Understanding X-pats

[wolf5370]

I think the main reason for most of the complaints is there ARE ways to do things better... no matter what country you live in. Despite Thailand being a lovely place to retire, if you have an adequate income, there are still many problems that could be and should be sorted out. But, that is true wherever you live. I happen to live in Canada, and spend 5 months each year living in Thailand during Canada's winter. I complain about Canada all the time, and think our government officials are a bunch of scammers no matter which party gets elected. I think our so called Justice System is a disgrace. I also think our once great police force, the RCMP, has fallen to a very sad level. It was once the greatest police force in the world and thought highly of by every other country, but now you can't trust any of them.

So, when I hear expats in Thailand complaining, I give them a little slack. They usually are touching on real problems that should be sorted out, but aren't. I won't go into all the problem areas because I can balance them out with so many good things that it makes my few complaints look trivial.

I agree. My OP was a somewhat scrambled. What I was trying to say was that some/many X-pats lack class when dealing with Thais in public. You brought up good points and their attitude may be a product of their frustrations with Thailand's way of doing certain things. Before blowing their tops in the post office or, even worse, at their GF/wife in public; taking a moment to grasp the root of the problem might improve the outcome.

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners. You either an ultra pacifist or you dont get out much.

I had an incident in Tescos where a Thai women just pushed in front of me, (and others). When I pointed out that there was a queue and I was before her, I got the 'This is Thailand and I am Thai' speech.

What would you have done?

I'd have said that this is Tesco, a British company (since CP sold its share in 2003), and Britain is for the British, so get to the back of the f*ing line - or go and try and fins a Thai supermarket!

[siamamerican]

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners. You either an ultra pacifist or you dont get out much.

I had an incident in Tescos where a Thai women just pushed in front of me, (and others). When I pointed out that there was a queue and I was before her, I got the 'This is Thailand and I am Thai' speech.

What would you have done?

Happens all the time and it is an inconvenience. This behavior isn't directed at foreigners specifically. I just shake my head, wait in line and hope another person doesn't cut. As I mentioned in the OP, I'm hot tempered and have made a concerted effort, to say the least, since arriving in Thailand to control myself.

Not speaking Thai puts me at disadvantage when it comes to getting to know the locals. I've met many classy Thais in my running and biking clubs. I would think that other Thais for the most part behave the same.

Don't want to get into details but I've had Thais that barely knew me help me tremendously. Offering free legal assistance and stand up to the police on my behalf. I understand your frustrations but many you would experience in any developing country. You ever wait in a line in Mexico City?

[whistleblower]

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners. You either an ultra pacifist or you dont get out much.

I had an incident in Tescos where a Thai women just pushed in front of me, (and others). When I pointed out that there was a queue and I was before her, I got the 'This is Thailand and I am Thai' speech.

What would you have done?

Happens all the time and it is an inconvenience. This behavior isn't directed at foreigners specifically. I just shake my head, wait in line and hope another person doesn't cut. As I mentioned in the OP, I'm hot tempered and have made a concerted effort, to say the least, since arriving in Thailand to control myself.

Not speaking Thai puts me at disadvantage when it comes to getting to know the locals. I've met many classy Thais in my running and biking clubs. I would think that other Thais for the most part behave the same.

Don't want to get into details but I've had Thais that barely knew me help me tremendously. Offering free legal assistance and stand up to the police on my behalf. I understand your frustrations but many you would experience in any developing country. You ever wait in a line in Mexico City?

The main reason things dont change is that there are too many people who do put up with the rudeness etc. would you just shake your head in the states?

This is their country and we have to respect their culture. But rudeness etc doesnt come under culture and therefore shouldnt be tolerated

[siamamerican]

I love Thailand, but most Thais have no work ethic and the education system is terrible. The chances of them "closing the income gap" with the West is pretty darn low.

I agree their educational system is lacking. Thailand has a long long ways to go before catching up to the west. They have been closing the gap consistently over the last 20 years but the gap is enormous even with their economies growing 50% faster on a per capita basis than the west. I do think we gave them a good model to follow and to some extent they have succeeded in following it.

[doggie888888]

I think the main reason for most of the complaints is there ARE ways to do things better... no matter what country you live in. Despite Thailand being a lovely place to retire, if you have an adequate income, there are still many problems that could be and should be sorted out. But, that is true wherever you live. I happen to live in Canada, and spend 5 months each year living in Thailand during Canada's winter. I complain about Canada all the time, and think our government officials are a bunch of scammers no matter which party gets elected. I think our so called Justice System is a disgrace. I also think our once great police force, the RCMP, has fallen to a very sad level. It was once the greatest police force in the world and thought highly of by every other country, but now you can't trust any of them.

