bina Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 sorry bannork, i saw the cattle grazing also; but someone in the thread had said that people burn the fields instead? or in addition to grazing? also, i dont remember when watching the bufalo grazing if they pull up or snip off (sheep snip/pull close to the ground, goats browse and cut, but nver saw a cow graze in israel they're all in doors... maybe the cattle/buffalo method doesnt clean the fields well?? donkeys rip at the grass but also take the junk/weedy woody stuff no problem so we use them as weed control on the edges of the animal park instead of spraying the moog, if i plant a garden near my house, thats work?? (i know this stuff was discussed in work/visa thread but just in general, if ever i were to live in thailand, farming is definately me... i couldnt live w/o it: chickens goats, trees whatever.... well, maybe i'll check out the hardwood tree planting site; planted enough olive trees and desert oak etc in my name and kids names every year, can give some to an other country. QUESTION: anybody have specifics as to areas hit by drought not by province but by mubaan or tambon (or smallest area); etc... and what crops, etc??? how are people handling it daily?? etc.sorry cant read thai well enought to search the news and i dont see any mention really on the bits of thai news i watch at the guys living area... they prefer the karoake to the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Boy Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Bina this link from the BBC may of be interest although it doesn't answer your question. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4345551.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4345551.stm got to it eventually.... thanx but still not really detailed, just general world news stuff the english thai papers dont write about this stuff, or is it not talked about in thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schauerte Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 WAKE UP CALL!I too am available if there is any interest too. PM me and lets save Thailand before there is no Thailand left to save! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are just the most wonderful intelligent person I have ever read, please, please save us all before its too late!! Only you are intelligent enough to do it. And you wonder why the Thai's turn up their noses at your arrogance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately there are too many of these types out here in Thailand. They should go back to their homecountry . Thailand requires help regarding the agricultural system, but they don't need lectures by arrogant farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbunny Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I see that 139 people are currently reading this topic so quite a few people are interested. If they have any knowledge on the subject is another thing. I for instance know about farming what I was taught in highschool and college. Nothing more. Bu t I do know the value of water conservation... how many of you know to takew water out from well when eletricity and equipments are not present as in west? Same way we did on the farm in Ok., with a rope and a bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 sorry bannork, i saw the cattle grazing also; but someone in the thread had said that people burn the fields instead? or in addition to grazing? also, i dont remember when watching the bufalo grazing if they pull up or snip off (sheep snip/pull close to the ground, goats browse and cut, but nver saw a cow graze in israel they're all in doors... maybe the cattle/buffalo method doesnt clean the fields well?? donkeys rip at the grass but also take the junk/weedy woody stuff no problem so we use them as weed control on the edges of the animal park instead of sprayingthe moog, if i plant a garden near my house, thats work?? (i know this stuff was discussed in work/visa thread but just in general, if ever i were to live in thailand, farming is definately me... i couldnt live w/o it: chickens goats, trees whatever.... well, maybe i'll check out the hardwood tree planting site; planted enough olive trees and desert oak etc in my name and kids names every year, can give some to an other country. QUESTION: anybody have specifics as to areas hit by drought not by province but by mubaan or tambon (or smallest area); etc... and what crops, etc??? how are people handling it daily?? etc.sorry cant read thai well enought to search the news and i dont see any mention really on the bits of thai news i watch at the guys living area... they prefer the karoake to the news. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> they snip, no pulling up, at least the cows; and I think the buffaloes are the same, they're too sensible to bite the hand that feeds them. bannork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 (edited) bannork how many of you know to takew water out from well when eletricity and equipments are not present as in west?angry.gif * Same way we did on the farm in Ok., with a rope and a bucket. wink.gif follow the goatshit to the nearest spring, can be found by looking for low shrubs weeds, pomegranite, lemon, almond trees etc... open cover w.key , climb down broken metal ladder, lower jerry cans, fill up, give to other person standing by, put on tender (pick up truck) , close cover and lock, wash hands in the outside above ground part of the spring fed pool, eat pomegranites, drive home. not all of us westerners are helpless when faced w/lack of technology. it happens to me everyday. Edited March 14, 2005 by bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 http://lists.tree-care.info/uktc/archive/2003/msg01092.php More info on location, sorry didnt give specifics, and sorry I didnt look up the exact location before I mentioned it here But It does exist and it is in the middle of a desert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 http://www.unep-wcmc.org/forest/restoratio...cs/Thailand.pdf The above link takes you to a reforesting programme in Thailand. The striking thing about this report is the dependence on seed distribuing animals and birds, for the success of this project. The whole point of the Pocket full of acorns project is that we can all give these important animals and birds a hand in distributing