..... It used to be in the old days if you invaded and took over a country you got to take as much of their natural resources as you could for free. The list of peoples who made an art out of that include the English, French, Dutch, Belgians, Portuguese, Spanish, Russians, and others but not the Americans. Those fools seem to pay for most everything (The Louisiana Purchase from France, Alaska from Russia, oil from Iraq).

At $4.74/km² for oil and gold-rich Alaska, and $15 million for 828,800 square miles of Louisiana, I wouldn't call them fools.

If not getting ownership of Iraqi oil, they at least have some control over it.

One of the first - if not the first - country to conclude a deal with the new Iraqi government was China.

I hope we don't have to wait 100-150 years for the Iraq War to start looking like a good deal as with TLP & "Seward's Folly" (Alaska).

I doubt it. The Americans invaded for a reason (NOT WOMD!).

Mind you, considering who the head of state and Commander in Cheif was at the time, and his intellectual dwarvism....It will be no suprise if Iraq will be called Bush's Folly at some time in the future?

The Americans are desperate to get out of the mess they created.

It seems to me that the primary aim is to create a local militia which will stop the different ethnic groups from killing each other, by killing anyone outside their own group who starts doing this.

Which was pretty well what Hussein was doing.

Pretty much the reason why I like RP's What If speech so much. Really the best speech I have ever heard a politician give.

i too liked his speech very much. but he could have dropped the preamble "what if?" because what he stated are facts! that the facts are neither accepted nor understood is based on the political education level of the majority of american citizens. most of them good-hearted and friendly people. alas, their education is mainly based on what FAUX News, the other media controlled by Rupert Murdoch (et al) and a few famous televangelists hammer into their brains.

i just can't understand how people, even those with an IQ slightly above a cretin, can accept messages such as "the Muslims hate us because of the freedom we enjoy!"

if The Greatest Nation on Earth™ had a president like Ron Paul the framers of the constitution could stop rotating in their graves and finally find peace!

Why is it that nobody ask what it is that has to be finished? Obama sending more cannon fodder to finish "The Job"

Will there be any prosecution against those criminals like Bush and Blair lying about the reason to go to war? False reasons that have been officially exposed recently due to FOIA requests but mentioned on Blog's for a long time.

It will be again wiped under the carpet and a new swing will be fed to the mass that has been brainwashed for the last century.

Anyone that is asking for some real answers will be labeled a conspiracy nut case or truther and will be laughed at by the indoctrinated mass.

i too liked his speech very much. but he could have dropped the preamble "what if?" because what he stated are facts!

i just can't understand how people, even those with an IQ slightly above a cretin, can accept messages such as "the Muslims hate us because of the freedom we enjoy!"

if The Greatest Nation on Earth™ had a president like Ron Paul the framers of the constitution could stop rotating in their graves and finally find peace!

Agree x 3

Pretty much the reason why I like RP's What If speech so much. Really the best speech I have ever heard a politician give.

alas, their education is mainly based on what FAUX News, the other media controlled by Rupert Murdoch (et al) and a few famous televangelists hammer into their brains.

I hate to break it to you but about 10 times more Americans get their TV news from the nightly news of the big three broadcast networks, ABC, CBS & NBC (all three very pro-Democrat) than from ALL cable news (Fox, CNN, MSNBC). That's why Fox News always brags about how well they do against other cable news stations.

http://www.journalism.org/node/1363

In other words, don't blame Murdoch and his meager US media holdings for American's "low education", blame the major networks.

"....i just can't understand how people, even those with an IQ slightly above a cretin, can accept messages such as "the Muslims hate us because of the freedom we enjoy!"

The ignorant masses are guided into what they will think by the agendas of those in power..... not neccessarily the government.

Take the recent Swiss referendum that passed, banning the construction of Muslim minarets because the populace believe that radical Islam will be promoted. The referendum went against the advice of the government.

The ignorant masses don't have a monopoly on being ignorant. Many people with high IQs were fooled into believing that Global Warming crap. Now they defend their position much in the same way people on the right did over no stockpiles of WMDs being found in Iraq. When people invest so much into a belief, it's hard to accept that you were wrong all along - even if you aren't alone and it isn't your fault.

