Bangkok Post Bans Thaivisa From Using Its Content

[geriatrickid]

Pitty, I find the Bkk Post far better than the Nation

My sentiments too. The quality of the language is significantly better too, I have found that the BP is also more open to dissenting opinions.

[bangkokrick]

OK, I'm going to ask the question that I hope other people are thinking:

What is an RSS feed?

Really simple syndication. It allows you to bring information from many sources into one place rather than you looking and searching individual websites, So if you have a home page you can link RSS feeds to that home page. All the things that you are interested are in one place.

Cheers, Rick

[eggomaniac]

Ban is NOT the right word to use; bar is! This might seem small but is very germane to the discussion.

Most of you 'freedomites' misunderstood the OP because of this one small word.

If you wrote and sold poetry, you would want to bar someone who was copying it and giving it away for free.

LOOK at the OP.

should read>> "The Bk Post will not dispute the continued rebroadcast of their content if TV uses a publishing means which is acceptable to them."

Do the RSS feeds result in Income for the Originators, as it website clicks and/or exposure to their advertisers?

How the BKK post is the 'bad guy' is beyond me. They told TV under what circumstances they can rip off their work.

Edited October 2, 2009 by eggomaniac

[YouYouYou]

Thai Visa folks ...(sry aint read all the posts here, so may be repeating). Hey never mind as the BK Post has steadily become toilet and their news is biased and serves an elite in Thailand ...have you noticed how they dont genuinely upset anyone lately? (except those fallen from power already). This is indeed a rag and surely not newsworthy ...if anything TV, they've done you a favour ...there's much more newsworthy news on this website than can be found in the BK Post.

Forget em and forget the RSS, even if you do do this ...forget em still ...bunch of elistist wasters, the BK post that is!

YYY.

[eggomaniac]

I am very familiar with the Thai kingdom and it's ability to block sites and I think it prudent on the part of Thaivisa if it wishes to remain accessible in Thailand. That I am not in disagreement with. What I said was, no one can STOP anyone from posting other's content. They might block access to it in one area but that didn't stop the content from being used. Closing your eyes doesn't mean the issue has been solved, it just means that you and a few others can't see it anymore.

This does not mean comments and posts about some news story based on an item in the BKK post are barred. Example, "According to the BBK post, issue #, page 82, there have been a series of mugging in the Lookout District. Be careful if you are visiting that area."

It's when you Copy and Paste page 82 that copyright issues are in dispute.

The BKK never said their content cannot be used; they SAID their content CAN be used.

They are NOT banning free speech, they are barring plagiarism!

[ijwelch]

the bp just prints ap news we've all read online the day before anyway. who gives a fckg shit.

Edited October 2, 2009 by ijwelch

[ThaisGood]

As a journalist of over 20 years and lecturer of Mass Comms, I am unaware of the legal strength of this decision, and it sounds as though you are too - as you have not mentioned any REAL legal argument for this decision. Have you been bullied? Acted out of fear? Simply believed that you can not properly quote with use of referents, just because they told you so?

You must be quite ashamed of your profession, the existence of journalists writing truly objective stories freely in the "mainstream media" is nonexistent. Try writing a story critical of Israel for example.... Frankly, when I see someone boast that they are a 20 year journalist and lecturer in the field, my first reaction is a desire to spit in their face for letting us all down, in particular the last 10 years or so.

[Bisto]

ThaiVisa.com have you taken this lying down?

As a journalist of over 20 years and lecturer of Mass Comms, I am unaware of the legal strength of this decision, and it sounds as though you are too - as you have not mentioned any REAL legal argument for this decision. Have you been bullied? Acted out of fear? Simply believed that you can not properly quote with use of referents, just because they told you so?

This sounds fishy ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.

Perhaps you may wish to put this to rest by actually quoting your legal source, or making reference to the legal precedent that actually forbids you from quoting with use of referents.

There is NO legal precedent for this. They have NO legal right to prevent you from quoting them with full credit.

What's the REAL story here Thaivisa?

Don't you have a duty to report the truth, ethically and responsibly, as well as some kind of duty to your readership?

