Sondhi Convicted For Libel

[webfact]

Sondhi released on bail

The Criminal Court Thursday released Sondhi Limthongkul on bail pending his appealing against the conviction ruling.

Sondhi was released at 3 pm after posting assets worth Bt200,000 as guarantee.

The court earlier the day convicted Sondhi in defaming former finance minister Pridiyathorn Devakula and sentenced him to two years in jail.

-- The Nation 2009/09/10

[ThNiner]

As one poster already pointed out ..watch out at the airports in about 4 weeks.

This yellow dude smoggie and yer manToxin, in my opinion, will never do a day behind bars ..its all smokescreen BS and yes they would let this guy walk out the country too .... far from worry as far as everyone is concerned.

If it's all smokescreen BS and no one will go to jail, what do we have to watch out at the airports in 4 weeks for then?

[jayboy]

Waiting for Jayboy, the king of the "Thai Military Appointed Judiciary never punished the yellows" crew, to explain this conviction....

Clearly, as regards Sondhi and I suspect much else, neither you or TAWP has your ear very close to the ground. Most politically aware and educated Thais know the score.Plus's comment on this thread demonstrates he does - as I would have expected.

Forum rules preclude a full discussion.

[ThNiner]

Waiting for Jayboy, the king of the "Thai Military Appointed Judiciary never punished the yellows" crew, to explain this conviction....

Clearly, as regards Sondhi and I suspect much else, neither you or TAWP has your ear very close to the ground. Most politically aware and educated Thais know the score.Plus's comment on this thread demonstrates he does - as I would have expected.

Forum rules preclude a full discussion.

It always baffles me how you red folks can easily buy into some fansy conspiracy BS without any concrete evidence, but yet at the same time you can never accept any of Thaksin's wrongdoings and crimes despite how much evidence has been presented against him. Weird.

[wrecker]

Thailand is one of the very few immature countries where libel is handled through the criminal courts instead of the civil courts. It is quite absurd that any person should get jailtime for libel, it would have been nicer to see Sondhi go to work on a bicycle after paying out a huge amount. But in the end it is a matter of som nam naa. The criminal courts are ruled in general by his friends, if he had (and he has) libelled Thaksin he would have gotten away with it (see Suthep's remark about president Thaksin).

Let's hope he will do some time, lets assume in this case that it was not for libel but for the airport closure.

[MiG16]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

I think it might also be worth looking at who the libel was against

and remember, SOndhi has had other more grave libel type against him. except its not called libel. that charge was dropped even before he was sentenced.

in the interest of national harmony or something to that effect they cited

so no I wouldnt say rule of law is being applied in thailand, and that everyone is getting the same treatment. evidence suggests that SOndhi is still getting priority treatment

would be interesting to see what if anything comes of the airport closure case

[eggomaniac]

He should of been done for insurrection after the airport damage.

and he should be done for the billions$$$ he got away with.

check out Wikipedia's article on Sondhi >>>

Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy^{#cite_note-18}>>>

After the election of Thaksin Shinawatra as Prime Minister in 2001, Manager Daily lauded Thaksin's leadership, calling him Thailand's best prime minister ever. Somkid Jatusripitak, co-founder of the Manager Media Group and writer of a column for Manager Daily became Thaksin's commerce and finance minister[5]. Pansak Vinyaratan, previously editor of the now defunct Sondhi-owned Asia Times, became Thaksin's chief policy adviser.>>>

Origins of the Anti-Thaksin PeriodIn 2004, state-owned Krung Thai Bank (KTB) shocked Thailand's financial world by reclassifying approximately Bt40 billion as problem loans. It was rumored that M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula, the Bank of Thailand's governor, would fire KTB CEO Viroj Nualkhair if he did not resign voluntarily. Viroj Nualkhair was Sondhi's former financial advisor, having helped him IPO one of his first companies.^[22] As Krung Thai Bank's CEO, Viroj had forgiven Sondhi's debts by Bt1.6 billion and arranged for further rounds of forgiveness. Using all of his media outlets, Sondhi furiously attacked Pridiyathorn and defended Viroj. However, Viroj was eventually forced to leave Krung Thai Bank. Sondhi's public criticism of Thaksin increased.

[Changian]

Looks like Sondhi learned that you dont mess with a guy who's great grandfather was the top man in Thailand. But they have some history with disputes between the two of them.

