As Long As 'double Pricing' Not Eliminated Should Gov Better Not Worry About The Giant Number Of Lost Tourists ?

[barky]

Yah, double pricing is the main reason why I spend my winters in Thailand rather than some place like New Zealand or Australia. I can rent a nice room in a Chiang Mai hotel for $200 a month. In New Zealand it costs me $1500 a month. In Sydney it costs me closer to $2000 for a similar hotel. It's even cheaper than staying home in Canada and paying the heating bill in the home I own.

Oh, and that lovely Thai meal that costs me $14.95 in a Canadian restaurant I have to pay $1.50 for in a Thailand cafe.

Yup, I love that double pricing.

This counter argument is irrelevant.

[toptuan]

A National Park is owned by the Thai people. I know if I was a shareholder in a tourist attraction I would expect a discounted entry fee.

Would you consider a taxpayer a shareholder? For example, someone who pays 3 times more taxes than the average person in his Thai city? Those taxes subsidize those parks, mind you.

[thaihome]

[...This practice is racist! Do you support racism?

It may be economic profiling, but it is not racist in itself. They really couldn’t care less if you are Caucasian or not, what they care about is you have money and they use your white skin to identify you as such. If we all looked the same, they would base it on something else, like the clothes you wear or the language you speak.

Besides, if there is an expat fitting your description, the chances are he is getting local price anyway at virtually every place with few exceptions.

TH

[IanForbes]

Yah, double pricing is the main reason why I spend my winters in Thailand rather than some place like New Zealand or Australia. I can rent a nice room in a Chiang Mai hotel for $200 a month. In New Zealand it costs me $1500 a month. In Sydney it costs me closer to $2000 for a similar hotel. It's even cheaper than staying home in Canada and paying the heating bill in the home I own.

Oh, and that lovely Thai meal that costs me $14.95 in a Canadian restaurant I have to pay $1.50 for in a Thailand cafe.

Yup, I love that double pricing.

This counter argument is irrelevant.

Not really. I'm just pointing out that Thailand is still a relatively inexpensive country to live in and enjoy all that it offers. One over priced item balances out with something less expensive. It is easy to complain about everything that isn't quite fair. The small added cost of what a farang pays for a National park visit, when compared to what a Thai pays, hardly has any bearing on tourism. I don't worry too much about the price of things. If I can afford it I pay the asking price. If I think it is too expensive I don't buy. Quite simple really. It's no different than purchasing a shirt in Chiang Mai for 500 baht when I can buy the identical shirt in Pattaya for 300 baht. And, a Thai might be able to get the same shirt for 200 baht.

As a general rule, most farangs have more disposible income than Thais. Everything is taken in averages. It costs a certain amount to maintain a National park or zoo. The managers try to balance the price of admission to the demand and what it costs to maintain. It would be unfair to ask poor Thais to pay the full amount if foreigners are willing to spend money to visit the park and not worry about the added cost.

I understand that there are many foreign expats living on low wages and hate having to pay the added cost, but that is part and parcel with living in Thailand. I don't think it's fair that a foreigner can't buy land, But I understand the reason why.

We don't really have double pricing in Canada (other than Quebec) but there are many things to complain about. We have the National Parks board blocking off huge areas and then charge people to park their cars. And, that is over and above the price of stopping in the National park. It's got nothing to do with fair, and has everything to do with finances.

[SpoliaOpima]

Two-tiered pricing has nothing to do with the dent in numbers, and abolishing the system would have no effect, IMO.

[SpoliaOpima]

Yah, double pricing is the main reason why I spend my winters in Thailand rather than some place like New Zealand or Australia. I can rent a nice room in a Chiang Mai hotel for $200 a month. In New Zealand it costs me $1500 a month. In Sydney it costs me closer to $2000 for a similar hotel. It's even cheaper than staying home in Canada and paying the heating bill in the home I own.

Oh, and that lovely Thai meal that costs me $14.95 in a Canadian restaurant I have to pay $1.50 for in a Thailand cafe.

Yup, I love that double pricing.

This counter argument is irrelevant.