So, when I hear expats in Thailand complaining, I give them a little slack. They usually are touching on real problems that should be sorted out, but aren't. I won't go into all the problem areas because I can balance them out with so many good things that it makes my few complaints look trivial.

I agree. My OP was a somewhat scrambled. What I was trying to say was that some/many X-pats lack class when dealing with Thais in public. You brought up good points and their attitude may be a product of their frustrations with Thailand's way of doing certain things. Before blowing their tops in the post office or, even worse, at their GF/wife in public; taking a moment to grasp the root of the problem might improve the outcome.

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners. You either an ultra pacifist or you dont get out much.

I had an incident in Tescos where a Thai women just pushed in front of me, (and others). When I pointed out that there was a queue and I was before her, I got the 'This is Thailand and I am Thai' speech.

What would you have done?

My reply: "yes, you are Thai with no manners". Please people, Thais DO queue. The ones that make pitiful excuses like "this is Thailand" are just peeved at being caught out. Same with idiot farangs who get caught out and say "oh I did not know there was a queue", to which I reply: "well, now you know, so queue up". Still, I agree to keep your cool and not get too worked up, 9 out of 10 times, people do respond appropriately when told politely to queue up.

[Geekfreaklover]

I think the main reason for most of the complaints is there ARE ways to do things better... no matter what country you live in. Despite Thailand being a lovely place to retire, if you have an adequate income, there are still many problems that could be and should be sorted out. But, that is true wherever you live. I happen to live in Canada, and spend 5 months each year living in Thailand during Canada's winter. I complain about Canada all the time, and think our government officials are a bunch of scammers no matter which party gets elected. I think our so called Justice System is a disgrace. I also think our once great police force, the RCMP, has fallen to a very sad level. It was once the greatest police force in the world and thought highly of by every other country, but now you can't trust any of them.

So, when I hear expats in Thailand complaining, I give them a little slack. They usually are touching on real problems that should be sorted out, but aren't. I won't go into all the problem areas because I can balance them out with so many good things that it makes my few complaints look trivial.

I agree. My OP was a somewhat scrambled. What I was trying to say was that some/many X-pats lack class when dealing with Thais in public. You brought up good points and their attitude may be a product of their frustrations with Thailand's way of doing certain things. Before blowing their tops in the post office or, even worse, at their GF/wife in public; taking a moment to grasp the root of the problem might improve the outcome.

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners. You either an ultra pacifist or you dont get out much.

I had an incident in Tescos where a Thai women just pushed in front of me, (and others). When I pointed out that there was a queue and I was before her, I got the 'This is Thailand and I am Thai' speech.

What would you have done?

I'd have said that this is Tesco, a British company (since CP sold its share in 2003), and Britain is for the British, so get to the back of the f*ing line - or go and try and fins a Thai supermarket!

Hahaha. Like it. Wouldn't be difficult to say in Thai either.

But, as always. They are one step ahead.

You notice the way Thais always refer to Tesco as 'Lotus' ?

Would imagine 'Lotus' take 51%, so techically it's a Thai superstore.

[bkkjames]

no no, it's because Lotah rolls off the tongue easier than taco.

[phetaroi]

More times than I would have liked I've come across as a hot head or even worse a pr!ck on this forum. Been working on controlling that fire over the last year since moving to Thailand. Still have difficulties conversing with perpetual pessimists and those that can't comprehend they aren't superior to Thais( hmm, or Americans). We all are imperfect and I'm probably less in control of my emotions, even now, than most but I do control my temper during my interactions with Thais in public.

I spent the first 6 months of the year driving throughout Thailand and witnessed part and full time x- pats , on too many occasions, behaving extremely inconsiderate. The main reason for the behavior is the simple fact that it is done differently in their home country. I'm a proud American but have come to the realization over the years that we as a whole are far from perfect and I have never been to a country that is close to perfect. Losing your cool and insulting Thais because their means of doing things isn't exactly going to garner respect.

The constant posts about how Thailand is becoming Xenophobic seem to be misdirected. From my experience, many westerners are becoming more fearful of Thais. I'll admit that I worry that Thais are becoming less respectful to us westerners. They will naturally become less accommodating to westerners as the wealth gap closes.

Your post reminded me of the film "Doctor Zhivago". Yes, I know...that sounds crazy or maybe even stupid, but bear with me. I happened to take that DVD off the shelf just last night...hadn't watched it for several years. I was stunned at how differently I was looking at the characters.