In 2004, when he was Financee Minister, Pridyathorn fired the boss of Krung Thai Bank, Viroj Nualkhair. Viroj looked after his friends. Before he ran KTB, Viroj was the Financial Advisor to Sondhi L. When he became boss of the bank, he then wrote off about 1.6 billion baht in debts which were owned to the bank by Sondhi.

So you can see why there might be some friction and why they wont be on each others Christmas card lists

[clausewitz]

I think the guy is a looney toon (hope that is not libel)

Bangkok's Bizarre Power Struggle

Newsweek By Jamie Seaton and George Wehrfritz

Many Thais believe that a 100-year-old bronze likeness of King Rama V located in downtown Bangkok emits powerful magic. That is why, fully a century after it was cast in Paris, the likeness has become the object of struggle between top government leaders and a band of rightists seeking to oust them. A few weeks ago, anti-government agitator Sondhi Limthongkul, whose People's Alliance for Democracy has occupied key official buildings for four months in an effort to topple a government he considers illegitimate, accused his opponents of employing wizardry to channel the statue's protective forces their way. And to reverse that alleged sorcery, he deployed his own mystics to encircle the statue with used sanitary napkins (collected from the PAD's rank-and-file) to form a shield of menstrual blood.

A month later, unidentified vandals smashed numerous statues at Phanom Rung, one of the shrines he visited, purportedly to nullify Thaksin's powers. Sondhi frequently denounces one of Thaksin's allies as a "Khmer wizard" and was caught on video recently clad in priestly white robes as he sprinkled holy water at a government complex occupied by PAD demonstrators and called on Thais to resist "evil magic."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/05...cs_30090273.php

BURNING ISSUE

Is Sondhi's PAD now a brainwashed political cult?

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

So the prophet said it over the weekend: "If by dying the country will improve, let death visit us today. It's better than being alive otherwise".

These Davidian-like words were from no other than the supreme prophet, Sondhi Limthongkul, leader of the self-styled anti-Thaksin and anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy on Saturday, as he anticipated a possible clash with the police as the government tried to re-capture Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport, invaded and occupied by the protesters.

Today the PAD movement resembles a political cult. Sondhi himself was a former cheerleader of Thaksin Shinawatra but is now a repentant man on a mission to eradicate Thaksin and his proxy from power. This gives him an almost messianic aura and mission. These prophets also promote the worshipping of the Thai monarchy institution. Everyone was encouraged to wear yellow, symbolising the present King. But whether people like Sondhi are true royalists is debatable. The media's inability to discuss the role of the Thai monarchy due to censorship laws and culture has hampered the analysis and understanding of the current political crisis, to say the least.

As for Thaksin. PAD followers do not just hate his actions but deeply abhor the man, his cronies and proxies including Somchai Wongsawat. Thaksin to them is like Satan, and must be destroyed.

It's thus a zero-sum game in their view and no price is too high. Never mind the Thai economy is now reeling from the shutting down of two airports, their prophet claims they would rather die than allow the current regime and Thaksin to cling to power.

After months of mutual brainwashing, and with the majority of Thai mainstream media nurturing and uncritically psupporting them, these people no longer dwell in rationality, law and responsibility. By now, the PAD has grown into a self-righteous semi-fascist monster propelled by its own intolerant political cult willing to ruin Thailand in order to achieve its elusive political "salvation".

[exalll]

Sondhi took control of an airport either by directive to others or directly using his power base. That in any world is a terrorist act.

What a ridiculous comment. A terrorist act is an act designed to spread terror. Did a bunch of people sitting at the airport fill you with terror? If so, I suggest you need help.

[hansnl]

Hmmmmm

Two years for Mr S.

Two years for Mr T.

I guess one of the two gets too much, the other not enough.

But who am I?

[KBTexas]

Thai politicians might even start thinking about what to say before opening their mouth. ;-P

Ummm, that would lead to quite the conundrum of what to call them then. I think the very definition of politician is 'one who works in government and does not think about the things they say or do'. And I am not just talking about Thai politicians.