Not really. I'm just pointing out that Thailand is still a relatively inexpensive country to live in and enjoy all that it offers. One over priced item balances out with something less expensive. It is easy to complain about everything that isn't quite fair. The small added cost of what a farang pays for a National park visit, when compared to what a Thai pays, hardly has any bearing on tourism. I don't worry too much about the price of things. If I can afford it I pay the asking price. If I think it is too expensive I don't buy. Quite simple really. It's no different than purchasing a shirt in Chiang Mai for 500 baht when I can buy the identical shirt in Pattaya for 300 baht. And, a Thai might be able to get the same shirt for 200 baht.

As a general rule, most farangs have more disposible income than Thais. Everything is taken in averages. It costs a certain amount to maintain a National park or zoo. The managers try to balance the price of admission to the demand and what it costs to maintain. It would be unfair to ask poor Thais to pay the full amount if foreigners are willing to spend money to visit the park and not worry about the added cost.

I understand that there are many foreign expats living on low wages and hate having to pay the added cost, but that is part and parcel with living in Thailand. I don't think it's fair that a foreigner can't buy land, But I understand the reason why.

We don't really have double pricing in Canada (other than Quebec) but there are many things to complain about. We have the National Parks board blocking off huge areas and then charge people to park their cars. And, that is over and above the price of stopping in the National park. It's got nothing to do with fair, and has everything to do with finances.

I agree. Not irrelevant at all. Cost of living/travel is the most relevant. The 'principle of the matter' is irrelevant to most tourists.

[phibunmike]

A National Park is owned by the Thai people. I know if I was a shareholder in a tourist attraction I would expect a discounted entry fee.

Would you consider a taxpayer a shareholder? For example, someone who pays 3 times more taxes than the average person in his Thai city? Those taxes subsidize those parks, mind you.

I agree that the implementation is not well thought through, and is applied inconsistantly. I have no problem with the underlying principal.

[JR Texas]

As long as the sun shines and the bars are open and Farangs can come to Thailand and have a good time, tourism will not be affected by National Parks charging Thai people less.

Just don't go, it's not rocket science, but even if Thailand made national park entrances free for Farangs, there would be a host of other complaints , whinges and whines from the usual suspects on this and other forums.

Thailand just can't win no matter what the policy is, you'll always find something to bitch about, jeeeez.

I bet all you moaners would be queueing at the gates of National Parks all over Thailand if you could save a few baht, right ?

I wonder how many here complain about poor people turning to prostitution when they are having their nuts groped by some poor girl ? Not many I'll bet, of course you'll accept that cos it's benificial to you right ?

Just stop the freekin' whining, JRTexas, why do you post on this forum, you can't possibly live in Thailand or if you have ever been you can't ever be going back, all you do is whine about how bad things are, or are you continuouslly moaning about all the injustices cos you care so much about the country you love to hate ?

Nice to see you again Have a nice day

[wilsongbrown]

I've learned to try to buy where the locals know me. This goes some way (most of the time) to ensure I will get the fair price. The price set for all, regardless of skin colour.

It creeps me out when I think of when I was first here and there you'd get the some smiling vendor handing you your purchases and thinking 'I'm smiling at you like I'm being friendly, but I'm charging you more because you're White'.

By the by, the places always brought up in these threads - Siam World, the zoos, etc, are visited by an awful lot of middle class to wealthy Thais also. You don't see many poor Thais there. They can't afford the bloody bus fare.

As to putting off tourists, I don't believe it does. It just leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. Better the vendor's more honest about ripping you off and act surly. Bit like Bali.

Edited October 28, 2009 by wilsongbrown

[wilsongbrown]

Yah, double pricing is the main reason why I spend my winters in Thailand rather than some place like New Zealand or Australia. I can rent a nice room in a Chiang Mai hotel for $200 a month. In New Zealand it costs me $1500 a month. In Sydney it costs me closer to $2000 for a similar hotel. It's even cheaper than staying home in Canada and paying the heating bill in the home I own.

Oh, and that lovely Thai meal that costs me $14.95 in a Canadian restaurant I have to pay $1.50 for in a Thailand cafe.

Yup, I love that double pricing.

This counter argument is irrelevant.