Here you had Zhivago. The good guy. Right? Well, maybe not. He had a good wife who loved him, a sweet son, and a wonderful father-in-law. So, he spent most of the movie having a sexual affair with Lara, who was also already married with a sweet daughter. When Zhivago escaped from the Reds he made his way back to Lara, not his family. Zhivago and Lara both saw themselves as better than everyone else. When Victor Kamarovsky (sp?) -- the villain -- came to help them escape -- to save them and Lara's daughter -- they refused because they wouldn't deal with someone with Victor's morals. Of course, when Victor came around the next time, they set aside their high morals and Lara and the daughter went with him, leaving Zhivago behind. So, the good guys were not very good at all...it's just that he was a poet and therefore sensitive.

On the other hand you had Victor. The bad guy. He had no illusions about himself, his shortcomings, or his morality. He admitted who he was to himself and to others. He saved the life of a woman who despised him, and her daughter (not his), and offered to save Zhivago (who also despised him). He was a realistic man. Maybe he was actually the good guy?

Now how does this relate to this thread?

We have many different kinds of expats here in Thailand. We have some who came here because they love Thai history and culture and food and people. We have others that came here because they can't get sex back home (they're undesirable to the women at home and can't afford the prostitutes). Mixed in both groups we have those who moan and groan and criticize how bad everything in Thailand is and how bad the Thai people are. We have others who overlook every failing of the nation and the people, and who buy mai pben rai hook, line, and sinker.

So who are the good guy and bad guy expats? For me, the bad guys are those like Zhivago who hold themselves above the Thais and their culture while "using" Thailand and the Thai people. They treat the people and the country with disdain, use it as their personal playground, but stay despite how much they hate it...because they don't have a realistic view of who they themselves are.

[siamamerican]

*Affordable housing

*Entertainment

*Cost and availability of restaurants

*Transportation Options ( In America it is horrendous)

*Service at hospitals

*Health care costs ( early 40s but have had great outcomes for broken bones and other issues)

*Service at government offices (oddly enough this where I've seen quite a few Farangs insulting Thais. Maybe in Europe the service is better than in the US but I doubt it)

*Friendly attitude of Thais ( again, maybe people are friendlier in Europe vs USA)

If you rent, I agree you can get some great deals. If you buy, you cant put it in your name. I also think The actual quality of builders/buildings are not of the quality of the west. Point to note Thais can own land/property in the west.

Entertainment? What entertainment are you talking about? If you dont want to whore it everynight, i havent seen much in the way of entertainment.

Cost and availability of restaurants are good, but I have noticed lately that prices have shot up. (exchange rate plays a part in this) Service is still substandard though.

Transportation options. You say in USA its horrendous. Dont you have planes, trains, cars, buses, taxis or boats?. The cost of transport here is cheap, but i dont think ive ever read a story about a public transport accident where the driver Never fled the scene. Checks and balances on employees is not like it is in the west.

You get good service at hospitals because you pay for it. You said your insured, so the Hospitals you would go to know they are gonna get paid. (and most of those top hospitals are foreign owned/run)

Service at government offices. I really cant believe that the US is worse than Thailand. Here they have outdated sytems, lazy officials and corrupt practices.

Friendly attitude of Thais? How many THAI friends do you have? I dont mean the missus friends or people you say hello to where you live, i mean a Thai friend that you regularly interact with socially? That thai smile doesnt always mean theyre happy you know.

I've resided in Thailand now over 4 years including my stay earlier this decade which doesn't make me an expert on Thais. I can say though that I've been happy with the quality of everything on my brief list above that you tore apart. I respect your perspective and hope you can respect mine.

My rebuttal:

Traveling in most cities in America is near impossible if you don't have you own car. Also cheap (compared to Thailand) transportation across states is non-existent. I agree with you that travel is more dangerous in Thailand.

You also pay for worse service in America at hospitals. If I remember correctly, the average family pays $7,000 which is double the already high amount Europeans pay. Our healthcare outcomes are also inferior to Europe. America has done many great things but its current healthcare system is awful and I this is coming from a republican ( the do nothing about healthcare party - I think that is their slogan).

I enjoy the restaurants and have no problem with the service. The service is different but I don't let it ruin my meal. In lieu of being looked after, you are expected to ask for service. I can deal with the inconvenience.

Entertainment is plentiful and not bad at all. The movie theaters are much more comfortable than the states and the food is 20% the cost. Going to movies in the USA runs about $30 in California for two with popcorn and a drink. Disco's and live entertainment is extremely affordable. My friends that visit have said the clubs are better than most the top end clubs in San Francisco at a fraction of the cost. Bowling is roughly the same cost as the states but the quality of service here is 100% better. Same goes for playing pool. In the states you rent the table or lane and the service ends there. I could go on but what is the point. We just see things differently.

