Why Is It Called "los" And Other Newbie Questions?

[cremebrulee]

Hi

I've been pouring over the Phuket archives which have been a great resource to help plan our move but I still have a lot of questions I hope you can help me with. We (me, husband and 3.5 year old kid) have been living in Tokyo for the past 5 years and we've decided to sell everything and do a 9 month stint in Phuket and in that time try and create some sort of web based income stream that'll enable us to stay on.

Since we are coming with a child I want to be a bit more prepared so if you can help, that would be great.

1. Preschools is a big consideration. I had considered the Rawai Progressive school as it's the only one of the international schools that we could afford, but then I came across the nursery/preschools such as Cravens, Buds, Smiley Kidz which seem to be cheaper. I'd love to hear everything and anything you know about these schools. I want it to be a stable environment but I got the impression from at least one of them (sorry can't remember which) that they also accept students on a daily basis (I'm assuming kids of tourists??). Anyway, obviously I'm going to have to go and see each place with my own eyes but as a foreigner living in Japan I know the information from other foreigners can be really valuable, so I'd love to hear your advice. Is it better to stick with a school or are these nurseries/preschools ok too?

I should add that it is important that it be an English speaking environment. Right now the kid has 3 languages with smatterings of a 4th. I'd like to try and keep up his Japanese even after we move so there is no way I want to add another language beyond just the very basics - Not unless we move to Thailand more permanently.

2. Transport. Living in Tokyo we exclusively use the awesome public transport. In Australia I never used a car either and my husband has only ever used a scooter. I want to know what we should do about transport.

a. I've heard you can get motorbikes with passenger cars? Is this true? If so,what do you think about them in terms of safety?

b. Will it be too expensive to live where the action is and use taxis for all other stuff?

c. I've heard car hire is minimum 15,000 a month. Is this true?

3. Where to live? I put this one after the transport one as it's important for us to live near everything. I want to be near eating places, market or supermarket, the beach. Schools - I've read that they have school buses so not too much of a concern I think. I also want the area to be family friendly and it would be great if there were other families with young kids around.

a. I had thought Kata or Nai Harn. I'd love to hear what these places are like. Chalong seems to be near all the schools and with cheaper rent but how far would it be to get to the beaches? We're going to be on a budget but that doesn't mean we want to be stuck in the boonies with nothing to do.

b. After reading some previous posts on house break ins I am really concerned about renting a house. Seriously, I've been living in Japan where you can leave your bag at your table in the cafe, go upstairs to the loo, and come back and still find it there.

c. Soooooooo, are apartments safer than houses?

d. Are houses in gated communities the safest option of all?

e. If yes to d, will we be able to find such gated communites in Nai Harn or Kata and how much will it cost for a 2 bedroom.

f. We were hoping not to pay more than $500 a month for rent. What is my safest and best option?

4. Health insurance (buying in Phuket) or travel insurance? We have a kid so I want the best cover for anything that should arise. What do you think?

5. What would you budget for food and entertainment? I know this is a vague question so I'll try to be more specific. We will probably eat out a lot but as long as it's safe and healthy, are ok with basic Thai most of the time and with going to more moderately priced non-Thai a few times a week. Also buy ready cooked food to eat at home sometimes. I don't drink and the husband doesn't drink a lot. We'll probably want to have some nights out too but nothing too extreme. Would be nice to take the kid to the pool a few times a week (I heard if we order something at the hotels we can use their pool??), go to the cinema, fun things like water parks occasionally, go out for ice-cream, that kind of stuff.

6. Finally (though probably not), is there anything we should definitely bring with us that is either hard or expensive to get there. For example, I use Aussie toothpaste since the stuff here generally doesn't contain flouride. So anything you can think of that could come in handy for a family, let me know.

[LivinLOS]

Hmmm.. a 'web based income' to support a full family.. Interesting..

2a, you can get a sidecar welded onto a motorbike but they are illegal, as a farang and not a Thai you will probably get a lot of fines and hassles.

2b, you dont say what your budget is so expensive is hard to say.

