Pad Rally To Demand Govt Rid Disputed Territory Near Temple Of Cambodians

[Chunkton]

Apparantly Channel 3 says there was one villager shot and was seriously injured. Good to see our old mates the PAD back killing and maiming again, never a dull moment with their brand of thuggish nationalism. Reds often little better but not as bad as that lot.

[TAWP]

Sorry TAWP. I forgot to take my fair and balanced pill this morning!

The prescription has been refilled and I think I am back on track!

The comment about taking over a country was presumably made ironically, given that the earlier part of your post was bang on the money and certainly perfectly fair comment.

Since there is nothing to propose that taking over the government house was in any way 'approved' by the military or police, it was not at all a 'perfectly fair' comment.

Or name whoever approved it.

[Plus]

Locals apparently barricaded the road and stopped the buses PAD was using to go to the temple. PAD got off and fought its way through.

I don't support this latest move to KPV, but I don't think it was PAD who were started the fight, at least as it's reported in the Nation.

The temple is unnecessary diversion for PAD, they should stick to anti- Thaksin agenda. The only good that might come out of it is that Thais in general would try to seriously think about what to do with KPV and surrounding areas.

Cambodians should remove their people, that's a reasonable demand.

The way I see it is that Thais, being friendly neighbors, allowed them to settle there and even erect a Buddhist shrine, but now it's gone to far - the land is in dispute, they are squatters, basically, and their government is threatening to shoot any Thai who approaches there. What gives them right? They are taking advantage of "inhumane Thai military" that doesn't shoot Cambodians living there.

And now some Thais are pissed off and PAD is taking them to the border. Si Sa Ket people shouldn't have try to stop and engage them, it just complicates a fairly simple demand.

[TAWP]

Certainly going to make Saturday an interesting day - red shirts trying to take over Thailand, yellow shirts invading Cambodia. I wonder what the blue shirts have planned else they will feel left out!

The moon?

I propose we put them [all 3 groups] on a space-shuttle and send them there. Just say that the moon-rocks will help them predict the next winning lottery numbers...

Edited September 19, 2009 by TAWP

[Scott]

Yes, I was being facetious about the PAD taking over another country.

I have my opinions about what has happened, but they are only that and not necessarily based on anything particularly knowledgeable on the issue.

[dumball]

I think it just goes to show the stupidity of PAD when its members injure other Thai to flex their muscles going on a mission to demomstrate what ? Nothing will be gained by this moronic attitude by a group who are becoming more militant as time goes by , they have the Thai troops and police in place to squash this stupity and set an example to possible further attempts to do the same by arresting them and taking positive action . Martial law has been declared around the temple , so all is in readiness to do just that or once again prove the incompetance by the powers that be to do their job i.e. keep the reace .

[Xangsamhua]

Locals apparently barricaded the road and stopped the buses PAD was using to go to the temple. PAD got off and fought its way through.

I don't support this latest move to KPV, but I don't think it was PAD who were started the fight, at least as it's reported in the Nation.

The temple is unnecessary diversion for PAD, they should stick to anti- Thaksin agenda. The only good that might come out of it is that Thais in general would try to seriously think about what to do with KPV and surrounding areas.

Cambodians should remove their people, that's a reasonable demand.

The way I see it is that Thais, being friendly neighbors, allowed them to settle there and even erect a Buddhist shrine, but now it's gone to far - the land is in dispute, they are squatters, basically, and their government is threatening to shoot any Thai who approaches there. What gives them right? They are taking advantage of "inhumane Thai military" that doesn't shoot Cambodians living there.

And now some Thais are pissed off and PAD is taking them to the border. Si Sa Ket people shouldn't have try to stop and engage them, it just complicates a fairly simple demand.

This is fair comment, in my view, but there is an ultra-nationalist element in PAD that seems to have got its way with this little caravan. These people will need to be kept under control if PAD wants to make any showing as the New Politics Party. They may appeal to an unhealthy form of Thai chauvinism, but will be no good for the country, domestically or in the region.