Not being able to buy here is a pain but not a new experience for me. Mexico has its own hurdles when it come to buying property. I don't understand the logic behind not allowing foreigners to buy land. I just put my place in my wifes name and if she dumps me I'll take a little walk off our one of our patios. Seriously, I was broke 10 years ago when I met her so she deserves at least the condo for sticking by my side.

The service at government offices is awful in the USA. The US does have better systems and corruption is extremely rare but I only mentioned the service.

I don't have any close Thai friends. What is your point? I only mentioned there attitude. Not every person but most sure seem friendly to me. If they aren't happy but smile and treat me with respect, then more power to them.

Anyhows, we just have different perceptions of what we have experienced in Thailand. Good luck to you regardless

Edited November 3, 2009 by siamamerican

[mca]

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners.

You're insulting an awful lot of thoroughly decent people there.

[jackr]

I also think our once great police force, the RCMP, has fallen to a very sad level. It was once the greatest police force in the world

When was that then?

For me, the bad guys are those like Zhivago who hold themselves above the Thais and their culture while "using" Thailand and the Thai people. They treat the people and the country with disdain, use it as their personal playground, but stay despite how much they hate it...because they don't have a realistic view of who they themselves are.

Yep, same here. There was a right arrogant so n so in the supermarket yesterday shouting at a lady to move out of his way. These prats really make my blood boil!

--

That it'll get more expensive here goes without saying, but lets face it, it's never going to be Singapore, Japan, South Korea expense... the Thais just don't have their mindset for business, economics, and general lack of corruption, plus it's just too laid back. Expect they'll have more disdain for the expat, however; but reckon that will come about with or without the wealth parity issue due to emergence of less-tolerant generations and the inevitable dilution of culture.

[siamamerican]

So who are the good guy and bad guy expats? For me, the bad guys are those like Zhivago who hold themselves above the Thais and their culture while "using" Thailand and the Thai people. They treat the people and the country with disdain, use it as their personal playground, but stay despite how much they hate it...because they don't have a realistic view of who they themselves are.

Doctor Zhivago is one of my favorites. Been 20 years since I read it in college and only remember the basic story line. Funny how people can remember the tiny details of movies and stories years after seen or read. Not me - I have a hard time remembering movies I saw 6 months ago.

I enjoyed the analogy but think it's much easier to determine the good and the bad in Thailand. They wear their bad attitude on their sleeve for all to see. Sure there are the esoteric evil ones that prey on Thais and Farangs generosity but I have been lucky enough not to have been scammed.

I think there is a little badness in all of us. As another poster made apparent, I too am selfish. I really don't wish poverty or illness on anyone but wish Thailand wouldn't change as rapidly as it is at the moment. As Thailand becomes more prosperous economically, the cheap and fun lifestyle I enjoy will be jeopardized. I think the poster read to deep into my statement but his claim that I desire to benefit at the expense of others is true to some extent.

I agree with your last paragraph. Though, I think they would stay here even if they had a realistic view of who they themselves were. Before arriving in Thailand, most have at least a basic understanding of themselves. After reinventing ( sometimes without knowing ) themselves in Thailand, many seem forget their imperfections and I think that is what your referring to.

[Brigante7]

So you tell me a Thai that (a) ever acts with class ( ever acts with anything but contempt when dealing with westerners. You either an ultra pacifist or you dont get out much.

I had an incident in Tescos where a Thai women just pushed in front of me, (and others). When I pointed out that there was a queue and I was before her, I got the 'This is Thailand and I am Thai' speech.

What would you have done?

I wouldn't have done a thing, the wife would have swiftly informed her to remove herself from the line.

Brigante7.

[whistleblower]

*Affordable housing

*Entertainment

*Cost and availability of restaurants

*Transportation Options ( In America it is horrendous)

*Service at hospitals

*Health care costs ( early 40s but have had great outcomes for broken bones and other issues)

*Service at government offices (oddly enough this where I've seen quite a few Farangs insulting Thais. Maybe in Europe the service is better than in the US but I doubt it)

*Friendly attitude of Thais ( again, maybe people are friendlier in Europe vs USA)

If you rent, I agree you can get some great deals. If you buy, you cant put it in your name. I also think The actual quality of builders/buildings are not of the quality of the west. Point to note Thais can own land/property in the west.

Entertainment? What entertainment are you talking about? If you dont want to whore it everynight, i havent seen much in the way of entertainment.

Cost and availability of restaurants are good, but I have noticed lately that prices have shot up. (exchange rate plays a part in this) Service is still substandard though.

Transportation options. You say in USA its horrendous. Dont you have planes, trains, cars, buses, taxis or boats?. The cost of transport here is cheap, but i dont think ive ever read a story about a public transport accident where the driver Never fled the scene. Checks and balances on employees is not like it is in the west.

