Stitched Up By Friend

[Matan]

Contact a loan shark. Offer him 50% of any monies collected.

Yeah that's what I was going to suggest... if you do it yourself you'll be lucky to get anything back, if you hire a loan shark you can get 100k+ !

[jackr]

Contact a loan shark. Offer him 50% of any monies collected.

I reckon I'd also go this route to also get the wind up him (and a bit of karma back) as opposed to letting him off and getting nowhere with the system.

[Maizefarmer]

Contact a loan shark. Offer him 50% of any monies collected.

Loansharking - even in Thailand - normally has a paper contract to back it up: the OP doesn't have that - yes, he has evidence that he gave x amount to his friend, but not that it was as a loan, and for a lone shark to be willing to take the debt on (and they do buy debts in Thailand - and they'll pay no more than around 30% of the loan value), they will want to see a loan contract and the terms of repayment.

The Op needs to have this debt acknowledged as a loan - he needs to get the debitor to agree to repayment terms - on paper, which with a bit of luck he agree to whether or not he intends to pay it, and hopefully he'll sign on the dotted line before realising that the repayment terms will amount to an acknowldegement of the debt.

At the moment the OP only has evidence that he gave so-and-so an amount of money - not that it was a loan, or that there are any terms attached to it - at least thats how I understand the situation(?).

[Hazri]

How about going to the Singaporean Embassy to report this matter. Maybe they can help?

[sassienie]

To the OP:

In cases of debt, this is classified under civil law and not criminal law.

Your only option is to take the guy to the civil court which under Thailand’s antiquated legal system can take several years and be a very costly experience, legal fees in which maybe you cant get back.

If the guy does not have the available funds or assets to pay back the loan, than all the court can do is make an order for the guy to pay any amount he can afford in instalments or write the debt off all together. In over words, you can’t squeeze blood out of a stone.

Be careful about naming and shaming anyone in Thailand. There are strict defamatory laws here and you could be in big trouble under the criminal Acts.

Edited November 28, 2009 by sassienie

[Maizefarmer]

To the OP:

In cases of debt, this is classified under civil law and not criminal law.

Your only option is to take the guy to the civil court which under Thailand’s antiquated legal system can take several years and be a very costly experience, legal fees in which maybe you cant get back.

If the guy does not have the available funds or assets to pay back the loan, than all the court can do is make an order for the guy to pay any amount he can afford in instalments or write the debt off all together. In over words, you can’t squeeze blood out of a stone.

Be careful about naming and shaming anyone in Thailand. There are strict defamatory laws here and you could be in big trouble under the criminal Acts.

Very valid points - thsi si a civil matter in upper case letters - and it has the potential to draw out through the courts over a long long time. To pursue the matter in the courts is to hope the debtor doesn't turn up at a hearing and challenge the creditors claims - things can actually move quite fast if the debtor doesn't turn up to challenge anything in a hearing - but otherwise, there will be a lot of yawning taking place ....................

[sassienie]

The problem in all these cases, the same worldwide, is that, for example if I was to steal 200000 baht out of macanello`s pocket or fraudulently obtained his bank details and withdrew the amount from his bank account, that would be a criminal offence and I would be facing a long prison term.

But if I was to ask macanello for a loan of 200000 baht with no intentions of paying him back and he couldn’t prove that was my intentions, than under the law, that’s a civil offence and all macanello could do is live in hope that he may obtain his money back in full.

In fact stealing the 200000 baht or deliberately not paying it back as a loan amounts to the same thing, yet the law sees this differently.

The law’s an ass, as they say in the textbooks.

[Kf6vci]

I hear you. the guy likely jas the means to repay you. And he simply found a nich market - he is targeting suckers for loans.

Even if you never collect one Baht, try to end this business or make it so unpleasant that he opts to pay you.

Generally speaking, people gotta live within their means. A;; that

borrowing is bad. if they cannot afford something, they shouldn't.

Most families have a black sheep who swindles every one, any time they can.

Then never keep their promises.

Hamlet: Neither a borrower nor a lender be...

***

Q: is there something like SCC? He can be served. Drag him to court by yourself!

All you need is a moonlighting Thai lawyer to do the paperwork and to accompany

you privately.

Chris

[stinkyfarang]

ya gotta solve this problem thai stylez. that means, get some willing local, skinny win motosai drivers to have a discussion with him. Pay them for their assistance and problem solved. In the first instance where your friend doesnt comply, then you encourage vigorous discussions.

You should pick your friends more carefully and certainly not lend them money. i pity the fool.

[jaiyenyen]

You have my sympathies Macanello, an unpaid loan is a bitter pill to swallow.

In the day's when I had some savings, I was asked to loan money to friends and family. After being bitten once, I asked anyone requesting a loan, to sign over land or property for the duration of the loan. The loans were interest free, but if they defaulted, they lost their assets.

