Thai National's Living Cost And Things They Have

[gravion]

Im wondering how thai ppl have cars, electronics, just being generally happy with their life.

Becuz mostlikely they earn like 7000-10000baht per month, and they gotta pay rent, power, net, etc.

I know a person whos parents work as a sompat cook... which i assume is not much income coming in. but the person seems to be happy allround, dressed nicely,clean, attending uni and got some gadgets etc.

I heard some1 saying they have huge debt and have different mentality compareted to ordinals..

what u long expats opinion bout this?

[MonsieurHulot]

'pinion bout tis? Dunno.

[anonymouse]

I fink they have different mentality compareted to ordinals

[gotlost]

HUH

[beano2274]

many are hugely in Debt.

Watched Thai news saw many business going bust as they let people have the goods after the customer gave them a cheque, but the cheques bounced, the businesses could do nothing.

Take a look in a Thais wallet or purse, and notice how many credit cards there are.

[Yimmy]

Park their big new Hilux (bought with the lowest down payment and longest repayment option) outside their wooden shack.

Different mentality, and the need for face.

Luckily for us we put life before face.

[Yimmy]

And only about 50% of thais earn 7k p/m. And they aren't the 50% that have cars.

[anonymouse]

What is this, some sort of village idiot convention descending on the CM forum

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A lot of people in the Chiang Mai area are really quite wealthy. People seem to think of Thailand as a poor country, but when you spend a longer time here you realize it's a country with a lot of poor people in it, but also MANY middle class people and quite a few who are wealthy by any standard.

You're right that basic office jobs pay aroun 10K if that, but keep in mind that the people who do those jobs are already up from their background of poor labourers. It's mostly burmese and hill tribe doing the really basic jobs these days. And then there's a lot of people doing any kind of trading, farming, etc. That can pay enough for a reasonable middle class income.

[stolidfeline]

I'd like you to consider one of my friends. He earns 11000 baht a month. His wife also cooks some food and sells it, they are not really poor, but not really middle class. They are like the majority of people working and living in Bangkok. But they are obsessed with face and keep buying things they do not need. Their whole existence currently goes into struggling to pay for the things which they cannot afford. They have no life at all.

They live in a dreadful one room apartment with their 2 kids. They sleep in one bed or on the floor. They eat really awful food from street stalls, mostly rice, some meals they cook at home. For example, one small fish feeds the whole family - with huge helpings of the cheapest rice. I never saw them buy any vegetables. The kids go to the cheapest (government) school.

They have a pickup and a computer, and a new LCD color TV. The computer has not enough memory to work properly, and anyway they don't really understand it. After 6 months the DVD drive is broken and so is the stand for the monitor, which also has scratches all over the screen. Needless to say they both have quite expensive mobile phones. More often than not they are not working because they can't afford to top up the SIM card.

The pickup stays mostly in the car park. On the few occasions they have travelled in it, they have had accidents and smashed it up. They mostly ride their motorbike. The pickup still has almost 3 years to pay I believe.

Their total repayments for all this lot exceeds their income. They already borrowed from anyone they can, and eventually the loan sharks. They owe about 340,000 baht to various sources. Pretty soon the poop is going to hit the fan and already they are desperately trying to borrow money to keep the loan sharks from beating them up. This did not stop them buying the new TV though!

I'm not saying this is typical of everybody, but it's pretty similar to a lot of my employees. I know this because almost all of them come to ask me to guarantee their loans !!!

I have another friend who is a factory maintenance manager earning 13,000 baht. His wife is an accountant and earns 15,000 baht. 28,000 baht combined - but they still struggle with similar outgoings, however, they don't buy what they can't afford. No loan sharks.

Edited December 6, 2009 by stolidfeline

[Yimmy]

Face.

Isn't it hilarious to view from outside.

[elektrified]

Many in Chiang Mai are quite wealthy and give their kids HUGE allowances, expensive cars, etc. Others appear to have money but actually they live entirely on credit, often borrowing more money to pay other loans.

[relaxed]

I'd like you to consider one of my friends. He earns 11000 baht a month. His wife also cooks some food and sells it, they are not really poor, but not really middle class. They are like the majority of people working and living in Bangkok. But they are obsessed with face and keep buying things they do not need. Their whole existence currently goes into struggling to pay for the things which they cannot afford. They have no life at all.

