Thaksin Says Abhisit Has No Leadership

[animatic]

Thaksin beats Abhisit in popularity survey

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra beat Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva in an opinion survey.

The survey by Assumption University's Abac Poll found that 25 per cent of the respondents said they preferred Thaksin over Abhisit while 21.6 per cent said they preferred Abhsit.

However, more than half of the respondents - 53.4 per cent - refused to express support for either politician.

The Nation

October 25, 2009 :

Were did they take the pole beside the somtom stall?

Demographics based polls are totally location and numbers driven.

They can be easily manipulated, especially this 'typical' ABAC polls of 2,500 persons or less.

Any sampling below 1% of the populace,

evenly divided numerically between all population segments,

relative to their individual size at a location,

across the whole area represented is given from 3-5-10% margin of error

for lack of sample weight. 3-5% of totally group (65mil.) is best for any valid sampling of sentiment.

Even at 3% error Abhisit is well within the margin of error caused by a far too small sampling area.

The fact they don't state where, how large a sample, and the EXACT questions in order asked,

indicates it has rather small validity in the bigger picture.

What ISN'T anywhere near in dispute is the 53+% who didn't want to commit to either.

A glaring indictment of the Thai political class.

[Mario2008]

1 flaming post, making fun of someones English skills, removed.

[mca]

People that hang around Somtom stall people are mostly from Laos and Myanmar and Cambodia. Not many Thais, who have the right to vote.

And of course you have the statistics to back up what is possibly the biggest load of b@llocks ever posted on this forum?

Edited October 26, 2009 by mca

[LawnGnome]

People that hang around Somtom stall people are mostly from Laos and Myanmar and Cambodia. Not many Thais, who have the right to vote.

And of course you have the statistics to back up what is possibly the biggest load of b@llocks ever posted on this forum?

mca, where is your Thaksin avatar? I miss his sunny disposition.

[mca]

Loathe the man actually but to not be a supporter of Aphasit doesn't make one a Thaksin fan.

So I take it from your decision to respond to my post you're in agreement with Yoshitaka?

Edited October 26, 2009 by mca

[LawnGnome]

Loathe the man actually but to not be a supporter of Aphasit doesn't make one a Thaksin fan.

So I take it from your decision to respond to my post you're in agreement with Yoshitaka?

Not sure how you drew that conclusion... my comment seems to be entirely non related. Serenity now!

[ballpoint]

mca, where is your Thaksin avatar? I miss his sunny disposition.

You're confusing mca with mc2. It was he who had the square faced avatar. Now, where's the similarly shaped smiley?

[brahmburgers]

I agree, a bit more background on the poll might be helpful in assessing it.

Popularity shopuhilarity.

Wonder Bread, besides being the most popular bread in the US (decades ago) was also the least nutritious bread one could buy at that time.

Kao soi (regular white rice) is the most popular carb eaten in SE Asia, but it's arguably the least nutritious type of rice.

Both Wonder bread and Kao Soi would be better used to make paste for paper mache for kindergarteners.

.....so much for the word 'popular.'

[animatic]

Add Pop Music to 'Popular', not meaning 'good' in any sense.

Abhisit may be no Barbabra Streisand,

but Chalerm can't even attempt Britany Spears.

And Chavalit could barely do Dame Edna Everage...

Edited October 29, 2009 by animatic

[Bagwan]

Add Pop Music to 'Popular', not meaning 'good' in any sense.

And Chavalit could barely do Dame Edna Everage...

1. My agreement is total.

2. I guess his Sir Les Patterson would be pretty accurate.

[Ricardo]

And Chavalit could barely do Dame Edna Everage...

Please, I had a mouth full of coffee, when I read this !

But it is nice to know who Thaksin/PTP's Head-Jester is !

[tig28]

To those who talk about Abhisit being a military puppet and still talk about appointing national police chief - how can you possibly ignore the fact staring in your face - Abhisit pushed for his candidate AGAINST the army preferred choice?

Hi Plus

And failed to carry the day! Yet again ! This is becoming habitual with the well intentioned but obviously very weak, Abhisit. This thread is not debating the amount of control the Army chooses to exhibit over Abhisit (occasionally he is permitted to put forward his own wishes ... as they are so easily changed at the behest of the real power.)

The problem -- which substantiates the claims of 'nil' leadership -- arises when the Army Generals feel that what Abhisit has "decided" does not suit them.

I genuinely feel for Abhisit. I would very much like to see him become 'his own man' ---- as this Government is the only hope for a decent resolution for all the current problems besetting the nation. But with the "cobbled together" Government unable to actually "govern" this ,I fear, is a somewhat forlorn hope!