2c, you can get a small car at the 12 - 15k range with insurance.. You get what you pay for, lower prices often uninsured and if a bike hits you its YOUR fault. Pay the extra per month to know it 100% covered.

4, Bupa family package.

5, impossible to say, you can live on a Thai diet pretty cheaply, or you can spend 10's of 1000's eating out per month. I personally am a mix, eat out maybe 50% of my meals but am quite happy eating Thai street food for a lot.

[mikebike]

Hi

2. Transport. Living in Tokyo we exclusively use the awesome public transport. In Australia I never used a car either and my husband has only ever used a scooter. I want to know what we should do about transport.

a. I've heard you can get motorbikes with passenger cars? Is this true? If so,what do you think about them in terms of safety?

b. Will it be too expensive to live where the action is and use taxis for all other stuff?

c. I've heard car hire is minimum 15,000 a month. Is this true?

3. Where to live? I put this one after the transport one as it's important for us to live near everything. I want to be near eating places, market or supermarket, the beach. Schools - I've read that they have school buses so not too much of a concern I think. I also want the area to be family friendly and it would be great if there were other families with young kids around.

a. I had thought Kata or Nai Harn. I'd love to hear what these places are like. Chalong seems to be near all the schools and with cheaper rent but how far would it be to get to the beaches? We're going to be on a budget but that doesn't mean we want to be stuck in the boonies with nothing to do.

b. After reading some previous posts on house break ins I am really concerned about renting a house. Seriously, I've been living in Japan where you can leave your bag at your table in the cafe, go upstairs to the loo, and come back and still find it there.

c. Soooooooo, are apartments safer than houses?

d. Are houses in gated communities the safest option of all?

e. If yes to d, will we be able to find such gated communites in Nai Harn or Kata and how much will it cost for a 2 bedroom.

f. We were hoping not to pay more than $500 a month for rent. What is my safest and best option?

4. Health insurance (buying in Phuket) or travel insurance? We have a kid so I want the best cover for anything that should arise. What do you think?

5. What would you budget for food and entertainment? I know this is a vague question so I'll try to be more specific. We will probably eat out a lot but as long as it's safe and healthy, are ok with basic Thai most of the time and with going to more moderately priced non-Thai a few times a week. Also buy ready cooked food to eat at home sometimes. I don't drink and the husband doesn't drink a lot. We'll probably want to have some nights out too but nothing too extreme. Would be nice to take the kid to the pool a few times a week (I heard if we order something at the hotels we can use their pool??), go to the cinema, fun things like water parks occasionally, go out for ice-cream, that kind of stuff.

6. Finally (though probably not), is there anything we should definitely bring with us that is either hard or expensive to get there. For example, I use Aussie toothpaste since the stuff here generally doesn't contain flouride. So anything you can think of that could come in handy for a family, let me know.

Hi - wow that's a lot to cover... I know nothing about pre-schools but I'll give my best responses to the rest. Remember you're gonna get as many opinions as there are people...

2a. If your budget cannot support car purchase (very affordable and reliable sedans for 100,000 - 150,000 baht) do not come. If you are a westerner considering only a motorbike w/sidecar for a family with a 3.5 year old you are making a mistake and putting your son;s life in jeopardy.

2b. You do not want to raise your child "where the action is" on Phuket.

2c. That's about right.

3a.Nai Harn/Rawai is nice and quiet - farrang community with other children would be your ideal spot.

3b,c,d,e,f. Lived in Chalong and Nai Harn for 3.5 years and never lock-up, and have never had an issue... Gated communities are good for the child but somewhat sterile. Only reason for condo over house would be ease of maintenance...

4. BUPA

5. 60,000 - 100,000 per month

6. You can get pretty much anything you need here...

Hope it helps as you amass info!!

[Peterocket]

umm...im not sure you will find a very affordable and reliable sedan for 100-150k.

You may find one for that price at a minimum but i wouldnt bet any money on it being reliable. I think 250k would be more realistic?!

everything else seems to have been answered

[LivinLOS]

Cars are finable at the 100 - 150 mark but it takes time effort and some knowledge of motors.. By 250 the buying is pretty easy.

