UK Drug Convict Sandra Gregory Held At Bangkok Airport

[Brigante7]

Halfwit.

Brigante7.

[PhilHarries]

I've read through the replies since my last visit and seem to remember something about her having done her time so the slate's wiped clean (sorry can't be ar5ed going back to find it). Thing is she was arrested and convicted in Thailand, convicted to 25 years (?), and then received a Royal pardon (?) and went back to serve the rest of her time in the UK (if she was "pardoned" why wasn't she released?). Under the UK rules of releasing all manner of low lifes back into society she was let out. Now she wants to return to Thailand, therefore like any of us she is subject to the whims of Thai immigration and they have told her to combine sex with travel.

What's the beef?

If someone comes round my house to a party and p1sses on the rug then wants an invite to the next bash it is my perogative to tell them to take their sour water someplace else.

[FatherF]

I've read through the replies since my last visit and seem to remember something about her having done her time so the slate's wiped clean (sorry can't be ar5ed going back to find it). Thing is she was arrested and convicted in Thailand, convicted to 25 years (?), and then received a Royal pardon (?) and went back to serve the rest of her time in the UK (if she was "pardoned" why wasn't she released?). Under the UK rules of releasing all manner of low lifes back into society she was let out. Now she wants to return to Thailand, therefore like any of us she is subject to the whims of Thai immigration and they have told her to combine sex with travel.

What's the beef?

If someone comes round my house to a party and p1sses on the rug then wants an invite to the next bash it is my perogative to tell them to take their sour water someplace else.

Completely Agree!

FF

[termad]

The consul that issued that visa has some 'splainin to do. A major lapse in judgement.

Although sympathetic to her statement, <deleted> was she thinking? It was obvious someone was going to say no at some point. The Thai government, any government for that matter, doesn't want this type of visitor.

Not sure if a consul has a list of evey person blacklisted.

Remember, getting a visa only means you are allowed to travel to Thailand and ask for permission to enter. It does not mean you will get that permission. The permission to enter is a seperate thing, which can be denied.

Yes I understand your point and I alluded to that in my 2nd part, but obviously I wasn't clear enough. Me bad.

Here's why I think someone may have screwed up;

- If a UK passport holder can get into Thailand using the 30 day visa waiver, she would have been able to drag that out to 3X30 days if she did a visa run thingie. Was her intent to stay longer, which doesn't sound right if she said she just wanted to tie up loose ends and visit some friends, or maybe,

- She was aware of Section 12, Part 6 of the Immigration Act for the Kingdom of Thailand that says someone is prohibited entry when;

Having been convicted by judgment of a Thai court or a foreign court and imprisoned, except for petty offenses or offenses committed by negligence.

Is it possible that she made an effort to address that exclusion by seeking a "visa"? Obviously, what she needed was a waiver from the Minister (which she would never have received).

It would be interesting to know what she requested and what the answer was from the consul.

I surprised that, as the immigration bureau have been bragging about their-up dated computer system, the RTE in London obviously weren't able to check on the same computer and refuse her a visa.

[anon8]

so much for the recent 'Visa Crackdown', oh, wait, I guess hers wasn't back to back

Still, return to country where you were sentenced to DEATH.. what's in her mind? What loose ends? To inquire about HM Kings pardon details? Some paperwork did not add up? Claim the Tax Refund for those Louise Vuitton sunglasses she forgot about in 93?

???

[anon8]

/quote

user: timbothaivisa

Wonder if she was a planning a 'Kill Bill' special - that would have wrapped up a loose end & put a ghost to rest..

/end quote

I get it now! the 'Kill Bill' angel! I wonder if she was planning to ride the same yellow superbike as in part 2.. or opt for new green Kawasaki Ninja.

I'd go for the Kawa!

[cmdream]

Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

So much for honors degree from Oxford

[DegenFarang]

So is that how I can get into Oxford? Get caught with a condom full of heroin up my arse?

[Maestro]

Correct! Any Thai consul will take your dosh but it doesn't mean you have any rite to enter the Kingdom.

I am not sure of that! The Consulates are supposed to issue the visa upon checking the person's identity! And that includes checking whether these persons are blacklisted or not. Every peron's application has to be checked this way, either at the Consulate itself or at the Ministry Of Foreign Affairs of the country concerned...