They live in a dreadful one room apartment with their 2 kids. They sleep in one bed or on the floor. They eat really awful food from street stalls, mostly rice, some meals they cook at home. For example, one small fish feeds the whole family - with huge helpings of the cheapest rice. I never saw them buy any vegetables. The kids go to the cheapest (government) school.

They have a pickup and a computer, and a new LCD color TV. The computer has not enough memory to work properly, and anyway they don't really understand it. After 6 months the DVD drive is broken and so is the stand for the monitor, which also has scratches all over the screen. Needless to say they both have quite expensive mobile phones. More often than not they are not working because they can't afford to top up the SIM card.

The pickup stays mostly in the car park. On the few occasions they have travelled in it, they have had accidents and smashed it up. They mostly ride their motorbike. The pickup still has almost 3 years to pay I believe.

Their total repayments for all this lot exceeds their income. They already borrowed from anyone they can, and eventually the loan sharks. They owe about 340,000 baht to various sources. Pretty soon the poop is going to hit the fan and already they are desperately trying to borrow money to keep the loan sharks from beating them up. This did not stop them buying the new TV though!

I'm not saying this is typical of everybody, but it's pretty similar to a lot of my employees. I know this because almost all of them come to ask me to guarantee their loans !!!

I have another friend who is a factory maintenance manager earning 13,000 baht. His wife is an accountant and earns 15,000 baht. 28,000 baht combined - but they still struggle with similar outgoings, however, they don't buy what they can't afford. No loan sharks.

guess it really depends on the kind of people you make friends with. The majority of my friends in Thailand all have nice cars, take very nice vacations, own their own homes eat and drink very well. I know many Americans who are in way over their head in debt and their only option is bankruptcy.

[mcgriffith]

Having a higher perceived wealth so as to appear more, is just a simple human condition found everywhere.

I used to be in the advertising business, selling ads to car dealerships in California. Spent most of my days for many years in this environment.

Whether it was a huge Mercedes new car franchise, or the humblest sled lot in Santa Ana selling junk....they were always full of customers looking to buy with little money, to improve their image and status. Not unique to Thailand.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What is unique to Thailand however is that things that can be showed around tend to be higher up the desirability list. 'A nice home' cannot as easily be shown off as a car, cell phone or fashion so it's somewhat down the list.

There are exceptions of course. Those are the people with common sense, who see the increase in quality of life from a nice home, as well as a home being something that doesn't depreciate into thin air in a couple months/years.

[eek]

Well, there is also the other side. Those people who have some money, but dont feel the need to flash it around or be ostentatious.

Im also with McGriffith on this, that its not unique to Thailand. Ive seen documentaries of people around the world, who live in dire accommodation, and spend all their (borrowed) cash on designer products, nice cars, and flashy gadgets.

Edited December 6, 2009 by eek

[fbran]

The cost of living in Thailand is very low (aided by the lack of a welfare state and its corresponding bloated bureaucracies) so they don’t have to spend much.

[gravion]

reckon only the young thai who wanna be flash eh? especially girl?

oldies mentality is prolly different? 30-40s still most likely be show off too...

im 24 and my parents seem to have money for rest of their retirement.

but im totally opposite to most thais. i wear shitty 3 year old t-shirt with holes... my cell phone is 3 year old motorolla monochrome screen.

i also do not wish to spend much in accommo. it doesnt mean i dont like to spend money, i sometimes feel good by getting all those paper outter my wallet. iz al weeiiird cuz

[Puwa]

One of the reasons many Thais appear to be able to live beyond their means is that within families and social networks, money and substantial gifts get shared around regularly. So monthly salary from a job is only one source of income. Wealthier siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, boyfriends, good friends are expected to help out, and may do so by paying tuition, buying vehicles, making occasional cash gifts, or letting someone live rent-free. It's the traditional cultural form of social security. Combined with debt, this is what gives people the ability to buy or own things that they otherwise couldn't get. Now, whether they can "afford" these things in the sense of managing the debts, ordering priorities, or fulfilling family and social obligations is another matter.

