Self Medication For Severe Depression, Anxiety And Fatigue

[philo]

I am 52, have been self medicating on alcohol for 20-30 yaers, but it is starting to take it's toll on the brain and liver (also the autonomous nerve system; abdominal spasms).

The deterioration got really bad after I married here 4 years ago, and got even worse after having a child (now children; don't ask why).

I now live separately from my wife (which I now am really afraid of (I would rather lose my left hand than see a missed call from her) - she is a hothead and can be cruel beyond belief) and children (who I feel very sorry, guilty and ashamed towards: and worry about every second).

I am not suicidal (only insanely self destructive).

I spend most of my days in my room, and has a tuk tuk driver bringing me water, food, beer, tissue etc. and collecting laundry. Once or trice a week I venture outside. I use my time working (academically via internet), and arrange as much as can for my children (foreign citizenship, passport, social security number, bank accounts, private health insurance here, free public healthcare in my country of origin, documentation needed by my wife to apply for child and widow pension when I die, etcetera etcetara).

I do not have the energy to go and see a phsychiatrist.

I sometimes take 5 mg Diazepam (one or three a week), but it doesn't help. If I take two I get even more depressed.

A few months ago I took Lorazepam 1mg one or two times a day, but I dumped them because I read they are even more addictive.

I once was given Trazodone 50 mg (8 tablets) when I tried to stop drinking, but I never took them.

Stopping drinking is not an option now, reducing from 20 cans a day to 10 could be.

So there you are: Anyone can suggest a DIY thing that can be combined with alcohol?

Thanks

[ma91c1an]

You are killing yourself.

You need to consider a stay in a residential facility to get yourself under control. You need to quit drinking, period, and you need to have a competent psychiatrist concoct an appropriate cocktail of psych meds for you. This can be done far more effectively and efficiently if you are in a residential facility under a psychiatrist's care than if you attempt to do it on an out-patient basis. Then you need to sit down with a competent psychologist to do some work on your demons. A social worker can help you map out immediate, mid-term, and long-term goals, and help you draft a plan to attain them. It will probably cost you less than you realize. When you consider that it will probably also save your life, that skews the cost-benefit ratio even further in your favor.

No one with an ounce of sense is going to recommend any medications for you over an internet forum. That would be the height of malpractice. There is a good reason why most psych medications require a doctor's prescription, even in an over-the-counter mecca like Thailand: they are hazardous in the hands of the untutored. Many of them have nasty side-effects. Some can make you suicidal. I feel a responsibility to give it to you straight: you are stupid for even contemplating an effort to medicate yourself, especially when your liver values are probably compromised, and you may not even be capable of metabolizing certain medications. You do realize that you are destroying your liver, right?

You are clearly not making good choices for yourself. You can reverse that trend with one simple phone call. Just for the record: I have no relationship with the firm below, and I gain nothing from offering you this advice. If you must know, others assisted me when I was in your shoes a decade ago. Out of gratitude to them, I am "paying it forward," and recommending that you hear me, and not simply let my words go in one ear and out the other. You can treat yourself better. And you should.

To get started, call Psychological Services International on Sukhumvit Soi 43: 02 259 1467. They can make the appropriate referrals for you. They offer a sliding fee scale which is based upon your ability to pay. I am pretty sure that they accept insurance, in the event that you are carrying any coverage. If not, do not worry about it. Make the call, and handle the financial end of it as you go. It will not be as costly as you expect. In fact, it will probably cost significantly less than what you spend on alcohol on a weekly basis.

Or, you can just keep boozing it up in your little room. Until you die.

Though I do not know you, I hope that you make a constructive decision. Good luck.

Edited September 6, 2009 by ma91c1an

[chakatee]

Doesn't sound as depression to me. From what I read DSM-IV 301.50 comes much closer I guess.

Anyway to put "Severe" and "self-medicating" or "OTC" in 1 sentence is always contra-indicated.

Go and see a doctor.

[Mario2008]

The question is if you can do it yourself. It seems to me that you won't get out of this on your own and strongly advice you to seek professional help. But that only works if you are motivated, which you are not. You will have to motivate yourself. You sho you can do things if you have the right motivation, like for your children. See a shrink for them. There are a few good medicins available, but you only will get them on prescrition and I doubt they are wise to combine with alcohol.