Maybe you should make a stand - with respect.

you may want to look here for answers who is on the take.

[eggomaniac]

http://preahvihear.com/

Are other forums and blogs being asked to use RRS to rebroadcast their material?

[moe666]

Why are some of the readers making a mountain out of a molehill.

Bangkok Post has requested Thaivisa not to post their news stories here and Thaivisa has agreeded. Thaivisa has taken it futher and banned quotations.

So what is the big deal.

[Zebo]

I can't say I blame them, they spend money on getting news. Thaivisa takes the news and copy pastes it into the forum for free.

Such thing as copyright, which it's high time people respected.

Sorry to any Thaivisa staff member that may be offended, but this would not be a problem if you employed your own reporters.

[featography]

I cannot load Bangkok Post anymore these days on firefox or chrome. It just won't load. I leave it loading for 10 minutes and come back, and all I see is the header. Their traffic may be down as they have problems with their web servers orsomething. I do not have this problem with any other site and have a fast connection, though in the U.S. right now.

I concur. I live 30-40minutes s.w. of Bangkok, and with firefox and IE I have the same problem loading it. This has been going on for over a year.

I can access any news site in US or Europe almost instantly at any time.

[tmark]

My advice on TV would be to put freedom of speech before any commercial interests 

Arai Nah? !!!!

[tmark]

the bp just prints ap news we've all read online the day before anyway. who gives a fckg shit.

 What's wrong with that? Doesn't hurt!. Happens all the time even here! I see a story on Thai Television on a Wednesday and get a "Breaking News" email from Thai Visa on the following Friday. Jing Jing ! No big deal!. Just delete and continue. Only takes 3 seconds. My time is valuable but not THAT valuable!

[brahmburgers]

Most of us are afflicted with a multi-generational syndrome which expects something for nothing. Endless freeware and pirated DVD's. Come on guys, you moved out of your parents' house long ago. Time to be responsible. You don't have to appreciate all the folks working behind the scenes, but you might consider paying people for the work that gets done. Musicians, Actors, projectionists, arrangers, ....yes, and even newspaper reporters are doing jobs every day and have to put food on their tables and roofs over their heads and the heads of their families. Sure, some musicians and actors and directors get paid extraordinary sums, but there are a whole lot of 'little people' who assist with such creative endeavors.

The Bkk Post has been looking better compared to The Nation, not necessarily because the Post has been improving, but more because the Nation has increasingly packed their pages with business articles. BORING. I like a broader spectrum of news.

Regardless, the Post pays reporters and probably pays for syndicated articles, so why should others think they can willy nilly pull their paid-for info for free, and post it elsewhere?

err, don't tell your friends or neighbors what you read in the newspapers, you are going to be in trouble either way, - by the news provider's fairytales and attempts to manipulate society and by the gestapo of the same of claiming all information, invention, everything that was ever said, written or made belongs to them.

Fellas, they have plenty of proof that any phrases, wordings and whatsoever were used by them long before the beginning of time.

Just amused here.

You sound like a conspiracy nut. It may sound cool (and impresses the ladies) to state that all newspapers are bunk, but what's your alternative? Does your strange friend who lives under the bridge have the real stories, and all else is 'fairy tales' and 'manipulative/gestapo spoutings?'

Sure there's some junk in newspapers, but chalk it up to a microcosm of life itself, which is riven with junk - and try to find a way to appreciate that much of what's in newspapers is ......news, of one sort or another. Different strokes for different folks.

Nobody is making you read it. If you think it's all bunk, then go on to do something else. I actually enjoy sitting somewhere are casually going through the daily newspaper. If there's something I don't want to read, I skip it.

[kmj]

I cannot load Bangkok Post anymore these days on firefox or chrome. It just won't load. I leave it loading for 10 minutes and come back, and all I see is the header. Their traffic may be down as they have problems with their web servers orsomething. I do not have this problem with any other site and have a fast connection, though in the U.S. right now.

I concur. I live 30-40minutes s.w. of Bangkok, and with firefox and IE I have the same problem loading it. This has been going on for over a year.

I can access any news site in US or Europe almost instantly at any time.

never have a problem FF, IE & Safari - and I have to say its a pretty slick looking site...