All the comments about Thailand having wealthy people are true but not really relevant to the topic. I don't think anyone is denying that wealth exists. Though it is worth pointing out that wealth can also dry up quickly, and some people who appear to be wealthy are also in debt to their ears. One or two bad business deals--almost always involving real estate speculation--will sap up the cash quickly and set the house of cards tumbling.

The Bangkok Post recently published an editorial by Sanitsuda Ekkachai with some interesting statistics about wealth distribution in Thailand. As you might guess, most of the assets, land, and savings are with a tiny fraction of the population.

[Thakkar]

Thais are profligate, financial illiterates concerned with ostentatious display with no regard to actual affordability. This is more than a tad racist.

Living beyond one's means is an attribute found everywhere. For Asians in fact, the idea of living on credit is a relatively recent Western import.

Some choices that on first glimpse make no sense, are actually quite logical. For example, for someone with no hope of ever owning a decent-sized house, buying a shiny new iPhone is a quick way to get on par with the guy in the next cubicle, who, because of family money or any other attribute of providence, lives in a nice neighborhood.

A friend, a professional with a secure, well-paying job found himself 70% underwater with a substantial property he had bought. He had no trouble meeting the mortgage payments but owning a $9 million condo that was now worth $2.7M was such a depressing state of affairs that he was convinced he would not live to see positive value in the biggest investment of his life. So what does he do? he buys a new Mercedes Benz! I was flabbergasted, but he explained that if he was going to die in debt (the stress had given him a mild heart attack some months earlier), he might as well know what it feels like to drive around in a Benz. Bizarre, but it kind of made sense.

Some ostentatious displays have a purpose. In India: families putting up a prosperous front to ensure their daughters marry well. Amway sales reps dressing well to show they are successful in their endeavors to attract their own posy of sub-agents.

In any case, when it comes to unsustainable spending behaviour, the "silly little Thais" are in good company. Entire countries like Greece and Dubai have done the same.

[gravion]

i reckon they need to do some martial art or taichi or sumthing lol

[pjclark1]

Thais are profligate, financial illiterates concerned with ostentatious display with no regard to actual affordability. This is more than a tad racist.

Load of rubbish

Thai culture produces a nation with a population that generally act like an 8 year old in the western world. THey have few or no friends and only think of immediate gratification. They are all incredibly gullible and will believe anything and do anything a person in perceived authority tells them to do.

Mind you, I've met a few male westerners just as daft, as they cry into their beer and speak about how they built a house on the gfs family land only to be told to bog off after it was finished.

But more on topic

Have I told you about my gfs uncle in Issan. He has a brand new 4x4 Toyota pickup parked outside the family "stick hut on stilts" built over his shrimp pond. He explained to me that as only the wife and family saw the house it didn't matter. But his various 20 year old "mia nois" were attracted by the 4x4 with no trouble at all.

[Ulysses G.]

Have I told you about my gfs uncle in Issan. He has a brand new 4x4 Toyota pickup parked outside the family "stick hut on stilts" built over his shrimp pond. He explained to me that as only the wife and family saw the house it didn't matter. But his various 20 year old "mia nois" were attracted by the 4x4 with no trouble at all.

He may not be a good man, but he sounds like sensible one.

[scorecard]

Lots of true comments here but also some which are unnecessarily bashing.

In many countries people live way beyond their income. Within a couple of years of hen credit cards started in my original country there were many people in the bankruptcy court for being way over extended. It also didn't take long for the government to put pretty severe controls on the banks and punish the banks for issuing cards to people who cannot and never will be able to manage their finances.

I can recall as a teenager that I had many friends who very sucked into hire purchase finance which was heavily weighted in favor of the finance companies, and many teenagers got into financial trouble.

Here in Thailand the people who make legislation are not very likely to protect the little man and are very likely to create / allow situations whereby banks are hardly controlled.

I know this from one instance of my son arriving at university on day 2 and being asked his name, and the girl from the bank said 'here's your credit card". My son had to insist strongly that he had not asked for and did not want a credit card. The girl from the bank them told my son he was rude and she would report him to the university administration. He said "go ahead". He also said "I'm a student and I don't have any income", the reply was "don't worry about that, just ask your father to pay".

Loan sharks abound and actively target and seek out gullible people and people in trouble and are ruthless.

