Lesbians Are Accepted In Thai Society,

[Travel2003]

The thread is about Thai lesbianism, not reduced European fecundity or Euro politics.

Agree.

And here is something about Toms.

I mentioned it in a thread some time back.

At first I was amazed about it, but soon I got annoyed about it.

Why is it ok for a Tom to try to pick up any girl she likes?

Even already taken girls.

They try and try, and most people just giggle when they try.

How many of us have not seen Toms with their harems out on town?

Many times with 2-3 Dees with them.

Naturally, the deal is that the Tom picks up the bill.

And still they flirt and try to pick up girls that are already in a relationship.

Oh, and yes, I actually like it when people are argumentative.

I remember my brother was so upset about this.

He was furious.

Do the Toms want to be a boy or a girl?

If they want to be a boy, then they should also accept the fist in their face when they try to pick someone's gf up, infront of the bf's face.

How would the average man react if another guy tried to pick up his gf, strait infront of him?

Seems to be some special rules for the Toms here.

I have absolutely no problem with gays/lesbians/transvestites.

But I hate it when they try to "recruit" people without any discretion.

I am not trying to be argumentative as I think that kind of behavior is just plain rude, but is that really any different from guys hitting on a woman when the guy she came with is off in the rest room?  Sometimes, I think there is some sort of behavioral switch buried along the Thai border, a sort of moral Maginot Line, and when a plane crosses it, the electronic impulses this line send out turns off or jams the moral compass with which most men embrace and follow when they are in their home countries.

I agree with you.

It is no excuse for whomever it is.

However, there is a difference from trying and being politely shot down, and trying and trying, and still many think it is just cute, or funny.

Btw, I can see we are in the bad farang phase again in the media these days.

Thats a discussion for another thread.

Back to this topic.

What annoys me is that a lot of people dont see it as the same issue, wheter it is a guy, or a Tom, when they try to pick up someone already engaged.

[sabaijai]

My observations on tom/dee culture accord more or less with those of Andrew, who knows more about Thai culture and about gender identity than many - probably most - expats I've met here.

[sassienie]

Non-reproducing, elderly, macho males will be taken care of by my 11 grandchildren and their grandchildren, and by gays and toms and dees..

In my younger days a gay was someone displaying cheerfulness, light hearted and merry

A tomboy was a girl who was boyish in dress and behaviour, such as in the film Calamity Jane, for example.

And can anyone tell me, what is a dee?

They have changed the definitions to suit themselves.

The actual terms are lesbians and homo sexuals. So out of lack of knowledge, I ask is it now considered derogatory to classify these groups under these titles? If so, why?

Below is examples that I consider to be real definitions of a tomboy and what is gay:

[Jingthing]

Toms and dees, how Thais refer to lesbians, tom being a more masculine lesbian woman and dee being a more feminine lesbian. These are THAI words, yes derived from English, but still they are now Thai words! American lesbians for example use different terms for this.

Here you go:

A vibrant, growing, and highly visible set of female identities has emerged in Thailand known as tom and dee. A "tom" (from "tomboy") refers to a masculine woman who is sexually involved with a feminine partner, or "dee" (from "lady"). The patterning of female same-sex relationships into masculine and feminine pairs, coupled with the use of English-derived terms to refer to them, is found throughout East and Southeast Asia. Have the forces of capitalism facilitated the dissemination of Western-style gay and lesbian identities throughout the developing world as some theories of transnationalism suggest? Is the emergence of toms and dees over the past twenty-five years a sign that this has occurred in Thailand?

http://www.utopia-asia.com/ucool/article_tomsand.htm

The words lesbian and homosexual are just fine. Be advised that there is no space between homo and sexual and you're good to go.

There is a long history of the word gay and its association with homosexuals in the homosexual subculture. As a gay homosexual, I sincerely apologize to you for stealing your word. I hope you can find a way to cope with your loss ...

There were other words that could have been elevated from our subculture but were not. For example, Uranian. Language changes, that's just a reality.

BTW, the recruiting comment of another poster, that's kind of rude. Think of it from a gay perspective, how many times do you think we have been recruited to heterosexuality (starting at a very young age by our own parents!)? You are what you are, if someone hits on you, you should feel flattered that you are cute enough!

[sbk]

I am not trying to be argumentative as I think that kind of behavior is just plain rude, but is that really any different from guys hitting on a woman when the guy she came with is off in the rest room?

none whatsoever. Or a guy hitting on a woman who is clearly uninterested and then labelling her a bitch or cold because, perhaps she'd rather not at the time.

I think, for some members, the sexuality and/or gender of the person is more important than the actual act.