One of the best things you can do is start doing things and not just hang around at home. Go to a sport school, volunteer somewhere.

[pete66]

The question is if you can do it yourself. It seems to me that you won't get out of this on your own and strongly advice you to seek professional help. But that only works if you are motivated, which you are not. You will have to motivate yourself. You sho you can do things if you have the right motivation, like for your children. See a shrink for them. There are a few good medicins available, but you only will get them on prescrition and I doubt they are wise to combine with alcohol.

One of the best things you can do is start doing things and not just hang around at home. Go to a sport school, volunteer somewhere.

1) Get off the alcohol, even if just for a short period to start. The first 48-72 hours are hard. You will feel weak, probably with fever etc. After that, it should get easier. If you can't do it on your own, find a support group. Maybe someone knows support groups here?

2) (If you don't know already) find out why you are self-medicating. If you don't sort out the cause, you will be back on the booze within a short time.

3) See a doctor who specializes in alcohol abuse. They can help with (1) and (2)

Your children don't want documentation, health care and the like. They want your love. Don't comfort yourself with paperwork, that you are doing right by them. Paperwork means shit to your children. They need you, a father, no amount of "long-term security" will ever make up for having a permanently drunk dad.

And remember, you are going on a journey. Its day by day, hour by hour, and real hard to start. But the more steps you take, the stronger you will get, the easier it will become. It takes real guts to start the journey. I know. But do it for your children and yourself. I know you can. Just start by not drinking for 48 hours and using that time to find a doctor. You don't need pills whilst you are drinking. They'll just get you into a gutter somewhere.

If its any help, what I did to start was to promise, verbally and written, to my son that I would stop drinking. That sort of thing may help you. Good luck.

[pete66]

btw, do you have physical contact with your children? If not, I empathize as I was prevented access to my son for 2 years. Regular physical contact will help you in all respects - motivation to stop drinking, facing consequences of your actions etc.

And yes, I understand about not wanting to have to deal with your wife. That is something you will be able to deal with once you have sorted out your immediate problems. You currently can't imagine being able to deal with her. Which is why you are still married to her.

But one step at a time. You need some strength first. Drunks don't have any. Find a way to stop drinking. Otherwise you will never deal with any of the other shit.

[rixalex]

They say that accepting you have a problem is the hardest step. You've already done that bit. All you need now is the motivation to do something about it. You have kids so that shouldn't be a problem.

Look at it this way, life surely can't get much worse than it is now. What's to lose? Get out of your room and get the professional help you so desperately need. What's the worst that can happen?

Really hope you do something about this now. It's never too late.

[Insight]

What Rixalex said, along with pretty much everybody else.

Alcohol is your biggest enemy right now. You need to get it under control (meaning stop). Once that's done it's highly likely your depression will all but disappear.

Despite what you think right now you are totally capable of doing this. Make the phone call ma91c1an suggested.

[philo]

I recognize in myself traits of Major depressive disorder, Anxiety disorder mixed with aspects of Borderline personality disorder and (maybe) Histrionic personality disorder.

Thinking that you can just walk into a hospital (however expencive) in Thailand and tell them you are an alcoholic with one or more mental illnesses is like thinking Santa Claus will come at Songkran. I have tried it 4 times - from Chula in BKK, via the big private one, a Christian one to a small private hospital in NK. Thai hospitals don't treat things they can't see (it could be a ghost (sic)). They push pills.

Since I can pay (private HI and refunds from national health care back 'home') 15-20k a day, I have been offered a room, a balcony to smoke and a cute nurse to look after me - admitted on a created 'decent' and 'proper' medical diagnosis. I didn't bother, I would probably end up sending the nurse out to buy beer.

So I guess I will look at the curricuulum for 'SSRI 101'.

I won't die today.

BTW I am not drunk, the tolerance to alcohol is now very high (I would need two bottles if liquer to get pissed). And i don't understand how you can 'booze' beer.

