Swastikas And Thai Ignorance

[Jingthing]

Marching around costumed like Nazis?? That's horrible!

Whats next? Riding around on bulldozers pretending to illegally demolish Palestinian homes with the A-rab families still inside??!!

Or perhaps the Thai students could pay tribute to the Jewish guards lording it over the A-rabs in the sweet little concentration camps they've set up in Gaza?

Do you actually believe they are equivalent situations?

[kikoman]

The US Has Alway backed Israel, At the rate of 3 billion dollars a year in military aid. It also is a fact that the Nazi movement is alive and well in the US. just look to the you tube films concerning anti Mexican rallies in the US. Check out the White power hate group in the US.

Again I state 'It is out of line to question what Thai Students and their teachers do'. Clean up your own back yard in the U.S. and Europe of your youth Nazi movements before you attempt to attack Thailand's Youth.

Your Ethnocentric values are not the values of Thailand's youth!

[Jingthing]

The US Has Alway backed Israel, At the rate of 3 billion dollars a year in military aid. It also is a fact that the Nazi movement is alive and well in the US. just look to the you tube films concerning anti Mexican rallies in the US. Check out the White power hate group in the US.

Again I state 'It is out of line to question what Thai Students and their teachers do'. Clean up your own back yard in the U.S. and Europe of your youth Nazi movements before you attempt to attack Thailand's Youth.

Your Ethnocentric values are not the values of Thailand's youth!

There is a lot of false information there.

Yes there is a lot of anti Latino immigrant sentiment in the US. However, the vast majority of the people who express that sentiment are NOT Nazis! Hitler loving Nazis exist in the US of course, but they are a very small minority of people. You have completely distorted the situation. I myself am rather left wing, but to suggest that most right wing Americans are Nazis is beyond the pale.

As far as the Thai Nazi parades, you show a complete lack of understanding about what has happened in Thailand. The famous Thai school Nazi parade had NOTHING to do with teachers teaching Nazi propoganda. It was a school event for fun organized by people who were TOTALLY IGNORANT of the true implications of the Nazi symbols.

Now IF there was a real movement among Thai youth to become REAL Hitlerian Nazis, of course, we have every right to speak up against them here, or anywhere in the world.

You are correct Thais don't have the same values as westerners. However, ignorance of some of the major events in history, such as World War 2, isn't exactly something to brag about.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Jingthing

[sokal]

The swaztika sign has something to do with buddhism,or so i thought.If the sign is harmless in Thailand then tourists will have to accept that they do not mean any harm.

Are you actualy saying they are celebrating natizm,cannot believe for sure

Indeed! The swastika is an ancient symbol for peace... but the reversed sign, in a white circle on a red background is unmistakable. And while they are not celebrating Nazism, its not an excuse for perpetuating a known evil.

I took a picture of this one on my last trip, it was in the factory district of BKK (where my ladyfriend lives )

So this guy is low life Nazi scum ?

[Neeranam]

It was Sid Vicious, who all Thais worship, that made it popular here due to his wearing it in the punk days.

[BigWheelMan]

I find offensive the indifference displayed by Thailand when depicting old nazi icon symbolisms of WW2, but I can understand it.

Nazism is the white man's legacy that was about the belief of tribal superiority that resulted in some white groups perpetrating atrocities against other white groups. Although Japanese Imperialism was facist, their ideology was more based on imposing their culture and dominance onto other Asian nations rather than racism.

So probably the average Thai out of ignorance does not have the understanding that memories of WW2 are still painful for many Europeans as Thais have never experienced or had been affected by the true horrors of war.

Edited December 31, 2009 by BigWheelMan

[BigWheelMan]

How many kids back in our own countries would know about The Khmer Rouge or the military killings of civilians here in Thailand by the (I forget their name. Possibly Red Hand or similar)in the 70s.

Let us face facts, Thais are not wordly and thefore think it looks pretty.

Good post and spot on.

But, as in law, ignorance should not always be used as a defence and our disapproval should be put forth to the organisers to educate them that this symbol is not appropriate for a teachers and students parade.