[Xangsamhua]

From ABC News Australia

Thai protesters clash with police

By Karen Percy in South East Asia and wires

Posted 3 hours 52 minutes ago

Updated 1 hour 51 minutes ago

Security forces in Thailand are facing off against two separate protest groups - one at the Cambodian border, the other in the capital Bangkok.

There have been reports of clashes between local villagers and protesters from the Peoples' Alliance for Democracy (PAD) near the site of a decades-old land dispute near the Preah Vihear temple at Thailand's north-eastern border.

At least 4,000 protesters from the same group which shut down Bangkok airports last year have gathered near the temple.

Television channels showed the yellow-clad protesters - the Yellow Shirts - armed with sticks trying to beat local villagers and Thai riot police, who pushed back with shields.

About 2,000 Thai police are backing up the military near the temple to stop the protesters getting through to the disputed land, which is littered with land mines.

Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said security forces were trying to persuade the protesters to back down, amid fears that their actions could spark further conflict with Cambodia.

"I am asking the police and soldiers to negotiate with the PAD," Mr Abhisit told reporters in Bangkok.

This is the second time they have caused trouble at the Thai-Cambodian border. Similar protests a year ago set off tensions between the two countries.

While the PAD supported the new Thai government when it came to power last year, it accuses Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva of ceding territory at the temple site.

Meanwhile in Bangkok, red-shirted protesters - the Red Shirts - are demanding new elections be held.

They are marking the absence of their leader, the convicted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a military coup three years ago.

About 5,000 security officers are alert on the city streets to ensure there is no trouble with protesters, who were also involved in street rioting in April.

"We came here today to mark the third anniversary of the coup, which has caused huge damage to the country," Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan told the crowd, as a thunderstorm drenched the protest site.

"This will be a peaceful protest and will end by midnight if the government does not use violence."

[britmaveric]

Arrest the PAD Scum once again they show their true colours. Basically their only agenda is to cause trouble.

[TAWP]

Arrest the PAD Scum once again they show their true colours. Basically their only agenda is to cause trouble.

Agree, which makes them share atleast one thing with the red.

[jayboy]

Sorry TAWP. I forgot to take my fair and balanced pill this morning!

The prescription has been refilled and I think I am back on track!

The comment about taking over a country was presumably made ironically, given that the earlier part of your post was bang on the money and certainly perfectly fair comment.

Since there is nothing to propose that taking over the government house was in any way 'approved' by the military or police, it was not at all a 'perfectly fair' comment.

Or name whoever approved it.

With all due respect,the protection enjoyed by the PAD is not really a matter of any controversy.Chang Noi summarises the position.

"The PAD seems to be protected, perhaps by friends in important places, but also by virtue of its widespread urban support. No other Bangkok protest has suffered so little harassment. When the prime minister angrily threatened to clear PAD off the streets, the security forces refused to cooperate and the prime minister had to back down. When PAD set up a permanent blockade of roads, the police stood aside and public-opinion surveys were surprisingly lenient over the disruption to traffic. When the protest moved to Government House, the police resistance looked like a token showing designed to fail. This apparent immunity gives weight to PAD’s message.

The PAD is flirting with the old agent provocateur’s technique of placing its own crudely armed gangs in places where they will be attacked by enemies. This creates violent incidents, apparently initiated by their opponents, though in truth a result of the inherent violence of the PAD itself.

In short, PAD is an anti-democratic movement, supported by high investment and shadowy protection, that exploits the fears of the privileged and a deliberately anti-rational nationalism, and flirts with militarism and violence."

[NanLaew]

^ No, the Thai army should sit on their hands and let the Cambodian army shoot these idiots while they are on Cambodian soil.

That would not be a very good idea. If one Thai citizen whever they ar egets shot by Cambodian troops then all hel_l will break loose with a prbably instant reply from the Thai military.

The best thing would be for the Thai military to just prevent them reaching the border.