the tree seed. Germination: We have used a simple plastic carrier bag with some dampened soil and many tree seeds have germinated as a result of this method. Also, we have found that transplanting seedlings and saplings from the shade of their parent trees to other unshaded areas, accelerates the spread of these trees to great effect. Enlisting the help of local schools to grow seedlings in pots, polythene bags, or cut off plastic bottles and then replanting them in the baron areas, not only enlightens the children to the plight of the impending droughts. It enables them to learn about the importance of preserving their native tree species and the foest inhabitants, while benefiting from the exercise and out door activities. Outings could also be organised to take the children out to where the deserts are growing and people are having to deal with the inherant lack of water. Raising awareness of the impact from the tsunami has been worldwide. But not once have I heard about the need to address the destruction of the coastal trees. Ayakiawe, thank you for the story, It just goes to show how a ripple of environmentalists can turn into a giant wave of new forests. Would it be possible for you all to have a go at converting the pocket full of acorns project into a format acceptible and relevant to Thailand? It would need to include native tree species and seeds. Then we can see about getting it translated and distributed to the schools and local media. Respectfully yours Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Thanks for the details Andrew. Kenya's not exactly in the middle of the Sahara, but I get your drift. Back in Roman times much of North Africa was reputedly a grain basket for the Empire and like other Mediterranean lands was far more green and fertile than it was today. However, whether the spread of desert was primairly due to deforestation or to long term natural changes in climate is a debatable point, which will never probably be answered with any certainty. What is certain now is that forest in tropical countries, including Thailand, is disappearing at an alarming rate, while what efforts there are at reafforestation, are primarily focused on fast-growing, mono-crop, industrial tree plantations, rather than multi-species, mixed native species forestry. A decade ago, everyone in Isaan was planting eucalyptus and Acacia spp., nowadays it is rubber plantations that are spreading at a rate of knots, and the eucalyptus is still spreading, but chielfy under its own steam by self seeding. In my opinion these plantations do more harm than good, in terms of biodiversity and water conservation, and should NOT be considered as "reforrestation". In many cases in the upper Northeast, I see biodiverse natural recovering forest being bulldozed down to make way for rubber plantations. A hundred plus species of vegetation with multiple uses and benefits are sacrificed for one exotic species to make condoms and tyres. That's a good trade off, huh? The point of this is that quality of forest is far more important than quantity of wood, multi-species natural forest left to recover is far better than man-made forests and exotic species are often big trouble and should be planted with extreme caution. Before everyone jumps in and points out that most fruit trees are exotics, then I would not disagree, but I am specifically trying to refer to creating "natural" forests here and not orchards, which maybe no better in ameliorating drought than a field full of corn, and am trying to conjure up a long-term vision of how to turn around the crisis of annual droughts and human-induced flooding in Thailand (as distinct from natural floods of lowland river since time immemorial which we should learn to live with). Your ideas are positive and helpful Andrew. I think there are several initiatives in Thailand already which have the same or similar approach to a "pocketfull of Acorns". I don't have them to hand at the moment, but will try and look up some useful addresses or links for you to browse at some point. Try googling "recoftc, bangkok" for a starting place. It's a training centre for forestry based in Kasetsary Uni, and does some great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 like i said, the israelis made that same stupid mistake; the the israeli forestry people planted tons and tons of jerusalem pine and eucyllyptus.... nothing else can grow.... now the policy is a variegated planting of several native species, etc.... but just tree planting is not effective... proper water management conservation and farming techniques are better short term plans for the near future plachon waiting for links.... thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 The question of trees increasing ground water rather than depleting groundwater on the face of it leans towards the trees using up precious underground reserves. However, this is clearly not the case in tropical rain forests. Once the trees have been removed the rains fail and the land turns to desert. In India, the Chipco movement began when ancient streams and rivers failed to flow. The local women realised it was because of logging and strapped themselves to trees in order to prevent them from beeing felled. Some of the women were dragged down the roads by trucks, many of them injured. But they did not budge from their determined actions. Finally the trucks were halted and the women set about replanting the areas that had been clear-felled. Now the rivers and streams flow again, proving that trees attract moisture and cause rain to fall. Many islands have protected forests which have been known to generate adequate rainfall for the often baron populated tourist areas. Tenerife being one example NASA has ample satelight pictures of forested islands with clouds covering them in a clear blue sky! But the icing on the cake should come from fog harvesting, using nylon mesh nets to milk the air of precious water, immitating the natural action of forested lands. http://www.fogquest.org/Projects/chile/past_project.shtml http://www.oas.org/usde/publications/Unit/oea59e/ch12.htm In a nutshell, no trees=no rain Plachon, thanks for your reply, you are quite correct about the use of monoculture crops, particulary the highly inflamable eucalyptus and pines, which have been shown to cause the rapid spread of wildfires. A more varied native tree cover