Building Our Pool - From Start To Finish

[chrgrims]

Yesterday the company arrived with the first load of materials. On saturday we will make markings on the ground where the pool will be. From this we can "move it around", until we are satisfied. On tuesday we will start digging. Deadline for finish is december 15th, but i think we will be finished before this.

Some details on the pool:

- made of steel and concrete, 25cm thick, with lifetime warranty. 2,5meter concrete around pool. waterstoppers (6") etc is used. the company has provided drawings. i will put them here later if i get permission. the company has made over 50 pools, and i have seen a few of them myself. From what i can see its good work. The owner of the company is an engineer. I will write the name of the company if i get an ok from them.

- the pool is a skimmer pool, 6x12m, 1m-1,5m deep (a straight slope with no edges).

- the tile is Lompang tile (Mook Pra Kay Fah color), handmade.

- sandfilter 36" astralpool, model 00501. without valve.

- pump from astralpool, cv hp 2 II, model 20605. self priming.

- salt water chlorinator from Hurlcon, model vx13t. max chlorine output pr hour 50grams.

- lights 300w from astralpool.

Total cost is 1 mill baht, contract is signed. Payments will be made in increments, the last one week after completion. Price also includes pipes to the pump, and concrete to cover the pipes.

I am an academic from the social sciences, so i dont have much knowledge about pool building. But it will be fun to learn. I will post updates here with pics and all. Please feel free to give feedback!

Here is the garden, before any work has started. The plan is to make the pool 3 meter from the left side of the fence and 15meter from the house (the point where the photo is taken from).

[cdnvic]

Before you buy the lights I'd recommend putting in LED lights. The prices aren't too much higher and you will save a lot of power running them. That and they are more durable and last far longer.

[Valentine]

I agree about using LED lights as it sound slik eyou are being quoted the car headlamp variety & it should be noted the Australian safety standard is now 12v 100w for pool lights.

L-Thai tiles can vary in size & not so easy to lay & there are many alternatives which I consider to be better in terms of price & range of colours.

[chrgrims]

Ok, i looked at LED. Definitely seems to be the best choice. You write LED lights, i presume this means that its not possible to put LED bulbs in normal sockets?

[xerostar]

I guess it's too late to offer the OP any more advice since the deal has been signed already.

Just a few points worth mentioning that might help others considering having a pool built.

I had a pool built by my 2 BIL's (concrete workers) earlier this year, also steel reinforced concrete.

5M wide x 12M long, with a 3 cubic metre balance tank. 100,000 Litres in all.

1M deep at the shallow end and 2.5M deep at the deep end.

I wish we had made the pool deeper at the deep end because the water gets too warm on a hot day.

We used those tiny glass tiles in tones of blue.

There's a lot of grout which easily gets dirty!

So even after cleaning the pool, it still looks grotty.

The small tiles come off easily if you catch an edge with the pool hose/suction head.

I wish we had used larger tiles or even a fibreglass skin. (Probably will eventually)

I wish we had placed the pump lower, close to the pool water level (or even lower).

The pump loses its prime easily because its too high (18" above top level in balance tank) and the foot valve leaks.

I tried installing a better quality foot valve but it leaks too when leaves or bugs get stuck in it.

We have an overflow grating 5M long at one end of the pool draining into the balance tank - it works very well.

I wish we had made the balance tank bigger. 3M x 3M x 3M is not enough.

I wish I had made an automatic top-up valve connected to the house supply.

I have to do it manually and big problems arise if it's not done regularly.

Also I don't know what level the water's at in the Balance tank so I have to lift the manhole cover which is about 50Kg.

I need to install some sort of skimmer inside the balance tank. It gets full of junk very quickly and

can only be cleaned properly by getting in there through the manhole, scrubbing with abrasive cleaner

and hosing out. It can take a half day or more to do it properly.

Only when the balance tank is overflowing is there any sort of skimmer effect for floating leaves, insects or frog spawn.

A lot of contaminants swirl around and eventually get pumped up and caught by the sand filter.

The heavier fine sand particles (wind born) stay on the bottom of the tank until cleaned up by hand.

We have a large main overflow pipe leading from the balance tank. Lucky we had that because with some of the

heavy rain downpours in recent months we could have had flooding in the house.

The balance tank can suck dry during a dry spell when we lose water by evaporation and "other" means.

I wish we had done a meticulous pressure test on all pipework before backfilling.

I suspect one of the pipe joints was not glued. We were losing a lot of water every day.

Nobody wanted to admit forgetting to glue a pipe! What can you do?

Dig up the tiles, concrete, tons of earth. chip away bucket loads of concrete and

saw through steel to find the leak? Not likely!