Not really. I'm just pointing out that Thailand is still a relatively inexpensive country to live in and enjoy all that it offers. One over priced item balances out with something less expensive. It is easy to complain about everything that isn't quite fair. The small added cost of what a farang pays for a National park visit, when compared to what a Thai pays, hardly has any bearing on tourism. I don't worry too much about the price of things. If I can afford it I pay the asking price. If I think it is too expensive I don't buy. Quite simple really. It's no different than purchasing a shirt in Chiang Mai for 500 baht when I can buy the identical shirt in Pattaya for 300 baht. And, a Thai might be able to get the same shirt for 200 baht.

As a general rule, most farangs have more disposible income than Thais. Everything is taken in averages. It costs a certain amount to maintain a National park or zoo. The managers try to balance the price of admission to the demand and what it costs to maintain. It would be unfair to ask poor Thais to pay the full amount if foreigners are willing to spend money to visit the park and not worry about the added cost.

I understand that there are many foreign expats living on low wages and hate having to pay the added cost, but that is part and parcel with living in Thailand. I don't think it's fair that a foreigner can't buy land, But I understand the reason why.

We don't really have double pricing in Canada (other than Quebec) but there are many things to complain about. We have the National Parks board blocking off huge areas and then charge people to park their cars. And, that is over and above the price of stopping in the National park. It's got nothing to do with fair, and has everything to do with finances.

I don't see that the perception by THAIS of farang having more disposable income than them (not true in many instances here on Phuket for starters) has anything whatsoever to do with being charged more?!

And if your comment about zoo and park maintenance alludes to Thais paying taxes and therefore should be allowed a lower entrance fee - Well what about the zoos, parks, etc in the West? None of the tourists to these countries have contributed directly to any of these country's tax budget, so why shouldn't the UK for instance charge Thais and nationals other than British, more? Or is this yet another case of inverted racism and patronization?

[mrtoad]

As for the topic: I guess we were due another version of this particular gripe.

And due for one of my responses also Mr T.

The thread wouldn't be complete without your response.

[citizen33]

I concede that this probably doesn't put off many tourists but it is certainly one factor that makes me feel more negative about Thailand. We've been round this particular circle so many times it hardly seems worth trotting out the usual arguments. All I would say is that the man who said the rumoured £50 flight tax rise makes double pricing look insignificant, hasn't sussed out what is going on in many Thai hotels. I recently discovered that an hotel I'd been using for years, thinking I was getting a bargain internet price, gives any Thai inquirer a delux room for several hundred baht per night less than I was paying for a superior room. At least my wife took some pleasure when she pointed out my naivety. And before anybody goes on about the insiders never using hotels, yes I (really my wife) have had a house in Thailand for nearly 10 years, but we like to move around.

[Geckos]

I have a business here and my double pricing go's to the Thai's !! Everything in my shop has a price tag and when a Farang wants to buy something I tell him everything is 50% off the price and when a Thai wants to buy something they have to pay FULL PRICE !! I love it because most of my costumers are THAI

What go's around comes around and some Thais have heard me telling the Farang they get 50% off and when they ask why they don't I tell them because their Thai and if they don't like it they can GO SOME WHERE ELSE !!! I have never had a problem and I've been here 12 years !!

[yabaaaa]

I concede that this probably doesn't put off many tourists but it is certainly one factor that makes me feel more negative about Thailand. We've been round this particular circle so many times it hardly seems worth trotting out the usual arguments. All I would say is that the man who said the rumoured £50 flight tax rise makes double pricing look insignificant, hasn't sussed out what is going on in many Thai hotels. I recently discovered that an hotel I'd been using for years, thinking I was getting a bargain internet price, gives any Thai inquirer a delux room for several hundred baht per night less than I was paying for a superior room. At least my wife took some pleasure when she pointed out my naivety. And before anybody goes on about the insiders never using hotels, yes I (really my wife) have had a house in Thailand for nearly 10 years, but we like to move around.

Heres one King Park Hotel cloes to seacon Square, Thai price 12-1300 a night Farang Price 1800-2100+ welcome to Thailand

[Lancelot]

I'm of two minds about double pricing. One part of me dislikes it since its based on race, not residency. ( I have had some luck with getting the resident price when I show my Thai Drivers License.)

The other part of me thinks "Why not?" Tourists would still flock here if the foreign price was x20 the regular price, so why not make a little profit?