is required in order to enhance the beauty of Thailands amazing land. This is why people travel to Thailand! Not to see monoculture cash crops. They can see these errors in their own countries. Furthermore, many medicines to todays most serious medical conditions lay undiscovered in these plants and trees. If we continue to destroy our natural forests we are indeed destroying ourselves. But now is the time to give nature a hand, while we still have native trees to harvest seed from. The need to mobilise the children, teachers and parents into action is already upon us now, but not just in Thailand. The same pattern of neglect and destruction is apparent in almost every country in the world. I say almost. http://www.uaeinteract.com/news/default.as...y=10&ID=18#5065 However, they still have yet to realise the importance of using waste water over desalinated or clean well water. Putting back the organic material in desert sand is of paramount importance. Planting inland and neglecting the coastal areas makes it a continuous uphill struggle. Keeping goats damages trees and places additional problems on natural regeneration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Keeping goats damages trees and places additional problems on natural regeneration. NOT TRUE goats are browsers and foragers not grazers; if properly managed, they de weed, as they prefer a lot of the 'bad' stuff that most animals dont eat including all kinds of invasive and non native thistles and other plants except jimson weed and oleander, which is poisonous. also goats wont eat desert oaks which are bitter and mildly poisonous; if moved from area to area they dont destroy bark and leaves of trees but eat brush etc leaving room for young trees to flourish... they also keep areas clear against forest fires etc... they are better than herbicides, they dont eat down to the ground as no respectable goat will eat where an other has eaten or relieved herself, they are economical in needing drinking water, most goats can drink morning and evening and still be good milkers etc; of course in more delicate areas with less forage and too many goats there is a problem. if left in one area, of course nothing is left ... most people here now work with the forestry organization and pasture office (not sure what its called in english). etc, for pastureing and herd movement (a friend lost his herd when the forestry people sprayed pasture and didnt notify the users of the natural pasture... 200 head dead); unlike cows, they trample less, as their feet are smaller and they are lighter in weight also, they also dont tend to stick together like sheep, but spread out (which makes it difficult to use them in orchard weed control cause they do prefer trees to grass and weeds, as i tried with our organic apple orchards and the cooperation of the orchard staff) so now we cut the weeds and bring the pasture to the goats.... we lost lots of trees in the jerusalem corridor because of those stupid pine trees huge areas and we watched them burn (our kibbutz has fire equipt. so were involved in both big forest fires) just a harangue from a goat keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Free online Translator http://www.suparsit.com/faqs.php Have used it to translate the Pocket full of acorns project (unmodified) Is there anyone who is able to edit and include native tree species etc? คนนำสาร ใน1995ในขณะเดียวกันขับรถที่บ้านที่ทางด่วนที่มีการแบ่งตรงกลางในTorquayเดวอนเชอร์ฉันเข้าใจดูเหมือนอะไรคือนกที่ถูกบาดเจ็บรถ3คันในข้างหน้า. รถก่อนฉันวิ่งอ้าวข้างต้นนกแต่ไม่ตีมัน. แวะและเลือกข้างบนหัวขวานตัวผู้สวยงามมีสีเขียวและสีแดงฉันใส่เขาบนที่นั่งผู้โดยสารมองข้ามแตรกำลังบีบแตรรถของคนขับรถที่หุนหัน. บ้านสืบเนื่องที่กำลังหวังSFฉันน่าจะทันช่วยผู้ชายที่โชคร้ายคนนี้ฉันตรวจสอบตาของเขาเวลาพวกเขาถอยหลังในหัวของเขาเวลาเขาให้ลมหายใจของเขาที่สุดท้าย. ฉันกำลังถือมือ1อันที่หน้าอกซึ่งไม่ไหวติงของเขาในความหวังที่ว่าเขายังมีเครื่องหมายหลายๆอันของชีวิต. สลดและถูกทำให้การโกรธฉันดำเนินการขับรถ. ทีหลังประมาณ4หรือ5นาทีฉันจับที่ตาของฉันชำเลืองของอะไรที่ดูเหมือนคือลมอ่อนๆจากหัวขวานที่ถูกบาดเจ็บในกระจกที่ถูกปรับเปลี่ยนโดยตรงในเวลานั้นที่การตะลึงของฉันเขาการเริ่มต้นเข้ามาและลากตัวเขาเองตนเองที่ข้างต้นและวางหัวของเขาบนตักของฉันจ้อง. มกราคมเพื่อนที่รู้เล็กน้อยเกี่ยวกับสัตว์ที่ถูกทำให้เป็นบาดแผลที่เขาถูกทำการพยาบาลที่หลังที่สุขภาพและเราผลสุดท้ายปล่อยที่ป่าไม้เล็กๆในหุบเขาWesterlandเขาใกล้Paigntonในเดวอนเชอร์. ฉันทำให้เงียบที่วันนี้การได้ยินหัวขวานในป่าไม้เล็กๆและออกนอกเรื่องมันคือการพักเพราะว่าแก้มที่เหมือนกันหัวของเขาเกี่ยวกับตักของฉัน. ข้อความชัดเจนมากthatวันและจะพักตลอดกาลฉันและคือเหตุผลของเครื่องบูชาข้างล่าง. กระเป๋าที่เต็มไปด้วยผลต้นโอ้ก เรื่องของคนเลี้ยงแกะที่สูงอายุและโอกาสทหารที่พบในฝรั่งเศสระหว่างสงครามถูกพูดเมื่อเร็วๆนี้และฉันน่าจะอยากให้โอกาสมีส่วนร่วมในมันกับคุณ. ทหารดูเวลาคนเลี้ยงแกะเข้าร่วมแกะของเขาและชอบถานโน่นนี่เกี่ยวกับนิสัยของเขาของทำตกบางอย่างดินและการไล่ตามมันที่โลกที่นิ่ม. เขาอยู่ในผลต้นโอ้กกำลังปลูกความจริงเพราะว่าเขาบริจาคฝูงของเขาและกำลังทำอย่างนั้นเป็นเวลานานหลายปี. อย่างทหารมองรอบๆเขารู้ตัวต้นไม้ทั้งหมดที่เขาควรเห็นมีในต้นโอ๊กความจริงจากต้นโอ๊กที่เข้มแข็งไปต้นอ่อน. เขาพบว่าคนเลี้ยงแกะที่สูงอายุมีความรับผิดชอบเกี่ยวกับการสร้างสรรค์ของป่าต้นโอ๊กที่รโหฐานอันนี้อย่างสมบูรณ์อย่างสิ้นเชิงผู้อาศัยit\'sทีหลัง. สิ่งจำเป็นต้องออกนอกเรื่องทำไมที่มนุษยชาติไม่เห็นสติปัญญาในการฟื้นฟูสู่ตำแหน่งเดิมที่เราสิ้นเปลืองต้นไม้that. สำหรับผู้ชายไม่มีเงินที่ยืมที่ลึกกว่าหรือเก่ากว่าthanสิ่งที่เขากำลังขอยืมต้นไม้เลย. บวกจัดกำลังความหายนะธรรมชาติการทอดทิ้งที่บ่อยๆโลกอย่างโรคแห้งเหี่ยวตายของต้นเอลม์หรือไฟไหม้เมื่อเร็วๆนี้ที่ออสเตรเลียสเปนพม่าอินโดนีเซียและสหรัฐอเมริกา. หรือน้ำท่วมที่ถูกไม่อยู่ของต้นไม้ขยายmudslidesและstorms-oftenเป็นสาเหตุให้เกิดภัยพิบัติใหญ่หลวงเมื่อพวกเขาทำให้ราบเรียบการหลงเหลือที่เหลืออยู่สุดท้ายของป่าไม้ที่ยิ่งใหญ่1ครั้งและป่า. พายุ1อันเช่นนั้นเยี่ยมUK one-dayใน1987และออกจากทางเดินของความเสียหายโดยสูญเสียข้างต้นต้นไม้19000000ต้น. มันน่าจะธรรมดาเรียนตัวอย่างที่น่าอัศจรรย์ของคนเลี้ยงแกะฝรั่งเศสและการถือป่าในกระเป๋าของเราอย่างไร. เราก็ยังทั้งหมดของผลต้นโอ้กหรือเชอรี่เกาลัดฮอร์สเชสนัทเมเปิ้ลพืชจำพวกมีผลเปลือกรูปสามเหลี่ยมที่กินได้ต้นเฮเซลแอปเปิ้ลหรือเมล็ดต้นไม้บ้านเกิดเมืองนอนใดๆชนิดอื่นควรหมุนกระแสน้ำทะเลของความเสียหายอันนี้. วางสถานที่ที่เหมาะการอนุมัติกำลังได้สร้างป่าไม้เวลาใช้เวลาง่ายยังในบริเวณข้างบนที่ถูกสร้างมากแต่คุณจะคงจะสำเร็จถ้าคุณติดทน. ใช้สื่อเพื่อแนะนำให้เจ้าของที่ดินเข้าร่วมคุณและการเชิญผู้คนเพื่อทำให้เกิดและปลูกเมล็ดของพวกเขาและต้นอ่อน. การออกแบบและแสดง\เครื่องหมาย'กระเป๋าที่เต็มไปด้วยAcorns\'ที่ทางเข้าไปสถานที่ของคุณที่บอกบริเวณที่เจาะจงนี้การจำเป็นต้องถูกเปลี่ยนรูปป่าไม้หรือป่า. ทุกครั้งเราเยี่ยมดินแดนรกร้างอังกฤษเพื่อเปิดเผยเราเรียก\ของเรา'วนอุทยานหรือไม่?''