You get good service at hospitals because you pay for it. You said your insured, so the Hospitals you would go to know they are gonna get paid. (and most of those top hospitals are foreign owned/run)

Service at government offices. I really cant believe that the US is worse than Thailand. Here they have outdated sytems, lazy officials and corrupt practices.

Friendly attitude of Thais? How many THAI friends do you have? I dont mean the missus friends or people you say hello to where you live, i mean a Thai friend that you regularly interact with socially? That thai smile doesnt always mean theyre happy you know.

I've resided in Thailand now over 4 years including my stay earlier this decade which doesn't make me an expert on Thais. I can say though that I've been happy with the quality of everything on my brief list above that you tore apart. I respect your perspective and hope you can respect mine.

My rebuttal:

Traveling in most cities in America is near impossible if you don't have you own car. Also cheap (compared to Thailand) transportation across states is non-existent. I agree with you that travel is more dangerous in Thailand.

You also pay for worse service in America at hospitals. If I remember correctly, the average family pays $7,000 which is double the already high amount Europeans pay. Our healthcare outcomes are also inferior to Europe. America has done many great things but its current healthcare system is awful and I this is coming from a republican ( the do nothing about healthcare party - I think that is their slogan).

I enjoy the restaurants and have no problem with the service. The service is different but I don't let it ruin my meal. In lieu of being looked after, you are expected to ask for service. I can deal with the inconvenience.

Entertainment is plentiful and not bad at all. The movie theaters are much more comfortable than the states and the food is 20% the cost. Going to movies in the USA runs about $30 in California for two with popcorn and a drink. Disco's and live entertainment is extremely affordable. My friends that visit have said the clubs are better than most the top end clubs in San Francisco at a fraction of the cost. Bowling is roughly the same cost as the states but the quality of service here is 100% better. Same goes for playing pool. In the states you rent the table or lane and the service ends there. I could go on but what is the point. We just see things differently.

Not being able to buy here is a pain but not a new experience for me. Mexico has its own hurdles when it come to buying property. I don't understand the logic behind not allowing foreigners to buy land. I just put my place in my wifes name and if she dumps me I'll take a little walk off our one of our patios. Seriously, I was broke 10 years ago when I met her so she deserves at least the condo for sticking by my side.

The service at government offices is awful in the USA. The US does have better systems and corruption is extremely rare but I only mentioned the service.

I don't have any close Thai friends. What is your point? I only mentioned there attitude. Not every person but most sure seem friendly to me. If they aren't happy but smile and treat me with respect, then more power to them.

Anyhows, we just have different perceptions of what we have experienced in Thailand. Good luck to you regardless

Thanx for your reply. we will agree to disagree.

you do seem to have a downer on the US though.

maybe it would have been different if we hadnt give you it back to govern it yourselves???

[wolf5370]

----------

Yes, and not only inappropriate speech (communication), but also inappropriate behaviour too. The problem is that 'the word has got around' to a lot of Thais and we are tainted by stories of farangs exploding (not literally), being rude and threatening/confrontational.

A case in point: I just moved from a good area that was all Thai - I had no non-Thai neighbours at all, to a moo bahn less han 10KM from my old house.

The moo bahn seems to have a high western population, though I didn't notice until after I had moved in - just didn't care if it was a Thai area or not I guess. However, in my old area the Thais were friendly, chatty and helpful (offering lifts when they see me going for a walk etc) ; Where I am now the Thai's are quite rude - not outwardly perhaps, but they never reciprocate to a hello, never return a smile let alone give one (the kids do of course, but not the adults). The only word I have had with any Thai here to date (just over a month) that isn't my landlord or one of the moo bahn staff is the local crazy woman (this the landlord told me) moaning about my cat in her garden (it had been chased there by 3 dogs that belong to another farang that were also in her garden).

So, as you say they don't want to talk to me - but this was not of my doing, but of a misplaced stereotype.

Edited November 4, 2009 by PeaceBlondie
Thai languate deleted. PeaceBlondie

[siamamerican]

Thanx for your reply. we will agree to disagree.

you do seem to have a downer on the US though.

maybe it would have been different if we hadnt give you it back to govern it yourselves???

Not my intention. My experiences in the USA are much more positive than negative. Its fair system has provided me time and time again the opportunity to work harder than the next person and reap the rewards. The USA is a beautiful country on so many levels but that wasn't my point of this post. Also, pro USA posts don't go over well at all on this forum. It seems the rest of the world feel our DNA is fcked up.

