New requirements for long term stay

[Rolling Stone]

This whole subject has my head spinning.

Keep it real!

[DaveYo]

So here is a piece of advice.  Monitor the Government closely, and watch for signs of it faltering.  If you got that money in that bank and the Government is beginning to head dead straight to bankruptcy and the crash, get your money out pronto before they close the banks, and forget about the immigration and labor requirements.  Put it in your pocket and get it out of the country fast before they close that avenue too.  I sure as heck will not want Thailand to be holding my green of either 10K or 20K of usa money and Thailand is broke.

:blues:

[DaveYo]

tomy, the economy will dictate this collapse.  It has happened to the airlines.  One prime example United Airlines and they are the biggest.

USA is struggling right now as I type, and we have a debt of heading towards 1 trillion bucks thanks to Bush!

Just recently the baht got a little stronger, but that won't last for long.  American dollar is also getting weaker, because the Euro is the one beginning to dictate and take over.

Japan is another example and they have been in a depression state now for a few years and still counting.

Thailand is most vulnerable right now, they just got out of the IMF and it won't take much for anything to strike a disaster.

Look at South America and their currency in some countries is up the sky.  

So what Thailand is doing now is going to hurt them eventually.

It might not be just one thing or two.  It is going to be a combination of several things that kick starts it.  So if the economic engine begins to sputter for lack of gas it eventually will stop.

In fact USA is long overdue for a good depression, so sooner or later it will happen.  For example if one is arrested here, the Courts here are setting the average Bail of over 500,000 meaning one needs 50K to bail out.   What I am pointing about here is how high the money is around here in comparison to the world.

I live here and the americans are beginning to crack at the seams in trying to sustain the huge taxes that we have to be paying here.  Just for income from the paycheck they take 20 percent.

Read up the history of what happens to countries that go into protectionism.   The results are not good.

:blues:

[KevinN]

I am 70 years old and on a single entry "O" retired visa that expires next aug. I have been married for 2 yrs. my wife is a school teacher with 4 years til retirement. We own a home in phetchabun.

[ChiangMaiThai]

I certainly won't bite your head off Lizard. I thought your argument valid, cogent, and well thought out. You are, of course, only talking about those in a marriage situation from mid 2004. The " real bargain "  is still only 200,000 baht in a bank, and it is rumored that a ' grandfather ' rule will apply. Hardly enough to survive any major health or other adversity. I totally agree that the smug non-compliers are the root cause and have made it tougher for the good people. Years and years as a ' tourist '  I N C R E D I B LE  

Once again, all immigration has to do is look at the 50 stamps in a row and say, 'sorry sir, no entry for you. get a visa'.So yes, these people are operating in a grey area, but I can hardly see how you can lay serious blame on them as immigration is happy to allow them to re-enter year after year. I would venture to say that the vast majority of the non-complients ask immigration if it is okay that they come back every month and immigration says yes. I know this to be true for at least half a dozen of  my associates. They ask immigration, with nothing to hide, and are told that they may continue to come month after month. What more do you want them to do? It is not as if they are swimming back across the Mae Kong. Wouldn't your anger be best directed at immigration for not enforcing the rules as you see them?

Anyway, I know I am an idiot, a one time 'poverty-packer' and a waster of your time, so don't feel compelled to reply. Maybe just an interesting read for some other members.

[lopburi3]

I am 70 years old and on a single entry "O" retired visa that expires next aug. I have been married for 2 yrs. my wife is a school teacher with 4 years til retirement. We own a home in phetchabun.

In that case just sit tight and if they raise the requirements next year (or sometime later) and you can't qualify for the long stay just change to marriage extension at that time.  As you are already in the system it is unlikely you would have to meet higher requirements; even if they do change later.  Enjoy your retirement.

[lopburi3]

single entry "O" retired visa that expires next aug.

One more thing.  Be very sure you obtain a re-entry permit before you travel outside of Thailand or you will have to start the visa process again.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

CMT persisting in arguments with you serves no purpose at all. We cannot agree, thus, we must agree to disagree. You see little merit in what I say, and the opposite is also true.