[monkfish]

Completely agree with double pricing, I mean why not? we ferang are so rich we don't know what to do with our money right?

I am often forced to walk down the Soi and hand out 1000bht notes cos I got no place in me pockets.

In fact I wish they would take it further! Introduce it into 7/11, Lotus, Gas Stations and everywhere.

I have to agree your average tourist just won't mind paying $30 to get into SeaWorld after all its still cheaper than back home.

[barky]

I have a business here and my double pricing go's to the Thai's !! Everything in my shop has a price tag and when a Farang wants to buy something I tell him everything is 50% off the price and when a Thai wants to buy something they have to pay FULL PRICE !! I love it because most of my costumers are THAI

What go's around comes around and some Thais have heard me telling the Farang they get 50% off and when they ask why they don't I tell them because their Thai and if they don't like it they can GO SOME WHERE ELSE !!! I have never had a problem and I've been here 12 years !!

[/quote

Hi Gecko, you are kidding right? If true how do you get away with not having some Thai official come along and tell you your policy is racist and try to close you down?

By the way, what do you sell that seemingly Thais will pay double for?

Whilst I don't condone that two wrongs don't make a right (ie price based on race), I can understand tit for tat. One thing for sure all the Thai apologists here will have nothing to say, as, after all, they see no problem with it, (in fact, I think they think it's funny and westeners deserve being ripped off) particularly when westeners are the ones being discriminated against.

[Norrad]

...when ever i have presented my work permit or spoke my limited Thai in all prices i have had Thai prices...

...as for myself i show my Thai driving licence and pay Thai price...

That only works at a few places, try it at the following places and report back:

Grand Palace

Mini Siam

Ripley's

Lumpini Boxing Stadium

Even presenting your work permit, drivers license and tax ID will not get you in at the Thai price.

I have a business here and my double pricing go's to the Thai's !! Everything in my shop has a price tag and when a Farang wants to buy something I tell him everything is 50% off the price and when a Thai wants to buy something they have to pay FULL PRICE !! I love it because most of my costumers are THAI

I saw a sign at a retaurant/pub in Stockholm stating that Thai customers would have to pay an extra service charge on all orders and drinks. Probably a pissed off Swede taking his revenge on the ever growing Thai population there.

On a side note, my wifes friends are starting to note the downside with regards to dual pricing. We were invited to go, with a group of them, to the beach and they wanted to take the train as it's free for Thai's. They got a nasty surprise when they were all charged 60 baht each for their ticket because I was in the group with them. Double pricing struck again when they ordered food on the beach and were charged an inflated fee. The look on their faces was priceless as my wife explained that it happens all the time to us.

[Samuian]

As long as the highly annoying racistic 'double pricing' in natureparks, zoo, doi Suthep etc. not has been eliminated should the gov better not worry about One Million Lost Tourists ? (chiangmai as example)

But if they DO worry about the huge amount of lost income from tourism and DO want to reverse this, isn't it about time to start thinking of the law of Cause And Effect, to start realizing that 'double pricing' could be one of the things that badly damages the countries image, hospitality and show of good moral ?

And may perhaps be of the first (and most easy) bad things to eliminate.

Or perhaps they simply don't worry and maipenrai and accept it as 'shit happens' as it's a traditional habit to maipenrai everything that forces serious thinking ? (the 'chan mi poewot hoewa' effect)

It has NOTHING to do with "double" pricing, most genuine tourist are noteven aware of this arguable practice.....!

[robblok]

Right Ian,

though you'll now be accused of being a rose tinted spectacle wearing Thai apologist......

Dont worry that titel is yours and you cant ever loose it.

I still hate dual pricing and i despise it. Places that do dual pricing just dont see my business and i often tell it to friends and people who want to visit Thailand. I normally dont have much problems with it because i live far from most farang so here they dont have it. Only place that i miss going to at times is bungsamran. Fishing for a thai 400 bt for a farang 1000 bt. My thai friends even commented on it they asked if we caught different fish and tried to embarrass the management.

I do have to say that i doubt it makes much of a dent in the first time tourists, in general only expats or frequent travelers notice it.