I've never seen Thai's run so fast

[IMA_FARANG]

Let me tell you what NOT to do.

Do not publicly revela his name, address, etc.

Under the Thai Libel laws it does not matter if the information is true or not....you can be prosecuted for defaming his character...even if the information is true.

Secondly, if you mention the person's name on Thai Visa forum you will have it deleted anyhow, and may be banned from the forum.

So don't do that.

And as for the loan...you need to a least consult a lawyer about the posiblilty of getting the money back.

Few people on this forum are actual lawyers....and I'm not a lawyer either.

[PEP]

# My Mam Said never loan money to friends , that way you keep friends.

Amen to that! MY ma said "Lend money to a "friend" and you will recieve it back from an "Enemy!'

Dosen't help the current situation though. My bet would be to walk away and write it off without paying more money to "blood-suckers"

[Latindancer]

Keep your relations nice and gentlemanly for as long as possible, whilst collecting evidence about it as a loan.....recordings etc.

When things get nasty, there is no going back to being nice.

[hughben]

# My Mam Said never loan money to friends , that way you keep friends.

Amen to that! MY ma said "Lend money to a "friend" and you will recieve it back from an "Enemy!'

Reminds me of a scene in the last season of the Sopranos.

There is a quote "Never lend money to friends"

We've all done it, and although I never lost anywhere near the same as the OP it taught me a lesson.

I wrote it off and suggest a bank loan is more suitable in the future.

OP, may I suggest a sheet written in Thai admitting he took out the loan and plans to pay it back.

Have an English version with something he wouldn't be bothered about signing, i.e. this is a declaration stating I have know Mr. X for x amount of years and is of sound character and is etc etc

Tell him it is for something like a deposit for something or anything else and try and have him sign the both.

Maybe a night in a bar and a few jars down his throat with a bar girl on his lap could help?

It would mean you don't broach the loan issue too much.

Total silence on the issue would garner suspicion.

I would spend a month or two on it. Slowly introduce that you plan to do this or that. Gradually make out you may need his help.

Even mention there could be money involved for him down the line.

Get documents supporting what you could do - like brochures etc.

Here's another idea:

Get hold of an empty box for a widescreen TV.

Fill it with bricks and have a Thai guy in a uniform of sorts drop it off in a van at his place.

Make sure the Singaporean guy is the only one home.

Have the Thai guy produce the declaration written in Thai that the Singaporean took out a loan etc and when he accepts the TV he will have to sign he received it - signing the declaration.

Make sure he is aware the TV has been paid for.

Judging by his greed, he may accept it and sign the sheet.

Edited November 29, 2009 by hughben

[manarak]

I think filing a complaint for fraud with the police should have some effect.

Either the guy doesn't turn up at the station, and this will make him suspicious, or the guy shows up and he will have to explain the reason for the transfer of 200.000 baht from your account to his.

Maybe he will argue that the loan should be paid back in a year or imagine an outright lie - but he will have to sign the police record.

And... you never know, maybe that guy already had problems with the police, so he will even pay back and ask you to cancel your complaint.

Another possibility is that when you file your complaint, you explain very carefully your situation to the officer, "if only someone could help" and "I would even be ready to collect less than I originally lended"... and watch their face.

[Soutpeel]

# My Mam Said never loan money to friends , that way you keep friends.

Amen to that! MY ma said "Lend money to a "friend" and you will recieve it back from an "Enemy!'

Reminds me of a scene in the last season of the Sopranos.

There is a quote "Never lend money to friends"

We've all done it, and although I never lost anywhere near the same as the OP it taught me a lesson.

I wrote it off and suggest a bank loan is more suitable in the future.

OP, may I suggest a sheet written in Thai admitting he took out the loan and plans to pay it back.

Have an English version with something he wouldn't be bothered about signing, i.e. this is a declaration stating I have know Mr. X for x amount of years and is of sound character and is etc etc

Tell him it is for something like a deposit for something or anything else and try and have him sign the both.

Maybe a night in a bar and a few jars down his throat with a bar girl on his lap could help?

It would mean you don't broach the loan issue too much.

Total silence on the issue would garner suspicion.

I would spend a month or two on it. Slowly introduce that you plan to do this or that. Gradually make out you may need his help.

Even mention there could be money involved for him down the line.

Get documents supporting what you could do - like brochures etc.

Here's another idea:

Get hold of an empty box for a widescreen TV.

Fill it with bricks and have a Thai guy in a uniform of sorts drop it off in a van at his place.

Make sure the Singaporean guy is the only one home.

Have the Thai guy produce the declaration written in Thai that the Singaporean took out a loan etc and when he accepts the TV he will have to sign he received it - signing the declaration.

Make sure he is aware the TV has been paid for.

Judging by his greed, he may accept it and sign the sheet.

Scouser by any chance ???.....