Many people with high IQs were fooled into believing that Global Warming crap

How so? I'll admit the forces of the polluters have rallied and spent some serious propaganda dollars but it's a long way from a spent issue.

The current destruction of conservative politics in Australia has been a positive outcome anyway.

The ignorant masses don't have a monopoly on being ignorant. Many people with high IQs were fooled into believing that Global Warming crap. Now they defend their position much in the same way people on the right did over no stockpiles of WMDs being found in Iraq. When people invest so much into a belief, it's hard to accept that you were wrong all along - even if you aren't alone and it isn't your fault.

You speak as if global warming has been proven to be "crap".

I am not aware of that proof......could you elaborate, please?

Actually...it's a seperate issue to this thread.....I take your point on high IQ's being hoodwinkable at times....My perspective is that the intelligentsia that oppose the idea of global warming are the ones that have been hoodwinked.

Perhaps, if you can elaborate and substantiate on the crapiness of the global warming theory, you would begin a new thread so as not to digress here.....it's sure to be a hotly debated issue that is worthy of it's own thread.

Edited December 1, 200916 yr by Harcourt

forgot there was a 2nd part too...........

But also on a side note about the empty chambers....

a possible thought........

Because it gets into the official record. Maybe nobody is listening now; but maybe in the future they will look back on our history/past/official record and learn from our mistakes.

Not to mention that RP speeches now become viral and spread out on the internet where perhaps they can affect change in the electorate. So perhaps the congress critters aren't listening but their constituents are.

PS: given his age it is kind of funny when he says it blows my mind

He makes an interesting point at the 4:00 minute mark, not that any of his other points are invalid, but an interesting way to finish, i thought.

He makes an interesting point at the 4:00 minute mark, not that any of his other points are invalid, but an interesting way to finish, i thought.

Yes he does...The only question is why is it questioned at all. I mean it is so obvious & yet....We will probably miss the point yet again & even this new president will continue till we come undone with no choices left.

Not a good day in the USA

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota...t_b_376259.html

Good old Huffington Post...

If only those questions were as simple as that.

Wholesale withdrawal tends to be a bit lethal to your former allies, the Hmong Lao are an example there.

Don't think I'm supporting escalation though, that probably won't work either.

Jeez, why can't we get into nice simple wars like WW2 anymore?

Good old Huffington Post...

If only those questions were as simple as that.

Wholesale withdrawal tends to be a bit lethal to your former allies, the Hmong Lao are an example there.

Don't think I'm supporting escalation though, that probably won't work either.

Jeez, why can't we get into nice simple wars like WW2 anymore?

To tell you the truth I didn't read it. I watched Obamas speech.

I just googled Afghanistan & took the first news hit.

Beats me & I have no answer but I do know that while we spend what ever we will

spend in dollars & young lives to save what???

Here at home in Amerika there are now actual billboards coming up & here is an example.....

While I hope we do not see a civil war here...I would not say I was surprised if it happened.

Perhaps, if you can elaborate and substantiate on the crapiness of the global warming theory, you would begin a new thread so as not to digress here.....it's sure to be a hotly debated issue that is worthy of it's own thread.

It's been all over the news the past week. And you're right, it does deserve it's own thread. Start one and I'll join in as I'm sure others will.

Good old Huffington Post...

If only those questions were as simple as that.

Wholesale withdrawal tends to be a bit lethal to your former allies, the Hmong Lao are an example there.

Don't think I'm supporting escalation though, that probably won't work either.

Jeez, why can't we get into nice simple wars like WW2 anymore?

Because 65 years ago you fought to WIN when at war. Forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The large-scale firebombing of cities like Tokyo and Dresden killed as many people if not more. Today, it's headline news if 6 people at a wedding party in the desert firing off AK-47s get blown up. Imagine if one day Kandahar simply ceased to exist?

The reasons for the wars were more clearly defined as well. Wholesale invasion by foreign armies justified the type of action you describe.

I just can't see that trashing whole countries over terrorist action on the off chance you may get the actual offenders quite gets there.

"......I just can't see that trashing whole countries over terrorist action on the off chance you may get the actual offenders quite gets there......."

Hear hear.

Not even mentioning whether or not the said terrorist action was a justifiable reaction to a previous "action".