Edited October 29, 2009 by robblok

[Lancelot]

I still hate dual pricing and i despise it. Places that do dual pricing just dont see my business and i often tell it to friends and people who want to visit Thailand. I normally dont have much problems with it because i live far from most farang so here they dont have it. Only place that i miss going to at times is bungsamran. Fishing for a thai 400 bt for a farang 1000 bt. My thai friends even commented on it they asked if we caught different fish and tried to embarrass the management.

I do have to say that i doubt it makes much of a dent in the first time tourists, in general only expats or frequent travelers notice it.

I'm with you Rob. Double pricing is oportunistic and simply a way to rip people off. If double pricing was really a legitimate marketing tool, then McDonalds would do it; same for Toyota; Pizza Hut, Volkswagen...

About embarassing the people who double price, it ain't never gona happen because they have no shame

[IanForbes]

I will grant the fact that double pricing isn't really fair. I'll also grant that double pricing is going to piss some people off to a point where they think it's racism. I'll even agree that I don't like double pricing either.

However, considering the OP's topic seemed to be about double pricing affecting the number of tourists coming to Thailand, I don't think it matters one tiny bit.

I DO know, that if you piss off your regular customers then it WILL affect your repeat trade. I don't go to National parks unless I have no other choice when there is something I specifically want to see. It's the same in Canada where I avoid Provincial and Federal Parks like the plague. And, I do so not because I can't afford going. I don't go because of their silly parking restrictions in locations that I originally helped build with volunteer labour. But, when I get visitors coming to Chiang Mai I still take them to the zoo, and up to Doi Suthep and a few other parks that you have to pay to visit.

[Heng]

Clearly it's time for more quality Mexican food eateries in Bangkok and Pattaya.

[Lancelot]

However, considering the OP's topic seemed to be about double pricing affecting the number of tourists coming to Thailand, I don't think it matters one tiny bit.

I agree. Most tourists don't know and/or care and many even defend it

[Gary A]

I don't have problems with the farang premium. If I can't go in at the Thai price by showing my driver's license, I don't go in at all.

In village near our home, I am not allowed to go in some of the stores. If my wife determines the store overcharges this farang, it goes on the "DO NOT PATRONIZE" list. At this point, some of the store owners ask why I don't shop in their store. The answer is that they either tried or did overcharge me when I first moved here. Over the years that has cost them a rather large amount of money.

[Lancelot]

I don't have problems with the farang premium. If I can't go in at the Thai price by showing my driver's license, I don't go in at all.

In village near our home, I am not allowed to go in some of the stores. If my wife determines the store overcharges this farang, it goes on the "DO NOT PATRONIZE" list. At this point, some of the store owners ask why I don't shop in their store. The answer is that they either tried or did overcharge me when I first moved here. Over the years that has cost them a rather large amount of money.

I think you are responding in the right way, in that you don't tolerate being taken advantage of. Your wife is evidence that the decent Thais understand that double pricing is not correct and they deal with it accordingly.

I deal with it in a diferent way, in that I appreciate the Thais demonstrating that I am only tolerated and not really accepted here. Sure has saved me money in that I'm not going to invest my capital in a country where double pricing is institutionalized

[LooseCannon]

I have a business here and my double pricing go's to the Thai's !! Everything in my shop has a price tag and when a Farang wants to buy something I tell him everything is 50% off the price and when a Thai wants to buy something they have to pay FULL PRICE !! I love it because most of my costumers are THAI

What go's around comes around and some Thais have heard me telling the Farang they get 50% off and when they ask why they don't I tell them because their Thai and if they don't like it they can GO SOME WHERE ELSE !!! I have never had a problem and I've been here 12 years !!

Hi Gecko, you are kidding right? If true how do you get away with not having some Thai official come along and tell you your policy is racist and try to close you down?

By the way, what do you sell that seemingly Thais will pay double for?

Whilst I don't condone that two wrongs don't make a right (ie price based on race), I can understand tit for tat. One thing for sure all the Thai apologists here will have nothing to say, as, after all, they see no problem with it, (in fact, I think they think it's funny and westeners deserve being ripped off) particularly when westeners are the ones being discriminated against.

At the risk of being called a 'Thai apologist' by the professional victims of & the congenital whiners about, all things Thai - I do have something to say....