I've plugged the bottom drains and thats slowed the leak a lot. But I can't pump from there now.

I have got some "Stop Leak" fluid from the USA but waiting for dry weather to try it.

With postage cost $132 for 2 Litres.

We lose a lot of chlorine/soda ash everytime it rains heavy - same anywhere I guess.

I should have made the pool cleaning hose inlet underwater near the centre of the pool.

As it is, above water at one end, the pool hose is too short (12M) and it's hard to get it running.

Tiny air leaks in the "quality" hose from China make it lose prime easily.

I wish I'd bought the better quality hose made in USA. (wil eventually)

I bought an automatic chlorine/acid dosing system that requires "liquid" chlorine.

Suitable "liquid" chlorine can only be purchased in 2 Litre containers in Thailand.

The manufacturers refuse to supply bulk container lots.

So we use powder instead .. so much for the auto system.. (will buy a lot of bleach next time in Big C - not!)

Apart from those few little problems it 's been a breeze!

It's a bit like life really - if only known what I know now, I would have made a much better job of it!

Anyway a pool wasn't meant to make life easy! It just gives you a lot more things to do!

I can always sit near the pool in the evening, drink a cold beer and smile as think about the money I saved

by not hiring a professional pool builder!

The beer gives you a sort of temporary amnesia - you need that!

[chrgrims]

My contractor is a professional company, FWIW. My contract is signed but the company i am dealing with are easy to talk to, and they say i still can change things. For example, I talked to them about changing to LED lights, thats np. So, your advice will not go to waste. Anyways, most of the problems u describe i think I already avoided, and some can be avoided with good planning. Our pump is planned to be put at the same level as the pool, which means just over water level (but not under the ground, like some pools). I will take pics when the building starts, so we can make adjustments if something isnt right. I am at home every day and can keep a good eye on things. And with the good knowledge of the thaivisa forum guys, i am pretty confident we have a good foundation to make a good pool.

as for the heat problem, maybe this can be fixed with a cover over the pool? think about it. I will try this too, i have a nice fence i can use and stretch a net over the pool.

[steelepulse]

Lighter colored tiles will also help keep the pool cooler, especially if your pool gets a lot of direct sunlight.

[xerostar]

I forgot to mention.

There is another thread that discussed the pros and cons of LED lights.

Yep I chose LED cycling muli colour. Not recommended.

The Blue colour is great but red or green look ghastly in blue water.

Also they are not powerful enough to light up a large pool unless you install 2 or 3.

Previously I've had 12 volt headlight style lamps and they lasted 30 years or more.

[RubbaJohnny]

I guess it's too late to offer the OP any more advice since the deal has been signed already.

Just a few points worth mentioning that might help others considering having a pool built.

I had a pool built by my 2 BIL's (concrete workers) earlier this year, also steel reinforced concrete.

5M wide x 12M long, with a 3 cubic metre balance tank. 100,000 Litres in all.

1M deep at the shallow end and 2.5M deep at the deep end.

Excellet input can you advise a ball park figure per cubic metre and what size pump might need for 50m cubed?

[chrgrims]

Today we made the markings for the pool. The top of the pool will be about 1,3 meter over the ground at the outer edge. This is necessary to keep the pool at the same height as the house (the garden has a slope). the pump will be placed under the house. I also got permission today to name the company, its U-tai pools, Bangkok.

view from the kitchen door:

View from the side:

view from the outer edge of the garden:

At the outer edge the pool will be very high compared to the fence. So I think we must make an addition to the fence here, so that dogs etc dont jump over:

and here is the drawing of the pool:

As always, comments and feedback are welcome,

cheers Chr

[chrgrims]

Today we had a meeting here with the company and the workers. The engineer, U-tai, talked about placing of the pump, shape of the pool etc. We decided to make the pool 1,20 m deep at the shallow end instead of 1m.

We also decided to build the pool about 50cm lower into the ground, because the original plan created problems close to the fence (a very high pool and a fence that must keep the weight of a lot of earth and concrete. This means that we get a garden with 2 levels, and stairs from the house down to the pool level. Water from the higher level will be drained away with channels in the concrete out to the side. the pool will be 20 cm over the lower level. We also discussed the possibility of putting small stone instead of concrete in the deck area around the pool, creating natural drainage. This would mean 2 meter concrete around pool, then stone and then a porch. U-tai said that he will install a pump with more power, because the pump will be at the house, about 50-100 cm over the water level.

We also looked at some automatic pool covers. Some are submerged (must be built at same time as pool) and some are not. We have a lot of rain and frogs here, so we are really considering getting this.