[webfact]

I cannot load Bangkok Post anymore these days on firefox or chrome. It just won't load. I leave it loading for 10 minutes and come back, and all I see is the header. Their traffic may be down as they have problems with their web servers orsomething. I do not have this problem with any other site and have a fast connection, though in the U.S. right now.

I concur. I live 30-40minutes s.w. of Bangkok, and with firefox and IE I have the same problem loading it. This has been going on for over a year.

I can access any news site in US or Europe almost instantly at any time.

Its actually going on much longer since BP server moved outside Thailand. That was many years ago

and nobody seems able to fix that slow motion loading ever since...

[Ecchi]

The answer probably lies more in the fact that the BP now have their own forum that I guess they want people to adapt to rather than discuss it on Thiavisa.

[jfchandler]

Thank you, George, for updating folks on the issue of BP web links, and clarifying where things stand for now -- that TV is asking that no BP web links be posted until a policy can be hashed out and posted here for all to see.

[suthnuh]

ThaiVisa.com have you taken this lying down?

As a journalist of over 20 years and lecturer of Mass Comms, I am unaware of the legal strength of this decision, and it sounds as though you are too - as you have not mentioned any REAL legal argument for this decision. Have you been bullied? Acted out of fear? Simply believed that you can not properly quote with use of referents, just because they told you so?

This sounds fishy ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.

Perhaps you may wish to put this to rest by actually quoting your legal source, or making reference to the legal precedent that actually forbids you from quoting with use of referents.

There is NO legal precedent for this. They have NO legal right to prevent you from quoting them with full credit.

What's the REAL story here Thaivisa?

Don't you have a duty to report the truth, ethically and responsibly, as well as some kind of duty to your readership?

Maybe you should make a stand - with respect.

I highly recommend those interested in the actual issues surround the ethics of online publishing and responsibility take a look here: http://facstaff.elon.edu/andersj/ethics.html It's still very fertile ground for debate, and there really is no international regulation.

While I agree the fully referenced quoting of someone else's content should be okay, many organizations do not provide total reference credit, nor do they provide link to the source.

Thaivisa.com has always assigned credit where it was due, but ethicly they are obligated to abide by the wishes of the owner of the intellectual property (content).

With that said, there is no reason legally that Thaivisa would be prevented from aggregating headlines, attaching mini-summaries to them, and linking the headline as a redirect to the original source.

I agree also that I can find no online reference to any "Society of Online News Providers". Maybe it's something Bangkok Post has established themselves???

Cheers,

Banana

[Plus]

The current ban on BP is not a solution, it's just the first step towards finding one - they've made their point and aired their grievances and issued their threats.

That's just the beginning, there will be long negotiations, each proposal would need a complex technical backup, maybe the first two solutions won't work at all. It's a work in progress. Give it some time.

[tmark]

The current ban on BP is not a solution, it's just the first step towards finding one - they've made their point and aired their grievances and issued their threats.

That's just the beginning, there will be long negotiations, each proposal would need a complex technical backup, maybe the first two solutions won't work at all. It's a work in progress. Give it some time.

 Fine sounding gobbelty gook but it's really all a load of rubbish here in Thailand. Go ahead and copy paste to your hearts content. 100's of schools, government departments, Police Stations and who knows who else can't be wrong.

Paranoid? Boozing and whore mongering financing endangered? By all means take heed. Otherwise, relax. TIT. 

Storm in a tea cup.

[MB1]

The current ban on BP is not a solution, it's just the first step towards finding one - they've made their point and aired their grievances and issued their threats.

That's just the beginning, there will be long negotiations, each proposal would need a complex technical backup, maybe the first two solutions won't work at all. It's a work in progress. Give it some time.

I have just read the whole 10 pages of this thread and maybe I have missed something that you are aware of, where have the BP issued their threats ?.

[elcent]

I cannot load Bangkok Post anymore these days on firefox or chrome. It just won't load. I leave it loading for 10 minutes and come back, and all I see is the header. Their traffic may be down as they have problems with their web servers orsomething. I do not have this problem with any other site and have a fast connection, though in the U.S. right now.