As to 60 - 100k for a whole family, to live in a nice safe home, medical, schools, ALL eventualities !! Well 60 seems awfully tight.

[soic]

LOS.... Land of Smiles

[MisterMan]

Hi I have friends who are teachers and mothers.. and for nursury they say

ABC is the best, that is after having worked or had kids in Rawai Progressive, and Mother and CHild

abcnurseryphuket.com (you can add the www).

I am not a parent personally but I do know it is English owned and Managed and with English staff, including the owner who is onsite and her child attends as well.

[rockchick]

hi

ABC is an international nursery based in Rawai and has 2 great english teachers with a british curriculum. the kids there are from all over including thailand and the UK. their website is http://www.abcnurseryphuket.com/. there's not much else in the area for the same price and quality.

[cremebrulee]

Thanks a lot to everyone for taking the time to reply.

Land of Smiles - never heard that before but fitting.

Thanks for the info on ABCnurseryphuket. I had come across it before but completely forgotten about it. It would certainly be convenient if we live in that area.

Regarding transport - I do agree with motorbikes being too dangerous. I'm not even sure I want my husband using one. I thought I'd put it in there just in case I was being overly cautious.

I'm not so interested in buying a car because I don't think we'll be there long enough to benefit from the savings over renting, and I'd rather not deal with maintenance. Neither of us have ever owned a car so renting is a better option.

What I want to know is how essential it is to have a car. Let's say we live in Nai Harn and our child goes to preschool in Rawai. I have no idea about the distances. Is it walkable? How about bicycle? Would cycling also be too unsafe? Could we also get to supermarkets, local restaurants, etc. without a car?

Sorry if I seem repetitive - I just want to know how essential a car is, or do people do it without car/scooter.

Regarding what to rent, if I narrowed the area to Nai Harn, what could I get for $500. We only need 2 bedrooms, a condo is ok, concerned about safety so perhaps a gated community even better. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

One thing that freaked me out was the estimate for food and entertainment at 60,000 to 100,000 baht. That's a lot higher than I was expecting. We will be eating mostly Thai food (a lot of take out) and a few restaurant meals a week, moderate restaurants. Plus the kid-centered entertainment I mentioned. It seems like it'd be cheaper to hire someone to clean and cook everyday.

I want to do the entire thing (rent, food, preschool, insurance, etc) on $2000 a month. Am I dreaming?

[cremebrulee]

hi

ABC is an international nursery based in Rawai and has 2 great english teachers with a british curriculum. the kids there are from all over including thailand and the UK. there's not much else in the area for the same price and quality.

Thanks rockchick

There site doesn't list prices but would you know what they are. I was going to email them but if you already know...

[LivinginKata]

What I want to know is how essential it is to have a car. Let's say we live in Nai Harn and our child goes to preschool in Rawai. I have no idea about the distances. Is it walkable? How about bicycle? Would cycling also be too unsafe? Could we also get to supermarkets, local restaurants, etc. without a car?

One thing that freaked me out was the estimate for food and entertainment at 60,000 to 100,000 baht. That's a lot higher than I was expecting. We will be eating mostly Thai food (a lot of take out) and a few restaurant meals a week, moderate restaurants. Plus the kid-centered entertainment I mentioned. It seems like it'd be cheaper to hire someone to clean and cook everyday.

I want to do the entire thing (rent, food, preschool, insurance, etc) on $2000 a month. Am I dreaming?

You could bicycle about the Nai Harn, it's quite flat really, but too far to the nearest bigger supermarkets like Chalong Tesco Express and Villa Market and big hill from Nai Harn over to Rawai on the shortest route.

Every one has a different idea about food/entertainment budget. You can eat for a lot lot less if you are on a tighter budget.

I guess you mean $2,000 Aussie dollars ? That's about 59,000 Baht. I doubt whether you can pay rent, school, travel, insurance, eating, etc on such a low amount. Not impossible but you will will have to find a cheap rental, eat at home, be on a very tight budget. Forget about renting a car and fine dining.

