Don't Impose Isa, Pheu Thai Warns

[webfact]

Don't impose ISA, Pheu Thai warns

By The Nation

Published on September 14, 2009

The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday warned the government against imposing the Internal Security Act, saying confrontation between the military and anti-government protesters would be inevitable if the military is drawn in to control mobs.

Pheu Thai Party spokesman Prompong Nopparit said the government was likely to invoke the ISC in anticipation of a protest by the red shirts who plan a symbolic protest on the third anniversary of the September 19 coup, outside the Si Sao residence of Privy Council Chief General Prem Tinsulanonda, and at the Royal Plaza.

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law, saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos and the military seize the opportunity to overthrow the Abhisit government.

"We have heard hardcore protesters from the provinces are preparing to stage their move and if a third party interferes in the protest and the government cannot control the situation, Abhisit might face the same fate as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who went for a meeting in the US and never had the chance to return,'' Prompong said.

Democrat Party spokesman Dr Buranaj Smutharaks however called on the government to impose the ISC to prevent a repeat of the Songkran riots and the Pattaya chaos.

The Democrat Party has analysed the political situation and come up with three possible scenarios for September 19, so the government can get ready to deal with each incident.

First, chaos triggered by a small group of people with security officials resorting to drastic action to control them. Second, the red shirts use propaganda to create division among Thais and incite mass protests, leading to confrontation and violence. Third, Thaksin supporters and the Pheu Thai Party resort to any means to provoke a military coup and civil chaos.

Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda has voiced concern over the readiness of security officials in handling the protest by the red shirts after the abrupt resignation of Pol General Patcharawat Wongsuwan as national police chief.

"I believe we are likely to stick with the same plan and it will depend on the police and its new chief on how to control the situation. The military will play only an assisting role, unless the government invokes the ISC,'' he said.

Anupong said he would know if the government planned to invoke the ISC or not when the Cabinet meets tomorrow.

Army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the military was not concerned about the red shirts, but the threat of interference by the third party had caused intelligence officials to work hard to get an insight into what was going to happen. About 33 companies of military officials will assist police in the security mission.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

[animatic]

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law,

saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos and the military seize the opportunity to overthrow the Abhisit government.

"We have heard hardcore protesters from the provinces are preparing to stage their move

and if a third party interferes in the protest and the government cannot control the situation,

Abhisit might face the same fate as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who went for a meeting in the US

and never had the chance to return,'' Prompong said.

Ah yes right on cue;

Try and instigate the government to be ill prepared.

Oh no! Not the ISA, then the ARMY will be out,

they will kill us and hide the bodies. Oh woe, oh woe!

Try and push the blame to unknown 'others' BEFORE anything really happens.

Wasn't US... it was ... name laundry list of enemies.

And then make a threat of the worst case scenario.

Of course Thaksin DID return and had freedom of movement,

until he decided to abscond after visiting the Olympics

The only side that can clearly gain from a riot,

and assorted military units wandering Bangkok in "the fog of war"

is Thaksin, and his long term Army seedlings hoping for a counter coup.

All of the 'ill intentioned' are not necessarily inside the Reds,

but no doubt there ARE more than enough INSIDE the Reds.

And who has hardcore protesters from the provinces these days... Oh yeah Red Shirts.

[caf]

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law,

saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos and the military seize the opportunity to overthrow the Abhisit government.

"We have heard hardcore protesters from the provinces are preparing to stage their move

and if a third party interferes in the protest and the government cannot control the situation,

Abhisit might face the same fate as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who went for a meeting in the US

and never had the chance to return,'' Prompong said.

Ah yes right on cue;

Try and instigate the government to be ill prepared.

Oh no! Not the ISA, then the ARMY will be out,

they will kill us and hide the bodies. Oh woe, oh woe!

Try and push the blame to unknown 'others' BEFORE anything really happens.

Wasn't US... it was ... name laundry list of enemies.

And then make a threat of the worst case scenario.

Of course Thaksin DID return and had freedom of movement,

until he decided to abscond after visiting the Olympics

The only side that can clearly gain from a riot,

and assorted military units wandering Bangkok in "the fog of war"

is Thaksin, and his long term Army seedlings hoping for a counter coup.

All of the 'ill intentioned' are not necessarily inside the Reds,

but no doubt there ARE more than enough INSIDE the Reds.

And who has hardcore protesters from the provinces these days... Oh yeah Red Shirts.

I don't quite follow your reply. Can you simplify

[RKASA]

If the Reds are the cause of chaos or duped into chaos it won't make a difference in the end.  In the end, the result is bad for them and Thailand.  

The ISA will be called and if they are smart the rally would be canceled.  Better to set home and cry repression then get blamed for anything that may happen at fault or not.   