Sadly (for example) I remember the bold Government announcement on 23/12/2008 that they were disbanding SBPAC (Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre ) --the militarily controlled aid agency intended to provide non-military assistance to the trouble plagued South. SBPAC Has been continually tarnished with allegations of immense and ongoing corruption. Whilst it is only alleged to be the Armys third or fourth biggest cash cow--- they really do like it!

The replacement body was to be headed by the PM or his deputy.

Some 2 weeks later Army chief Anupong Paojinda announced direct to the press .... that after he had discussed this with the Government ..... these plans had been changed. He did not even bother to allow a presence of independence or governmental dignity by permitting the powerless to announce their own backdown. Sad really.

So to the rabidly anti-Thaksin warriors for justice out there -- I suggest you remove the blinkers and look around --- just because Thaksin is a villain etc. ---- that does not automatically make his every view wrong.

Sadly for Thailand the real power in this country does not rest with the Government.

[Payboy]

While PM Thaksin consistently spoke to the world as if he were speaking to the peasants of Issan. He's arrogant, condesending and in a word rich.

Well, Thaksin seems to have more allies around the world than any other Prime Minister.

His claim to be good friends with both George Bush and Tony Blair speaks for itself ! Has-beens to a man !

Thaksin and Bush Sr. were both board members of Carlyle equity group. I remember that Bush Sr. privately attended Thaksins birthday bash in Bangkok some years ago.

[Publicus]

While PM Thaksin consistently spoke to the world as if he were speaking to the peasants of Issan. He's arrogant, condesending and in a word rich.

Well, Thaksin seems to have more allies around the world than any other Prime Minister.

His claim to be good friends with both George Bush and Tony Blair speaks for itself ! Has-beens to a man !

Thaksin and Bush Sr. were both board members of Carlyle equity group. I remember that Bush Sr. privately attended Thaksins birthday bash in Bangkok some years ago.

Thaksin couldn't get into the United States even if he tried to put a hot air balloon into the eye of a hurricane.

Ahbisit conversely has become chums with Pres Obama. The two again will be side by side in Singapore in a couple of weeks. Abhisit will emerge from the Asean-US meetings further boosted. Meanwhile Thaksin will be advising the statesman Hun Sen on the economics of Cambodia as a wholey owned subsidiary of Thaksin-Thailand Holdings Inc.

BTW, who's this Tony Blair guy, anyway??? I wouldn't try to sell Blair short, however, as I hear he's tight with the Pope lately.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Publicus

[Rumfoord]

To those who talk about Abhisit being a military puppet and still talk about appointing national police chief - how can you possibly ignore the fact staring in your face - Abhisit pushed for his candidate AGAINST the army preferred choice?

Hi Plus

And failed to carry the day! Yet again ! This is becoming habitual with the well intentioned but obviously very weak, Abhisit. This thread is not debating the amount of control the Army chooses to exhibit over Abhisit (occasionally he is permitted to put forward his own wishes ... as they are so easily changed at the behest of the real power.)

don't feed the troll. he has left the building.

[jayboy]

To those who talk about Abhisit being a military puppet and still talk about appointing national police chief - how can you possibly ignore the fact staring in your face - Abhisit pushed for his candidate AGAINST the army preferred choice?

Hi Plus

And failed to carry the day! Yet again ! This is becoming habitual with the well intentioned but obviously very weak, Abhisit. This thread is not debating the amount of control the Army chooses to exhibit over Abhisit (occasionally he is permitted to put forward his own wishes ... as they are so easily changed at the behest of the real power.)

don't feed the troll. he has left the building.

Rubbish.Plus is far from being a troll (though I hardly ever agree with him) and he is bang right on Abhisit's position on the police appontment.

[Publicus]

Each day Abhisit continues in office makes Thaksin feel more helpless and his Reds more frustrated. We know how many people expected Abhisit to last weeks, not months, yet the quiet tiger continues to slip out of political corners and to claw back in the corridors and offices of Government House.

Abhisit got a lift after he returned from the US where among other significant interacting he earned his photo with Pres Obama. Next Abhisit will be co-charing the Asean-US meet in Singapore from which he'll emerge significantly boosted. In between the Asean meeting in Hua Hin came off without any hitches altho Hun Sen and Thaksin together did all they could to make loud noises. Odd to say, these days political noise is a win if only because, as we previously witnessed in Pattaya, political violence is so much worse to everyone.

Baby steps can soon lead to a more normal pace of forward motion.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Publicus

[Rumfoord]

Rubbish.Plus is far from being a troll (though I hardly ever agree with him)

i just tried to blend in. i know it isn't 100% correct but "troll" is the habitual choice of words on this board to describe thoses members who have been forced to leave the building.

[animatic]

troll

"I'm too grown up to flame you for that asinine comment."

You troll for fish by dragging a line behind a boat, in front of the fish's mouths.