Edited December 31, 2009 by BigWheelMan

[loser1]

Thailand is for the Thais. Thankgod the 50 up TV club can't buy land there and have any say in how it's run. The swasti is a buddhist symbol pre-dating the nazis. End of story. Have your holiday and go home it's nowt to do with you.

[Jingthing]

The specific Hitlerian Nazi symbol is in no way Buddhist. The flag in the picture above is a specifically German Third Reich Nazi flag, and NOT a Buddhist symbol. This isn't complicated, why act like it is? Most likely, the Thai person hanging that flag was neither expressing religious devotion nor love of Adolph. Most likely the person just thought it looked cool.

How many Thai kids wearing Che t-shirts even know who Che was? Not saying Che was like Hitler. Actually Che t-shirts ARE cool.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Jingthing

[Harcourt]

..........

But, as in law, ignorance should not always be used as a defence and our disapproval should be put forth to the organisers to educate them that this symbol is not appropriate for a teachers and students parade.

How arrogant. YOUR values may include offense at some black ink painted in a particular patern....why should your values be imposed on Thais in their home country??

Perhaps you should look first at all the Britons that offend Thais when the Britons are in Thailand, doing what Britons feel is ok. It may be ok to publicly smooch in Trafalgar square, or walk around without a shirt in Brighton....do you ever give thought to other people's perspective....ESPECIALLY when they are at home and you are the visitor.

If you take offense at something Thais do in Thailand, instead of trying to re-educate them to your value, look at yourself first, or go home.

If anyone offended your values in your home, then you have a gripe.

[Harcourt]

..........

But, as in law, ignorance should not always be used as a defence and our disapproval should be put forth to the organisers to educate them that this symbol is not appropriate for a teachers and students parade.

How arrogant. YOUR values may include offense at some black ink painted in a particular patern....why should your values be imposed on Thais in their home country??

Perhaps you should look first at all the Britons that offend Thais when the Britons are in Thailand, doing what Britons feel is ok. It may be ok to publicly smooch in Trafalgar square, or walk around without a shirt in Brighton....do you ever give thought to other people's perspective....ESPECIALLY when they are at home and you are the visitor.

If you take offense at something Thais do in Thailand, instead of trying to re-educate them to your value, look at yourself first, or go home.

If anyone offended your values in your home, then you have a gripe.

[Jingthing]

Not everyone here is a visitor, mate.

[Pakboong]

How many kids back in our own countries would know about The Khmer Rouge or the military killings of civilians here in Thailand by the (I forget their name. Possibly Red Hand or similar)in the 70s.

Let us face facts, Thais are not wordly and thefore think it looks pretty.

Good post and spot on.

But, as in law, ignorance should not always be used as a defence and our disapproval should be put forth to the organisers to educate them that this symbol is not appropriate for a teachers and students parade.

Problems arise when we only envision one version of history that we want them to learn. Better to leave it alone as the Revisionist version has enough merit to change people for eternity. If they come to believe that they have been lied to, whether true or not, they become radicalized to an extent that is truly dangerous. Nobody benefits from that. Do you for example want them to know that it was the Russians who killed 14,000 Poles in Katyn forrest,, or do you want them to learn the 1945 version which was that the Nazis killed those Poles and that these Germans were falsely accused by the Russians at Nurnburg in 1946 for this specific crime. Do you want to hear the 1945 version that 4 million died at Auschwitz or the 1989 version that 1.5 million died at Auschwitz. Do you want them to wonder why the Auschwitz camp commandant Hess, at the Nurnburg War trials, confessed to murdering over 3 million Jews when it was later found out that he could not have because he didn't even have access to half that many. Do you want them to learn that veritually all historians now accept that there were no gas chambers in the camps liberated by the Americans in the west but only in those camps liberated by the Soviets in the east. This goes on and on. Best to just keep quiet and hope that your version of history, what ever it is, prevails.

[canuckamuck]

..........