[cremebrulee]

Sorry, I should have said US dollars. So about 70,000 baht give or take.

[pagallim]

My apologies in advance if my comments seem objectionable, but why? You're contemplating moving to Phuket, with a limited budget, uncertain employment/income potential, a young family etc, etc. I ask again, why? Better to return to your home country, gain steady income, save as much as possible whilst having a security net of education/health/welfare for the family around you, and if you're still keen on Thailand, try it whilst you have some form of financial safety net. The circumstances that you're describing sound like a recipe for disaster (which I sincerely hope won't happen). Life here can be very, very good, but really requires either substantial funds available and/or guaranteed income (pension/investments etc).

[Lopburi99]

LOS.... Land of Smiles

Yes, that is the official definition. However, there are others I've heard suggested:

Land of Seduction

Land of Snakes

Land of Secrecy

Land of Sinusitis

Land of Suspicion

Land of Susceptibility

and of course, Land of SinSod

Seriously though, my income is about the same. I've been here two years and I can say it would be very difficult for a family to make it on that amount upcountry, and probably impossible in Phuket where everything is far more costly. Be diligent, investigate the costs of living here thoroughly. There are many threads in ThaiVisa discussing this subject in detail, especially health insurance which is very important but not inexpensive.

In a nutshell, I agree with pagallim. You'd be better advised to accumulate more financial resources first.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Lopburi99

[steelepulse]

I'd say your budget isn't realistic if you want to have insurance, schooling for your child, a decent house to live in etc.  Seeing as you are coming from Japan, I would have thought that you have a decent amount of money saved up.  What experience and income level have you achieved from your "online work". If you haven't already made money online, don't expect to automatically jump in and make money.  Most people lose money.  Food for thought.................

[Lannatyne]

hi

ABC is an international nursery based in Rawai and has 2 great english teachers with a british curriculum. the kids there are from all over including thailand and the UK. there's not much else in the area for the same price and quality.

Thanks rockchick

There site doesn't list prices but would you know what they are. I was going to email them but if you already know...

Oh, so much to reply to, and so much already replied! I'll just say 3 things:

1) It's not CHEAP living here. If you have to penny-pinch, don't come.

2) A gated community, such as Land and Houses park in Chalong, would be better for you, no doubt. Proper roads for your child to play and ride a bike on (not the mud and gravel you often find in Rawai and Nai harn), a park, leisure centre, and lots of other families with kids.

3) Finally, the contentious one. I used Smiley-Kidz, and my daughter enjoyed it greatly. South African / Chinese managed, so English is the dominant language. I did check out ABC, and never in a million years would I have put my child there. Unless she has moved on, I realised that one of the partners also has a bar in Rawai, and I've seen her very regularly with her own kid, in the bar, at the midnight hour. No one who would do that to their own child would look after mine. As for Montessori, it's a complete shambles. However, the owners house is particularly smart and large. Tells you where the school fees go, I reckon.

[cremebrulee]

Thanks for your concern. I can see how for people living there long-term our plan might look risky but I don't think it's so bad. Maybe your concern is because I said we were going to try and work on gaining an online income (which I agree is very very difficult). I should have said we wanted to take a 6-9 month holiday in Phuket and at the same time try and do our own thing online. We have been saving, have put aside money for mortgage payments, and then with the rest we were hoping to fund ourselves for 9 months (though from the sounds of things it might be closer to 6). After that we have a place to stay in Australia until we sort out jobs and an apartment so it's not as if our lives depend on the online income. At the very least, even if we have to go back to the 9-5 grind we will have had some fun in the sun and at least tried to do our own thing.

Anyhow the information you guys have provided has been really valuable because if anything, I do understand that Phuket is not as cheap as I once thought. But from the archived posts on cost of living in Thailand there seems to be little consensus. I guess it's quite similar to expats in Japan. There are plenty that live in the most expensive gaijin ghettos, send their kids to international schools, shop in supermarkets with mostly imported goods, drive cars even though Tokyo has an incredible train and bus system, eat mostly in restaurants with English speaking waiting staff and menus and foreign cuisine.