[caf]

The use of criminal defamation laws can be regarded a criminal offence against freedom of expression in and of itself. Unfortunately, criminal defamation laws also still exist in 17 states of the US and are being actively used there in respect of alleged Internet offences. The Uk's criminal defamation and sedition laws are still on the statute books too, although I think it is nearly 100 years since a prison sentence has been handed down for the offence there. Edward VII, as crown prince, set an example in the UK with his famous "publish and be damned" comment indicating that he would ignore lurid newspaper stories about his rakish lifestyle and would not file libel charges against newspapers or writers. Ghana is ahead of the US, UK and Thailand, having abolished its criminal and sedition laws in 2001. Nothing will change in Thailand for the foreseeable future because politicians like these laws (never expecting to fall victim themselves, even though many do) and this issue impinges on related parts of the Penal Code where reform is not up for discussion.

I believe it was the Duke of Wellington who said "publish and be damned". I can't see where Edward VII ever said it but if he had said it as king he could not prosecute in his own courts anyway. He conceivably could have prosecuted as Prince of Wales ( the uk has no crown prince) but unlikely. The Royal family tend to ignore and never comment.

Sonthi is out on bail as I understand it and is appealing.

In a few weeks time no-one will know whether he is in jail or not. I suspect this is just words.

[eggomaniac]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

I think it might also be worth looking at who the libel was against

and remember, SOndhi has had other more grave libel type against him.

Do you mean this? He did kick the wrong toes!>>>

Wikipedia >>> "Allegations against the Sarasin family On 27 April 2007, Sondhi claimed on his "Yam Fao Phaendin" (Guard of the Land) TV program that an amendment to the anti-corruption law passed by the National Legislative Assembly had been "stuck" for a month after being submitted for royal endorsement, and suggested the "delay" could be due to family ties between Arsa Sarasin (King Bhumibol's Principal Private Secretary) and Pong Sarasin (his eldest brother, a major shareholder in a company that Sondhi accused of acting as a nominee in the sale of Shin Corporation to Temasek Holdings).The Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary said in a public statement that Arsa had "has no connections whatsoever" with the issue, and that Sondhi made "incorrect allegations" against the royal secretary. "Sondhi's statement indicated that he failed to double-check the facts and had intended to frame and cause damage to Arsa Sarasin and the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary," said a letter sent to Sondhi.^[49]

Sondhi issued an apology a few days later, but also publicly warned Arsa that he had no right to use the office of the King's Principal Private Secretary to defend himself in a personal matter. He then accused the King's Principal Private Secretary of speaking with the Attorney General and the Police Commander in order to get charges of lese majeste against Thaksin Shinawatra dropped.

<<< It appears that was a case of Group 2 lese majeste. [[[The second group is insult or defamation against state officials or the Court. Insulting officials (Section 136) carries a penalty of imprisonment for up to one year or a fine of up to 20,000 baht, or both. Insulting the Court or the judge (Section 198) presiding over a case carries a penalty of imprisonment for four to seven years, or a fine of 2,000 to 14,000 baht, or both.]]]]

Sondhi was also taken off the 'air' in 2005 for inappropriate references to the monarchy.

[TAWP]

Waiting for Jayboy, the king of the "Thai Military Appointed Judiciary never punished the yellows" crew, to explain this conviction....

Clearly, as regards Sondhi and I suspect much else, neither you or TAWP has your ear very close to the ground. Most politically aware and educated Thais know the score.Plus's comment on this thread demonstrates he does - as I would have expected.

Forum rules preclude a full discussion.

You fail again, as my comment was 1) said in jest 2) point out a verdict, not incase someone would actually be serving it.

But ofcourse your aim was to throw mud, not to bring facts to the table.

[henryalleman]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

I fully agree!

That case is still pending.

[sjaak327]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

Exactly right, he should be held accountable for his actions, being sentenced for libel is ridiculous.

[nurgut73]

red. yellow, blue, purple with dots or green with stripes, if they do wrong lock them up!

[paulfr]

Free speech in Thailand ....... maybe in 50 years ?

If your words or pen damage someone with information that you can not prove to be true, then you should be held to reimburse them for their losses.

But to make it a crime [punishable with a prison sentance] is barbaric, especially if the guilty party has means to restore the injured.

Speaking the truth is not acceptable in Thailand I assume to maintain harmony.

For truth NOT to be a defense carries a heavy cost that may very well outweigh harmony.

Amartya Sen, the Nobel Economist has said that ...

"There is no poverty wherever there is free speech"

You can infer the historical inevitability.

Edited September 10, 2009 by paulfr

[SiriusBlack1]

It is absolutely bizarre that libel should be treated as a criminal, not civil, offense.

