sounds like a blatant rip off to me

[BSJ]

On the surface the costs seem over the top.

As for the outcome, maybe sticking with the one hospital may have been prudent.

[Felt 35]

Beore passing judgement, it might be prudent to consider what the condition of the patient was to begin with. Was this patient already suffering from pre existing medical conditions?why is anyone shocked at the cost?

The report state it was for treatment of a patient with typeA (H1N1) influenza who later died, apparently due to delayed treatment. WHO recommend homestay and Tamiflu. Box with tamiflu cost approximately THB 1000,- in Europe!

The fact that some western countries national health plans pay for some of the cost so the procedure seems free is a misconception

. I believe most of the citizens in this countries happily pay taxes for good healtcare.

Ok, so you say, but this is Thailand, it should be cheaper. Why should it be cheaper?

Labour costs and local made medicin is very low.

Thai nurse at a private hospital in Thailand earn approximately 10-30k month. A nurse in Europe earn 140-175K monthly.

The equipment and supplies are sourced from the same manufacturers and suppliers as the west. E.g. Scalpel blades from India,

hitech equipment from Germany, and the USA, cotton bandages from China, etc

Everyone pays the same list price except those that get the bulk discounts or that use lower end suppliers. The only key cost variable is that of labour and overhead.

One more obvious reason to that private hospitals in Thailand are overpriced. BTW, I just had and MRI here (knee). Had to lay down in a forhistoric equipment for more than and hour. That’s not hi-tech. Price 12K.

Price in Europe 9k and it takes ten minute and only the area affected (knee) in the equipment

(

Medical procedures are not always the bargain it seems in Thailand. Yes, some things are cheaper, but if you look hard enough, you will see why they are. Things like not following more expensive sterilization procedures, sourcing component parts of implants and prosthetics from Indian or Chinese suppliers and not the better quality European or American manufacturers. Hospitals that have higher standards more in line with western standards will have similiar costs and pass on those costs to the consumer

.

Sure its not a bargain because the hospitals take out a very high profit. Generally they have much lower operational costs, included nearly free labour. Unfortunately they take out a greedy profit which end up at the bill to the consumer.

[Briggsy]

Methinks some of these hospitals need to start charging on a no result no fee basis. Maybe then some of their patients might survive!

At the beginning of the 20th century, this indeed was the very system employed by Thai doctors.

If they saw someone was likely to die or had an untreatable condition, they would flee and refuse to treat the patient.

[Nerone]

Beore passing judgement, it might be prudent to consider what the condition of the patient was to begin with. Was this patient already suffering from pre existing medical conditions? What were the exact instructions given to the hospital? Were people constantly coming in and demanding transfers or specific treatments be given? With multiple hospitals involved there are flat startup fees applied at each facility, why is anyone shocked at the cost? There are worse horror stories involving tourists in car crashes. The cost to care and then medevac someone can easily exceed 5million baht for just a week's activity.

The fact that some western countries national health plans pay for some of the cost so the procedure seems free is a misconception. There is a cost and if a patient is in ICU for several days, the cost to the state, i.e. the taxpayers can run into tens of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds. This was a bargain in comparison to the west. What do you think the cost is for ICU care in the west is? 3million baht is what? $1000,000 Aus/$95,000CAd/$90,000USD/48,000 UKpounds? That's nothing. This is why the health care systems in the west are so tattered. The costs are not seen or understood by the general public.

Maybe the patient and his family was ripped off, but 2million baht is still a fraction of the actual cost of an ICU course of stay in the west.

Ok, so you say, but this is Thailand, it should be cheaper. Why should it be cheaper? The equipment and supplies are sourced from the same manufacturers and suppliers as the west. E.g. Scalpel blades from India, hitech equipment from Germany, and the USA, cotton bandages from China, etc. Everyone pays the same list price except those that get the bulk discounts or that use lower end suppliers. The only key cost variable is that of labour and overhead. (Don't even bother with malpractice issues, because with the exception of the USA, malpractice costs are neglible component of healthcare costs in in the west.)

Medical procedures are not always the bargain it seems in Thailand. Yes, some things are cheaper, but if you look hard enough, you will see why they are. Things like not following more expensive sterilization procedures, sourcing component parts of implants and prosthetics from Indian or Chinese suppliers and not the better quality European or American manufacturers. Hospitals that have higher standards more in line with western standards will have similiar costs and pass on those costs to the consumer.

Sorry to say that the hospital in Thailand are corporations and want to make as much as they can. Forget about The Hippocratic Oath for the doctors either and it does not mean anything over here. This is not to say you cant find good doctor. My advice is to always shop around and ask others about the doctor you want to see

FYI: Physicians do not take the Hippocratic oath in the west. Something about swearing to Greek and Roman gods that doesn't sit well with alot of people. Why would Buddhists be expected to make a promise to these pagan gods? Please read the oath.

Between the lines of "hippocratic Oath" I read ethic, morality.... Words that in Thailand still don't exist....

[Bagwan]

Cost of 30 day supply of GPO VIR to hospital 1,200 baht. Selling price at one Pattaya hospital 3 years ago 2,800 baht.

Cost for a 30 day supply of three anti virals at a BKK hospital 5,200 baht. Same medication sourced from elsewhere 6,600 for 90 day supply.

Go figure medical ethics - or at least those of the hospital administrators.

BTW I have come across two doctors in LoS who ask about ability to pay and show concern about financial considerations. I do not think the fact that they are both ladies is coincidential.