I guess we'll try and readjust our expectations and way of life to try and take advantage of cheap local when we can, and spend more on the things we don't want to compromise on like decent preschool.

[cremebrulee]

Yeah, I think choosing a preschool is going to come down to visiting them all and then making a decision. There seems to be some pretty strong feelings on this site about the various schools.

All of the schools are businesses and will therefore be about making a profit. I just want to find one that has warm, loving staff, clean safe environment, lots of fun and stimulating things for the kids to do. I bet if you guys saw my sons daycare in Japan you'd freak out. It's basically 2 massive rooms with no outdoor area at all. That's very common in Tokyo. The teachers take the kids to the park everyday. The daycare is incredible though. Excellent food (main consisting of 2 or 3 different dishes, rice, miso soup, dessert), very loving staff who hug and show affection, good toys like wooden train sets, puzzles, leggo, arts and crafts. But anyone coming from the US or Australia where daycares are huge with outdoor areas etc. would probably think his was terrible (and they do and send them to international daycares).

Finally, re ABC, I'm not going to make any judgments until I go and see the school and meet the owners/staff. I thinks when it comes to parenting it's easy to be critical of others. There could be a reason she took her child to work (e.g. babysitter troubles), and furthermore what she does with her own kid doesn't mean that she won't run the school well. Again, I won't know which school is right for me until I check them all out.

[LivinLOS]

LOS.... Land of Smiles

Yes, that is the official definition. However, there are others I've heard suggested:

Land of Seduction

Land of Snakes

Land of Secrecy

Land of Sinusitis

Land of Suspicion

Land of Susceptibility

and of course, Land of SinSod

Land of Slimes

Land of Scams

Etc

[LivinLOS]

What I want to know is how essential it is to have a car. Let's say we live in Nai Harn and our child goes to preschool in Rawai. I have no idea about the distances. Is it walkable? How about bicycle? Would cycling also be too unsafe? Could we also get to supermarkets, local restaurants, etc. without a car?

You could get around Nai Harn Rawai perhaps.. But what about shopping runs ?? What about ever leaving the village areas (lets face it you have to sometime) ?? What about simple things (doctors / hospital / etc).. Yes you will find some single guys live here with a scooter and use tuktuks for shopping.. But your talking about a young family.. Its probably possible to live without one, but realistically what standard of living are you looking at ??

Regarding what to rent, if I narrowed the area to Nai Harn, what could I get for $500. We only need 2 bedrooms, a condo is ok, concerned about safety so perhaps a gated community even better. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

17k Baht a month.. Its possible to find a small home for that, it will not be where I would like young children living but its not the accomodation thats going to be your biggest hurdles.

One thing that freaked me out was the estimate for food and entertainment at 60,000 to 100,000 baht. That's a lot higher than I was expecting. We will be eating mostly Thai food (a lot of take out) and a few restaurant meals a week, moderate restaurants. Plus the kid-centered entertainment I mentioned. It seems like it'd be cheaper to hire someone to clean and cook everyday.

Hiring maids now ?? I think your budget is going to need lots of work (as is the idea your going to find some online activity to make the budget). I think the 60 - 100k was a total monthly budget not only entertainment and food, but as a total budget its not a generous one.. Start talking maids / nannys etc and your going to look at the 120 range a lot easier than the 60 range.

I want to do the entire thing (rent, food, preschool, insurance, etc) on $2000 a month. Am I dreaming?

Possible but tight.. In light of inflation in the last year or two I would have to say VERY tight... Add in school costs, added medical insurance costs, the things I would consider essential to keeping a family healthy and happy (a real home not a flop house, a car to safely transport a child, etc etc) your going to spend a lot of time penny pinching IMO.

Phuket is the most expensive province in the country (BKK different) you would live on a lot less in Chiang Mai and I would feel its a lot better place to bring up a child also. Have you spent much time here or is this coming after reading the brochures ??

[bubblegum]

If you look at it as a holiday (extended as it is) maybe think of 3 good months with a healthy budget instead of 9 month.

Everybody can have his or her dreams but your budget does not give you the lifestyle you're looking for.