You say you’re not sure of it but you make your own statement with much conviction. Let’s see if we can find some official source on the subject.

The visa validity is the length of time you are permitted to travel to a port-of-entry in Thailand to request permission of the immigration officer to permit you to enter Thailand. The visa does not guarantee entry to Thailand.

Source: http://www.imm.police.go.th/nov2004/conten...axpiredate.html

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Maestro

[Maestro]

A troll post about the requirements to enter Australia and the replies to it have been deleted. Please do not fee the trolls.

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Maestro

[certified]

Maybe the Thais wanted her to get this far to make an example out of her. She's lucky she was stopped where she was. Can you imagine if they tailed her and caught her again?

[MB1]

Loose ends is when she made some drug business tie/connections/contacts to better smugle drugs thru and out of the kingdom. Once a junky always a junky! Some people never learn because the craving for dugs is just too great.

I suggest you read her book, she was not a junky, she was a 'mule'.

And I thought that she had already returned to Thailand previously, before this time.

And you believe what she wrote in her book? I locked up drug dealers for years and have no symanthy for any of them. They ruin other peoples live for there own gain. She is not really worth discussing.

Again, find out what you're talking about before opening your mouth.

She was not a drugs dealer either.

She was carrying an amount that would not even have gotten a custodial sentence in UK.

So you reckon she would not even have received a custodial sentence in the UK for carrying 86.9 gramme of heroin...

Some of the comments on this thread have made me laugh but that remark made me laugh longest so thanks for that.

As for Gregory returning to Thailand, I just wonder who paid for the flight, maybe the Sun Newspaper or some other rag.

[mythBuster]

She made probably a mistake again. She should have been headed to Japan, that is the country where Masochists can be find on a larger scale.

[saratoga]

What an inconvenience all this must be for her.

The nerve on some people is unbelievable.

[fsuthai]

I'm really surprised at how many hawkish, repressive law & order freaks comment here. I haven't read her book and didn't know of her case but, IMHO, I think she deserves a fair second chance and a modicum of respect for her efforts to restore her life. After all, she received a Royal Pardon (not a parole, or reprieve of the death sentence---which is totally insane anyhow!) and was traveling on 'legitimate' documents. There are a lot of people with much more heinous criminal histories walking around freely in a lot of other countries. Quit tossing those righteous stones 'cause I doubt any of you are transgression free!

[Whale]

I think a lot of you are being a bit harsh - poor girl probably feels more Thai than Brit after her "time". Surely a Royal pardon is enough?

Next time you are paying a corrupt policeman 200 baht for not giving you a ticket you deserve, consider she made a mistake also, just a much bigger one. She got her pardon from a "higher authority" than you.

[LaoPo]

Still not a lot of compassion or forgiveness from all these long-time ThaiVisa 'residents'. A lot seem to be bitter and twisted and the "hang 'em high" mentality prevails.

What a sad, distrustful and unfeeling bunch we appear to be this Thursday morning.

I agree.

Forgiveness is something many never heard of and don't know HOW to deal with and that's sad

HOW TO FORGIVE

One of the thorniest and most difficult things we humans are ever called upon to do is to respond to evil with kindness, and to forgive the unforgivable. We love to read stories about people who have responded to hatred with love, but when that very thing is demanded of us personally, our default seems to be anger, angst, depression, righteousness, hatred, etc. Yet study after study shows that one of the keys to longevity and good health is to develop a habit of gratitude and let go of past hurts.

Want to live a long, happy life? Forgive the unforgivable. It really is the kindest thing you can do for yourself. Your enemy may not deserve to be forgiven for all the pain and sadness and suffering purposefully inflicted on your life, but you deserve to be free of this evil. As Ann Landers often said, "hate is like an acid. It destroys the vessel in which it is stored."

In other words it takes more energy to hate a person then it does to forgive and let go so you can move on with your life. Most people will either mull over or fester in the pain and roll in over and over again for years when they don't realize that it is a lot of wasted energy.

From: http://www.wikihow.com/Forgive

Many people (including myself) make/made many mistakes in their lives and later wish they never acted the way they did; didn't do the bad things upon others, whether as acts or by spoken or written words, thoughts even.