That would be a good thing? Have the army prevent the yellows from doing something senseless and then they get blamed for 'taking sides' and another can of worms gets opened?

The army is NOT the people's nanny and the silly buggers trying to make political hay out of the Preah Vihear 'reclamation' get what they deserve if they step over the border.

I mean the yellow's made the last red governments acquiescence over this temple issue sound like 'treason'. So what is their reasoning now that they have their preferred man in charge?

[anothertorres]

heh. this country is crazy pants.

[xminator]

^ No, the Thai army should sit on their hands and let the Cambodian army shoot these idiots while they are on Cambodian soil.

That would not be a very good idea. If one Thai citizen whever they ar egets shot by Cambodian troops then all hel_l will break loose with a prbably instant reply from the Thai military.

The best thing would be for the Thai military to just prevent them reaching the border.

That would be a good thing? Have the army prevent the yellows from doing something senseless and then they get blamed for 'taking sides' and another can of worms gets opened?

The army is NOT the people's nanny and the silly buggers trying to make political hay out of the Preah Vihear 'reclamation' get what they deserve if they step over the border.

I mean the yellow's made the last red governments acquiescence over this temple issue sound like 'treason'. So what is their reasoning now that they have their preferred man in charge?

Not the peoples nanny? They are sure happy enough to babysit anything remotly red in Bangkok these days.

[Plus]

widespread urban support

Here's your answer what gives PAD its power. They represent significant amount of people with concerns about the country, without any sign of self-interest. They might be wrong and they might be rough, but they are sincere, and they are the best you've got.

Or you can go with elites plans on how to proceed, or the army with the likes of Saprang, or PTP led by Chalerm, or the red mob directed from Dubai.

Take you pick.

[helvetian]

widespread urban support

Here's your answer what gives PAD its power. They represent significant amount of people with concerns about the country, without any sign of self-interest. They might be wrong and they might be rough, but they are sincere, and they are the best you've got.

Or you can go with elites plans on how to proceed, or the army with the likes of Saprang, or PTP led by Chalerm, or the red mob directed from Dubai.

Take you pick.

I thought the PAD were the thugs powered by the elite? not the "significant amount of people with concerns about the country". If they were concerned about the country, they wouldn't continue to create unrest, which is then shows in the evening news around the world and dropping Thailand further down the list in countries preferred by tourists, as they did when they took the airports and government buildings hostage.

I highly doubt they're "sincere" or "the best you've got". I'm pretty sure they're the worst we've got right now.

YouTube Videos from Thai TV:

Edited September 19, 2009 by helvetian

[Plus]

And they even stated that they would fight everyone in their way.

People "in their way" do not come with flowers, so what do you expect?

PAD shouldn't have provoked the locals with their rally, but the locals shouldn't have tried to force PAD to abandon it either.

Don't get carried away with blame game - the best scenario would have been PAD peacefully rallying on Thai soil and their concerns conveyed to the Thai and Cambodian military.

Now the opportunity is lost. Who thwarted it, and what was the purpose?

Was the point to prove that PAD is violent? That would seem like a provocation if not outright setup. I hope the locals were just stupid and didn't know what they were doing, and probably still don't.

And it would be a scandal if there was some outside influence to lure PAD into a fight. Those bloody invisible hands, or invisible bloody hands - both fit.

[helvetian]

Yes, the army need to stop them from getting anywhere near the border - anything less would be beyond irresponsible; there are plenty of soldiers in the vacinity. They cannot let the PAD (or any other group) cause a potentially disasterous international incident.

I'd say let them run into Cambodia. I'm sure Cambodia will resolve the problem of the PAD faster than Thailand ever will.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes, the army need to stop them from getting anywhere near the border - anything less would be beyond irresponsible; there are plenty of soldiers in the vacinity. They cannot let the PAD (or any other group) cause a potentially disasterous international incident.

I'd say let them run into Cambodia. I'm sure Cambodia will resolve the problem of the PAD faster than Thailand ever will.