[cremebrulee]

The maid comment was a joke based on the extremely low cost of hiring help versus the high costs quoted to me for food.

I'll say it again, the internet income is not part of the budget. It's a start-up that will hopefully give us something in the future. It's success or failure has no bearing on our saved budget - only time spent working instead of lazing on the beach.

As for my experience in Thailand, I've been there 3 times but only once to Phuket where I stayed in a nice beachfront hotel. That's why I am on this forum - to find out what people living there think.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to answer but I'm having a very hard time getting my head around the fact that the US$20,000 or so that I thought would buy us 9 months is suggested as being only enough for 3 months. That is, US$6000+ for each month. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and that amount of money would buy you a comfortable lifestyle. Am I supposed to believe that all the foreign or foreign/thai families living in Phuket are spending that kind of money?

On houseinphuket[dot]com I've seen 2 and 3 bedroom homes that look decent enough for $500 and I'm sure once I'm there I'll find good deals too. I'm looking at preschools which charge a lot less than the international schools. If anything the car is the only expense I hadn't factored in which will definitely take me above the $2000 a month mark but we can deal with that by shortening our trip. But to 3 months? That seems excessively conservative.

Anyway once we move I'll update this post on how it's going.

Cheers

[LivinLOS]

Good luck.. Phuket is not the cheap destination it appears IMO.

I try to budget on 120k a month, and often fail.. Last month lots of stuff broke (as it has a tendancy to do here) and was a 200k month, so over 5k USD.

I drive an old car, I dont go drinking nearly as much as I used to, I dont have a family or school fees, etc etc etc. I do eat well, dont watch every penny, and basically dont deny myself if I want something.

[steelepulse]

The maid comment was a joke based on the extremely low cost of hiring help versus the high costs quoted to me for food.

I'll say it again, the internet income is not part of the budget. It's a start-up that will hopefully give us something in the future. It's success or failure has no bearing on our saved budget - only time spent working instead of lazing on the beach.

As for my experience in Thailand, I've been there 3 times but only once to Phuket where I stayed in a nice beachfront hotel. That's why I am on this forum - to find out what people living there think.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to answer but I'm having a very hard time getting my head around the fact that the US$20,000 or so that I thought would buy us 9 months is suggested as being only enough for 3 months. That is, US$6000+ for each month. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and that amount of money would buy you a comfortable lifestyle. Am I supposed to believe that all the foreign or foreign/thai families living in Phuket are spending that kind of money?

On houseinphuket[dot]com I've seen 2 and 3 bedroom homes that look decent enough for $500 and I'm sure once I'm there I'll find good deals too. I'm looking at preschools which charge a lot less than the international schools. If anything the car is the only expense I hadn't factored in which will definitely take me above the $2000 a month mark but we can deal with that by shortening our trip. But to 3 months? That seems excessively conservative.

Anyway once we move I'll update this post on how it's going.

Cheers

Here's some prelim numbers to think about

Rent- 15-20K due to the fact the rental period might not be 1 year, thus a higher price to rent. Maybe even 25K

Transportation-- 5K assuming you rent a car infrequently and enjoy riding a bicycle for getting around. Keep in mind riding a bicycle is just as dangerous as a motorbike given the fact that you are invisible to people in 4 wheel vehicles.

Insurance-- 5K for low end insurance for 3 people

School-- 5K

Food and Drink-- depends on your lifestyle

Going out -- depends

Expenses you haven't thought of-- Could be big if you cause an accident to a motorbike etc., exceed your insurance payouts etc.

Utilities--- depends

Cost of getting your personal possessions from Japan to here--- 5K minimum for customs

Visa fees or visa runs?---

Household necessities---

So in theory you could live here for 9 months on 20K, but just as easily if things go south you could go through this amount in 4 months.

[LivinginKata]

LOS's 120K/month budget is more than most. Myself and wife have a modest life style, don't eat or drink out so much, own our own home (so no rent), no kids, and we budget on 60K/month just for the monthly expenses, and that does not include any travel or holidays or major expenditure.