We consider ourselves, many times, as infallible and judge about others who made even more unspeakable mistakes.

We are the judges!

Are we ?

Look in the mirror and we will know.

LaoPo

[Hanuman2547]

I understand the general sentiments being expressed here...but I'm a bit confused about the legal terminology being involved.

As to her case, the article first says she had the death sentence COMMUTED to 25 years. OK, that makes sense, and that means she still had a legal Thai conviction.

But then it says she was PARDONED. Generally, receiving a pardon, at least elsewhere, means the conviction is taken off the legal books, I think...

If she was pardoned, then what would still exist on her legal record to prevent her entering the Kingdom???

I agree with what you said...........except you're applying western logic to an Asian way of thinking. TIT....and they do many baffling things

[neverdie]

Halfwit.

Brigante7.

Your being a bit harsh on yourself Brigante7.

[Maestro]

A nonsensical post about immigration procedure has been deleted.

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Maestro

[alyx]

I didn't know about the case and really don't care but what puzzles me is the harshness of some of the posters

I do hope I will never cross their path as I am sure I would be found guilty and sentenced for it (motive: who cares?? wrong time, wrong place)

It does really frighten me and can't help thinking about all these self-righteous people who have been so active in the past (Great Inquisition, Salem, Tutsis and Hutus, Serbia...History is full of these people) but I guess that it is what the World is made of and it is quite sad

They pass judgment for the sake of it and nothing will deviate them from their Duty, not even the truth, let alone forgiveness or whatever you call it

Edited December 3, 2009 by alyx

[ukrules]

They pass judgment for the sake of it and nothing will deviate them from their Duty, not even the truth, let alone forgiveness or whatever you call it

You're right, there are plenty of 'haters' here.

[khundon]

Loose ends is when she made some drug business tie/connections/contacts to better smugle drugs thru and out of the kingdom. Once a junky always a junky! Some people never learn because the craving for dugs is just too great.

I suggest you read her book, she was not a junky, she was a 'mule'.

And I thought that she had already returned to Thailand previously, before this time.

And you believe what she wrote in her book? I locked up drug dealers for years and have no symanthy for any of them. They ruin other peoples live for there own gain. She is not really worth discussing.

Again, find out what you're talking about before opening your mouth.

She was not a drugs dealer either.

She was carrying an amount that would not even have gotten a custodial sentence in UK.

But she was'nt in the UK when she got caught with an illegal substance. Anyone who does such as this in Thailand, has to be pretty stupid.

After all, the Thai authorities make it plain that DRUGS = DEATH in Thailand and she knew it.

If she did get away with it, who is to say she would not try it again for money.

As for the UK drug laws, they are going to hel_l in a hand cart.

Edited December 3, 2009 by khundon

[ukrules]

But she was'nt in the UK when she got caught with an illegal substance. Anyone who does such as this in Thailand, has to be pretty stupid.

After all, the Thai authorities make it plain that DRUGS = DEATH in Thailand and she knew it.

Drug possession is a more heinous crime in Thailand than murder, rape, etc, etc. This shows a major distortion of moral values on the part of the lawmakers.

[theoldgit]

There seems to be come confusion with the term "Royal Pardon" which allowed this lady to be released from prison in the UK. A Royal Pardon is the forgiveness of a crime and the penalty associated with it by the King, it doesn't mean that she wasn't actually regarded guilty it's an act of compassion and is often given, usually after lobbying by the government.

After receiving her sentence it was reduced by three years during a general amnesty by the King, again this is pretty normal in Thailand and is usually associated with a special event such as a special birthday or the like, and is something prisoners in Thailand factor in their plans for the future.

Somebody mentioned earlier that she wanted to serve out her time in Thailand to which I indicated that she must have applied for repatriation and indeed this was the case. She was taken back to the UK and initially held at Holloway Prison where her allocation would have been decided, all repatriated women are sent there as all repatriated men initially go to Wandsworth Prison. She was allocated to Durham Prison which as was pointed yesterday holds Category A prisoners such as Rosie West, again there is nothing abnormal in this given the length of her sentence. She was later transferred to Cookham Wood Prison which at the time was a secure establishment for females, and is pretty nice compared with Durham.