(PS I have been with the children all the time since they were born. It is only the last two weeks that I only see them 2-3 times a week. The one of them that understands anything (2.5 yrs.) 'knows' that her father has to go to work (for hours, days or may be even months) to get money (it happens even in farangland). The other one is only 5 mths.)

[justaphase]

What Rixalex said, along with pretty much everybody else.

Alcohol is your biggest enemy right now. You need to get it under control (meaning stop). Once that's done it's highly likely your depression will all but disappear.

Despite what you think right now you are totally capable of doing this. Make the phone call ma91c1an suggested.

I suffered from a nervous breakdown 10 years ago after 15 years of heroin and alchohol abuse. I realise there is no easy way out but you have to stop drinking.. period. Take a look at your life and ask yourself "why do i drink?" Bordom..? Do something else.. get out more.. any addiction can be overcome in just a month or so but you need to immerse yourself in something different.. I know you may have heard this many times from Thai people but "dont think too much" Do u have friends here who do not drink..? Do something that doesnt involve getting pissed.

[scorecard]

btw, do you have physical contact with your children? If not, I empathize as I was prevented access to my son for 2 years. Regular physical contact will help you in all respects - motivation to stop drinking, facing consequences of your actions etc.

And yes, I understand about not wanting to have to deal with your wife. That is something you will be able to deal with once you have sorted out your immediate problems. You currently can't imagine being able to deal with her. Which is why you are still married to her.

But one step at a time. You need some strength first. Drunks don't have any. Find a way to stop drinking. Otherwise you will never deal with any of the other shit.

I don't claim to know any specific answers to your situation, but I do know that there's a very valuable point in the above post - don't try to tackle everything at once.

Please take the advice already offered to contact the people on Sukhumvit.

Please accept my very best wishes for astep by step improvement of your situation - you can do it!

[pete66]

I recognize in myself traits of Major depressive disorder, Anxiety disorder mixed with aspects of Borderline personality disorder and (maybe) Histrionic personality disorder.

Thinking that you can just walk into a hospital (however expencive) in Thailand and tell them you are an alcoholic with one or more mental illnesses is like thinking Santa Claus will come at Songkran. I have tried it 4 times - from Chula in BKK, via the big private one, a Christian one to a small private hospital in NK. Thai hospitals don't treat things they can't see (it could be a ghost (sic)). They push pills.

Since I can pay (private HI and refunds from national health care back 'home') 15-20k a day, I have been offered a room, a balcony to smoke and a cute nurse to look after me - admitted on a created 'decent' and 'proper' medical diagnosis. I didn't bother, I would probably end up sending the nurse out to buy beer.

So I guess I will look at the curricuulum for 'SSRI 101'.

I won't die today.

BTW I am not drunk, the tolerance to alcohol is now very high (I would need two bottles if liquer to get pissed). And i don't understand how you can 'booze' beer.

(PS I have been with the children all the time since they were born. It is only the last two weeks that I only see them 2-3 times a week. The one of them that understands anything (2.5 yrs.) 'knows' that her father has to go to work (for hours, days or may be even months) to get money (it happens even in farangland). The other one is only 5 mths.)

Maybe Thai hospitals do push pills, but then again your "solution" appears to be exactly the same thing.

"I didn't bother with the treatment" sounds like an excuse from an alcoholic to me .....

It also seems significant that you are asking for help now, very soon after you have been separated from your children. Has it finally hit you that your lifestyle has horrible consequences? If so, then thats probably a good thing. It might save your life.

As for "not dieing today", well probably not. None of us know "the day" thank god. But life has to be about quality as well. Being stuck in a room with a tuk-tuk driving bring you water and beer? Is that a life? Could you have imagined yourself in that state even 5 years ago? I hope this is the bottom for you, and you can start making positive choices.

Like everyone is saying, pick up the phone and talk to someone. Sounds positive to me.

[Ijustwannateach]

Philo, if even part of what you say about yourself is accurate, you need professional help and I will join the chorus of other members encouraging you to seek it out as soon as possible.

[Mario2008]

If I'm not mistaken Philo is in the Chiang Mai area and he is making steps. he has already been to several doctors and looks up information about what is wrong with him. He isn't doing so wrong that he needs to be commited and can probably manage with out-patient care.