\'ในถิ่นกันดารที่กันดารแร้นแค้นควรจำได้เหล่านี้เคยการคือป่าที่ยิ่งใหญ่ครั้งหนึ่งดาดาษชีวิต. หมูป่าทั้งหมดกล่าวถึงจำนวนน้อยเดินเตร่และป่าที่ยิ่งใหญ่เคยคืออะไรครั้งหนึ่งหมีกวางและหมาป่า. บรรพบุรุษของเราที่หลักจารึกวางในการหลงเหลือก้อนหินไม่สนใจการกระทำของพวกเขาที่ไฟใช้ถูกทิ้งขยะทั่วประเทศเหล่านี้เพื่อขับสัตว์ออกจากต้นไม้เพื่อพวกเขาสามารถถูกหยุดในการปลอบใจหรืออนาคตของดาวเคราะห์ของเรา. หญ้าถูกปลูกเพื่อให้สัตว์ที่ถูกทำปศุสัตว์อาหารและทำขนมปังและสะกดคำโชคชะตาเพื่อต้นไม้ทั้งหมดจนกระทั่งผู้ชายที่ถูกทำให้ยากจนให้บังคับละทิ้งมันเพราะว่าประเทศกลายเป็น. วันนี้ที่อะไหล่ของโลกอย่างอินโดนีเซียที่กำหนดจารีตประเพณีที่แปลกอันนี้กำลังยังถูกดำเนินการ. อย่างไรก็ตามฉันกี่ของเราเข้าใจออกนอกเรื่องเพราะว่าพวกเขากำลังยังถูกเผาในแนวทางที่เหมือนกันและดินแดนรกร้างยังคือดินแดนรกร้าง. อาจจะทั่วเหตุผลที่เหมือนกันไม่เพียงแต่ผลทำให้รกร้างที่เหมือนกัน! ชาวนาในUKเผาฟางถูกห้ามตอนนี้เพราะว่ามีผลนั้นที่สิ่งแวดล้อมของเรา. ไม่ช้าไม่นานเผาไหม้ทั้งหมดหยุดอย่างแน่นอน. ฉันเยี่ยมตั๋วเดือนงูในเขตจุดสูงสุดเมื่อเร็วๆนี้เท่านั้นเพื่อพบต้นไม้ตายและตายและบริเวณที่กว้างใหญ่ของการสึกกร่อนของดิน. ชาวออสเตรเลียบ้านเกิดเมืองนอนอย่างชาวอียิปต์โบราณดำเนินเผาประเทศของพวกเขาและการสำเร็จในทำให้น้อยลงทั้งหมดส่วนใหญ่ของประเทศของพวกเขาเพื่อจากไป. เวลาที่เราเข้าใจเพราะว่าธรรมดาการจดกระเป๋าที่เต็มมันน่าจะมีเมล็ดจากต้นไม้กับเราอย่างไรพอดีบนเวลาวันของเราที่ข้างนอกและซ่นพวกเขาไปโลกที่นิ่มพอดีอย่างคนเลี้ยงแกะที่สูงอายุที่ฝรั่งเศส. ฉันออกนอกเรื่องและมันน่าจะได้รับนานแค่ไหนเพื่อปลูกป่าเนินเขาที่กันดารแร้นแค้นใหม่แทนที่กระทืบโลกที่เปราะบางด้วยรองเท้าบูทเดินนักออกแบบของเราการช่วยเหลือ can\'t. คริสต์มาสมาและห่านกำลังพร้อม ทันทีเราจะกำลังคงจะคิดเกี่ยวกับคริสต์มาส. ต้นคริสต์มาสเติบโตแล้วและจะพร้อมสำหรับเก็บเกี่ยวเพื่อตกแต่งโดยการตกแต่งและจดศักดิ์ศรีของสถานที่ในบ้านของเราในขณะเดียวกันหลายสัปดาห์. เวลาที่เลี้ยงดูปูเสื่ออยู่ข้างต้นพวกเขาจะถูกทิ้งในซอยประเทศหรือจะถูกโยนขึ้นที่ด้านข้างอย่างลูกสุนัขที่ unwanted. ทำไมdon’tเราชอบต้นไม้เหล่านี้ที่บริจาคเวลานานเช่นนั้นสำหรับ? ถูกจัดซื้อโดยรากของพวกเขาที่ยังอยู่สภาพเดิมถูกวางในหม้อและถูกรักษาความชุ่มชื้นของดินอากาศในขณะเดียวกันคริสต์มาสที่พวกเขาควรถูกปลูกใหม่อย่างง่าย---ดังนั้นในเวลาศักดิ์ศรีรู้ว่าพวกเขาจะที่เหลืออยู่เวลานานภายหลังเราคุณภาพต่ำลงและเราเยี่ยมคริสต์มาสของเราที่การผ่าน. MEDIA THEควรเข้าใจนี่มีภายในบีบของพวกเขาทีเดียวเพื่อทำให้นี่เกิดขึ้นตอนนี้. ทั้งหมดที่มันน่าจะใช้เวลาคือคำประกาศที่เล็กและใครรู้ว่ามันจะนำเราที่ไหน? ความรุนแรงสามารถถูกผูกติดว่ามองของความรุนแรงที่ t.vถูกรู้จักในบางเวลา. ไม่มีก็อะไรก็ตามเพื่อพูดที่กลับกันจะไม่เกิดขึ้นเวลาความหวังมองที่จอของเรา. กดนอกจากนี้ควรตระหนักพิมพ์ฉบับในอนาคตรับประกันกำลังต้องถูกติดแน่นในสถานที่ตอนนี้เพื่อรับรองของที่จัดหาให้ไม้การจำเป็นต้องใช้การได้ที่ศตวรรษถัดไป. มอบหมายโดยทวีปยุโรปที่แทนป่าหลงลืมit\'sน่าจะไปเพื่อเห็นโดยตัวอย่างความไร้ผลในความเสียหายที่คงที่ของสิ่งแวดล้อมของเราระยะทางไกล. หรืออาจจะโดยการแทนป่าของเราเองเราน่าจะทำให้น้อยลงความต้องการที่ถูกจัดเก็บภาษีบนป่าฝนเขตร้อนที่เหลืออยู่สุดท้ายในโลกทำให้เจริญ. กรุณาพบมันในหัวใจของคุณเพื่อให้ทดสอบแก่มันปีนี้. วิสัยทัศน์ ฉันสามารถเห็นโครงการโรงเรียนงอกที่ก็ทุกที่รอบๆโลกและเพาะปลูกต้นอ่อนและการจัดตั้งที่ theการท่องเที่ยวโรงเรียนสร้างอาณาเขตป่าใหม่! ในอังกฤษเราควรเยี่ยมใหม่ดาร์ทมัวร์สร้างอาณาเขตป่า. เพราะว่าน่าจะคือบางอย่างเพื่อภูมิใจมัน. รอยทางของเมล็ดต้นไม้แทนที่ paper-chase(การแข่งขันที่กระดาษถูกทิ้งอื่นๆกำลังต่อไปในรอยทาง)เราควรเดินทางไปและแทนที่ถือขึ้นกระดาษเราควรเหยียบที่ดินเมล็ดและออกจากทางเดินของต้นไม้หลังเรา. จำได้แต่ทุกคนไม่สนใจในสิ่งแวดล้อมของเรา?Bดังนั้นแน่นอนเพิ่มขึ้นการอนุมัติก่อนปลูกต้นไม้ในบริเวณที่อ่อนไหว. มนุษยชาติ(อันไหนถูกเสียซึ่งเกิดตามมา)มีความกลัว in-builtของป่าและความมืดนั้น. อาจจะมันสำหรับเหตุผลนี้ที่ว่าเรากำลังไม่สมัครใจการอนุญาตการมีชีวิตใหม่ธรรมชาตินั้นหรือไม่? หรืออาจจะเรายังจับmiss-conceptionและกำไรที่ยิ่งใหญ่กว่าถูกบรรลุโดยการส่งออกเนื้อม้าสด. หรืออาจจะการไล่ตามกวางตัวผู้ใน4ที่บวกเพิ่มและปืนยาวที่มีกำลังแรงพวกเขาซ่อนที่ในง่ายกว่าปราศจากใบไม้หรือไม่? ประมาณ50ปีที่สุดท้ายไม่ทิ้งก็อะไรก็ตามนอกจากการทอดทิ้งเพื่อสิ่งแวดล้อมของเราไว้. มันไม่จำเป็นต้องคือแนวทางนี้. ทั้งหมดที่มันจะใช้เวลาคือจำนวนน้อยอธิบายว่าเมล็ดสองสามอันจะทำโลกของเราเป็นสถานที่ที่ดีกว่าเพื่อเด็กๆของเราทั้งหมด. มันนอกไปจากนี้ทำแม้แต่น่าจะใช้บนเราจากการลงเขาในฐานะสปีชีส์ของเวลาทั้งหมดที่ซึ่งเป็นการทำลายที่สุดในประวัติศาสตร์. ฉันสามารถทำอะไรเพื่อช่วย? เหนือสิ่งอื่นใดครั้งต่อมาที่คุณเห็นต้นไม้บ้านเกิดเมืองนอนที่เต็มไปด้วยจับเมล็ดกำมือและช่วยธรรมชาติแม่ช่วย. พระเจ้ารู้ว่าเธอต้องการมันมากกว่าก่อนตลอดไปตอนนี้?A(พยายามไม่ปลูกเมล็ดที่ถูกเสียหาย). คุณแก้ไขได้ไหมและใช้สอยข้อความอันนี้เพื่อสนับสนุนการปลูกต้นไม้. ถ้าคุณคือจากส่วนของโลกอันอีกแปลข้อความอันนี้สอดคล้องกันสปีชีส์ของต้นไม้บ้านเกิดเมืองนอนของคุณและแก้ไขและทำเลียนแบบ. หรือพิมพ์มันแบบง่ายๆและอัดรูปมัน. แจกจ่ายมันโดยการรวมทั้งมันในเว็บเพจของคุณหรือส่งอีเมลถึงคุณที่ทุกคนมันเขียนเพื่อทำ. ขอร้องโรงเรียนของคุณวางประเทศบางและจัดตั้งการเตรียมป่าไม้. ถามกดท้องถิ่นของคุณโทรทัศน์และวิทยุพวกเขาน่าจะช่วยการวางประเทศและขยายคำ. ถ้าคุณรู้มันหรือคือสมาชิกขององค์กรสิ่งแวดล้อมติดต่อพวกเขาและขอร้องพวกเขาเข้าร่วมเรา. กลุ่มแรกเช่นนั้นที่รวมคือการโต้คลื่นที่เก็บสะสมเงินในคอร์นวอลล์. ทั้งหมดกระเป๋าA"ของผลต้นโอ้กถูกจำกัดเท่านั้นโดยจินตนาการของคุณและจะไม่ทำให้ต้องสูญเสียเพนนียกเว้นแสตมป์สองสามดวงและการอัดรูปที่แปลกประหลาด. ถึงแม้ว่าคุณไม่อยากจดส่วนในโครงการนี้อย่างไรก็ตามนำกลับมาใช้ใหม่ใบย่อยอันนี้ให้มันแก่คนอื่นในเวลานั้นง่ายๆหรือปักเข็มหมุดมันที่แผงข่าวโรงเรียนหรือวางมันในหน้าต่างร้านค้า. การปาdon\'tที่ทางโน้นดาวเคราะห์ของเรามันตามตัวอักษรควรประเมินราคาเกี่ยวกับเราโลก! รับรองที่ระยะแรกโดยธนาคารต้นไม้เดวอนเชอร์การรวมตัวกันการสงวนรักษาโลกและคณะผู้แทนกิจการป่าไม้. แอนดรูว์ Fletcherไล่ลูกผลไม้เล็กๆของ26 Paigntonเดวอนเชอร์ TQ3 3QW.FromของการชลประทานOASISต้นคิด. 