Your 70K/budget (actually 68K for US$ 2,000) seems a bit light for your published expectations. We are not trying to frighten you, just trying to be realistic. You will 'get by' on 70K, but you will have to 'cut your cloth' to meet you planned budget.

Without a doubt you will need a car of some sort, as public transport is not really an option, a motor bike is dangerous (for a family), and a bicycle is not practical (except for exercise).

Best of luck.

[LivinLOS]

LOS's 120K/month budget is more than most. Myself and wife have a modest life style, don't eat or drink out so much, own our own home (so no rent), no kids, and we budget on 60K/month just for the monthly expenses, and that does not include any travel or holidays or major expenditure.

Does that include rent and a car or have you invested in purchasing those ?? Because at 60 plus say 15 or so rent and 15 or so car your now at 90, a figure I think is quite reasonable to live on.

I admit I probably overspend on some items, I buy the foods and wines I like, I rent a home with a pool (but that stops me going out also) I toy with hobbies like motorbikes and things, and have the odd blowout night a month. But I dont feel I am living high on the hog either, theres no late model beemer or Merc outside, I fly coach when I visa run, etc etc.

[LivinLOS]

Rent 20k

Motorbike 3k plus

Fuel for it 1k

Car 15k

Fuel for it 3k

UBC 1.5k

Internet 1k

Medical (dont know family prices) 5k ??

Schooling (not a clue) ??

Electric 2k

Water 500

So I make that 52,000 and you havent eaten a meal yet or sent the kids to school..

Say 5k a week for food / groceries / toiletries / etc shopping (presume eat at home and a family) at your now at 75k

This is before a single bottle of wine, meal in a restaurant, night out somewhere. No toys, no birthdays, no visa runs (family visa runs !! Ouch !!) no treats.. And the kids school budget still isnt met.

So 70k.. Possible but tight. Especially as you will probably make mistakes moving here.. The house needs a month down and a month upfront, etc etc etc

[LivinginKata]

LOS's 120K/month budget is more than most. Myself and wife have a modest life style, don't eat or drink out so much, own our own home (so no rent), no kids, and we budget on 60K/month just for the monthly expenses, and that does not include any travel or holidays or major expenditure.

Does that include rent and a car or have you invested in purchasing those ?? Because at 60 plus say 15 or so rent and 15 or so car your now at 90, a figure I think is quite reasonable to live on.

LOS, read my post again. I say own our home (so no rent). I consider car purchase as major expenditure. Our 60K is food/booze (mostly at home), utilities (electric/water/phone/internet/cable TV), health insurance, car insurance /fuel/service (but not repairs).

Food/booze (from supermarket) 15K

Health insurance 6K

Vehicle insurance (2 cars + 1 mobike) 5K

Vehicle fuel 4K

Electric & water 3K

Phone 1K

Internet 1K

Cable TV 2K

Eat & drink out ?? at least 10K

Cloths & toiletries 3K

That's 50K so far, so I guess we just squander that other 10K/month on non essentials....

[steelepulse]

LOS, read my post again. I say own our home (so no rent). I consider car purchase as major expenditure. Our 60K is food/booze (mostly at home), utilities (electric/water/phone/internet/cable TV), health insurance, car insurance /fuel/service (but not repairs).

Food/booze (from supermarket) 15K

Health insurance 6K

Vehicle insurance (2 cars + 1 mobike) 5K

Vehicle fuel 4K

Electric & water 3K

Phone 1K

Internet 1K

Cable TV 2K

Eat & drink out ?? at least 10K

Cloths & toiletries 3K

That's 50K so far, so I guess we just squander that other 10K/month on non essentials....

Car repairs, house repairs and cleaning supplies can easily eat up that extra 10K per month.

[LivinLOS]

Sorry I should have that "that does not include" instead of "does that include"..

The point remains tho that if someone has to rent those 2 big ticket items it makes the budget a good chunk higher.. I see 90 or 100 as a liveable amount to rent them and get by, I just see 60 or 70 to be very tight to have to meet those costs.

I hadnt even considered clothing growing children in quality clothing, etc etc etc.