Edited November 4, 2009 by siamamerican

[cognos]

I think the main reason for most of the complaints is there ARE ways to do things better... no matter what country you live in. Despite Thailand being a lovely place to retire, if you have an adequate income, there are still many problems that could be and should be sorted out. But, that is true wherever you live. I happen to live in Canada, and spend 5 months each year living in Thailand during Canada's winter. I complain about Canada all the time, and think our government officials are a bunch of scammers no matter which party gets elected. I think our so called Justice System is a disgrace. I also think our once great police force, the RCMP, has fallen to a very sad level. It was once the greatest police force in the world and thought highly of by every other country, but now you can't trust any of them.

So, when I hear expats in Thailand complaining, I give them a little slack. They usually are touching on real problems that should be sorted out, but aren't. I won't go into all the problem areas because I can balance them out with so many good things that it makes my few complaints look trivial.

Ian, maybe you can't trust any of them( RCMP), but I've been let off the hook 3 times in a row( in Van) on minor driving offences..I just showed respect, admitted I screwed up, and they let me go jing jing

[siamamerican]

Is that why the Japanese economy as a whole has been a disaster for the past decade Ian?

Not really. Japan is still a world leader. But, all countries grow to a certain size before everything levels off. It happened to Great Britain and the USA as well. Last year's disaster in the world economy was brought on by American greed and corruption. I'll bet if you examined the internal workings of large Japanese companies it was greed at the top that caused the problems they faced 10 years ago. It all levels off eventually and slowly things balance out.

Last years economic collapse was brought on by corruption from INTERNATIONAL bankers, this includes high powered greed from the Great Britain and the EU and not American greed alone. The only country sitting pretty and not suffering during these times is probably China with their socialist-capital ideals. Capitalism is greed, and greed is capitalism.

and greed is good Once greed/capitalism was injected into the Chinese system the living standards of the Chinese began to improve. They are still so poor compared to the western capitalist countries but capitalism will close the gap over the next 50 years. I can't even imagine the economic power China would be if they had followed the capitalist path the west did years ago. The average Chinese makes about 11,000 bt per month vs. an American's 130,000 bt. The Chinese aren't sitting pretty presently by western standards. As they emulate and possibly improve our capitalist system that will change.

I agree that last years financial hick-up was caused by high powered greed throughout the world( the USA played a bigger role than many). I don't know why, not being omnipotent, how good ideas, systems, ... go hand in hand with bad outcomes to lesser extents.

[yabaaaa]

More times than I would have liked I've come across as a hot head or even worse a pr!ck on this forum. Been working on controlling that fire over the last year since moving to Thailand. Still have difficulties conversing with perpetual pessimists and those that can't comprehend they aren't superior to Thais( hmm, or Americans). We all are imperfect and I'm probably less in control of my emotions, even now, than most but I do control my temper during my interactions with Thais in public.

I spent the first 6 months of the year driving throughout Thailand and witnessed part and full time x- pats , on too many occasions, behaving extremely inconsiderate. The main reason for the behavior is the simple fact that it is done differently in their home country. I'm a proud American but have come to the realization over the years that we as a whole are far from perfect and I have never been to a country that is close to perfect. Losing your cool and insulting Thais because their means of doing things isn't exactly going to garner respect.

The constant posts about how Thailand is becoming Xenophobic seem to be misdirected. From my experience, many westerners are becoming more fearful of Thais. I'll admit that I worry that Thais are becoming less respectful to us westerners. They will naturally become less accommodating to westerners as the wealth gap closes. Also, I fear Thailand's economic growth over the last 20 years is going to continue and it will not be the fun and cheap country it is today.

I love Thailand and below are some of my reasons. Didn't list the numerous problems with Thailand because none are really worth mentioning. I'm just going to enjoy what I have today and realize things are going to change and probably for the worse for us x-pats.

*Affordable housing no guarantee and it may fall down 10 year guarantee in UK

*Entertainment same anywhere more prostitutes

*Cost and availability of restaurants

*Transportation Options ( In America it is horrendous) have you seen the Thai rail network, stae of many roads lack of safety

*Service at hospitals again if they cut the wrong arm off by mistake cann you sue easily for millions

*Health care costs ( early 40s but have had great outcomes for broken bones and other issues)

*Service at government offices (oddly enough this where I've seen quite a few Farangs insulting Thais. Maybe in Europe the service is better than in the US but I doubt it) Sure pay them they can move quickly=ish

*Friendly attitude of Thais ( again, maybe people are friendlier in Europe vs USA) What is the ulterior motive I dont trust anyone friendly

[pjclark1]

Entertainment? What entertainment are you talking about? If you dont want to whore it everynight, i havent seen much in the way of entertainment.

Cost and availability of restaurants are good, but I have noticed lately that prices have shot up. (exchange rate plays a part in this) Service is still substandard though.