Is this common in backward third-world emerging countries?

Edited September 10, 2009 by SiriusBlack1

[Thai at Heart]

Sondhi released on bail

The Criminal Court Thursday released Sondhi Limthongkul on bail pending his appealing against the conviction ruling.

Sondhi was released at 3 pm after posting assets worth Bt200,000 as guarantee.

The court earlier the day convicted Sondhi in defaming former finance minister Pridiyathorn Devakula and sentenced him to two years in jail.

-- The Nation 2009/09/10

Now the most obvious question is "Did they take his passport?"

[Acharn]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

2) is still "under consideration" by the Public Prosecutor. Apparently they are not sure they have sufficient evidence that a crime was committed (that means: PAD still has too much political clout to be offended). I don't recall if the cases against the Red Shirts have been submitted to the courts yet.

[Acharn]

It is absolutely bizarre that libel should be treated as a criminal, not civil, offense.

Is this common in backward third-world emerging countries?

Yes. See Malaysia and Singapore.

[Acharn]

The use of criminal defamation laws can be regarded a criminal offence against freedom of expression in and of itself. Unfortunately, criminal defamation laws also still exist in 17 states of the US and are being actively used there in respect of alleged Internet offences. The Uk's criminal defamation and sedition laws are still on the statute books too, although I think it is nearly 100 years since a prison sentence has been handed down for the offence there. Edward VII, as crown prince, set an example in the UK with his famous "publish and be damned" comment indicating that he would ignore lurid newspaper stories about his rakish lifestyle and would not file libel charges against newspapers or writers. Ghana is ahead of the US, UK and Thailand, having abolished its criminal and sedition laws in 2001. Nothing will change in Thailand for the foreseeable future because politicians like these laws (never expecting to fall victim themselves, even though many do) and this issue impinges on related parts of the Penal Code where reform is not up for discussion.

Errmmm... I thought that was the Duke of Wellington who said that in reply to the lady who was supposedly preparing to publish her racy memoirs.

[Acharn]

<snip quoted material>

It always baffles me how you red folks can easily buy into some fansy conspiracy BS without any concrete evidence, but yet at the same time you can never accept any of Thaksin's wrongdoings and crimes despite how much evidence has been presented against him. Weird.

It's simple. Thaksin's case has nothing to do with this case. Why should we comment on it? Anyway, PADists like yourself make sure it's brought up.

[wensiensheng]

Free speech in Thailand ....... maybe in 50 years ?

If your words or pen damage someone with information that you can not prove to be true, then you should be held to reimburse them for their losses.

But to make it a crime [punishable with a prison sentance] is barbaric, especially if the guilty party has means to restore the injured.

Speaking the truth is not acceptable in Thailand I assume to maintain harmony.

For truth NOT to be a defense carries a heavy cost that may very well outweigh harmony.

Amartya Sen, the Nobel Economist has said that ...

"There is no poverty wherever there is free speech"

You can infer the historical inevitability.

It would be better if libel were a civil rather than criminal offence. But in Thailand it is not the case. For so long as it IS a criminal offence, all have to abide by the law as it exists....and bear the consquences if found guilty of breaking it. Sorry, but that is all there is to be said.

Having said that all should abide by the law as it exists now, we all know Mr S will not serve any jail time, whether his appeal is successful or not.

[Garret]

Yellows, Blues and Reds....put em all in the pokey and clear the way for the return of absolute Monarchy

[BlackJack]

I thought the rule of Law was that the libeled was responsible for proving that the libeler was at fault?

Was this the case or was the libeler responsible for proving he was not at fault.

Maybe it works different in LOS

[reallyok]

made some accusations,... go to jail !

messed up the country.... mai pen rai.

sabotaged the airport.........mai pen rai.

[Thai at Heart]

I thought the rule of Law was that the libeled was responsible for proving that the libeler was at fault?

Was this the case or was the libeler responsible for proving he was not at fault.

Maybe it works different in LOS

The obligation of proof lies with the libelled as far as I know.

Pridayathorn wouldn't have had to get his lawyer to do so much research. The statements were out there in the public domain for all to see.

The law is very bizarre however, in that all he has to prove is that he suffered some loss, the fact that it may or may not have been true is irrelevant.

Sort of makes speaking the awful truth about anyone a criminal offence. Essentially, gossiping about your neighbour in Thailand, even though it may be true, would constitute criminal libel.