[francois]

Read up the history of what happens to countries that go into protectionism.   The results are not good.

and will never be  

I'm too angry after reading the post this morning  

I'll take sometime to cool down before to write something about this ... things are clear now!

kep cool and have a nice day  

[Kringle]

Hi, New to this forum but not too new to Thailand, married to a Thai with child on the way. just got a multiple entry type O visa for this reason (marriage) and was told in La. that it was good for a year and all I have to do is report every 90 days. Is this true? Also have been told to start my processing for Thai national status. What's the story on this? Thanks for the info.  Kringle

[dr_Pat_Pong]

If it's an O as opposed to an O-A it'll be valid for one year but only enables 90 day stays on each entry. You need to establish a bank account in Thailand with 200,000 baht and apply for a one year extension of your present visa.

[monitorlizard]

Yes, the marriage visa is good for 1 year. I have been told that to obtain a resident card that you will need to have stayed in Thailand for 3 years.

After you apply for your 3rd year, you can request the application. They have a lottery which I believe is in December? I don't know what the cost of the application but if you are chosen from the lottery the fee is 96,000 (?) baht if your wife/spouse is a Thai national.

They pick 100 people from each nationality but they have to met some requirements.I will keep you posted as I am applying for it this year.

The reporting issue is debatable. Some people don't bother. But yes, you are technically supposed to report every 90 days. However, you can send a letter to the appropriate division at immigration. Some have reported the fine for not reporting is 2,000 baht. Some have said it is a per day and it is put in your passport. I never received such a document. I think people who never report never bother.

Regarding the money in the bank. Make sure you wire the money over to the bank in Thailand. It will not count if you withdraw the funds from the ATM. They need proof that the funds came from outside Thailand.

[KevinN]

When I got my first O visa I got it in Vientaine and after 90 days went to BKK immigration and got it cleared as an O retired single entry, as was told that was better than a married visa by the inspector,and she said to mail every 90 days my address,and come back in 9 months for a renewal,which I did.

so when I needed a renewal I went back and paid 500 baht Aug.4th. she asked the same questions and looked at my bank book and saw the 65000 baht and said OK,got the new one and she told me that the money did not need to stay in the bank,use it but replace it, but anyway Istill have to make  90 day reports as to my address.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You are doing it absolutely correctly Kev....no problems at all. You must ( and that is MUST ) report to Immigration EVERY 90 days. It is a simple and painless process and it can be done by mail...get the forms when you go on in.    

[monitorlizard]

Japan is another example and they have been in a depression state now for a few years and still counting.

I think you mean deflation. Yes, the Japanese economy has been in the dumps for 10 plus years now. One of the main reasons is that they will not reform the Japanese banks. The bad loans is still on the bank books and they are not collecting the debts.

The Japanese are always interfering with the dollar to keep it high so they can make their exports cheaper to the US. The Japanese are the biggest buyer of US bonds and debt. China is under pressure to devalue their currency 10-15% as the trade deficit with US is ballooning and causing fears of a loss of jobs there. Thailand would of course love to see the baht weak. Thailand is the 18th largest exporter to the US so it is in their best interest to do so. I don't think countries like Thailand will interfere again because the circumstances are different today. The Thai baht was pegged to the dollar at 25. Now the Thai baht is floating. The government here can prevent some of the speculators by banning or limiting US dollar accounts for non-residents. They have done this and the baht decreased to 39 from 38.5.

The was a similiar problem in the US with the S&L crisis but the US took action by closing banks and getting others to take over others. They established the Resolution Trust Corporation and they autioned off all the properties. The cost was billions and billions of dollars to the taxpayers.

I am not so sure we have to worry about depressions anymore. The ones in Germany and the US in 1930's were very severe but the world has changed considerably since then. The biggest problem was a lack of regulatory agencies.