Service at government offices. I really cant believe that the US is worse than Thailand. Here they have outdated sytems, lazy officials and corrupt practices.

Friendly attitude of Thais? How many THAI friends do you have? I dont mean the missus friends or people you say hello to where you live, i mean a Thai friend that you regularly interact with socially? That thai smile doesnt always mean theyre happy you know.

Entertainment

The local cinema is very nice (Gat Sang Gow in CM) and only costs 70bht, the movies are in English (but have Thai subs)

Restaurants

Sitting in my favourite restaurant now, Glui pan (banana shake) 10bht, Pat Prik Geng Gai (chilli chicken curry) 25bht. Very simple, service good, prices great.

Government Offices

I have found the government offices very efficient, took gf to get passport all done in 1 hour, passport arrived in post 5 days later (beat that in the western world), went to get driving licence, all done on the day, left with licence in hand (beat that in the western world)

Friendly Thais

Out on the town for Loy Gratong last night, back to a Thai bar in the university area after for a few large Changs at 50bht a bottle. bunch of Thai students on the next table start swapping fireworks with us, we play the 'who can be most dangerous with fireworks' game, they win hands down and teach me a few banger and rocket throwing tricks. I can now wait till the banger almost blows before chucking, and whirl a lit rocket round my head before letting go. You couldn't find a more friendly bunch of guys anywhere in the world.

I understand that those who come to Thailand and make no effort to fit in with the locals may have a few problems, just make a little bit of effort and it goes a long way.

Edited November 4, 2009 by pjclark1

[Lite Beer]

Post discussing Moderation deleted.

[whistleblower]

Entertainment? What entertainment are you talking about? If you dont want to whore it everynight, i havent seen much in the way of entertainment.

Cost and availability of restaurants are good, but I have noticed lately that prices have shot up. (exchange rate plays a part in this) Service is still substandard though.

Service at government offices. I really cant believe that the US is worse than Thailand. Here they have outdated sytems, lazy officials and corrupt practices.

Friendly attitude of Thais? How many THAI friends do you have? I dont mean the missus friends or people you say hello to where you live, i mean a Thai friend that you regularly interact with socially? That thai smile doesnt always mean theyre happy you know.

Entertainment

The local cinema is very nice (Gat Sang Gow in CM) and only costs 70bht, the movies are in English (but have Thai subs)

Restaurants

Sitting in my favourite restaurant now, Glui pan (banana shake) 10bht, Pat Prik Geng Gai (chilli chicken curry) 25bht. Very simple, service good, prices great.

Government Offices

I have found the government offices very efficient, took gf to get passport all done in 1 hour, passport arrived in post 5 days later (beat that in the western world), went to get driving licence, all done on the day, left with licence in hand (beat that in the western world)

Friendly Thais

Out on the town for Loy Gratong last night, back to a Thai bar in the university area after for a few large Changs at 50bht a bottle. bunch of Thai students on the next table start swapping fireworks with us, we play the 'who can be most dangerous with fireworks' game, they win hands down and teach me a few banger and rocket throwing tricks. I can now wait till the banger almost blows before chucking, and whirl a lit rocket round my head before letting go. You couldn't find a more friendly bunch of guys anywhere in the world.

I understand that those who come to Thailand and make no effort to fit in with the locals may have a few problems, just make a little bit of effort and it goes a long way.

And im guessing those uni students have spent all day talking about the dumb farang who was here last night and couldnt understand that we were laughing at him all night! But good to know u learnt how to be an ass with fireworks! something to pass on to the kids eh?

[dumball]

Should an xpat need to be that stupid a moron to play dangerously with fireworks merely to FIT IN and please the boys(children) , then i wonder why so many give it a pass !!!!!!!!

[siamamerican]

And im guessing those uni students have spent all day talking about the dumb farang who was here last night and couldnt understand that we were laughing at him all night! But good to know u learnt how to be an ass with fireworks! something to pass on to the kids eh?

I get the juvenile humor and on some level it is funny. Do you really think Thais are incapable of positive interactions with Farangs? I don't enjoy fireworks but many Thais do and is it inconceivable that they mutually enjoyed this annoying activity?

[WhingeingMoaners]

Maybe overall, the average Thai is becoming less tolerant of excessive farang long-term expats. Usually, I think most average Thais in the Thai social structure have been non-inclusive (xenophobic). If it's true that the Gini coefficients of wealth and income disparity here are still very unbalanced, perhaps Thailand will never ever be a first world country.

My rose-coloured glasses broke, but it's still a great place to live cheaply.

So this is a forum about Thailand, and I as a Thai person, think that I am allowed to voice my opinions regarding you and your fellow farangs who constantly discuss Thailand and its people. Foreigners who live in the Land of Smiles should also be subject to criticism just as Thais are subject to the onslaught of denunciations that you people are constantly throwing at us. The relationship between farangs and Thais goes sour, and and you still wonder why? People like you have only yourselves to blame.