The opportunity for provocation from ether side is high given the current feelings in the nation and the ISA is a prudent move by any government if it has it to use. It would be regretted had it not been called and problems do happen.  CYA is the name of the game here.  

The PAD and Sondhi are no less a problem then the wayward leadership of the Reds and have been whipping up nationalism and red hysteria for a propose.  You can be sure their own hard core will be out there looking for trouble.  This is a better reason then even the ISA to cancel the rally.

Placing blame before hand is running overtime on both sides and is normally the case just before the excrement hits the fan.   

In tech circles its called FUD and all sides play it to the hilt without shame. 

Requisite disclaimer: This posting should not to be construed as support of any side as is often automatically assumed by some of the more radical from ether.  Even if it fails your test of being filled with mess condemnation and innuendo of your foe, its just because its an observation, some people have them and they can be shocking.  

[Jingthing]

A red shirt force with a RECENT history of anarchic violence kindly requests that there be no government authority forces in place to resist them. Dream on!

Edited September 14, 2009 by Jingthing

[Plus]

The ISA will be invoked to contain violence, the demo can go ahead without hindrance.

Abhisit might need ISA to call on the army to provide security, if he can't trust the police. Acting police chief promised to keep it under control, however.

Let's see what the cabinet decides tomorrow.

[Scott]

I believe the ISA also protects all those military and others from recriminations through the Courts.

[Ricardo]

The PAD and Sondhi are no less a problem then the wayward leadership of the Reds and have been whipping up nationalism and red hysteria for a propose.  You can be sure their own hard core will be out there looking for trouble.  This is a better reason then even the ISA to cancel the rally.

I wasn't aware that Sondhi had made any statement on the upcoming rally yet, although there was a recent warning from one of the PAD-leaders, that he feared the red-shirts might try to stage more than just a legal peaceful protest.

Do you have a source for your claim that Sondhi has been "whipping up nationalism and red hysteria" ?

[Samuian]

I believe the ISA also protects all those military and others from recriminations through the Courts.

Yes, Sir, but this is the "last item" on the list of preventive measures theISA stands for!

General Chaiyasit Shinawatra openly supports a coup - isn't this enough to arrest him for

(attempted) Treason?

If I had to steer this ship whilst being outside the country, with a return ratio of more then 12 hrs.

facing these possible projections and threads, I would implement the ISA, for the safety of

the country's citizen, especially of those Bangkok citizens, to keep up law and order and for the peace

of the country!

[thaijasmine]

A red shirt force with a RECENT history of anarchic violence kindly requests that there be no government authority forces in place to resist them. Dream on!

You have the same myopic view of the redshirts as you do with Obama saving USA from the

depression ( NOT ! )

Please explain how the occupation of the international airport is any less anarchic

than the action of the redshirts

[Wolfie]

The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday warned the government against imposing the Internal Security Act, saying confrontation between the military and anti-government protesters would be inevitable if the military is drawn in to control mobs.

So they are basically saying they are gunning for a fight, and that if the ISA is enacted and the Military is put in control of the crowds, the Reds will kick off and there will be 'confrontation' ?

Sounds to me like a threat.

[Jingthing]

TJ, we are talking about the political situation TODAY, not the past. It is not the yellows who are having a big "rally" on the 19th, so your question is irrelevant. As is US politics in this thread. Cheers.

[RickBradford]

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law, saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos

Well, he should know about ill-intentioned groups, I guess he's issuing a threat on their behalf.....

[givenall]

I believe the ISA also protects all those military and others from recriminations through the Courts.

i will repat myself again:

The new technology has made it easy to communicate and that is probably a good thing, but also made it easy for any dog to bark.

All this baseless treat are nonsense and the government need to do their job and keep the country safe from all the hoodlums and impose any mean i.e ISA which I think is a very good tool.

[Samuian]

The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday warned the government against imposing the Internal Security Act, saying confrontation between the military and anti-government protesters would be inevitable if the military is drawn in to control mobs.

So they are basically saying they are gunning for a fight, and that if the ISA is enacted and the Military is put in control of the crowds, the Reds will kick off and there will be 'confrontation' ?

Sounds to me like a threat.

....looks like the treats keep on comin' like pearls on a string....

This, he won't stop, unless it is stopped...

[givenall]

The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday warned the government against imposing the Internal Security Act, saying confrontation between the military and anti-government protesters would be inevitable if the military is drawn in to control mobs.

So they are basically saying they are gunning for a fight, and that if the ISA is enacted and the Military is put in control of the crowds, the Reds will kick off and there will be 'confrontation' ?

Sounds to me like a threat.

....looks like the treats keep on comin' like pearls on a string....

This, he won't stop, unless it is stopped...

I am sure will be sooner than later

[animatic]

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law,

saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos and the military seize the opportunity to overthrow the Abhisit government.