Look at the dot com collapse. There was a trillion dollars wiped out in equity. There was no depression. The world is too diversified now. And look at the stock market now. The NASDX is up around 45% this year and if you picked certain stocks the gains were 400 -1000%. Keep in mind that when a stock decresed 90% in the dot com crash that it would take a900% gain to acheive back all of its earlier loses.

I do think that Thailand is in danger economically but I don't think it will collapse. I spoke with a British engineer who works for an expat company. They do a lot of work for Thai companies that are building high end condos. He told me that it is his opinion that the property gowth is not sustainable and is in danger of a correction very soon. I tend to agree especially after speaking to a taxi driver who is building apartments (40) Thai style on a small piece of land on the outskirts of Bangkok.

Also, the debt many Thais are taking on is somewhat alarming. I could be wrong because I may be old fashioned -in that I never carry a credit balance - but people all over the owrld seem to be up to their eyeballs in debt. General Electric is now in the credit card business in Thailand as well. If I were to pick a Thai stock I would find one in the debt collection business.

Anyway, I think it is impossible to predict collapses, the next great depression, etc. I think the big worry now is deflation and keeping a check on inflation in the years ahead.

I think that if you think about what is in store for the future or what could happen, then it will not only make your head spin but make you depressed, crazy or both. It is much better to enjoy life. Don't worry about what might happen. Better to deal with it when it does come your way. Just my thoughts and they are certainly not meant to demean others who have posted here. I do sympathize deeply with those who are worried about uprooting their families and homes.

I really do believe that the Thais are not going to break up families or start kicking out legitimate people living here. One thing that I have learned living in Thailand is that "words are louder than action" meaning that whatever comes out of a politician or what you read in the newspaper is quickly forgotten. So I don't get worked up or excited about what I read in the paper.

I still think the Thais are lovely people and this is why I chose to live here.

[KevinN]

PAT, It is very painless to do the reporting,a week before they are due to be in we just fill out one of the forms and register mail it,and the photo copys [you know how the thai love paperwork] they return mail a new form. and I never slip up on anything required by Immigration.

But I can't see where the thai think that getting rid of the farang will help the economy, I am just one,but before I came here this household put 14000 into the local economy,now we put 40000 in.and I take nothing out.plus furnish jobs for the thai here in the village,I can do everything I want done,but do not do it as the folks need the money.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

They are not EVER gonna push you out Kev...the non compliers are gonna join the lost civilizations. You are doing the right thing...mai mee pun har.

[ThaiJan]

Wondering where I fit in with those new rules   ?

I'm working as a teacher employed by the Thai Government (not a local contract). My monthly salary is THB 17.850,00 and I’m not married. Been here 5 years and so far 1 year visa extension and work permit has been done smoothly.  I do obviously not comply with any of those new rules mentioned. Wondering where I fit in. Is the nice Mr. Thaksin going to increase my salary (which hasn’t been regulated for 7 years) so that I can comply with his new rules (I wouldn’t mind, but don’t expect it though), or will I simply be kicked out? Anybody here knows?

[marquess]

Going back to the orginal theme of this posting. All foreigners living here in Thailand are merely tolertated officially and are essentially living on borrowed time.

Have been living here for three and a half years; married too, but in no view my position here as permanent. The government certainly won't let me think so. Remember, Thai loves Thai.

On the subject of the work permits, there was a letter in the Post this week, in which it was stated that a third of of foreigner workers had not renewed their work permits. Does anyone have any further information on this?

[Thai at Heart]

Dear All,

I am a little new to this chat room, however, I have a question.

I was working/on business in Thailand for 6 years previously on a "B" visa, and my company transferred me to Europe.  I have now been asked to return there.  I have a Thai wife and a house there in my wife's name (as per normal).  I will not have a salary in Thailand but will be travelling throughout asia regularly for business.  Does this discussion have any relevance for me in terms of obtaining a "b" visa, or will I have to move in and out on tourist visas?  

I see the problems that many of you face, and my opinion is that Thailand had a very anachronistic system of visas.  This change in the law means that many loopholes have been closed but that many honest foreigners living and working in Thailand have been caught up in the whole proposed change to the law.

