Flushing problem

[hunglikea]

We have 2 toilets that will not dispose of what they are suppose to! Showers and basins are fine. We have tried caustic soda and the 'sludge gulpers' but to no avail. 'Plumbers' are unheard of here - Nakhon Sawan at least - unless anyone knows better?

[Crossy]

Do the toilets flush properly with only water, ie is it just a case of the 'product' not going away, or do the bowls back up?

Check your septic, it may need emptying.

Has the house been empty for a while (and the pipes dried out)?

[Farma]

We had a similar problem with the toilets in one of our places. Despite being upstairs it still took multiple flushes to get rid of the product.

The only way I found to cure the problem was to remove the cheap western style toilets that came with the building and install ones of better quality.

The original toilets had a 3” opening at the base of the bowl and would back up just flushing water. The news ones have a much larger opening and allow water and product to flush away easily.

[hunglikea]

Do the toilets flush properly with only water, ie is it just a case of the 'product' not going away, or do the bowls back up?

Check your septic, it may need emptying.

Has the house been empty for a while (and the pipes dried out)?

We've lived here 6 years. The cisterns flush but even just the water doesn't drain away for hours so we just keep throwing more buckets down until it all goes. Yuk!

We're on mains drainage.

Will have to start using Big C toilets until we can sort it!

Edited October 2, 2009 by hunglikea

[hunglikea]

We had a similar problem with the toilets in one of our places. Despite being upstairs it still took multiple flushes to get rid of the product.

The only way I found to cure the problem was to remove the cheap western style toilets that came with the building and install ones of better quality.

The original toilets had a 3” opening at the base of the bowl and would back up just flushing water. The news ones have a much larger opening and allow water and product to flush away easily.

But why has it just started happening after all this time? Ours are the normal toilets (I think) - Karat.

[ronz28]

Try squeezing a little (roughly two tablespoons) dishwater liquid into the bowel and let it set there for 15 minutes then flush. May take another dose to clear it out. If that doesn't work you may have tree roots in your outside pipe.

[Crossy]

It certainly seems like a stoppage since it's affecting both loos.

Time to check out the manholes I'm afraid, there 'should' be removable covers on the way to the main sewer, by watching what happens when you flush you should be able to locate the obstruction. I've seen bamboo drain rods in Homepro

[Farma]

If it's only recent I can only guess the water table has risen due to the rain and is causing problems with drainage

The only other thing could be an object causing blockage. I had a similar problem years ago that turned out to be a toilet deodorant plastic holder stuck in the toilet bend just out of sight.

[lopburi3]

What is your water level? Nakhon Sawan is a lake this time of the year and probably the water level is so high they can not flush properly? It should not be going directly into public drains but into a septic system and from there to the drains. If this is first year you have had problems it may be time to have the septic tank pumped out.

The showers/sinks will not go to the septic tank so would drain normally into the public system if water levels are not too high.

[hunglikea]

It certainly seems like a stoppage since it's affecting both loos.

Time to check out the manholes I'm afraid, there 'should' be removable covers on the way to the main sewer, by watching what happens when you flush you should be able to locate the obstruction. I've seen bamboo drain rods in Homepro

We've done that. Not with proper drain rods but just with a hose and it hasn't loosened anything.

There's not been that much flooding here this year compared to most so I can't see the water table being an issue and we don't have septic tank to empty.

[elkangorito]

Is toilet paper being flushed?

Do you have large trees near the sewer line?

If you were in Australia, I would recommend a "camera" investigation. It's a camera on the end of a rod, which is passed into the sewer. It gives live footage of what is in the sewer pipe.

Since you are in Thailand & connected to a sewer system, you may have tree roots blocking your pipe. If this is the case, copper sulphate is a long term solution. To unblock the pipe, you will need an "eel"...a device connected to a flexible cable that has rotating cutting heads on it OR you can use a water cutter (high pressure water that cuts away tree roots etc).

Since this is Thailand & maybe no such thing(s) is/are available, start digging.

Good luck.

BTW, tree roots are responsible for the majority of sewer pipe blockages.

[lopburi3]

I find it hard to believe there is a public sewerage system. Are you positive there is no septic tank before getting to the gray water drains? That would explain the sinks/showers not having a problem as they would do directly.

Edited October 4, 2009 by lopburi3

[Cuban]

We've done that. Not with proper drain rods but just with a hose and it hasn't loosened anything.

Domestic mains water pressure is not high enough to shift anything but the smallest blockage, there are mobile SSTs that could suck through the blocked pipe from the smelly end. Those run by the local government office are many times cheaper than privately owned ones that cruise the streets on the off chance of a customer.

Considering the nature of the problem calling in people with the correct tools would be my choice.

And yes I have dealt with similar domestic blockages before, locked in the smallest room with many plastic bags and a plunger can work but is not the easist option. If you choose this route, empty out as much of the water from the WC end first then try a good squirt of an acid cleaner - leave overnight - that might be enough to loosen the blockage when pumped with a plunger the next day.

HTH.

[hunglikea]

We have used the ones who travel the streets as we thought they could empty our 'septic tank'. I called a halt to it when I realised they were clearing everyone else attached to the mains drains and it cost me a fortune! The wise old man next door told me we don't have septic tank don't use those thieves (after the event)!

We've also tried the caustic soda, which is the acid I guess you mean. I wish we could find 'people with the correct tools'...where??

I think I'm going the route of the poster suggesting 'more expensive' bogs with larger outlets.

Thanks.

[hunglikea]

BTW, tree roots are responsible for the majority of sewer pipe blockages.

Not near any trees or roots at all.