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roiet Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 like i said, the israelis made that same stupid mistake; the the israeli forestry people planted tons and tons of jerusalem pine and eucyllyptus.... nothing else can grow....now the policy is a variegated planting of several native species, etc.... but just tree planting is not effective... proper water management conservation and farming techniques are better short term plans for the near future plachon waiting for links.... thanx <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I find Andrews ideas very positive. I found a forestry research center in Yasothon, Isaan. They give free seedlings of various tree species to people interested in tree planting. According to them there are many such research centers all over Thailand with free supply of seedlings but no interest shown because no fun related to it. I can fully understand this because tree planting is work and no fun. Working should be fun. Some adaption to local customs needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 (edited) well, israelis have tree day in february which is our best time to plant trees; all the children do tree/garden oriented stuff and bring home seedlings with decorated planters etc. all week people pay money in the name of someone for birthday or thirteenth birthday (bar/bat mitzva)or rememberance day (if dead) to the forestry people (not very expensive) and the tree is planted and the family gets a certificate .... its like tam boon!!! its not really religious ceremony but has been developed in to one sort of... too lhard to explain history or, the family goes out and plants the tree, makes a little sign w/their name etc.... it involves picnics, hiking, festival activities w/ singers that also donate money time and trees, VIP's planting trees in new areas etc etc look up 'tu b'shvat' or 'hag l'ilanot' (tree dayin israel) in google its the jewish tree festival.... Edited March 21, 2005 by bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Bina Great idea to have a National Tree Planting day. Maybe even a National Tree Planting week might prove more productive What about "Royal Trees Week" Or "Thailands Trees Week" "National Tree Planting Week" "Plant a Tree For Free Week" "Trees 4 Free Week" "Heal The Earth Week" "Trees for Rain Week" "Thailands Tree Treaty" (favourite) "People of the Trees" "Tree People Week" "National Reforesting Week" "Tree Memorial week" "Tsunami Memorial Tree Week" "Thailands Tsunami Tree Week" Just a few ideas for a name. Maybe someone could write to the King or to his environment advisors, maybe we all could write, maybe we could ask the children in schools to write by contacting the local and National Media I have a good feeling about this approach Bina. In the UK We have a National Tree week, and the Media love it, showing children planting trees for the future. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 not my ideas just part of the society that i live in but one of the better aspects : check out these links, didnt want to post all info to avoid religious bla bla bla etc but very interesting and relevant reading for any one interested; actually i tried the two weeks i was in ban chiang exactly on tu b'shvat etc but u know it is very hard to move thai schools etc as i was an outsider and not my place etc, i just talked about it a bit... http://torah.org/learning/yomtov/tubshvat/tubshvat.html http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/T...&OVMTC=standard try these places as this is a good way to start.... whatever way it goes it has to fit the thai ideas in society: if economic aspects are the way than have to show it as economically beneficial, etc.....religious, merit making or whatever i;m not in thailand so cant do much by remote control unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Roiet Great news on seedlings supply for free. I actually believe that planting trees and watching them transform the environment for the better to be fun. I find the destruction of forests abhorrent! But seeing the faces of people who are planting for the future light up as they pop the saplings and seeds into the soil makes it all worth while. I see it as positive environmental graffiti Walking though a five-metre woodland full of birds, that some 5 years ago was a baron field with hardly any arable top soil, and covered in stones to be of immense satisfaction. Granted, people in Thailand might not relate to planting trees in the same way, but with a few lessons at school about the importance of preserving their natural heritage, who knows what the future might hold for us all. “A Pocket full of Acorns for Thailand will probably have very little in common with the UK version. In fact the version that went to Africa, bore little resemblance to the UK Version. Nevertheless it has been adopted and adapted by whoever can see the logic in having a rain forest instead of a desert. The emphasis in Africa for example was on reducing the distance people walked to find fuel for cooking and warmth, by planting seeds and saplings on their return journeys to find wood. The idea is that in a few years time they will be harvesting timber on their doorsteps and eating fruits and seeds from trees they have planted on their journey for water and fuel. In Thailand the main aim is to address the frequent problems of drought. Another hitherto overlooked bonus from tree planting is that they utilise a huge amount of salts from the soils, reducing salinity on irrigated sites, which is an increasing problem with any irrigation system in arid environments. The lost temples and cities in Cambodia bare witness to the folly of growing crops instead of managing the forests. In fact every past civilisation in the world has neglected its lands and ignored the needs of the soils. Planting grain instead of trees to fuel the massive labour forces required to build these majestic ruins, like the green temple, the pyramids and the ancient Greek and Roman ruins, leaves a message in the sands for all to see. And what do the scholars and archaeologists conclude? “They were cleaver” ???? If they were that cleaver they would still be living there today! But they had to walk away from the lands that they impoverished, as did the ancient Mesopotamians, the Mayan Indians, the inhabitants of Easter Island. Yet here we are in the year 2005 heading down exactly the same route to Armageddon as our ancient ancestors and the sad thing is. We have not learned a damned thing about the absolute stupidity of neglecting the land that feeds us. Sounds strangely like “Biting the hand that feeds us”, coincidence? Was it once written a Land that feeds us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Clever even* Even the brightest light will cast a shadow Doh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 like i said, the israelis made that same stupid mistake; the the israeli forestry people planted tons and tons of jerusalem pine and eucyllyptus.... nothing