He makes an interesting point at the 4:00 minute mark, not that any of his other points are invalid, but an interesting way to finish, i thought.

Yes he does...The only question is why is it questioned at all. I mean it is so obvious & yet....We will probably miss the point yet again & even this new president will continue till we come undone with no choices left.

In years to come people will look back at these fools and wonder why the general public at large allowed them to do what they are doing. I feel pity for the people that are either too stupid or blind to see what is going on.

Not even mentioning whether or not the said terrorist action was a justifiable reaction to a previous "action".

Justifiable? This is interesting. Can you give examples of the types of actions that justify blowing up planes, trains, buildings with hundreds or thousands of innocent people (NYC, London, Madrid, Baghdad, Mumbai, Pakistan, that train between Moscow-St, Petersburg, etc)? I remember when Osama (not Obama, OSAMA) justifed killing because "infidels were in the holy land" or in other words, The Saudi gov't had allowed Americans and others to use bases in northern Saudi Arabia after muslim Saddam, attacked muslim Kuwait and threatened the Saudis as well. It is never justified, but I'd still like to hear what you have to say.

Pretty much the reason why I like RP's What If speech so much. Really the best speech I have ever heard a politician give.

alas, their education is mainly based on what FAUX News, the other media controlled by Rupert Murdoch (et al) and a few famous televangelists hammer into their brains.

I hate to break it to you but about 10 times more Americans get their TV news from the nightly news of the big three broadcast networks, ABC, CBS & NBC (all three very pro-Democrat) than from ALL cable news (Fox, CNN, MSNBC). That's why Fox News always brags about how well they do against other cable news stations.

http://www.journalism.org/node/1363

In other words, don't blame Murdoch and his meager US media holdings for American's "low education", blame the major networks.

i did not mean "news" per se. i meant the crap that FAUX News and affiliates are spreading. it's the O'Reillys, the Hannitys, the Limbaughs et al Americans listen to besides watching news from other networks.

Koh, do you think it is good that the US is poisoning people with depleted Uranium (meaning radioactive stuff) waste/munition in Iraq and other places?

Do you think it is OK to invade another country without a valid and approved reason?

Did the US used an atomic bomb to wipe out many hundreds of thousands people just to show their power?

Think of it.

Alex

It's Augustine's fault, and all those popes and televangelists. "Jesus wants you to kill all those families of God-damned mother rapists!!" Nearly everybody including Jews and atheists has been taught to commit unholy genocide.

Afghanistan...imagine an army of rapists visit your town, as they did Nanking. And after six years, the invaders' country commands more rapists to rape your family.

Not even mentioning whether or not the said terrorist action was a justifiable reaction to a previous "action".

Justifiable? This is interesting. Can you give examples of the types of actions that justify blowing up planes, trains, buildings with hundreds or thousands of innocent people (NYC, London, Madrid, Baghdad, Mumbai, Pakistan, that train between Moscow-St, Petersburg, etc)? I remember when Osama (not Obama, OSAMA) justifed killing because "infidels were in the holy land" or in other words, The Saudi gov't had allowed Americans and others to use bases in northern Saudi Arabia after muslim Saddam, attacked muslim Kuwait and threatened the Saudis as well. It is never justified, but I'd still like to hear what you have to say.

Firstly, I did not state that anything was justifiable....my words were, "whether or not". Also, "justifiable" is a word that had been brought up already in relation to America's actions.

You listed a bunch of terrorist actions and ended by saying it is never justified. What of America's actions?

You cite Mumbai, Pakistan, Madrid, Baghdad, Moscow....as if those are reasons America is in Afghanistan? Indeed; it is a "war on terror" wherever it may be. Yet Americans still support Catholic terrorists..... it's Muslim terrorists that are the bad guys.

America seems to think it's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

America seems to think that it's support of the Isreali genocide of Palestinians is justified.

America seems to think that ALL of it's actions on foreign lands throughout it's history were justified.

I suppose justification comes down to perspective.

Look at the school yard bully. It's not only his victims that despise him. So any one vicitm may have resentment toward the bully for more than just his own victimisation.

