Who Says Cm Property Isn't Selling

[chiang mai]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

Being that farangs are not allowed under the law to purchase or own real property in Thailand, the notion that the these sellers were "western farang expats" and that a farang is in the market to make a purchase is somewhat of a joke. Don't you think?

I've replied to this point in a separate post you made but have just spotted this one, my suspicion being that you've not been here long have you and if you have you've not been paying attention.

[Drew Aitch]

Real Estate Agents have a Reputation Akin to a Dodgy Used Car Salesman

But just like the used car salesman, it is the few that tarnish the reputation of the many. Estate agencies don't always cost you more money. In actual fact, if they are genuine and care anything about customer relations and reputation building, they can actually get you a better deal than if you cut them out and dealt directly with the owner.

Yes, I have some authority on the subject, as I'm the webmaster of MrRoomfinder dot com, but I'm not an agent of any description nor do I get directly involved with buyers, tenants or private landlords. Additionally, i'm not sticking up for the shenanigans that goes on in real estate, but sometimes it's healthy to add a little positivity to negative conversation. After all, anyone can moan and groan right? Complaining doesn't take any special skills or occupational qualifications. Anyone can do it, and most people do, because it's easy! Others do it to forewarn their fellows if they feel they too could learn from, or heed their warnings, but in general this is done less so than a quick fire gripe!

I've been contacted personally a lot over the past 5 years with complaints about agents, troublesome tenants, buyers and sellers, and the bottom line is that no one trusts anyone in this game, or at the very least are wary about anything to do with property dealings. (This is definitely not something that is unique to Thailand, as some of you will know).

Anyway, just on the agency thing, below is an extract from an article i wrote some time ago which might put a little balanced perspective back into what many see as a shady business practice. It's basically about renting, but the same principles can be applied to property sales.

Often, a private owner, especially an inexperienced one, will attempt to rent out his property in Bangkok (or elsewhere) using his own resources so as to save on agency fees. He is quite often over ambitious with his expectations for rent. After a few months without any luck he reluctantly seeks out the services of a letting agency to see if they can do any better. Here, they often inform him that to make his Bangkok property more desirable, he needs to spend a few thousand Baht on a bit of fresh painting, wash away the mildew from the bathroom walls, get rid of any tacky or broken furniture, fix the broken window, and sling a bit of bleach in the bog before showing any more potential tenants around the place.

The greedy landlord may point out that he can’t afford to .....

The Thai real estate agent may also inform him that he’s asking well over the top for this property type. The greedy landlord may point out that he can’t afford to let it go any cheaper. The agent may reply to this by highlighting the amount of months his vacant property has already lost him by sitting empty, and if he doesn’t do something soon, it will most likely remain in this unoccupied state indefinitely.

A plan is then drawn up, the agent takes over the management of his apartment, and the property soon reappears back on the market cleaner, smarter and cheaper than before.

Full Piece can be read here

Aitch

Edited October 17, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[scorecard]

I'm hoping to buy a house in CM about 6 moths from now.

Can other TV members please share from information and 'warnings'. I've bought/sold houses before in other countries and in Bangkok but I'm interested to see what's 'typical' in CM:

- Whats the typical sales commision percentage agents charge? (And is there any known or local regulations about the percentage.)

2. Who typically pays the commission: seller, buyer, 50/50?

3. Any other 'charges' that typically 'pop-up'?

4. What's the typical charges at the CM Land Titles Office? Is additional 'tea money' typical? (Asking this question because fees seem to change a bit by location in Thailand)

5. Who typically pays the Lands title charges?

6. Is it difficult to transact a sale without an agent (mostly in terms of the formal hand over of the funds and at same time ensuring seller signs over titles etc?

7. Any other comments or 'warnings' greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[cmsally]

One thing I have been told by agents here is that transfer fee for condos on a higher floor is more than that for a lower floor.

Is that poss? I don't have experience of condos in CM only BKK and as far as I'm aware its not the case there.

[chiang mai]

One thing I have been told by agents here is that transfer fee for condos on a higher floor is more than that for a lower floor.

Is that poss? I don't have experience of condos in CM only BKK and as far as I'm aware its not the case there.

No that's not so, I have sold condo's on floors six and sixteen and the transfer fee was the same for both. But it's a lovely line though and the lad gets nine out of ten for creativity.

[chiang mai]

I'm hoping to buy a house in CM about 6 moths from now.

Can other TV members please share from information and 'warnings'. I've bought/sold houses before in other countries and in Bangkok but I'm interested to see what's 'typical' in CM:

- Whats the typical sales commision percentage agents charge? (And is there any known or local regulations about the percentage.)

Typical commission is 3%

2. Who typically pays the commission: seller, buyer, 50/50?

In my experience this has always been paid by the seller.

3. Any other 'charges' that typically 'pop-up'?

Two taxes to be paid by the seller based on length of time the unit was owned and the value at sale time versus the purchase cost. Also a transfer fee which typically, in my experience, is split between buyer and seller.

4. What's the typical charges at the CM Land Titles Office? Is additional 'tea money' typical? (Asking this question because fees seem to change a bit by location in Thailand)

None, in my experience.

5. Who typically pays the Lands title charges?

See transfer charges above

6. Is it difficult to transact a sale without an agent (mostly in terms of the formal hand over of the funds and at same time ensuring seller signs over titles etc?