[hhgz]

" so called friend borrowed 200,000 baht from me in february and it should have been paid back by March...I know it was stupid of me to do this in the first instance but all I need now is some helpful advice on what I can legally do."

Since you had him sign an IOU - right? - what were the stipulations of the repayment and penalty for non-payment?

[Tolley]

Why did you lend this guy the money in the first place?

I don't really understand....would you lend me 200k baht i need some money for Xmas shopping.

Had people in the past ask me for money and I usually say something like " Do i look like a bank?"

Seriously can't understand why you would lend someone a big amount like that.

I have given people i know a few thousand baht if they were broke but i don't really expect it back and i definitely am not in the business of throwing away 200k baht.

[pubba]

I hope you can get some of the money back, somehow..

200 thousand baht is a huge amount of money for me. I owe a TV member 1,600 for an item that they sent me in goodwill and I already feel bad about not being able to pay until next week.

How do these scammers sleep at night? I'm guessing it's on a very expensive bed..

[maccaroni man]

i am almost a pro at this, i seem to never learn my lesson but one thing i did learn was how to get a little harmless revenge. i went to the local lotus and on the post it board put a notice listing a lot of nice things big screen lcd, the type of truck the guy drove etc and priced them at dirt cheap but beleivable prices then i put his number and said only call after 2100 hrs. they guy moved within a month of me posting btw keep replacing the sign because once they figure out where people are getting his number it will be gone.

[sassienie]

" so called friend borrowed 200,000 baht from me in february and it should have been paid back by March...I know it was stupid of me to do this in the first instance but all I need now is some helpful advice on what I can legally do."

Since you had him sign an IOU - right? - what were the stipulations of the repayment and penalty for non-payment?

The only legal action option availible is to take it to the civil court.

The plantiff can claim back, the loan amount, interest at the going bank rate over the time of due payment and any expenses incurred such as postage, loss of work and phone calls ect.

That`s it I`m afraid and of course first you have to research that the guy has the funds to pay back and can be traced, otherwise there is no reason to take this to court.

Sorry, these are not my views but the law as imposed by the civil acts.

[tommybkk]

The only way to get your money back is by doing it the hard way.

[DLock]

To get your money back, you have to out think him and play a few mind games.

I assume you have both his phone number and email address. I also assume you know his full name and you say you have his family address in Singapore as well. Good start.

You need to collect as much information on him as you can - family members names and addresses (here and Singapore), company name, vehicle details, places he frequents, and if you can find out more personal information like bank accounts, drivers licences, all the better. That's information is not that difficult to find out.

Let him know what you have without telling him what you plan to do with it. Let him worry about what might happen. Guys like him usually dont care what happens to them and have done this many time before, but most have a soft spot for family and their job.

Most will at least come to the table and work out a payment plan.

Debt collectors wont touch this without clear documentation. People here have some TV inspired perception of debt collectors. They dont break peoples legs to collect money. It's all done within the law and must be a clearly documented debt. Somchai isn't a debt collector, so don't even think about him.

I'm always amazed at the response to these types of posts and the only options are to walk away, break his legs or call the police. The fact that these guys keep doing this is beacuse none of these options work, so the guy keeps getting away with it.

Out think him may take a bit of time and effort, but it works.

[Latindancer]

Correct ! I agree with everything DLock says. Avoid confrontation. Just collect information whilst politely insisting you need the money back. ____It is to his advantage to try to make confrontation_____.....then he can say that he's running from you because of the bad way you are behaving towards him. If I can offer only ONE piece of advice it is to not let him pull you off balance emotionally, and to ALWAYS keep it polite.....until the very end, when you put the screws on. Think about the martial art Aikido.......you step sideways and go WITH your opponent, keeping him in a slight wristlock, only making it a stronger wristlock if he resists...reversing everything and dumping him only at the very end.

I was in this situation a few years ago in Australia. I secretly got recordings of him admitting to the loan, took him to Civil Court, and won ! I even did all the work myself, whereas he employed a solicitor and barrister.

(It was a slightly more complex situation : the loan was to be used for investment ).

Edited November 30, 2009 by Latindancer

[cognos]

m thai brother in law was taken for 5 million baht 10 years ago by a close "friend"..never mind how..suffice to say at age 60 he is taking a masters degree..this guy is a family man, and jai dee mak mak

[howto]

The only way to get your money back is by doing it the hard way.

Yes I totally agree.

To get your money back, you have to out think him and play a few mind games.

Well the OP seems to have only 1 brain cell, doubt he can out think him

I assume you have both his phone number and email address. I also assume you know his full name and you say you have his family address in Singapore as well. Good start.

You need to collect as much information on him as you can - family members names and addresses (here and Singapore), company name, vehicle details, places he frequents, and if you can find out more personal information like bank accounts, drivers licences, all the better. That's information is not that difficult to find out.