Normally, schoolyard fights follow a certain level of honour; no weapons, no hitting once he's down, etc, and if a fighter was to do something dirty, he's despised by all. Yet if somehow a victim of the bully managed to kick the bully in the balls, other victims of the bully are not horrified, but applaud the dirty hit.

Bystanders that have not been victims of the bully but witnesses to his ways may very well applaud the dirty hit too.

Imagine a man in Somalia.

He sees America giving billions of dollars in cash and weaponry to Israel who uses that weaponry to anihilate a group of people. He see's a bully.

He see's America protect the people responsible for the deaths of 20 000 Indians in Bopal. He see's a bully.

He see's America supporting the Shah of Iran so as to maintain a grasp on Iran's resources. He see's a bully.

He see's America's hand in so many despicable actions around the world. He see's an arrogant bully.

Then, he see's America in his own country, killing his own people. He see's a bully that he knows is hated by many others in many other countries.....he gets a feeling that whatever he can do to fight the bully will be justified.

As with so many bullied victims who are weaker than the bully, he resorts to whatever means he can devise to try to stop the bullying.

Is violence in reaction to violence ever justified? I think so.

I think the Twin Towers tragedy was a minor offense compared to what America has committed to hundreds of thousands of Muslims and non-Muslims around the world. Certainly in terms of the death toll.

I suppose justification comes down to perspective.

I suppose justification comes down to perspective.

Good Post Harcourt

Ron Paul: Every man for himself!

Also this is good.................

Edited December 3, 200916 yr by flying

America seems to think it's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

So does pretty much every other country. That's why NATO is there. Even the Afghans welcomed it. The Messiah even claims it's a just war. Only a few unimportant left wing nutjobs think it it isn't.

America seems to think that it's support of the Isreali genocide of Palestinians is justified.

There is no genocide taking place. If you think there is, you need to look up the definition of genocide. Not long ago Gaza was given back to the Palestinians (with the Israeli military forcing their own citizens out) and the very first thing the Palestinians did was start launching rockets at Israel from there. Dumbasses. Palestinians are - sadly - the world's bottom dwellers. Look no further than how their own Arab/Muslim neighbors treat them. hel_l, they probably get treated better in Tel Aviv than Kuwait. If there had to be a genocide someplace, Palestinians are a good place to start - after lawyers.

America seems to think that ALL of it's actions on foreign lands throughout it's history were justified.

Sorry for being blunt, but that is a stupid statement. What country in the history of the planet has taken an action they didn't think was justifiable at the time?

America has made a lot of mistakes in the world there is no doubt. But they have also done more good than any other country in world history (think of "Life of Brian" and the 'what have the Romans ever done for us?' bit). I read something in Singapore once about how when Europeans controlled the world there were colonies everywhere and since America has been the superpower these countries have become free.

Pretty much everything else you post is garbage.

Afghanistan...imagine an army of rapists visit your town, as they did Nanking. And after six years, the invaders' country commands more rapists to rape your family.

Are you comparing the Japanese infamous "rape of Nanking" in the 1930's to what's happening in Afghanistan today?? Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

Afghanistan...imagine an army of rapists visit your town, as they did Nanking. And after six years, the invaders' country commands more rapists to rape your family.

Are you comparing the Japanese infamous "rape of Nanking" in the 1930's to what's happening in Afghanistan today?? Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

i second PeaceBlondie whole-heartedly although i guess that he didn't mean "Nanking" literally. Afghanistan is raped by western powers for no reasons but the uneducated warmongers who had and have still no idea what "pashtu tradition" and "protection of a guest" means and who gave the relevant orders to the texan village idiot. the latter, being an idiot, should actually not be blamed for anything. the blame is on those who elected him

Afghanistan...imagine an army of rapists visit your town, as they did Nanking. And after six years, the invaders' country commands more rapists to rape your family.

Are you comparing the Japanese infamous "rape of Nanking" in the 1930's to what's happening in Afghanistan today?? Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

Yes. IMNSHO, warfare is sin. No war is ever divinely righteous or 'just.' The Japanese raped women in Nanking with penises and bayonets. The armies of the "Christian Allies" of ww2 did genocides in Europe and Asia against Christians and non-Christians, ostensibly in the name of a pacifist Savior. These wars in Afghanistan and Iraq use conventional weapons of massive destruction. War is hel_l or demonic.