"We have heard hardcore protesters from the provinces are preparing to stage their move

and if a third party interferes in the protest and the government cannot control the situation,

Abhisit might face the same fate as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who went for a meeting in the US

and never had the chance to return,'' Prompong said.

Ah yes right on cue;

As predictable they would be.

Action:

Try and instigate the government to be ill prepared.

Political backstory

Oh no! Not the ISA, then the ARMY will be out, they will kill us and hide the bodies. Oh woe, oh woe!

Action:

Try and push the blame to unknown 'others' BEFORE anything really happens.

Political backstory

Wasn't US... it was ... name laundry list of enemies.

Action:

And then make a threat of the worst case scenario.

IE Abhist being overthrown in a coup.

Political backstory

Of course Thaksin DID return and had freedom of movement,

until he decided to abscond after visiting the Olympics

The only side that can clearly gain from a riot, is Thaksin,

and assorted military units loyal to him, his long term Army

seedlings hoping for a counter coup, wandering Bangkok in "the fog of war"

He has been salting the military with his cronies, and if the army comes out

and can't tell which unit is friend of foe, then Thaksin's plants could gain a foot hold.

Or stage a massacre and blame the rest of the army...

Not Third parties, third hands, alternate elites etc.

All of the 'ill intentioned' are not necessarily inside the Reds,

but no doubt there ARE more than enough INSIDE the Reds.

Sure there is a power struggle, but how benefits from a coup springing from a riot?

And who has hardcore protesters from the provinces these days...

Oh yeah Red Shirts.

I don't quite follow your reply. Can you simplify

I wish it were simple actually.

I was dissecting his speech / warning and what the subtext of the sentences likely means.

Edited September 14, 2009 by animatic

[Publicus]

The PAD and Sondhi are no less a problem then the wayward leadership of the Reds and have been whipping up nationalism and red hysteria for a propose. You can be sure their own hard core will be out there looking for trouble. This is a better reason then even the ISA to cancel the rally.

I wasn't aware that Sondhi had made any statement on the upcoming rally yet, although there was a recent warning from one of the PAD-leaders, that he feared the red-shirts might try to stage more than just a legal peaceful protest.

Do you have a source for your claim that Sondhi has been "whipping up nationalism and red hysteria" ?

Here it goes again with arbitrary and summary demands of sources. As is the norm, forumists typically state a perception based in the reasonable interpretation of the forumist's observations and analysis. The deductions, inductions and conclusions of one forumist are essentially as worthy of consideration as those of any other. Meanwhile we are all fair game.

However, a forum post is not a legal brief nor is it a doctoral dissertation. We needn't provide evidence, proof, documentation, citations, SOURCES, references etc ad infinitum and ad absurdum. I hope I needn't go to a dictionary as we are adults and have a clear idea and practice in the forum mode of communication, dialog and intercourse.

Nor are forumists here to answer to the whimsical demands of others.

[animatic]

I believe the ISA also protects all those military and others from recriminations through the Courts.

Of course the Red Shirts have been looking to BLAME the ARMY for EVERYTHING,

so this can be a way the Reds can't win that blame game.

[animatic]

The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday warned the government against imposing the Internal Security Act, saying confrontation between the military and anti-government protesters would be inevitable if the military is drawn in to control mobs.

So they are basically saying they are gunning for a fight, and that if the ISA is enacted and the Military is put in control of the crowds, the Reds will kick off and there will be 'confrontation' ?

Sounds to me like a threat.

It is a threat attempting to add the implication that it will be the army's fault,

not the reds if a riot ensues.

Just blame shifting while making a threat of violence,

all in one sentence...

psychotically succinct, in a weird sort of way.

Edited September 14, 2009 by animatic

[Publicus]

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law,

saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos and the military seize the opportunity to overthrow the Abhisit government.

"We have heard hardcore protesters from the provinces are preparing to stage their move

and if a third party interferes in the protest and the government cannot control the situation,

Abhisit might face the same fate as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who went for a meeting in the US

and never had the chance to return,'' Prompong said.

Ah yes right on cue;

As predictable they would be.

Action:

Try and instigate the government to be ill prepared.

Political backstory

Oh no! Not the ISA, then the ARMY will be out, they will kill us and hide the bodies. Oh woe, oh woe!

Action:

Try and push the blame to unknown 'others' BEFORE anything really happens.

Political backstory

Wasn't US... it was ... name laundry list of enemies.

Action:

And then make a threat of the worst case scenario.

IE Abhist being overthrown in a coup.

Political backstory

Of course Thaksin DID return and had freedom of movement,

until he decided to abscond after visiting the Olympics

The only side that can clearly gain from a riot, is Thaksin,

and assorted military units loyal to him, his long term Army

seedlings hoping for a counter coup, wandering Bangkok in "the fog of war"

He has been salting the military with his cronies, and if the army comes out

and can't tell which unit is friend of foe, then Thaksin's plants could gain a foot hold.