After her repatriation back to The UK the government did not push for a pardon, again this is quite normal, she would have been expected to serve out the remainder of her sentence though she would have been eligible for parole half way through her sentence or automatic release two thirds of the way through her sentence. Her parents became activists and fought for her pardon which was eventually given in 2001, she was released having been in prison for 8 years.

Hope this background information clears any confusion, to sum up a Royal Pardon doesn't mean she was not regarded as guilty it was an act of compassion by The King on behalf of the Thai people.

One more point, and this has been mentioned earlier, she has stated that she is disappointed in her actions as, among other things, it will mean that she will not be able to return to "the country I grew to love", so it beggars the question why did she put her through this latest ordeal?

[Siripon]

I saw a man from Denmark on TV last week after being arrested in Thailand for massive VAT fraud in his home country. A reporter asked him why he chose to come here, he said because he loved Thailand.

Now Sandra Gregory says the same.

I think the TAT should be able to use this in their next campaign, ' Amazing Thailand, you can check out, but you can never leave.'

[fiercesnake]

An Oxford Honours degree and not an ounce of common-sense! <deleted>! Is she a complete loon?

They commuted the death sentence for a drug dealer. Really I'm stunned to think she thought she would be welcomed back with open arms. Too stunned to think; Oxford degree, and doesn't understand how most governments and administrations feel about drugs, even if it did happen a few years ago.

That's one thing they take REAL serious here-drug dealers. Probably lucky she wasn't around during Thaksin's clean out on drug dealers as clearly this thread wouldn't even exist had that been the case!

[JFitzgerald]

Does anyone know or has read whether the Hull consulate was the issuing authority?

If so, is there any likelihood that this may have an impact on their status to continue issuing visas?

Do you think the Thai Foreign Ministry is efficient enough to provide all the details of foreign ex-cons in a searchable format to all consulates? I doubt it very much. I am sure they are happy to rely on Immigration to field them instead. People who apply for visas should know if they are persona non grata and save their time and money. I don't think it's the consul's responsibility. The purpose of the visas is purely to make money, not for screening purposes. It's not as if they require an extensive pile of documents or an interview.

I'm not sure if Immigration shares their database of blacklisted individuals with Thai consulates or not, same as you.

She's certainly not a run-of-the-mill blacklisted person, having had a death sentence imposed on her. One might suppose that that might have separated her from the over-stayers et al, but again, I'm not sure.

I'm just wondering if there will be any fallout from this incident. Reminiscent of the same with the flak that consulates took following the John Mark Karr incident. Even though he didn't obtain his visa from a consulate in the USA and subsequently was not prosecuted, almost all of the consulates, indeed it could be all, are no longer as easy with issuing non-O visas as before. Whether there is a direct correlation or not with that incident is unknown, but the timing is there. I'm aware she came on a tourist visa from the UK, but still, this sort of adverse publicity can only bring about scrutiny over the issuance of those as well. As Hull is one of the last vestiges of "easy" visas remaining anywhere in the world, I thought may be even their immunity might be in question if they were the ones who issued the visa to Sandra Gregory.

Edited December 4, 2009 by JFitzgerald

[asiawatcher]

What idiot in Thai Consulate gave her a Visa in the UK?

[Tafia]

After being found guilty ,sentenced to death then a pardon the thais must think after a short term in a uk jail then returning to thailand is taking the p1ss, im inclined to agree,.

Was she convicted in the UK? Because technically after the pardon, she was free to leave and not subject to e.g. completing her life sentence in a British prison. Seems that she went straight from KP to study.

What surprises me is that 16 years have passed since her conviction, meaning that she may have been under arrest possibly a year longer, what loose ends were there? It has been 9 years since her pardon, why the timing? Anyway, it would have been wiser to meet her loose ends across the border in a friendly country, Malaysia or the current place for people to go who do not want to be caught in Thailand, Cambodia.

The photo for the article is not current, I believe?

She was repatriated to a british prison from where she petitioned the king and was granted a pardon, which in turn would effect her release.

A Royal Pardon doesn't mean she was not regarded as guilty it was an act of compassion by The King on behalf of the Thai people and it occurs on special occasions like the Kings Birthday etc...

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tafia