No but it's always wise to have a lawyer to ensure the contract and the process is robust.

7. Any other comments or 'warnings' greatly appreciated.

I have always made my contracts on the basis of the buyer must buy and the seller must sell with equal penalties on both sides, it helps stop people changing their minds or changing the price at a later date. Don't forget to pro rate maintenance fees and make sure you have a letter from the Condo manager stating that all bills are current.

Thanks

[cmsally]

Exactly what I thought. That was from one of the more "creative " agents I have met; actually a lady.

Seems my first impressions weren't wrong!

[cmsally]

Regarding buying a condo is it normal practice to ask if utility bills are paid up and to ask for proof of this. That is on top of the maintenance fee.

Then I suppose the same as land/house check to make sure it hasn't been lodged with a money lender or bank as collateral on a loan.

[chiang mai]

Regarding buying a condo is it normal practice to ask if utility bills are paid up and to ask for proof of this. That is on top of the maintenance fee.

Then I suppose the same as land/house check to make sure it hasn't been lodged with a money lender or bank as collateral on a loan.

Indeed it is accepted practice.

[Gold2005]

Try Stephan at satihoga.com Very nice man and helped alot of people find property. People always talk nicely about him and recommend him.

[jsflynn603]

The property market is pretty much dead as Thais (IMHO) don't like to make a capital loss.

A house near me, they want 12,000bth pcm rental or 4,000,000bht sale ...... (it should be 3,000,000bht)

No chance of selling at that price, but it should rent for about 10k

In the US, for the past 50 years the rule of thumb has always been that a property should sell for about 100x monthly income. I have an apartment house, its income is $2400/month and it's sale value is about $200k. That is about 84x monthly income. Over the past several decades it has generally been worth on the retail market about 100x monthly income.

At 4 mil baht that turns out to be about 333x monthly income or over 3x what a comparable (retail value/monthly income ratio) American apartment house sells for. Yikes!

[runker]

real estate agents (term used loosely) here seem to have the same schooling/training as the local whiskey shop vendors. They woke up one morning with an idea of how to make money. In the former case a small cash investment was required while in the latter the local gossip committee puts them on to a potential customer (buyer or seller) they take either, and offer their acquaintances a portion of commission if they point them to other potential customers. The more learned get on the internet and try to do a deal with individuals who are in the market, either way. It is not unheard of for the sellers asking price to be inflated so as the excess monies will revert to them. The statement above "strange business real estate" may qualify as the understatement of the week.

My wife is selling some land in CM and is having her lawyer brother handle the sale. In responding to an offer on the land she wanted another half million to close the deal. She's paying her brother 3% from the sale. He asked her if he could get more than what she is asking if he could keep that. No, was her reply.

[Dean1953]

I moved back to the U.S. last October, while my wife's 3 children finish school here. The youngest one will start college (hopefully) in 6 years and the plan is to move back to Thailand with our youngest child, who is 2 year old next month. I have a fairly new house just outside of C.M. (the land is in my wife's name and I have a 30 year lease on it and will transfer land title to my son when he turns 15) that I don't want to sell but would like to rent it out, perferably on a one year (or longer) lease. Its been listed here for several months and I've had 3 persons enquire about renting it, but no takers yet. Its listed on several other Thai forums but those listings haven't produced any enquires. Its a large teak house (4 bedrooms/3 baths) on a large piece of enclosed land, which has been landscaped. The last comment that I had from a potential renter was it was too large for he and his wife and they would have to hire a gardener and a housekeeper to live there. It does state in my ads the size of the house/grounds. Would I have better luck listing it through a real estate company, since the persons that I am looking for to rent it would be a husband and wife and a couple of kids? Are these the type of people that would use an agency to find their house?

[zippydedodah]

I moved back to the U.S. last October, while my wife's 3 children finish school here. The youngest one will start college (hopefully) in 6 years and the plan is to move back to Thailand with our youngest child, who is 2 year old next month. I have a fairly new house just outside of C.M. (the land is in my wife's name and I have a 30 year lease on it and will transfer land title to my son when he turns 15) that I don't want to sell but would like to rent it out, perferably on a one year (or longer) lease. Its been listed here for several months and I've had 3 persons enquire about renting it, but no takers yet. Its listed on several other Thai forums but those listings haven't produced any enquires. Its a large teak house (4 bedrooms/3 baths) on a large piece of enclosed land, which has been landscaped. The last comment that I had from a potential renter was it was too large for he and his wife and they would have to hire a gardener and a housekeeper to live there. It does state in my ads the size of the house/grounds. Would I have better luck listing it through a real estate company, since the persons that I am looking for to rent it would be a husband and wife and a couple of kids? Are these the type of people that would use an agency to find their house?

an agency would be one way to go, i suppose. I don't know if they have "exclusives" to listings here, as they do in the States.

another way might be to put it up on the boards at international schools and out at Rimping Market in Mae Jo... lots of expat actions in both places. We just moved here and we went with a recommended agency, which worked out great for us. I don't feel that we paid more than necessary and we found our home in one day (wife, SIL and one child - 3 bedroom home, but i wanted a 4). Anyways, turns out that 3 other teachers and 2 families at the school (CMIS) found homes also through this same agency... so yes, agencies can work well.

[jagi00]

What's the agent's typical commission for selling a property?

[chiang mai]

What's the agent's typical commission for selling a property?

Typically 3%.