You troll for amusing flames by posting flamebait in likely groups.

flame "I didn't like what you said." See fascist and Nazi.

A personal, ad hominem attack. Back in 1959, Xerox PARC

(which invented computers but couldn't figure out how to get credit for it) had a program called The Emoticon,

which graphically displayed the content of email travelling over a network link.

Logical, rational messages were shown in cool colors like blue and white, while heated,

emotional messages were shown in warm colors like red and yellow.

The flickering, firelike patterns that irate messages created quickly caused them to be dubbed "flames",

and the name stuck

.

flamebait

"You don't really think I'm going to respond to that again, do you?"

To try to provoke a flame (or, even better, a flamewar) by posting provocative comments.

"Evolution", "AIDS", "circumcision", "socialism", "Thaksin", and "Redshirts" are all sure fire flamebait.

Edited October 31, 2009 by animatic

[Rumfoord]

^^ copypasta. without providing a link to the source, bad netiquette.

© 1996, Imho, Otoh, and Bozo's Guide To Net.Speak http://www.midnightbeach.com/iob/

(came without the silly edits in colour of course)

[rixalex]

don't feed the troll. he has left the building.

Rubbish.Plus is far from being a troll (though I hardly ever agree with him) and he is bang right on Abhisit's position on the police appontment.

"Awesome" Rumfoord was right about one thing however. Plus has indeed left the building. With a few notable exceptions, i find it sad when long-standing members, of whatever orientation (talking political not sexual), get removed from the site.

Edited October 31, 2009 by rixalex

[Rumfoord]

"Awesome" Rumfoord was right about one thing however. Plus has indeed left the building. With a few notable exceptions, i find it sad when long-standing members, of whatever orientation (talking political not sexual), get removed from the site.

i agree with you here. no reason to get happy or sad, with a few notable exceptions, when users of whatever orientation are forced to leave. plus was one of the usual suspects who did at least had a little bit knowledge and somekind of political opinion that wasn't based purely on überemotional Thaksin hate. his stance was in itself coherent and he rather prefered to be 'wise' and silent in a couple of occassions.

the irony of it is that one of the few notable exceptions tried very hard to established the term troll for those of opposite orientation and such labelling was/is welcome by the hoi polloi, the usual suspects and a forced leave of others got celebrated by them.

in this case, let us remember plus for his own words:

A bit similar to Thaivisa - great many trolls and flamers claim that they've been banned for expressing different views, instead of flaming and trolling.

[hammered]

It seems lots of threads end up well off topic right now.

Guess nobody in these parts has a view on Thaksin/Abhisit and leadership

[TAWP]

Rubbish.Plus is far from being a troll (though I hardly ever agree with him)

i just tried to blend in. i know it isn't 100% correct but "troll" is the habitual choice of words on this board to describe thoses members who have been forced to leave the building.

Nonsense, no-one amongst the long-term posters has ever used that mislabeling term. A troll is someone who posts to evoke emotions and enjoys ravid responses, often without the deep connection to the subject at all, unlike displayed in the passionate post that was used to start the flood with...

[Steve2UK]

It seems lots of threads end up well off topic right now.

Guess nobody in these parts has a view on Thaksin/Abhisit and leadership

On the first comment - yes, I agree........ same old knee-jerk tit-for-tat responses recycled ad nauseam.

FWIW, I don't think there has been "leadership" as such since Thaksin's time as PM - which is not intended as a pro-Thaksin statement but merely an objective assessment of what we've seen from the four* figurehead holders of the title in the last three years. General Surayud - front-man installed by the junta; Samak - self-confessed surrogate for Thaksin; Somchai - no such confession that I recall but few doubt that it was more of the same; now Abhisit as titular PM of "his government of custom-made circumstances" in Thitinan's phrasing.

Four figureheads in succession. Sad to say, that leads me to think that "leadership" is low on the list of real-world (realpolitik, if you like) requirements for the post-coup role for the next PM......... certainly lower than being acceptable to - and compliant with the wishes of - the powers-that-be. With notions of at least the desirable appearance of reconciliation in mind, perhaps one should add "looks harmless" and "not too much baggage" to the list. All of which relegates "leadership" to a lowly quality - and maybe even a disqualification for the office.......

* Not counting Chaovarat.

[Publicus]

FWIW, I don't think there has been "leadership" as such since Thaksin's time as PM - which is not intended as a pro-Thaksin statement but merely an objective assessment of what we've seen from the four* figurehead holders of the title in the last three years. General Surayud - front-man installed by the junta; Samak - self-confessed surrogate for Thaksin; Somchai - no such confession that I recall but few doubt that it was more of the same; now Abhisit as titular PM of "his government of custom-made circumstances" in Thitinan's phrasing.