It would believe that there was an element of the PAD that wanted to provoke something with the Cambodians. Fortunately, someone sensibly decided that this would have been an absolutely idiotic thing to do and either they stopped themselves or they were forced not to.

Either way, everyone appears to live to fight another day. But, the actions of the PAD today show that they are no where near as sensible or "peace" loving, as people have tried to portray them.

They may well find that they will be watched and marshalled as closely as the reds in the future, which is definitely a good thing.

[Thai at Heart]

Causing fights in your own back yard is one thing.

Threatening to pick a fight cross border is something that the PAD will probably discover will lose them an awful lot of backing in the current political scene. They are loose cannons that need to be brought well and truly under control.

Could you imagine if they (PAD) had gone just a little bit further in distance and action. Thailand and Cambodia could be at war by now.

[EffectiveAnger]

What are their plans for Sunday? Are they still out there?

I heard gun shots. What was that all about?

There was so much blood all over the pavement that the firemen had to use their water and hoses to spray it all off the road. The media didn't show where the blood came from or how it happened. I guess someone got shot.

[mca]

Locals apparently barricaded the road and stopped the buses PAD was using to go to the temple. PAD got off and fought its way through.

I don't support this latest move to KPV, but I don't think it was PAD who were started the fight, at least as it's reported in the Nation.

Cambodians should remove their people, that's a reasonable demand.

The way I see it is that Thais, being friendly neighbors, allowed them to settle there and even erect a Buddhist shrine, but now it's gone to far - the land is in dispute, they are squatters, basically, and their government is threatening to shoot any Thai who approaches there. What gives them right? They are taking advantage of "inhumane Thai military" that doesn't shoot Cambodians living there.

And now some Thais are pissed off and PAD is taking them to the border. Si Sa Ket people shouldn't have try to stop and engage them, it just complicates a fairly simple demand.

And your stance had those folks been wearing red shirts?

[mc2]

there were 2 protest, reds was peaceful that day, yellows was violent.

covered in the report from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8264189.stm

By early evening, several thousand demonstrators had joined the protests, police said.

"This will be a peaceful protest and will end by midnight if the government does not use violence," Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan said.

The yellow camp, meanwhile, battled riot police and local villagers near Preah Vihear, the temple complex at the heart of a border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia.

Edited September 19, 2009 by mc2

[Xangsamhua]

From the Bangkok Post 20/09/09

PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang yesterday distanced all five PAD leaders from the Preah Vihear campaign.

The PAD leadership will have to rein in this ultra-nationalist element, and firmly. Their performance yesterday was irresponsible and counter-productive, both for PAD and the country. Any gains the anti-Thaksin forces in the northeast border areas may have made have been thrown out the window by these overheated and mentally challenged adventurists.

[mca]

And they even stated that they would fight everyone in their way.

People "in their way" do not come with flowers, so what do you expect?

PAD shouldn't have provoked the locals with their rally, but the locals shouldn't have tried to force PAD to abandon it either.

Don't get carried away with blame game - the best scenario would have been PAD peacefully rallying on Thai soil and their concerns conveyed to the Thai and Cambodian military.

Now the opportunity is lost. Who thwarted it, and what was the purpose?

Was the point to prove that PAD is violent? That would seem like a provocation if not outright setup. I hope the locals were just stupid and didn't know what they were doing, and probably still don't.

And it would be a scandal if there was some outside influence to lure PAD into a fight. Those bloody invisible hands, or invisible bloody hands - both fit.

And I would imagine if those shirts had been red instead of yellow certain posters on this forum would be shouting about "thugs" etc. Any suggestion that the reds had been provoked or set up by outside forces, invisible hands, stupid locals not knowing what they were doing etc would be met with derision.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

[webfact]

17 injured in clash near Preah Vihear

By THE NATION ON SUNDAY

SI SA KET

Published on September 20, 2009

Seventeen people were injured yesterday as thousands of protesters from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) clashed with local residents who live near Preah Vihear temple.