But any help will also include stop drinking. There is a pinned topic in the health forum with mental health specialist for western people, have a look at it.

I believe the Chinese word for crisis is made up of the signs for danger and change. There is a lot of wisdom in that.

[philo]

I am sorry I have to repeat it: Stopping drinking now is not an option.

I have been joining AA-meetings for over a year. The only positive result (apart from meeting people I can identify with) has been that I now realize that I am in trouble, and can not 'Happy go Lucky' anymore.

I will - repeat will - try some drugs. My brother (50) is a non drinker, but is on heavy medication for the same symptoms.

When I have sorted out the things I need here, I will probably go back to Europe and demand to be admitted in a hospital with a psychiatric ward.

Many foreigners here have to go back to their country (or the middle east or ...) severeal times a year to earn money. The children will not die from staying with their mother and extended family for a few months.

Back on topic: SSRI 101

[Mario2008]

What is SSRI 101?

If you don't feel comfortable now to stop drinking, and plan to go and seek professional help in Europe, than don't. But do as you said yourself and reduce the drinking. It will help when you are ready to seek treatment.

[Geekfreaklover]

Philo,

You can of course self medicate with alcohol. But I doubt you are a doctor. Neither am I, but from expereince I would avoid any benzos and SSRI's simply don't help with alcoholic depression. Sounds like you will have to taper of from alcohol before you detox completly. The problem is once you get down to a small amount of booze a day you will think that you can handle it and start heavy drinking again. Thats the nature of the beast. I would suggest trying to get your alcohol intake down. Try using Atarax to help sleep (no mre than 100 mils a day) and St Johns Wort in the morning to improve your mood. B vitamins. Try to get out everyday, if it's just to the market. The longer you stay at home the worse it gets. Drink lots of tea and lots of water then get yourself to a hospital or a medical facility for the cold turkey for 5-10 days. This needs to be followed up with more therapy to deal with why you drink and learn the tools to stop the repatative circle that you find yourself in. One of the forum members recommends Thamkrambok Monestry in Lopburi who offer a free stay for up to a month to get really clean. They use the vitamin vomit approach. Harsh but effective. One of the forum sponsers has a clinic (that looks more like a holiday resort!!) in Khantanciiburi (spelt that wrong!). There a number of meetings over the country. You have a telephone number right above from another member. Lots of options.

Anxiety, panic disorders and depression can be caused by drug/drink withdrawal for the heavy user. Likewise people with anxiety can be drawn towards drugs/drink. How will you know if the drink is causing the depression or the depression is causing the drink unless you stop drinking for a month?

Thousands of people are going through this everyday. Best of luck.

GFL

Edited September 6, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[pete66]

I am sorry I have to repeat it: Stopping drinking now is not an option.

I have been joining AA-meetings for over a year. The only positive result (apart from meeting people I can identify with) has been that I now realize that I am in trouble, and can not 'Happy go Lucky' anymore.

I will - repeat will - try some drugs. My brother (50) is a non drinker, but is on heavy medication for the same symptoms.

When I have sorted out the things I need here, I will probably go back to Europe and demand to be admitted in a hospital with a psychiatric ward.

Many foreigners here have to go back to their country (or the middle east or ...) severeal times a year to earn money. The children will not die from staying with their mother and extended family for a few months.

Back on topic: SSRI 101

Just curious - why is stopping drinking not an option? Does that mean you have tried and failed before? If so, try again.

About drugs - of course if someone is a non-drinker, he can take SSRIs. But you are a drinker. SSRIs are anti-depressants. And alcohol is a depressant. You don't seem to be thinking very clearly at the moment. You mentioned in the first post you are taking pills but they don't help. So why take them?

Stop drinking and you will start thinking 100% more clearly

Have you really gone to AA meetings for a whole year and kept drinking through that entire time? Should have saved yourself the tuk-tuk fare.....

Nobody is blaming you for being apart from your children, most farangs in Thailand go through it, but you seem quite defensive about that aspect. You mentioned the shame and guilt you feel in your first post. Anger as well perhaps?