But, as in law, ignorance should not always be used as a defence and our disapproval should be put forth to the organisers to educate them that this symbol is not appropriate for a teachers and students parade.

How arrogant. YOUR values may include offense at some black ink painted in a particular patern....why should your values be imposed on Thais in their home country??

Perhaps you should look first at all the Britons that offend Thais when the Britons are in Thailand, doing what Britons feel is ok. It may be ok to publicly smooch in Trafalgar square, or walk around without a shirt in Brighton....do you ever give thought to other people's perspective....ESPECIALLY when they are at home and you are the visitor.

If you take offense at something Thais do in Thailand, instead of trying to re-educate them to your value, look at yourself first, or go home.

If anyone offended your values in your home, then you have a gripe.

Kissing someone in public, men without shirts. Yes I can see the parallel. Those activities are very similar to celebrating the symbols of genocide. It's not like Thailand is a the first place people think of as a first rate destination for carnal behavior - or is it?

Anyhow, you have a razor sharp mind that is for sure. I especially like the, If you don't like it go home line. We sure have never heard that on this forum before.

I think if students were going to a sports day dressed in Nazi arm bands (with the schools agreement and cooperation) in any developed country it would be international news. This being Thailand however, it is similar to when a child says something inappropriate when guests are in the house. People just act like they didn't hear it. If Thailand is happy to always be the kid at the adults table, then we have no reason to complain or suggest better behavior. Neither do we have reason to respect them for it. Kids will be kids.

[anon789]

Enjoy the photos...

This was 2 years ago in Thailand - and according to some people on Thai Visa it had nothing to do with WW2 and nazism, it was all about buddhism and ancient buddhist symbols. 

[Jingthing]

This was 2 years ago in Thailand - and according to some people on Thai Visa it had nothing to do with WW2 and nazism, it was all about buddhism and ancient buddhist symbols. 

Of course. Those are CLEARLY WW 2 German Nazi symbols. The teachers there were simply IGNORANT to do that. It had NOTHING to do with Buddhism. Why do some people try to perpetuate such a silly idea?

Edited January 1, 2010 by Jingthing

[anon789]

This was 2 years ago in Thailand - and according to some people on Thai Visa it had nothing to do with WW2 and nazism, it was all about buddhism and ancient buddhist symbols. 

Of course. Those are CLEARLY WW 2 German Nazi symbols. The teachers there were simply IGNORANT to do that. It had NOTHING to do with Buddhism. Why do some people try to perpetuate such a silly idea?

Because not to perpetuate this idea would be to criticize Thailand or thai people - and if you do that then you might as well just go home! Thai people are not ignorant about anything, and westerners who disagree with this are ethnocentric. (a fancy word for racist)

Go home, you Thailand haters!

[toybits]

To atone for sins they have committed a long time ago. Hmmm...Just imagine the Brits having to atone for sins committed against the people of Burma, India and China. The white people for exterminating the native Americans, Pizarro and Spain for exterminating the Inca, the White people that put Nelson Mandella behind bars for around 30 years. Hitler for murdering 6 million jews.

Just so happens that more poeple seem to be drawn to pointing out perceived anti-semitic acts (paraphrased as "these people have a louder mouth and waste no time about reminding others about the injustice done to them during Hilter's rule).

Get over it dude.

As anon said - if you don't like this country, there is nobody preventing you from leaving.

Because not to perpetuate this idea would be to criticize Thailand or thai people - and if you do that then you might as well just go home! Thai people are not ignorant about anything, and westerners who disagree with this are ethnocentric. (a fancy word for racist)

Go home, you Thailand haters!

[Jingthing]

I think anon was being ironic, dude.

[Garry9999]

[Jingthing]

The reason westerners should tell Thais about what the specifically Third Reich Nazi logo really stands for is so that they won't embarrass themselves in front of the global media. Stories like the school Nazi rally went all over the world and reflected poorly on this country. Its all stupid because a real Nazi movement does not exist in Thailand. (Among Thais, anyway. I am sure you can scratch up some real old man German Nazis in Naklua, etc.) In Thailand it is just ignorance based on poor education. Its the same reason charitable people tell drunks to zip up their fly. Overall, this isn't a big deal as there is no Nazi movement here. Thailand has serious political problems, a Nazi movement isn't one of them. I don't see much reason to get upset at all over seeing the specific Nazi swastika here. They aren't really Nazis.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Jingthing

[BigWheelMan]

..........