Various government ministries have for years offered loans to: teachers, police, and more, and I've heard many times from my Thai work colleagues that teachers, police etc., are allowed to take more loans then they can ever repay in their entire lifetime.

Personal and family status is also a large factor. Rightly or wrongly it's a strong part of Thai culture - you have to look better than your neighbor, your work colleague etc.

But let's please be realistic, Is 'keeping up with the neighbors' exclusive to Thailand?

[uptheos]

[quote name='scorecard' date='2009-12-07 18:37:22' post='3188495

But let's please be realistic, Is 'keeping up with the neighbors' exclusive to Thailand?

People like Hyacinth Bucket are in abundance everywhere.

I think keeping up with (or outdoing) the neighbours is often a farang thing here.

[chevyinasia]

It's interesting how all this "conspicuous consumption" works, in any society. The poorer someone is, the more they want to appear to have money. As you climb up the income scale, the less people care about what they have or what they look like, to the point that they wear last decade's fashions and drive last decade's cars and/or motorbikes (it could be that frugality is the reason these people end the month with a non-negative, nonzero balance). After a point, the whole face thing kicks in again and everything's got to be Louis Vuitton and BMW.

It's kind of like a financial "Uncanny Valley".

[martijn12345]

Interesting topic as this is something that we probably all see around us on a nearly daily basis.

One thing I thought about that hasn't been mentioned yet... I remember back in Europe many ppl got into trouble when their mortage turned out to be based on a stockmarket investment plan and when the stocks went down, they couldn't afford their houses anymore. Many of them had no idea what kind of product they had bought and how it all worked.

Makes me wonder, how many Thais will get themselfs into problem by simply having no real idea of how much it really costs to borrow money, not reading the small text on the bottom of the page, or not understanding the meaning of it. Indeed combine this with a more living in the moment attitude then most foreigners and less laws to protect the average Joe from getting himself in too deep, and you've got a serious problem on your hand.

Edited December 10, 2009 by martijn12345

[elektrified]

I was at Im Plaa Pao for dinner the other night. Sitting on the level below us but right next to our table was a table of 10 Thais; six guys and 4 girls. All appeared to be in their mid to late 20's; an attractive group of people with stylish hairdo's, etc. All of them were sporting expensive designer clothes, had expensive mobiles, digital cameras, gold jewelry, the girls had expensive purses, etc., etc. Oh, and of course they were drinking expensive liquor.

I couldn't help but notice that when the bill came, that they all pulled out their wallets and paid Dutch. It looked like everyone including the girls paid 300 Baht each. What amazed me was that everyone had those long style of wallets that holds like 16 credit cards, 8 on each side when you open it up. From where I was sitting I could see that all the open wallets were absolutely full with credit cards! I could see one girl only had three 100 Baht bills in her wallet that she used to pay for her meal. They must all live on credit.

Considering how high interest rates are, I don't see how they will ever pay off the debt. But hey, they looked good!

Edited December 21, 2009 by elektrified

[caf]

I was at Im Plaa Pao for dinner the other night. Sitting on the level below us but right next to our table was a table of 10 Thais; six guys and 4 girls. All appeared to be in their mid to late 20's; an attractive group of people with stylish hairdo's, etc. All of them were sporting expensive designer clothes, had expensive mobiles, digital cameras, gold jewelry, the girls had expensive purses, etc., etc. Oh, and of course they were drinking expensive liquor.

I couldn't help but notice that when the bill came, that they all pulled out their wallets and paid Dutch. It looked like everyone including the girls paid 300 Baht each. What amazed me was that everyone had those long style of wallets that holds like 16 credit cards, 8 on each side when you open it up. From where I was sitting I could see that all the open wallets were absolutely full with credit cards! I could see one girl only had three 100 Baht bills in her wallet that she used to pay for her meal. They must all live on credit.

Considering how high interest rates are, I don't see how they will ever pay off the debt. But hey, they looked good!

Wow, all eight had digital cameras and gold jewellry and long style wallets all full with credit cards. Hope you had time to enjoy your meal.

[uptheos]

There are not too many people in the 'modern' world that wouldn't like at least as much as the next guy.

American's, Brits etc, seem to like impressing the neighbours......look at the <deleted> some of them are now in!