You don't seem ready to stop yet. And if you don't want to stop, there isn't a person (or drug) on this planet that can help you. Why not call that number now? Why wait till you "probably" go back to Europe?

Just more excuses I'm afraid. Delay delay delay = drink drink drink. I know, I've been there. If you wanted help, you would have called that number an hour ago. You just want another "easy option". But the news is bad. There is no easy option.

(Sincerely) good luck with making good choices in the near future.

[rixalex]

Stopping drinking now is not an option.

Because you can't or because you won't?

The answer to all your problems is very obvious. Whether you face it or not is your choice.

If an obese person came to you complaining that their health was in danger and that they wanted to do something about it, and that they were prepared to do anything, as long as they didn't have to give up their habit of eating 20 chocolate bars a day, how would you advise them?

[Groongthep]

Take it from someone who also drank and took drugs pathologically for nearly 30 years before quitting completely. During that time and since I have seen numerous friends and acquaintances die from the same thing. It nearly killed me too. I cannot begin to tell you without taking up several pages how my life has improved since I quit.

At least your are admitting that you have a problem so you still have a chance. Denial and excuses can be your worst enemies, fight them.

Here's my advice if you want any chance of surviving your condition:

1.) Call that number ma91c1an suggested and get professional help. You are addicted to alcohol and you will die probably fairly soon if you don't quit now.

2.) Once the drinking has stopped, seek further psychological assistance for depression or any other mental disorder from an accredited professional.

3.) Disregard the posts by those who suggest you can do this on your own by volunteering, or taking up a hobby or by some other activity. That never works.

4.) Don't procrastinate. Do it today.

Good luck.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Groongthep

[Geekfreaklover]

What is SSRI 101?

If you don't feel comfortable now to stop drinking, and plan to go and seek professional help in Europe, than don't. But do as you said yourself and reduce the drinking. It will help when you are ready to seek treatment.

It's one of the new types of anti-depressents - similar to prozac.

[philo]

... and Mario is somewhat right: I have been walking in an out of hospitals for almost two years - what a waste of time and money.

Thai hospitals may help you with your prostata or hip or bruises from a motorcycle accident or ... But finding a physician that understands alchoholism or a psychiatrist that can give you more advise then : 'You must stop, do it for your children' (rings a bell - he?) is as difficult a needle in hay stack search. Mental issues don't exist in Thailand.

You tell me: Stop drinking. OK. If I don't get 3-4 cans of beer befor 7AM, I sometimes get panic attacks that borders to psychosis. My liver can wait, if you check my posting history you will see it is being taken care of.

Back on topic: SSRI 101

[Groongthep]

... and Mario is somewhat right: I have been walking in an out of hospitals for almost two years - what a waste of time and money.

Thai hospitals may help you with your prostata or hip or bruises from a motorcycle accident or ... But finding a physician that understands alchoholism or a psychiatrist that can give you more advise then : 'You must stop, do it for your children' (rings a bell - he?) is as difficult a needle in hay stack search. Mental issues don't exist in Thailand.

You tell me: Stop drinking. OK. If I don't get 3-4 cans of beer befor 7AM, I sometimes get panic attacks that borders to psychosis. My liver can wait, if you check my posting history you will see it is being taken care of.

Back on topic: SSRI 101

SSRI 101 might and alprazolam (taken in small amounts) certainly will control severe anxiety attacks. The 3-4 cans of beer before 7AM and continued drinking throughout the day will destroy your liver's ability to function properly. That will kill you. You can keep trying to convince yourself that you'll be fine but by all means get your estate in order so your kids don't suffer too much after your death.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Groongthep

[philo]

With hindsight, I realize that I already knew that this thread would be hijacked by the 'Stop drinking' well meaners.

But if you are in shit up to your nose, this is no Boy Scouts task that you can do by yourself in 72 hours.

I was hoping for something like this thread (personally I find Sheryl's post to be senseful, caring, informed and educated). I sincerly hope the man in question has started to sort out his problems, and wish him the best of luck.

Alcohol is a legal substance, so is OTC/prescribed medication. Information and discussion about this medication can only enlighten people to make better choices. But not so here.

It is not a moral issue - it is nothing to a ashamed of - it is an illness (or many).