Agreed, but it can be difficult to find out

Let him know what you have without telling him what you plan to do with it. Let him worry about what might happen. Guys like him usually dont care what happens to them and have done this many time before, but most have a soft spot for family and their job.

Foolish move and nobody said he has a job.

Most will at least come to the table and work out a payment plan.

Don't bet on it.

Debt collectors wont touch this without clear documentation. People here have some TV inspired perception of debt collectors. They dont break peoples legs to collect money. It's all done within the law and must be a clearly documented debt. Somchai isn't a debt collector, so don't even think about him.

Oh really? Don't know how long you've been here but it does actually happen, frequently.

I'm always amazed at the response to these types of posts and the only options are to walk away, break his legs or call the police. The fact that these guys keep doing this is beacuse none of these options work, so the guy keeps getting away with it.

There are other options...

I don't agree with "walk away", "breaking legs", "involving police or the courts".

But a sound beating is called for, fear and intimidation works wonders.

In every country.

Out think him may take a bit of time and effort, but it works.

Yeah, 3 years and 400K down the toilet with no results.

A bit cynical am I? Been here done that.

[mrtoad]

The only way to get your money back is by doing it the hard way.

Yes I totally agree.

To get your money back, you have to out think him and play a few mind games.

Well the OP seems to have only 1 brain cell, doubt he can out think him

I assume you have both his phone number and email address. I also assume you know his full name and you say you have his family address in Singapore as well. Good start.

You need to collect as much information on him as you can - family members names and addresses (here and Singapore), company name, vehicle details, places he frequents, and if you can find out more personal information like bank accounts, drivers licences, all the better. That's information is not that difficult to find out.

Agreed, but it can be difficult to find out

Let him know what you have without telling him what you plan to do with it. Let him worry about what might happen. Guys like him usually dont care what happens to them and have done this many time before, but most have a soft spot for family and their job.

Foolish move and nobody said he has a job.

Most will at least come to the table and work out a payment plan.

Don't bet on it.

Debt collectors wont touch this without clear documentation. People here have some TV inspired perception of debt collectors. They dont break peoples legs to collect money. It's all done within the law and must be a clearly documented debt. Somchai isn't a debt collector, so don't even think about him.

Oh really? Don't know how long you've been here but it does actually happen, frequently.

I'm always amazed at the response to these types of posts and the only options are to walk away, break his legs or call the police. The fact that these guys keep doing this is beacuse none of these options work, so the guy keeps getting away with it.

There are other options...

I don't agree with "walk away", "breaking legs", "involving police or the courts".

But a sound beating is called for, fear and intimidation works wonders.

In every country.

Out think him may take a bit of time and effort, but it works.

Yeah, 3 years and 400K down the toilet with no results.

A bit cynical am I? Been here done that.

Firstly, let me tell you that you are not following net etiquette in respect of your reply. As to you insinuating that the OP has one brain cell, you are way, way off the mark boy - people do silly things from time to time -as I am sure you have done, no need to try and show off your own self opinionated superiority. All he is asking for is advice, and so far there have been some pretty helpful replies. Keep it to the advice rather than assuming stuff.

As for being cynical, yes so am I - been there and been burnt on several occasions. Keep to the topic, rather than bash the OP.

[DLock]

See, the problem with threatening someone, is that if you don't carry out that threat, the other guy gets stronger.

If you truly believe a good beating is the way to make him pay, that's your perogative. I've seen it work and I've seen it fail big time. Fear and intimidation is great in theory, but is usually reserved for the intellectually challenged.

But most of the people I have worked with are not prepared to threaten anyone, nor give a beat down. They are smarter than that and the money is usually substantial. Don't get me wrong, many times I've wanted to beat the absolute bejesus out of people, but I know from experience and some "down time" to thnk about it, it rarely works.

If done within the law, and intelligently, then 90% of cases can be solved amicably.

Done stupidly and acting on emotion and lack of control can get you in some serious problems and still not get your money back.

I think you saying that the OP has "one brain cell" is the defintion of irony.

Carry on.

[Chonburiram]

Once,

On a flight to Singapore, a nice Singapore-chinese chap told me, that Singaporeans

convicted on drug- related crimes abroad, fear nothing more than extradition to their

homecountry... even after 20 years in a Thai prison...

CB

[macanello]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I saw a lawyer today and had a few papers drawn up.

I have the Singaporean non paying loan guy in a much better position now. As he is of Chinese origin, he will probably not like what is going to happen,

As per someone's advice here I have had a lawyer draw up a post contract for the afore mentioned loan (which he, the Singaporean) is willing to sign. I also have his bank details, address here in bkk as well as in Singapore, and his identity card number and copy of it as well.

I have had contact with Singapore and some friends are going to help me there as well.

I have one brain cell mingled together with thousands of others and I am playing it Jai yen yen.

Macanello