else can grow....now the policy is a variegated planting of several native species, etc.... but just tree planting is not effective... proper water management conservation and farming techniques are better short term plans for the near future plachon waiting for links.... thanx <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Bina, Couldn't find anything directly related to small community-based reafforestation projects in the sticks, but occasionally read about similar things in the Outlook section of the Bangkok Post. Mostly implemented by small Thai NGOs that don't necessarily have the skills or resources for a website or outside publicity, esp. not in English. Forest temples, esp. in Isaan, are other vital sites of biodiversity conservation and replanting. There is a National Tree Planting Day I think, but can't be sure if it coincides with world Environment Day (June 5th) or is totally seperate. For general info related to Thailand and the wider region, searches through links on the following sites may provide some interesting information if you have ample time: www.cifor.cgiar.org www.recoftc.org www.forestsandcommunities.org www.oxfammekong.org www.asiaforestnetwork.org/tha Anyone, seriously interested in forestry, water and natural resource-based issues in the Mekong region, could do worse than searching the back issues of Watershed, available from www.terraper.org, or looking up some hard-hitting reports on deforestation in the tropics and the facts behind the "pulp fiction" on World Rainforest Movements website - www.wrm.org.uy Great reply in goats' defence. Much maligned creatures goats, and if well-managed, as you say, can be an important part of smallholder livelihoods and sensible agro-ecological management. Like human over-population problems, bad environmental management by other sectors will cut the carrying capacity of any given piece of land, causing problems for goat herds and their keepers, who then end up copping the blame. Literally scapegoats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobaan Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hi all of you , Just read briefly throu the entire thread ,printed it and will take some tine to digest before answering. We currently finishing our new house on 3.5 Rai near Udon Thani. I installed a triple drainge /watercollection system -effluents from toilts to the septic, -all gray water to the fishpond, --all rainwater can be directed to the fishpont in the front or the pond in the rear or to the undergound emergeny water reservoir. All good and nice -waiting for the rains to cooperte. The front pond is approx 3m deep and it is still pretty much pure sand ,the rear pond is only 1-1,5 m deep and in loose sand that will not hold water unless flooded by a Tsunami. What are my options to keep the water I hopefully will be able to collect-concrete of course come to mind or plastic lining . Is there a better /cheaper more environmentally friendly way of achiving results. We are all with you when it comes to recycling ,planting trees and digging in manure -I do not mind working on the ,even if it is not fun for some ,for me it is a personal expression of applied stuartship of land I am allowed work during my lifetime . If I can not leave any other trace behind once I kick the bucket, I can leave my land behind in better shape as I found it. Who is it in the Udon area that also likes to dig in manure ,pls PM mw and lets dig together for a day ,while sharing a well deserved beer and some tall tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Hi Mobaan I would think that a liner, possibly the type used for buildings membrane, as used under concrete screed floor. Using a liner would be far less expensive than concrete, with some sandy soil used to cover up the membrane it would last for many years and would encourage silt to make a more permanent covering. Manure can also be added to the sandy bottom of your pond. This will cause a gelling effect and bind the sand grains together by adding the organic material, which is missing from the sandy soils. This may well suffice to make the pond watertight as it was used to great effect in Kuwait, where the sewage system flowed out onto the sandy desert causing a fantastic wildlife haven to naturally develop. This place holds an incredible amount of bird’s insects and mammals, and is visited by ornithologists from all over the world. Do you know of some common land that could be transformed into woodlands by children and adults from neighbouring schools? If so we would only need to contact the local media and invite people to bring trees and seeds to plant. The effects are truly amazing and would send a powerful message to others who believe that the downward spiralling environmental problems we all now face, are beyond their control. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Hi all of you ,Just read briefly throu the entire thread ,printed it and will take some tine to digest before answering. We currently finishing our new house on 3.5 Rai near Udon Thani. I installed a triple drainge /watercollection system -effluents from toilts to the septic, -all gray water to the fishpond, --all rainwater can be directed to the fishpont in the front or the pond in the rear or to the undergound emergeny water reservoir. All good and nice -waiting for the rains to cooperte. The front pond is approx 3m deep and it is still pretty much pure sand ,the rear pond is only 1-1,5 m deep and in loose sand that will not hold water unless flooded by a Tsunami. What are my options to keep the water I hopefully will be able to collect-concrete of course come to mind or plastic lining . Is there a better /cheaper more environmentally friendly way of achiving results. We are all with you when it comes to recycling ,planting trees and digging in manure -I do not mind working on the ,even if it is not fun for some ,for me it is a personal expression of applied stuartship of land I am allowed work during my lifetime . If I can not leave any other trace behind once I kick the bucket, I can leave my land behind in better shape as I found it. Who is it in the Udon area that also likes to dig in manure ,pls PM mw and lets dig together for a day ,while sharing a well deserved beer and some tall tales. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Moobaan, The best and cheapest way to get the water tightness you want is to get a lorry load of buffalo crap and pile of rice straw and get a herd of cows or buffaloes in there for a few days and trample the whole lot in. I'm sure you could get a local farmer to cooperate for the price of a bottle of lao kao or two! But as you seem to enjoy digging in manure, you could always do it yourself, but it's darn hot work for an April day and better to tend the trees and veggies while the buffalo do the hard work. Liners are expensive and prone to ripping or decay, which then cause an environmental impact themselves. I'm always concerned about the amount of plastic blowing around a lot of so-called "organic" farms I've seen in UK. Your pond is pretty deep at 3m so should hold water pretty well, once it has a good layer of byre muck incorporated into the bed. It will also get a good bloom of phytoplankton once the rains come and the fish you stock will grow like blazes so long as the water remains a nice green colour. If it starts clearing up, it looks nice for swimming, but the fish will grow only slowly so chuck another load of muck in on a regular basis. Just avoid over fertilisation, when the fish show signs of stress from lack of oxygen on pond surface in early mornings. Great to hear somebody is making full use of rain water, grey water and septic tank outflow. Even better to hear if some of your neighbours follow your lead in the next few years. Good luck with your project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 plachon, thats a really nifty idea, i've never heard of that before; is there a problem though with health offices as per animal waste etc?? .... we could maybe have done that idea in my park for the fish pond and the duck pond; instead we did the cement deal and even w/biological filter (tuff - a kind of lava gravel from the golan--, and certain types of plants and canvas rough filter) and in the duck pond with tons of ducks we still have to drain the water every two weeks or so in summer or it stinks and the customers complain -- me it doesnt bother but city people dont like to smell manure etc even in an animal park... to drain, we were required to drain into the sewage system because the village down below complained that it was a health threat -- actually it went through the terraces and orchards of both our land and theirs, great fertilizer i think... but the health people and environmental people were ready to fine us huge amounts...what a waste of tons of cubic liters per year can you explain more, or is there a site or something.... maybe in a few years we will redo one of our smaller ponds .. does it have to be deep, as we have one pond sitting on a rocky base and cant dig any deeper (jerusalem stone dont remember the kind and as u know it keeps water in very well as can be seen from all the ancient wine/oil presses carved in the stone, not granite etc.. they make marble from it)... is your idea from thailand or somewhere else?? or is the soil combination in issan areas specifically suitable ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 plachon, thats a really nifty idea, i've never heard of that before; is there a problem though with health offices as per animal waste etc??.... we could maybe have done that idea in my park for the fish pond and the duck pond; instead we did the cement deal and even w/biological filter (tuff - a kind of lava gravel from the golan--, and certain types of plants and canvas rough filter) and in the duck pond with tons of ducks we still have to drain the water every two weeks or so in summer or it stinks and the customers complain -- me it doesnt bother but city people dont like to smell manure etc even in an animal park... to drain, we were required to drain into the sewage system because the village down below complained that it was a health threat -- actually it went through the terraces and orchards of both our land and theirs, great fertilizer i think... but the health people and environmental people were ready to fine us huge amounts...what a waste of tons of cubic liters per year can you explain more, or is there a site or something.... maybe in a few years we will redo one of our smaller ponds .. does it have to be deep, as we have one pond sitting on a rocky base and cant dig any deeper (jerusalem stone dont remember the kind and as u know it keeps water in very well as can be seen from all the ancient wine/oil presses carved in the stone, not granite etc.. they make marble from it)... is your idea from thailand or somewhere else?? or is the soil combination in issan areas specifically suitable ?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bina, not sure where the idea came from - probably direct observation from farmers themselves - or where you can get more info on specifics, just know it works pretty well. As Andrew says, there is a "gelling" effect, and the organic matter helps plug up the pores in the coarse sand grains, although whether it is just physical or chemical bonding as well, am not sure. Of course, if all the muck is at the bottom, there'll still be seepage out the sides, so steep sided ponds will be harder to "plug", than gentle sloping banks which can also be manured. It is the same principle in paddy fields, which are often on sandy soils, but are "puddled" by the effect of shallow ploughing with buffalo and incorporation of organic matter, then scraped flat (not sure the correct term) before in traditional nursery field management. Nowadays, may farmers have given this up and just deep plough with a tractor, quick farrow then direct seed. The valuable surface layer holding the water in is broken and the water retention capacity declines. Result: poorer yields, but time saving. Don't think any health officials would be too bothered by piling in dried muck to a pond, as there are lots of integrated farms where the pigs, chickens, ducks etc., just crap directly in to the pond and nobody complains too much. Until bird flu that is, when there has been a hue and cry about banning any open poultry farming systems, such as integrated chicken - fish farms. Stupid really, as these are far more energy efficient and environmentally friendly than any closed farming systems systems, where the costs are externalised. Jst playing into the hands of the big agribusiness companies, who want us all to consume factory-reared, hormone & antibiotic-laced food at fa(s)t food joints. As this thread is supposed to be about the drought, can report that today is darn hot, overcast and threatening rain in upper Isaan - big black clouds looming. Hope the gods are smiling, or rain-making planes are airborne on w/ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 will have to find a way to ask the guys here and try it.... fo course to them, mechanical modern cement etc is always better..... its something like wattle and daub walls in houses ? hope u all get rain...... u know, the rabbies here have a special prayer that they say every year arround succot (october)... maybe i should have them put a pitch in for thailand et al... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew K Fletcher Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 (edited) Plachon Elephants in Africa have been using that technique for countless thousands of years, carving out water holes and adding their own manure to the sandy soils is a favourite pastime. Funny how the old techniques hold water Now if we take this a step further. The application of manure, including human waste to sandy desert soils, simply has to be the right way to go in order to transform the desert sands into once again fertile soils. Gettin around the stigma of using human sewage as an organic fertiliser is something all countries eventually submit to. Every country in the world which has a scarcity of water, undoubtedly uses its own domestic waste water. And in the Middle East and North Africa, it is used to great effect in reclaiming the deserts! The trees don't seem to mind it either. In the UK we get fined for letting our dogs crap on the floor and not clearing it up after them? Yet we pour billions of tons of sewage into our rivers and coastlines. Fueling phytotoxic algal blooms, which cause the deaths of people who consume shellfish that accumulate the neurotoxins in their systems. Our lakes in the UK become overfertilised with farm run off and the over use of chemical fertilisers. Farms have manure flowing out of their ears and dont know what to do with it, as they are restricted from applying it to the soils, because of excessive rains which wash it down to the streams and rivers along with the nitrates and phosphates they pay so heavlily for. In the West, we import billions of tons of food from overseas, flush it down the toilet with many more billions of litres of clean drinking water, pay a fortune for this service from the now privately owned water companies, whom I might add are making countless £millions profit. And who are responsible for polluting our streams rivers and coastal waters, by heaving the waste of some 60 million people into the sea. Maybe we could all learn something from the elephants cattle and paddy fields? Food for thought Andrew Edited April 3, 2005 by Andrew K Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Amazing thread. I've learned so much from lurking here. Thanks for your insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamdomChances Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Hi Bina, Plachon and the rest of you, I'm still around but have missed this as my connection is really poor at the moment. Where to start , well I'm not an enviromentalist, but I do run a mixed dairy arable farm (100 head and about 70 rai)in central thailand. We live entirly off the farm (moog it the wifes!!) and to be honest a lot of the enviromental stuff does make good comercial scence. We grow maize and sorgram or sun flower and use chicken manure as ferliliser as do most farmers here as its cheaper than chemical stuff. We sell the cow manure (if you use it as a bulk fertiliser on the land you will get loads of weeds) to fish farms and other small farmers (good for fruit trees and veg). What you have to remember about "thai farmers" is that usually there is virtually no capital they struggle from crop to crop sometimes getting into contract with suppliers that supply for free, but then end up tied into that contract. From what I know of thai farmers (and I live and work with them) no a lot gets wasted, many farms have their own Sa (lake/pond??) but this has to be dug out and costs money, altrenativly you can sink a bore which is more reliable but much more expensive and you have running costs (ok you can use a wind pump if its not to deep). Most small farms also have a few livestock to graze on the left overs. I have to be honest this year I have'nt noticed a problem (I do have my own bore though) OK we have'nt had any rain since november but thats not unusual (here anyway) in fact its p1ssed down twice here already and everyone is talking about how good it is that the rains have come early (planting shuold be a month to 6 weeks early this year and I'm in one of the drought affected areas!!) Eucaluypus is a plage here sucks everything out, but it puts rice in the pot of some and once its started its difficult to go back, there has been some experiments with teak plantations in the area that seem to be a long team success, but how many small farmers can wait 20 years for a return. We should be planting teak soon but I'm doing it around the boundry and then spacing them in the cow pastures, all very green until you remember that I fully intend to cut them down a sell them as my pension!!! (you can do that legaly as long as you regester them with the forestry when you plant them) I was supposed to be digging a pond next week to catch all the runoff from the land but it hammered down yeasterday so have to wait for a while until things dry out, we are also going to put a system in that the waste and rain water from the house will run into the pone, as most of the land run off comes from my cow dung rich paddock (about 10 rai) it should develope plant life quite quickly, so there will be some fish in there soon (just for eating and selling). As I've said to Plachon before to get farmers to think about enviromental issues you have to be able to show that at the least they wont lose money and the best they will make some, its fine for us with western educations, internet connections ect but the bottom line with farmers is will it pay? if it does'nt who will help? or how much will it cost me up front? and where is the money coming from.? Anyway interesting thread Cheers RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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