But, as in law, ignorance should not always be used as a defence and our disapproval should be put forth to the organisers to educate them that this symbol is not appropriate for a teachers and students parade.

How arrogant. YOUR values may include offense at some black ink painted in a particular patern....why should your values be imposed on Thais in their home country??

Perhaps you should look first at all the Britons that offend Thais when the Britons are in Thailand, doing what Britons feel is ok. It may be ok to publicly smooch in Trafalgar square, or walk around without a shirt in Brighton....do you ever give thought to other people's perspective....ESPECIALLY when they are at home and you are the visitor.

If you take offense at something Thais do in Thailand, instead of trying to re-educate them to your value, look at yourself first, or go home.

If anyone offended your values in your home, then you have a gripe.

Your opinion regarding my values is totally irrelevant to me and if this has caused offence to anyone, I don’t give a toss. Now that’s real arrogance.

[BigWheelMan]

Just to make a few facts clear:

Those who try to justify the displaying of Nazi symbolisms in whatever shape or form they appear, no matter which country, have leanings towards right wing extremism.

There is no such thing as moderate Fascism, so you either support it or you don't, there is no in-between.

Edited January 1, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[Neeranam]

Whatever happened to the OP - too busy on the English News on UBC 94?

Edited January 1, 2010 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

There is no such thing as moderate Fascism, so you either support it or you don't, there is no in-between.

What about the Queen of England/British Goverment?

Edited January 1, 2010 by Neeranam

[Jingthing]

Just to make a few facts clear:

Those who try to justify the displaying of Nazi symbolisms in whatever shape or form they appear, no matter which country, have leanings towards right wing extremism.

There is no such thing as moderate Fascism, so you either support it or you don't, there is no in-between.

That's a little strong. The Thais who display these symbols for the most part are not really expressing a political statement. More like a fashion statement. In bad taste, but in their context, rather innocent. I agree that non-Thais who get all worked up about the Thai's right to display Nazi symbols are most likely sympathetic to some Nazi ideas.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Jingthing

[Tanaka]

Every large country kills someone and depending on whether you lose or not appears to justify the hatred of their symbols.

Why is it that the winners never get blamed for their hate symbolisms?

All I can say is.. get over it.

The swastika is probably one of the oldest symbols on this planet and found on every continent.

http://www.freewebs.com/manwomans/savetheswastika.htm [Friends of the Swastika]

Get over it? That is all you can say? Then I suggest you do not say anything! It will just show you as either stupid or ignorant. Or both.

[Jingthing]

We are not talking about swastikas that are not of the German Third Reich Nazi design (and colors). Non Nazi swastikas are a SEPARATE thing.

I mean, get real. If a real Nazi in the Third Reich got a load of this character, he would be on the first cattle train to the "work" camps ...

Edited January 1, 2010 by Jingthing

[473geo]

Surely one thing that is appreciated about Thailand is their attitude and ability to see yesterday as the past and move on........what you make of your life today is important......you can influence what happens today......you cannot influence what happened yesterday!!!!

So do you really think it is fair to try and inflict your historical patriotic views on another country half way around the globe??

I feel in this case the crime is in the eyes of the accuser........not committed by the accused.

[Jingthing]

Its just that the Hitlerian swastika logo is associated with a very horrible genocide which occurred in a supposedly civilized modern industrialized western country. Making it more shocking. The modern industrial methods they used for their mass murder were also ground breaking, in a bad way. If there was a globally recognized symbol associated with Pol Pot and school kids in Cleveland made a big parade featuring it under the direction of their stupid teachers, it would be equally worthy to educate them as well. I am sorry, the Thai teachers who authorized such a parade are IDIOTS.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Jingthing