Or stage a massacre and blame the rest of the army...

Not Third parties, third hands, alternate elites etc.

All of the 'ill intentioned' are not necessarily inside the Reds,

but no doubt there ARE more than enough INSIDE the Reds.

Sure there is a power struggle, but how benefits from a coup springing from a riot?

And who has hardcore protesters from the provinces these days...

Oh yeah Red Shirts.

I don't quite follow your reply. Can you simplify

I wish it were simple actually.

I was dissecting his speech / warning and what the subtext of the sentences likely means.

A pain indeed but I'm afraid you're going to have to spell it out. Youknow, h-a-r-d-c-o-r-e etc.

[Chunkton]

Prompong urged the government to weigh the pros and cons of imposing the law,

saying ill-intentioned groups might create chaos and the military seize the opportunity to overthrow the Abhisit government.

"We have heard hardcore protesters from the provinces are preparing to stage their move

and if a third party interferes in the protest and the government cannot control the situation,

Abhisit might face the same fate as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who went for a meeting in the US

and never had the chance to return,'' Prompong said.

Ah yes right on cue;

Try and instigate the government to be ill prepared.

Oh no! Not the ISA, then the ARMY will be out,

they will kill us and hide the bodies. Oh woe, oh woe!

Try and push the blame to unknown 'others' BEFORE anything really happens.

Wasn't US... it was ... name laundry list of enemies.

And then make a threat of the worst case scenario.

Of course Thaksin DID return and had freedom of movement,

until he decided to abscond after visiting the Olympics

The only side that can clearly gain from a riot,

and assorted military units wandering Bangkok in "the fog of war"

is Thaksin, and his long term Army seedlings hoping for a counter coup.

All of the 'ill intentioned' are not necessarily inside the Reds,

but no doubt there ARE more than enough INSIDE the Reds.

And who has hardcore protesters from the provinces these days... Oh yeah Red Shirts.

<snip>

Edited September 14, 2009 by webfact
Flame deleted. If repeated a warning will be given //WF

[Thai at Heart]

I believe the ISA also protects all those military and others from recriminations through the Courts.

Of course the Red Shirts have been looking to BLAME the ARMY for EVERYTHING,

so this can be a way the Reds can't win that blame game.

Hey, the army's desire to hold the odd coup or two over the last 70 something years makes them fair game. Run around town with you M16's and the odd tank, you are fair game.

If they can't stand the heat they should stay out of the kitchen, and I hope they don't get further than the outhouse for a long time to come.

[animatic]

And if the Police can't keep order what do you suggest?

Let the kitchen burn down?

The ISA doesn't require the army to act,

it just enables them to do it quickly if needed.

The army is well aware they don't want to run a government again.

But that doesn't mean th Reds don't want to have a go at them...

hoping to inflame the rest of the country.

But they did a very workman like and delicate job at Songkran,

and could have taken over then, but didn't,

and gave the legislative and executive back in under 5 months,

not like past coups... it's a different world than the 80's or 90's

Edited September 14, 2009 by animatic

[mc2]

All you ISA lovers should go live in Burma. you would feel more at home.

the people have a right to protest peacefully.

[TAWP]

All you ISA lovers should go live in Burma. you would feel more at home.

the people have a right to protest peacefully.

They still do.

But don't let facts get in your way.

Again.

[Jingthing]

All you ISA lovers should go live in Burma. you would feel more at home.

the people have a right to protest peacefully.

We all agree. PEACEFULLY. Got it, now?

ISA does not prevent that.

It would not be in force except for the violence shown by the redheads during Black Songkran and beyond. Thaksin is clearly plotting a violent revolution. I know you would like the government to just bend over. Why should they?

Edited September 14, 2009 by Jingthing

[Thai at Heart]

Sensibly take on the situation and why this ISA is so dangerous.

http://bangkokpost.net/opinion/opinion/238...aw-must-prevail

[webfact]

Cabinet to invoke ISA Tuesday

The Cabinet will Tuesday invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) in preparation for the planned rally by the red shirts on Saturday to mark the 2006 coup's third anniversary, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday.

He said the Cabinet would decide about the time and place for the law to be enforced.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

[Thai at Heart]

Cabinet to invoke ISA Tuesday

The Cabinet will Tuesday invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) in preparation for the planned rally by the red shirts on Saturday to mark the 2006 coup's third anniversary, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday.

He said the Cabinet would decide about the time and place for the law to be enforced.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

Off we go again.

A supposedly democratically supported government invoking a law that essentially suspends laws before any laws have been broken. A wonderful contradiction.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Thai at Heart