I concur. I live 30-40minutes s.w. of Bangkok, and with firefox and IE I have the same problem loading it. This has been going on for over a year.

I can access any news site in US or Europe almost instantly at any time.

Its actually going on much longer since BP server moved outside Thailand. That was many years ago

and nobody seems able to fix that slow motion loading ever since...

The problem is not the servers outside but their website has formatting issues. It won't work with some browsers for security reasons. Here it loads fast but when you try to click on a link it doesn't work and I have to work around each time I go there. It's like set to click on the large ad first before you can click on an article. Quite tricky if you ask me. I click around that area so that the ad extends in blue, click again then to make it disappear and then I can proceed to an article. The ad obviously covers the links hidden this why it won't work at first. This happens for about a year now.

You remember the annoying ads when you mouse over, something is still there, but hidden.

On purpose or not is not mine to judge, but such a long time without clearing this bug is suspicious.

I'm talking about this script

<li id="leaderAd" class="leaderAd" onMouseOver="this.className='leaderAdExpand '" onMouseOut="this.className='leaderAd'"><script type="text/javascript">spac_writeAd( "/SITE=BANGKOKPOST/AREA=HOMEPAGE/AAMSZ=728X90PIXELS/POSITION=CENTER/METHOD=JSCRIPT" );</script></li>

Edited October 2, 2009 by elcent

[MekhongKurt]

Wonder what the legal situation is here in Thailand concerning fair use, in terms of quoting published media content?

Sunny

Khun Sunny, this is something I've discussed for years at length with my local attorney, who specializes in IPR law, and as I understand it, one very big factor is "Well, it depends." I am not being sarcastic, nor critical of Thailand, just passing along what I take to be good information.

[Drew Aitch]

What is the policy regarding linking to stories in The Bangkok Post? Is that prohibited too?

Of course it's not! As a web publisher myself, Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) relies on 2 things:

1. Online optimisation (content, relevancy, keyword density, page layout, site structure, and so on..)

2. Off line optimisation ( non-reciprocal linking from other sites, blogs, and forums, along with visibility (promotion & traffic))

In fact, it is these 2 things mainly (plus a bunch of lesser variables) that gets websites found on search engines. This means that any online project just loves getting links to its pages, especially if they are free and come from aged, authority sites with Google Page Rank (PR).

Apart from the above, it is no crime in any country for any one website to hyperlink to another. No such law exists anywhere, nor would it serve any useful purpose.

Aitch

[Plus]

The OP states that Bangkok Post articles can't be posted here for legal reasons and to protect forum members. That sounds like there is a threat, but yes, they haven't openly came out said they'd sure everyone's socks off.

Tmark, while there's a lot of piracy going on here, there's very little Thai pirated content, particularly movies, and local companies like Grammy have been fairly strict with their music and karaoke CDs.

And again, it's not your business that can get sued by Bangkok Post, so hold off your advice until you are ready to accept responsibility.

[MekhongKurt]

Actually, this isn't very surprising. I've wondered before if you have agreements with sources you use. I am *not* criticizing -- I just have previously thought about it.

Don't know that it's such a smart move on their part, since with the traffic Thaivisa.com gets, to have their stories here has to be of some advertising benefot for the paper. For free.

Don't know about the fair-use doctrine as it applies to headlines. Google has quarreled with some heavyweights over that, as has (I think) Yahoo.

[johndpoole]

This is BS and am shocked ThaiVisa is lying down for this. News is news and can be shared via other news outlets if given credit. Large news organizations repost news articles from from small local papers all the time and simply need to credit the source. Go look at CNN or Fox right now for local news worthy events where they don't have reports on the ground.

News cannot be copyrighted ... it is news and to report on what somebody has wrote or said cannot be controlled ... except maybe in Thailand ;-)

I would suspect the Post would be fine with running the first few paragraphs of a story and then adding click here for the complete story from the Post.

Isn't the post kind of a joke though??? They rarely cover any controversial news.

[spongeman]

They are on the Post forum having a very deep conversation about Thaivisa......

Did'nt know they had a forum, Thaivisa does'nt have anything to be worried about. Ever.