I will do the SSRI 101 course myself. If anybody wants to discuss the drinking thing, I am always available in the 'I drink too much' forum.

Thanks to all of you.

Back to work.

[philo]

FYI: 'SSRI' (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) is the name of the medication class, '101' is the freshman's course number.

Thanks again.

[norwayeagle]

I am 52, have been self medicating on alcohol for 20-30 yaers, but it is starting to take it's toll on the brain and liver (also the autonomous nerve system; abdominal spasms).

The deterioration got really bad after I married here 4 years ago, and got even worse after having a child (now children; don't ask why).

I now live separately from my wife (which I now am really afraid of (I would rather lose my left hand than see a missed call from her) - she is a hothead and can be cruel beyond belief) and children (who I feel very sorry, guilty and ashamed towards: and worry about every second).

I am not suicidal (only insanely self destructive).

I spend most of my days in my room, and has a tuk tuk driver bringing me water, food, beer, tissue etc. and collecting laundry. Once or trice a week I venture outside. I use my time working (academically via internet), and arrange as much as can for my children (foreign citizenship, passport, social security number, bank accounts, private health insurance here, free public healthcare in my country of origin, documentation needed by my wife to apply for child and widow pension when I die, etcetera etcetara).

I do not have the energy to go and see a phsychiatrist.

I sometimes take 5 mg Diazepam (one or three a week), but it doesn't help. If I take two I get even more depressed.

A few months ago I took Lorazepam 1mg one or two times a day, but I dumped them because I read they are even more addictive.

I once was given Trazodone 50 mg (8 tablets) when I tried to stop drinking, but I never took them.

Stopping drinking is not an option now, reducing from 20 cans a day to 10 could be.

So there you are: Anyone can suggest a DIY thing that can be combined with alcohol?

Thanks

Hi.When it comes to Self Medication For Severe Depression, Anxiety And Fatigue,you can try sikhnet.com They have A lot of good videos about meditation and self control.Don't need to be a sikh or religious in anyway. Try it.Go in there and have a look!

http://www.sikhnet.com/

[Lopburi99]

...

When I have sorted out the things I need here, I will probably go back to Europe and demand to be admitted in a hospital with a psychiatric ward.

...

Philo, you are obviously a highly intelligent and well-informed individual. After reading all your posts in this thread, I believe the highlighted statement above, which you yourself stated, makes the most sense strategically.

Immediately focus on "sorting out things here". Divide and conquer. Define and categorize your issues then develop a resolution plan for only those critical. Get them minimally achieved ASAP, then without further delay get yourself to the European hospital you have in mind.

You are confronting a very serious set of issues and a clear focus and strategy to which you are committed is vital.

Stay on course and you'll be OK. Good luck.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Lopburi99

[Mobi]

Tim Armstrong, an Aussie is a qualified therapist and has connections to two residential facilities in Thailand, where they cater for expats (mainly not based in Thailand) with problems similar to your own.

I know one of these facilities is in Chiang Mai, I forget where the other one is.

I think you would find the costs reasonable, as I made inquiries a while ago for a friend of mine in BKK with very similar symptoms to you.

Tim's Thai Visa name is "tim armstrong", and I suggest you pm him to enquire for more details. Tim is a good, and very experienced professional and I believe you would benefit from chatting to him, and he may well be able to advise and help.

Tim doesn't log onto Thai Visa very often, so if you do not get a reply, PM me, and I will put you in touch by phone or email.

I am an alcoholic and also suffer from severe depression, and Tim and Sheryl have helped me a lot.

I understand Sheryl is in the USA but is due back in Bangkok any day, so please be patient for her input.

Hang in there, and as we say in AA, try to take it a day at a time.

Good luck,

Mobi

[lannarebirth]

philo,

If you are in Chiang Mai, have you contacted Dr. Christopher?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2527245

Best wishes.

[moe666]

There are no quick answers to your problems, it seems you are looking for a magic bullet. Every health care provider you see will recommend you stop drinking.

You say you will head for home after some business is rapped up in Thailand, what is more important your health or a few odds and ends you can take care of later.

No one has a magic bullet to wellness for you, it is up to you.

Been there done that.