[OxfordWill]

A basic understanding of Thai history will teach you that xenophobia is nothing new or emerging in the Thai psyche.

[michaelbutcher]

Last years economic collapse was brought on by corruption from INTERNATIONAL bankers, this includes high powered greed from the Great Britain and the EU and not American greed alone. The only country sitting pretty and not suffering during these times is probably China with their socialist-capital ideals. Capitalism is greed, and greed is capitalism.

And Australia. You forgot Australia. Last three recessions never touched them.

[Jingthing]

Maybe overall, the average Thai is becoming less tolerant of excessive farang long-term expats. Usually, I think most average Thais in the Thai social structure have been non-inclusive (xenophobic). If it's true that the Gini coefficients of wealth and income disparity here are still very unbalanced, perhaps Thailand will never ever be a first world country.

My rose-coloured glasses broke, but it's still a great place to live cheaply.

So this is a forum about Thailand, and I as a Thai person, think that I am allowed to voice my opinions regarding you and your fellow farangs who constantly discuss Thailand and its people. Foreigners who live in the Land of Smiles should also be subject to criticism just as Thais are subject to the onslaught of denunciations that you people are constantly throwing at us. The relationship between farangs and Thais goes sour, and and you still wonder why? People like you have only yourselves to blame.

I don't feel that you have communicated your point clearly enough. Your perspective is very interesting and I am sure many of us would like to understand it better. Are you saying that the regard of Thais towards western foreigners has soured because we openly talk critically about some of the negative things we encounter in our new home? I am not sure you are saying that, just asking.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe overall, the average Thai is becoming less tolerant of excessive farang long-term expats. Usually, I think most average Thais in the Thai social structure have been non-inclusive (xenophobic). If it's true that the Gini coefficients of wealth and income disparity here are still very unbalanced, perhaps Thailand will never ever be a first world country.

My rose-coloured glasses broke, but it's still a great place to live cheaply.

So this is a forum about Thailand, and I as a Thai person, think that I am allowed to voice my opinions regarding you and your fellow farangs who constantly discuss Thailand and its people. Foreigners who live in the Land of Smiles should also be subject to criticism just as Thais are subject to the onslaught of denunciations that you people are constantly throwing at us. The relationship between farangs and Thais goes sour, and and you still wonder why? People like you have only yourselves to blame.

Like Jingthing, I welcome further posts by you, 'WhiningeingMoaner,' because your intent was not clear.

Was it something I said in the post you quoted?

[ozzieovaseas]

Maybe overall, the average Thai is becoming less tolerant of excessive farang long-term expats. Usually, I think most average Thais in the Thai social structure have been non-inclusive (xenophobic). If it's true that the Gini coefficients of wealth and income disparity here are still very unbalanced, perhaps Thailand will never ever be a first world country.

My rose-coloured glasses broke, but it's still a great place to live cheaply.

So this is a forum about Thailand, and I as a Thai person, think that I am allowed to voice my opinions regarding you and your fellow farangs who constantly discuss Thailand and its people. Foreigners who live in the Land of Smiles should also be subject to criticism just as Thais are subject to the onslaught of denunciations that you people are constantly throwing at us. The relationship between farangs and Thais goes sour, and and you still wonder why? People like you have only yourselves to blame.

I don't feel that you have communicated your point clearly enough. Your perspective is very interesting and I am sure many of us would like to understand it better. Are you saying that the regard of Thais towards western foreigners has soured because we openly talk critically about some of the negative things we encounter in our new home? I am not sure you are saying that, just asking.

Well dude, i think i got the point..

I think what she was trying to say was that some expats have an unquenchable thirst to attack everything Thai, while not being able to see that their own thoughts and faults can sometimes be the root of the problem...and hence therefor having a distinct INABILITY to ever even consider the fact that altering their own thinking might help solve the problem somewhat.

Not you JT, i have learnt that you are at least a thinker who always presents a reasonable,if not logical argument to bolster your opinions..which i always agree with and find fair..

The sad thing is that some people (of all cultures) allow their thinking to become skewed from one bad experience of one bad person of bad attitude (of a differant race) and they never really forget the "incident" in the back of thier mind, hence all others of that race are to be tainted with the same brush...

Then again maybe we are all like that to a certain extent?

As much as i like her, my best Thai female friend is notorious for this kind of thinking even when it doesnt involve farangs or people in general..

the example: thai friend will avoid a certain marketplace at all costs (even when its most convenient) because her mother saw a rat there some 15 years or so ago!!