A protester from Chachoengsao, Phongsak Ritthichaikul, was hit in the right eye by a stone, while villager Prasert Piewkhao suffered facial injuries after being beaten up.

Teenagers armed with sticks and slingshots attacked the yellow shirts as they marched through their village to Preah Vihear.

Local villagers opposed the PAD protest, as they feared it could spark a war with Cambodia. The villagers have already suffered from the temple being closed, which has cost them income from the lack of tourists. Access to their farms has also been blocked by the military since last year.

The villagers were a similar mob to one that clashed with the PAD in July last year when yellow shirts rallied at the site to oppose the site being nominated for World Heritage listing.

However, thousands of PAD protesters led by Veera Somkwamkid managed to break the police and villagers' barricades in Si Sa Ket's Ban Phumsarol to reach the gate of Pha Mor Ee Daeng, next to Preah Vihear temple.

Veera said the villagers were misinformed about the PAD mission.

"We have come here to demand the removal of Cambodians from the disputed 4.6-square-kilometre area," he told reporters after the clash.

The PAD just wanted to enter Pha Mor Ee Daeng to read out their statement. However, they would stay put if the Abhisit government made no clear proposals to evict the Cambodians, he warned.

Si Sa Ket provincial governor Rapee Phongpuphakit had lengthy negotiations with Veera but failed to get the protesters to leave the site.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila yesterday called on the government to ensure safety of the protesters and prevent future clashes with local residents.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, in Bangkok, said he did not understand the PAD's intent. "I don't understand what is the purpose behind their protest," he told reporters.

The government had tried to brief the Cambodian government about the PAD protest and begged Phnom Penh to understand the situation to prevent a military clash, he said.

Second Army Region Commander Wiboonsak Neeparn said the protesters would not be allowed to get into Preah Vihear and the disputed area.

The most they would be allowed to do was for some representatives to read a statement at Pha Mor Ee Daeng.

-- The Nation 2009/09/20

[Plus]

From the Nation's report - "The PAD just wanted to enter Pha Mor Ee Daeng to read out their statement."

Why they had to be stopped on the way there? On what grounds? Why were they met with barricades?

Once PAD broke thought those barricades and reached Pha Mor Ee Daeng they were contained there without problems.

Once reds broke through blue provocateurs in Pattaya they stormed Asean meeting.

This episode should be an opportunity to discuss why Thais descended into fighting with other Thais over how to deal with Cambodians. Reds were not there, no need to bring them into this topic, thanks to Webfact they have a few dozen threads of their own.

[mca]

Reds were not there, no need to bring them into this topic,

As opposed to when a thread goes on about red shirt violence and then somebody pops up with how well behaved the yellow shirts are in comparison.

[Plus]

I thought the PAD were the thugs powered by the elite? not the "significant amount of people with concerns about the country".

Sorry, but widespread urban support is in Jayboy's quote from Chang Noi, even if I disagree with the tone of it.

If they were concerned about the country, they wouldn't continue to create unrest,

And now PAD leaders distanced themselves from KPV adventure, and none of them was present there.

which is then shows in the evening news around the world and dropping Thailand further down the list in countries preferred by tourists, as they did when they took the airports and government buildings hostage.

Maybe, but no one had any better ways of fighting off Thaksin. The court took almost a year to issue a verdict, and without PAD protests the govt, which gained power via illegal means, could have completely exonerate Thaksin, outlaw AEC and rehabilitate banned TRT executives.

PAD protests were natural reaction of people towards abuse of power by politicians, starting with Thaksin, and it was a rather small price to pay in retrospect. Thanks to PAD, Thaksin is now finished and toothless, and hopes for a miracle.

[animatic]

Not opposed to , but in the same way,

as bringing Reds in to PAD discussions of Yellows into UDD discussions.

Regardless if there are some overlapping issues, the partisanship of trumpeting the other sides

culpability for OTHER PAST ACTIONS does NOTHING to make the point against

nor abrogate and perceived sins.

A useless waste of hot air.