The tile color we have chosen is a blue-greenish type. We loved this color when we saw it used in the pool at the cliff beach hotel in rayong (http://www.plataniresort.com/rayong_pool.htm). We are unsure if the color of the tile is good when lit up by the LED lights. So, maybe we will choose a different tile color.

We also got an offer for a spa with chairs on concrete, 6 jets. We were offered a good price . But I am unsure at this point whether to build this, because we will get a lot of expenses regarding the garden, pool cover, road, porch etc.

[Valentine]

As you will be using a saltwater chlorinator you do not have to worry about frogs in the pool as they do not like salt water.

[chrgrims]

yesterday we had a big digging day. a huge digger was rolled in, it almost couldnt get inside our garden! once inside, it dug very fast. here are some pics:

on another note: we received a very expensive offer for LED lights. We might have to go with the initial offer, and then change later to LED, if possible. we are looking at cleaning robots, especially astralpool, cause thats what our poolcompany offers.

[chrgrims]

We are also looking at test kits for pool water. after reading troublefreepool.com, it seems like most test kits are not very good. FAS/DPD test for free chlorine is especially important. i emailed lamotte in thailand to hear if their kit is with the FAS/DPD or not.

[chrgrims]

Today a big truck with sand came, ready to be put on the bottom of the pit. the workers started making small "cakes" of concrete. i was told it has something to do with support for the iron.

Here the workers are preparing the pit for sand. On the bottom left is a pump:

More concrete "cakes":

[Musty]

Sounds like a great start to your project. All the best.

If possible, could I ascertain the builders details? (name/contact details)

Ready to resource a similar project.

Many thanks

MUSTY

[chrgrims]

Musty, i will send u a PM.

Yesterday the first car with concrete arrived. first the workers used a machine to harden the sand, then the concrete was put on top.

Edited September 5, 2009 by chrgrims

[chrgrims]

Today they started with the steel.

We had an accident when the big car with the concrete came, it crashed into one of our gates. But the gate itself is repairable, and the workers said they would fix it. Except for this all is going well as far as i can see. the workers seem to be sharp and doing good work.

cheers, chr

Edited September 8, 2009 by chrgrims

[Valentine]

I cannot tell from the photos what type of steel but I hope it is 12mm 'D' bar. I assume the PVC pipe is for floor inlets which I try & avoid at all costs as most of the inlets look pretty terrible after a couple of years but mainly because if the pipe is compromised it is a major job to repair or replace. Otherwise they look to be making good prgress & you should have the floor slab in place soon.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Valentine

[chrgrims]

What is the alternative to this kind of inlet pipe? Of course we cant change this now, but its always nice to know.

[perousing]

Musty, i will send u a PM.

Yesterday the first car with concrete arrived. first the workers used a machine to harden the sand, then the concrete was put on top.

are there no piles in the ground to take the load of the concrete slab to stop it from cracking ??

[chrgrims]

There are no piles in the ground under the concrete, just sand. as i understand it, the first layer of concrete is just a bed. a friend of mine from the homeland says this is ok, because there will be another layer of concrete over this. but he could be wrong of course, let me hear it if you think so and why.

chr

Edited September 9, 2009 by chrgrims

[Valentine]

What is the alternative to this kind of inlet pipe? Of course we cant change this now, but its always nice to know.

Eyeball inlets in the wall as there is much less stress on the pipe considering it is not under a concrete slab plus tons of water & a much better chance to effect a repair if needed. There is really no need for piles or footings if the land is solid & you are not below the water table.

[perousing]

There are no piles in the ground under the concrete, just sand. as i understand it, the first layer of concrete is just a bed. a friend of mine from the homeland says this is ok, because there will be another layer of concrete over this. but he could be wrong of course, let me hear it if you think so and why.

chr

hi chrgrims when i had my pool built by home and pools pattaya 4years ago they put 5 piles in the ground to take the load of the slab and water in the pool these piles were about 1metre by 1metre and filled with concrete then the slab was layed on top, never had a problem with the pool, there is a lot of presure goes on the slab

[chrgrims]

ok, it will be interesting to follow. I just learned that there will be TWO layers of steel. This might be the reason for it being less pressure on the pipe, what do you think guys?

On a general note, please try to not use words like "terrible" unless it really is terrible, meaning it compromises the fundamentals of the usability of the pool. Words like "not preferable" is much better. Why? because i am not a construction expert and get nervous about the process when such strong words are used.

thanks for the comments and looking forward to more!

cheers, chr

[xerostar]

There is no need for piles under a pool.

Except if you were building the pool on the side of a hill, or if you were building a

water-tower in the middle of the pool.