What we've got here is a so called 'businessman' gloating about how he disrespects & insults his main customer base to make a petty protest about a policy that they have no control over & probably are not even aware of. A business operator that holds his customers in contempt with no regard for repeat custom, word of mouth advertising or any of the basics of good service & management - bloody hel_l, the mind boggles.

Sounds like a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' business model implemented by a desperately unhappy & disgruntled farang.

You ask "By the way, what do you sell that seemingly Thais will pay double for?" - By all accounts this is a complete load of bullshit & bears no resemblance to reality. It appeals to & is believed by the usual bunch of malcontents & habitual moaners.Just something to make them feel better about themselves. Look-at-me attention seeker telling us how he f*cks over the Thais.

He states "...I have never had a problem..." - this would be because most of the Thai people I know are gracious & carry themselves with dignity, unlike some puffed up, self-important born-to-rule farangs when faced with a similar situation.

"Hi Gecko, you are kidding right?" - you would like to think so .......

Enough Thai apologia to satisfy you?

(Fixed your formatting for readability)

[barky]

Disagree looseCannon with much of your piece if that's OK by you. Although maybe not good business, if true (yes I doubt it a little too) it is his business.

You say that he disrespects and insults his customers, and not mindful of repeat business. You mean exactly like Thais do to westeners, or is it OK for them and not reciprocal? So, you accept not only double pricing for visitors to the country but double standards too. A great way to treat the "guests".

I am against duel pricing for westeners in principle, not because I can't afford the premium, it's because I believe it wrong.

I don't believe for one minute that all Thais are not aware of this nationally accepted policy of charging westeners a premium (although not practiced in all places). They see nothing wrong with it , however, I am equally sure that if they were on the receiving end of racially biased pricing, they would squeel like stuffed pigs.

And, as voters, if Thais don't have control over it, who does?

Edited October 30, 2009 by barky

[awd]

The simple fact is that most of us send our children to schools where Thais are paid about a third or less what Caucasian teachers are paid. Filipinos are paid somewhere in the middle.

Same with flight instruction. Pay a Thai 500 baht an hour, but a Caucasian will be a lot more.

It really is hypocritical for Caucasians to be moaning about race-based financial positions when they benefit the most.

[LooseCannon]

Disagree looseCannon with much of your piece if that's OK by you. Although maybe not good business, if true (yes I doubt it a little too) it is his business.

You say that he disrespects and insults his customers, and not mindful of repeat business. You mean exactly like Thais do to westeners, or is it OK for them and not reciprocal? So, you accept not only double pricing for visitors to the country but double standards too. A great way to treat the "guests".

I am against duel pricing for westeners in principle, not because I can't afford the premium, it's because I believe it wrong.

I don't believe for one minute that all Thais are not aware of this nationally accepted policy of charging westeners a premium (although not practiced in all places). They see nothing wrong with it , however, I am equally sure that if they were on the receiving end of racially biased pricing, they would squeel like stuffed pigs.

And, as voters, if Thais don't have control over it, who does?

"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." George S. Patton

In light of this quote - disagree to your hearts content.

We can agree on one thing - Geckos 'story' is a load of hot cock.

But, I was specifically responding to what he wrote about the way he says he runs his business & was not making any comment on Thai govt/businesses doing the same.

For the record I find the practice rather stupid & counter productive to fostering good relations between Thais & foreign vistors.

What I don't do is get stressed about it, angry, rising blood pressure, blow a gasket etc when I am going out with my family for a day of fun & relaxation. It's just not that a big deal to me & I am not going to spend the day stewing over how the Thais have shafted me.

In all honesty your average Thai would not give this matter one second of thought - it just does not concern them. This is exactly the same as your average Australian thinking about any number of government administrative fees & charges that exist but don't impact them directly.

"They see nothing wrong with it..." - a blanket generalization rendered completely false by my personal experience. A number of my wife's family have been surprised & then commented on the stupidity of this policy when they have witnessed me being charged extra.

This is an 'administrative' charge & will never be a part of any political party's election campaign. Absolutely zero political mileage.

As far public companies practicing double pricing - buy some shares, attend their annual general meeting & heckle the board.