Four figureheads in succession. Sad to say, that leads me to think that "leadership" is low on the list of real-world (realpolitik, if you like) requirements for the post-coup role for the next PM......... certainly lower than being acceptable to - and compliant with the wishes of - the powers-that-be. With notions of at least the desirable appearance of reconciliation in mind, perhaps one should add "looks harmless" and "not too much baggage" to the list. All of which relegates "leadership" to a lowly quality - and maybe even a disqualification for the office.......

* Not counting Chaovarat.

Thaksin led the bulls through the China shop or, perhaps appropriate in its own particularly Thai way, led the baddest boys on the block through the candy store. They raided the same candy store regularly and repeatedly, driving its elderly owner to resigned frustration. So a hanging judge finally sent Thaksin up the river big time, but the unquestioned leader of the pack continues to manipulate his baddest of the bad who are still back home menacing everyone on the block of the old neighborhood.

Thaksin is divisive, always controversial in the extreme. In contrast, and reflecting present realities both global and domestic, Abhisit needs to provide a calming influence or to be a balm of sorts to the open wounds of Thai society which Thaksin identified as never before. Instead of healing the wounds however, Thaskin bled the wounds and cut deeper into them thus exacerbating a situation which could have been more democratically and rationally addressed.

As Pres Obama must get out the mop to clean the mess left by his predecessor, so Abhisit must provide both cleaning and nursing services to the people and to the society itself. The elderly proprietor is unable to do so. Anyway, who in Thailand since the 1932 revolution ever has been a leader, a leader who not only is competent, but who also is transformational? That is the unanswered need the country has, and it remains outstanding as no one can be identified as able to provide the need.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Publicus

[rixalex]

the irony of it is that one of the few notable exceptions tried very hard to established the term troll for those of opposite orientation and such labelling was/is welcome by the hoi polloi, the usual suspects and a forced leave of others got celebrated by them.

Another irony is that the person you refer to left the building before you became a member. That member's bugbear was banned members returning under new aliases, something i think you of all people will agree as being a real problem for this forum.

Back on topic, i think that Abhisit's time in office and his ability to lead is a hard thing to judge because of both the circumstances he came to power and the distractions he has had to deal with. If, and a big "if", the distractions disappear and if he can win the next general election, we might get a better idea of his capabilities.

[Thai at Heart]

the irony of it is that one of the few notable exceptions tried very hard to established the term troll for those of opposite orientation and such labelling was/is welcome by the hoi polloi, the usual suspects and a forced leave of others got celebrated by them.

Another irony is that the person you refer to left the building before you became a member. That member's bugbear was banned members returning under new aliases, something i think you of all people will agree as being a real problem for this forum.

Back on topic, i think that Abhisit's time in office and his ability to lead is a hard thing to judge because of both the circumstances he came to power and the distractions he has had to deal with. If, and a big "if", the distractions disappear and if he can win the next general election, we might get a better idea of his capabilities.

Cue protest that Abhisit is the most legitimate, of legitimately appointed legitimate frontmen that have ever had the privilege of being legitimately voted for (after considerable amounts of perfectly legitimate civil unrest including a purely legitimate siege on government house, plus various other buildings culminating in the absolutely legitimate closure of Survananbhumi airport) and accepting the legitimately voted legitimate latest constitution, (which was voted for under the control of the (il)legitimate CNS, which needed to change the constitution to become legitimate anyway) PM's that Thailand has ever had.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Thaksin is divisive, always controversial in the extreme.

<snip>

And still much loved in the north of Thailand.

[Publicus]

<snip>

Thaksin is divisive, always controversial in the extreme.

<snip>

And still much loved in the north of Thailand.

Loved in denominations of 500 Bt especially.

The guy's divisive. He creates cleavage in society. Thaksin is too much despised by too many people to be even remotely effective at government, much less accepted as legitimate.

Thaksin needs to buy back his sold corporation in Singapore to show he's interested in Thailand and its people rather than in lining his own pockets. Thaksin needs to pay the taxes on that sale and on the repurchase herein proposed to show he cares about the country and its people, that he doesn't consider himself and his cronies and family above the law.

Or at a minimum Thaksin needs to express his regret and apologies for the sale to Temesek of Singapore and to pay the taxes on the proceeds of the sale. Otherwise, no one can believe Thaksin has the interests of the country and its people in his thoughts and in his heart. Short of admitting wrongdoing in this particular matter, Thaksin cannot be viewed as having the best interests of the country at the forefront of his single minded determination to return to LOS.

Thaksin has the enormous burden of convincing Thais that he can and shall rule with fairness, wisdon, compassion, justice.

Remember, where there's love who needs money???

Edited October 31, 2009 by Publicus