I feel for everyone who is caught up in this mess, however, the odds that the law will be modified are probably very high if it eventually means a huge loss of foreign spending in Thailand.  Money talks at the end of the day.

Best wishes,

TAH

[george]

You can get a NON-O visa if you present your Thai marriage certificate to the Thai embassy/consulate. Try to get a multiple one-year, or at least a double entry. That will keep you going for 6 months (double entry) or 15 months (multiple entry).

With a simple letter of invitation *and* your marriage cert you should be able to get a "B" multi visa instead which is better for your purpose. Note that you are not allowed to work without a work permit in Thailand.

[ChiangMaiThai]

CMT persisting in arguments with you serves no purpose at all. We cannot agree, thus, we must agree to disagree. You see little merit in what I say, and the opposite is also true.

Every once and awhile I like to give you another chance to actually acknowledge and explain a point, rather than just making broad generalizations. But I see that this is something that you will never do. So I agree. There is no purpose in my arguments apart from perhaps bringing a little balance to the forum and perhaps arousing some debate.

As you must have seen in previous posts, there are others who share my point of view and who would like to see some elaboration on your part not to mention some answers when posed with easy questions such as, 'What is a poverty-packer to do who is told month after month that they may come to the border for another stamp? Should they follow that advice or follow your advice?' If they are to follow your advice, then certainly some clarification would be in order.

But alas, that clarification will never come. Rather than taking the opportunity to clarify and elaborate, you turn it in to an argument.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

However you cut it you and your ilk are using a loophole to avoid compliance with the income / banking rules for long term stayers. One of your characters actually said he  sometimes gets a visa when funds permit. Now that has to be close to the bone.  The forthcoming toughen up is to rid us of the walkers. You can't see that, and you actually support those staying year after year on that basis. One could be forgiven for thinking most simply cannot comply in a funds sense. You lot cannot even get a drivers licence. I know that what you are doing is wrong. I suspect you know it too, but won't do a thing about it. There is nothing to be gained by continuing to debate an issue in which we'll never agree.

[monitorlizard]

'What is a poverty-packer to do who is told month after month that they may come to the border for another stamp? Should they follow that advice or follow your advice?' If they are to follow your advice, then certainly some clarification would be in order.

But alas, that clarification will never come. Rather than taking the opportunity to clarify and elaborate, you turn it in to an argument.

However you cut it you and your ilk are using a loophole to avoid compliance with the income / banking rules for long term stayers. One of your characters actually said he  sometimes gets a visa when funds permit. Now that has to be close to the bone.

Being a backpacker many years ago, I can understand their desire to travel the world and gain some new experiences. It was certainly a learning experience for me. However, I did eventually come to the conclusion that I needed to face reality and pursue a career and begin working.

The backpackers have to face reality that one cannot living here indefinitely and live a month to month existance. You are living on the fringes and I personally think it would be in your best interest to return home to finish your degree or begin working.

I hope that I don't sound that I am preaching but I am speaking from experience. I realized this many years ago when I was in my early 20's and came across a man in his 50's living in India. He had no education and no viable means of support. He left his home country 30 years ago and has never returned. This scared the living shxt out of me!

Anyway, I have been reading that the Labor Minister who has proposed these new regulations IS going to be replaced in the PM cabinet reshuffle. I think that we will see modification of the proposed rules. August is a long way away.

I may be naive but after so many years of living here, I just don't see the Thai government deporting foreigners married to Thais regardless of their incomes. Can you imagine the scene of a tearful Thai wife with a crying son/daughter bidding farewell to their foreigner husband at the airport? This would not only make international headlines but it would make the powers to be who enacted such laws to be perceived as ones with "black hearts".

I have noticed that Thai politicans who are suffering in the polls or who feel they are not getting their fair coverage in the media will often make outrageous statements or policy declarations. They get their needed coverage and the newspapers get to sell more newspapers by spashing their newspapers with sensational headlines. The policy declarations are quietly forgotten and everyone is happy.