The pressures involved can be explained like this:

The total pressure on the floor for say 100,000 Litres would be 100 Tonnes!

Wow that sounds a lot!

But when you divide that figure by the pool floor area alone (not counting the sides)

say, 12 x 5 Metres = 60 square metres = 600,000 square cm = 0.1666 Kg per square cm

i.e. not very much pressure at all ..

So the floor of a swimming pool does not need any extra support underneath.

I know these figures are simplistic but it gives you a rough perspective of what

forces are involved.

Most concrete pools are highly over-engineered.

They are designed to maintain their shape under all circumstances

i.e. any surrounding earth movement or water-table variations

(where the use of a hydrostatic valve is very important).

Concrete needs a lot of steel reinforcement just to hold it's own shape without cracking

- especially when the pool is empty!

When the pool is full, the water simply balances the forces of the surrounding

earth pushing against the concrete. So the forces are balanced and minimal,

as long as the soil is stable.

Just think of the fibreglass alternative!

Fibreglass works well as a material for pool construction.

And yet it's only 1 cm thick on the walls and bottom!

Albeit they usually have some external "ribs" to reinforce the sides and bottom for transport.

What is notable is the upper reinforced ring that ensures the pool retains its shape.

The same design rules apply for the concrete - the upper ring has to be extra strong

to prevent the sides from being pushed inward by the surrounding soil when the pool is empty

or partially filled.

[perousing]

There is no need for piles under a pool.

Except if you were building the pool on the side of a hill, or if you were building a

water-tower in the middle of the pool.

The pressures involved can be explained like this:

The total pressure on the floor for say 100,000 Litres would be 100 Tonnes!

Wow that sounds a lot!

But when you divide that figure by the pool floor area alone (not counting the sides)

say, 12 x 5 Metres = 60 square metres = 600,000 square cm = 0.1666 Kg per square cm

i.e. not very much pressure at all ..

So the floor of a swimming pool does not need any extra support underneath.

I know these figures are simplistic but it gives you a rough perspective of what

forces are involved.

Most concrete pools are highly over-engineered.

They are designed to maintain their shape under all circumstances

i.e. any surrounding earth movement or water-table variations

(where the use of a hydrostatic valve is very important).

Concrete needs a lot of steel reinforcement just to hold it's own shape without cracking

- especially when the pool is empty!

When the pool is full, the water simply balances the forces of the surrounding

earth pushing against the concrete. So the forces are balanced and minimal,

as long as the soil is stable.

Just think of the fibreglass alternative!

Fibreglass works well as a material for pool construction.

And yet it's only 1 cm thick on the walls and bottom!

Albeit they usually have some external "ribs" to reinforce the sides and bottom for transport.

What is notable is the upper reinforced ring that ensures the pool retains its shape.

The same design rules apply for the concrete - the upper ring has to be extra strong

to prevent the sides from being pushed inward by the surrounding soil when the pool is empty

or partially filled.

i stand corrected good explanation xerostar

[robertsonmartin]

I cannot tell from the photos what type of steel but I hope it is 12mm 'D' bar. I assume the PVC pipe is for floor inlets which I try & avoid at all costs as most of the inlets look pretty terrible after a couple of years but mainly because if the pipe is compromised it is a major job to repair or replace. Otherwise they look to be making good prgress & you should have the floor slab in place soon.

Could it be for the main drain?

[Valentine]

I cannot tell from the photos what type of steel but I hope it is 12mm 'D' bar. I assume the PVC pipe is for floor inlets which I try & avoid at all costs as most of the inlets look pretty terrible after a couple of years but mainly because if the pipe is compromised it is a major job to repair or replace. Otherwise they look to be making good prgress & you should have the floor slab in place soon.

Could it be for the main drain?

I suppose it could but I do not like the idea of having the pipe under the whole pool when it could be cut down to about 1m exiting at the deep end.

[robertsonmartin]

I cannot tell from the photos what type of steel but I hope it is 12mm 'D' bar. I assume the PVC pipe is for floor inlets which I try & avoid at all costs as most of the inlets look pretty terrible after a couple of years but mainly because if the pipe is compromised it is a major job to repair or replace. Otherwise they look to be making good prgress & you should have the floor slab in place soon.

Could it be for the main drain?

I suppose it could but I do not like the idea of having the pipe under the whole pool when it could be cut down to about 1m exiting at the deep end.

Very true. I suppose another way to protect any pipes running through the concrete could be to run them inside a concrete pipe first to relieve the majority of pressure on the blue pipes.

Out of curiosity, what material are the pipes used in the construction of pools in western countries?