[hunglikea]

I find it hard to believe there is a public sewerage system. Are you positive there is no septic tank before getting to the gray water drains? That would explain the sinks/showers not having a problem as they would do directly.

Lopburi I am always in awe of your knowledge on these posts but unfortunately I am sure you are wrong on this one.

However, if you are a betting man, how about IOU a case of Chang (or whatever is your tipple) if I get the sludgegulpers to suck out the 'septic tank' again and we have 'happy flushing'?

You will be welcome to be the first one to use it...you'll need it after a case!

[lopburi3]

Where did you have the truck sucking from? If from drains then expect you were pulling from afar. You are in a house or townhouse right? Have you looked everywhere for brass or chrome covers about six inches round that screw into cement or tile? That is the normal septic tank access that is removed to suck them out with truck. As you say there are trucks making the rounds it does sound like people do use septic tanks in your location. I am in Bangkok and we use them. But only toilets go to them - showers and sinks go directly to gray water drains.

[elkangorito]

BTW, tree roots are responsible for the majority of sewer pipe blockages.

Not near any trees or roots at all.

I should have been a bit more specific since tree roots are known to travel 30m to a sewage pipe.

[Cuban]

We've also tried the caustic soda, which is the acid I guess you mean.

Well caustic soda is a base high pH (alkali) rather than an acid low pH - but in practical application the effect you seek is the same.

From Wikipedia: "Tissue digestion: This is a process that was used with farm animals at one time. This process involves the placing of a carcass into a sealed chamber, which then puts the carcass in a mixture of sodium hydroxide (Caustic Soda) and water, which breaks chemical bonds keeping the body intact. This eventually turns the body into a coffee-like liquid, and the only solid that remains are bone hulls, which could be crushed between one's fingertips."

You do understand that this is a dangerous chemical and if you choose to use it with bare hands and no safety glasses Thai working practices have rubbed off onto you more than they should !

In the case of a sewer pipe blockage, caustic soda will should dissolve the built up material, paper and sanitary towels if these have been flushed by error or embarrassment - teenage girls in the house?

I would expect the 'offical' response is not to use such harsh chemicals as these on a public utility like the sewer, physical removal of the blockage would be better and an enviromental solution.

> I wish we could find 'people with the correct tools'...where??

Indeed a universal problem in Thailand - on the bright side it does make for an educational time as 'we' have to learn about so many facets of life.

[mirthseeker]

We had exactly the same kind of flushing problem in our (renovated) house in Bkk. Due to an airlock in the pipe between the pan and the septic tank / holding tank. There should be a breather pipe installed after the pan, before the tank. If there is one, as there was in our case, it may become blocked due to waste backing up into the breather when the tank is full of waste, or if the outlet of the tank is blocked. In our case, the breather pipe was installed too low in the pipe, (too far away from the pan also). We had to pull up the tiled floor, and install a new pipe which vented thru the wall, up thru the roof, and that solved the problem. Best of luck, the artisans around here haven't a clue about western style pans, and blame the pan, rather than their installation methods.

[David006]

We had exactly the same kind of flushing problem in our (renovated) house in Bkk. Due to an airlock in the pipe between the pan and the septic tank / holding tank. There should be a breather pipe installed after the pan, before the tank. If there is one, as there was in our case, it may become blocked due to waste backing up into the breather when the tank is full of waste, or if the outlet of the tank is blocked. In our case, the breather pipe was installed too low in the pipe, (too far away from the pan also). We had to pull up the tiled floor, and install a new pipe which vented thru the wall, up thru the roof, and that solved the problem. Best of luck, the artisans around here haven't a clue about western style pans, and blame the pan, rather than their installation methods.

All good info..I cannot see if the OP says if this is a recent problem? If not then perhaps the toilets have been wrongly installed over the poop hole. When I installed our "Farang toilets" I was unable to find wax rings and was told by the Homepro manager that they use silicon..which I did hence it oozed into the pipe restricting it and giving purchase to effluent. Brought a couple of wax rings back from Canada! In Oz they sometimes use a pipe head fitting which has a rubber collar seal into which the toilet base flange slides..much better. I also installed a y connector in outlet below toilets with a cap for access and cleaning should I have any Mango stones or other issue deposited by the all unknowing.... Paranoia from dissembling and unblocking boat "heads" I guess...

[mirthseeker]

All good info..I cannot see if the OP says if this is a recent problem? If not then perhaps the toilets have been wrongly installed over the poop hole. When I installed our "Farang toilets" I was unable to find wax rings and was told by the Homepro manager that they use silicon..which I did hence it oozed into the pipe restricting it and giving purchase to effluent. Brought a couple of wax rings back from Canada! In Oz they sometimes use a pipe head fitting which has a rubber collar seal into which the toilet base flange slides..much better. I also installed a y connector in outlet below toilets with a cap for access and cleaning should I have any Mango stones or other issue deposited by the all unknowing.... Paranoia from dissembling and unblocking boat "heads" I guess...

These wax rings are available from American Standard, should anyone need them.

[finner]

Every house or townhouse I've ever lived in in Thailand had a sceptic tank. They build the tank first then the house on top of it. As lopburi3 says, look for a brass circular cover near the hong nam, actually usually right at the toilet but since you have a double head, look somewhere between them and pray it hasn't been tiled over!

[hunglikea]

Finally sorted it out. We took the ground floor toilet out, poked around in the hole under the toilet and poured loads of water down and it dislodged whatever was there.

I had already looked in the the chamber under the 6" screw cap (only about 2' deep so not a septic tank) and it was normal, ie half full (or half empty ). No 'septic tank' problem, just a blockage. This also released the upstairs loo as well so we have 'happy flushing'.