When I told my wife about the new minimum wages for foreigners she couldn't control her laughter. After 5 minutes, she looked up at me and asked. "You don't really believe this do you?".

Anyway, my 2 cents is to wait and see what happens. But I do agree with Dr. Pat Pong and others, " backpackers and fish are the same.....they both stink after 3 days".

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Monitor I am with you. They won't boot the marrieds out, but the non compliant fringe dwellers will be in a state of great agitation soon.  The gatekeepers presently let 'em in and out ( mostly ) but the heavies in Suan Plu and the Ministry of the Interior are intent on weeding them out. I am convinced that they are for the most part, on the edge financially. Not a very good way to eke out an existance, and no security of tenure must be tough too. The new foreigner minimum wage will mean that for the most part, they'll be unemployable. Khun Wife is right. One poverty packer boasts that in 10 years he's never had a visa. My adversary CMT still sees him as a tourist. It is unbelievable really.

[Khun ?]

Interesting thoughts.

It is kind of like a person that says they are not a materlistic

person. True maybe today, tomorrow or next year but what about in 10 years. It is like saying I do not need an education or a good trade nor do my children, near term maybe not.

The thing I see is alot of people making decisions without

the concern of others it will effect later on down the road

(later in Life). The attitude of as long as we are happy now

to h*ll with anyone else or the future.

Like getting a long term welfare person off handouts ( a million reasons of their own doing why they cannot better themselves).

Foreigners are expected to be like foreigners in some regards

and help instill the good things from our own countries. This means using educated responsible life styles.

The most common misnomer repeated here is we can live thai style to the lowest regard (day to day existance). This is not wise, not responsible and not welcome from a foreigner  to do so. Foreigners are to be positive examples.

At the least as a welcome foreigner teaching the depressed

locals that succcess by hard work a education and being responsible is a must and be the example not the excuse.

Anyway this is always an interesting subject.

[KevinN]

CMT, You are right about discussion,that is what a forum is about and thats what keeps them going,but argument just for the sake of argument is never very interesting or productive.

ML.Very good ideas, but I am bound to think so because what you say sounds like what I think,sounds so logical, But have you seen a Thai do anything that is logical? I have not seen to much and I am married to a Thai.

They seem to always come up with ideas to keep us in a state of mental confusion.

[sbk]

well, I haven't really joined in this thread because I am legal, have been for 11 years. However, that said, as a farang woman with a thai husband I have it much easier than a farang man with a thai wife. I have a couple of friends who do not have one year visas, go to the border every 2-3 months. they are "married" to thais (both have kids). why? well, for years (not lately but for a long time) it could take up to 9 months to process a one year visa in samui. One friend (a farang woman too) took 11 months for her visa to arrive, so the next month she had to turn around, go back to samui and apply again. As I say, the past two years have been better (3 months) but my friends felt like they were just yanking their chains at the immigration over there. plus, there is the land ownership issue, one friend's (de facto) wife's family owns a considerable amount of land, plus very valuable beach front land on which his wife owns bungalows. they are afraid to get legally married in case she jeopardizes her rights to this land. Plus, they go back to his home country every year for a  minimum of 3 months. So, I can have sympathy for both sides, neither of these men are poor, they both have plenty of money, just feel that if they do 'work the system' they will be penalized for it later. I am sure, if they felt they could do it legally and not risk future inheiritances they would in a minute.

[Khun ?]

SBK

Would you live in Thailand the same as a poor uneducated thai girl or the same as a welfare person from back home.

Many well educated capable male foreigners do and really not in a per say legal status. But then I guess the world is out to get them anyway.

[sbk]

actually Khun, there are a few farang girls who do the same. The guys I know do not live in a poor manner, give back to the community quite a bit, but feel that the legal status would jeopardize their wives futures. Don't know how true that is, or if its just an unwillingness to find out, island life can make you kind of slow to move! That said, I do know the kind of guy/girl you mean, one who has no money and doesn't want to go home and get a job. never understood people who want to live that way myself. Guess it takes all kinds.