3 Children , 20 Years In Thailand And 16 Years Together

[Brunus]

I am very sorry for your situation. But as another poster said hope for the best and be prepared for the worse. You want to know how long this relationship goes on. Sorry to say this, but some of your kids might not be yours. I really hope this is not the case.

Good luck

[Dakhar]

I'd also suggest you compile tons of evidence... e-mails, phone calls, even vid. tape etc. I don't think I would ever corner her with all of this, but it may come in handy down the road.

Just wondering, can you bring your kids back with u to your native home?

I don't know the legal parameters behind this....

but as others have suggested, working things out may be the better option.

I know my wife would have left me a long while back if it were not for the kids, and she knows the same thing is true with me.

I don't know when the "fantasy of love" dies in relationships, but I am pretty convinced that it dies in essentially all relationships.

Love is just "chemicals" of euphoria being released in the brain that is really what it all boils down to.

I keep up with a lot of my friends from back home, and all of them say the passion in their love life is GONE. So it seems to be the norm. Even my brother tells me the same about his marriage... and outsiders would think they are extremely happy together. But in the end, they are together, and would not have it any other way.... a side fling on occassion.... possibly but I don't think the benifit out weighs the risks.

The "soap opera" is over, reality is here, and it stinks. Some girls can't cope, some can.

[Nio]

It depends on how you handle the situation.

If you listen to other posters and waltz in one night when all her family has come to visit, with three hookers and lipstick down your neck and start giving out copies of her illicit letters, she's probably going to try and stop you seeing the children to punish you.

If you can work on an amicable split, with the interests of the children at heart, saving everyone's face, it'll be easier. Not to say that won't be phenomenally difficult. You probably have quite a lot invested in the country, but hopefully your entire fortune hasn't been channelled into the house and land and can be retrieved and protected.

16 years and no marriage meaning she has no face in her community or family.

You ever think about that?

You are working outside of Thailand and cannot give her what she needs?

I am curious how you can afford 5 star dinners and name brand presents, yet you claim that you cannot give her what she needs? This sounds a little far fetched.

If she cannot speak English who is doing all the translating for her and why not contront that person first?

One thing I can tell you?

16 years is a long time to throw away

And show me one perfect couple that made it 16 years never having any issues?

There are none

If you are too manly to forgive and forget (get the flamegun ready, because all these guys in here telling you to dump her are the same ones fuc_king around all the time on their wives and think it is ok for them, but not for the woman), better think about what the kids mean to you

They may mean more happiness than anything in the whole world and if that is the case, you better be thinking if they want to go with you or stay with her

Find a special place (restaurant, etc. ), gather the evidence and bring in out in the open. If the kids are old enough bring them along

Either you will find some family healing or not.

Running off is the cowards way and revenge is for idiots

You have 16 years invested, need to talk it over and make the best decision

Communication is the key here, obviously she has needs that are not being met and you need to identify what those are and try to solve it

Losing the kids to me would be the worst

[MyphuketLife]

I am sorry, I would not do anything quickly. I would however transfer all money to an account she can't access, I hope the car is in your name.

Being together for 16 years may (not sure on Thai law) make you guys a "civil union". Check with an attorney.

I would after doing all that, let her know the jig is up and you are done with her...

On another note, she is human, and people sometimes cheat, I am surprised to hear you have been together for 16 years and have three kids yet are not married, maybe she cheated (AND I AM NOT SAYING ITS OK) because after 16 years you have still not married her, maybe she is worried you will leave her and she will be too old to find her husband. At the end of the day for me it does not matter why she cheated just that she did, and I would personally leave her.

[Dakhar]

While in High School and in college I made "cheating" on girl friends a perfection

I mean really, it "ain't like we were married..." at least that is how I justified it. But according to my wife, in Thai culture, who ever you are screwing is who you are married to....

But I am not saying you should marry her at this point in time.... cheating is not really a strong indication of a solid relationship

[WarpSpeed]

she just want more than i been able to give.

and that makes me very sad

Sceeeeeeeeeeerew that!!!!!!!!!

[lannarebirth]

I'm sorry to hear of your situation and hope things work for the best. A couple things spring immediately to mind. 1) HE may be a member of this forum and maybe you shouldn't give any details that might allow him to identify you or himself. 2) You should probably make copies of those letters you found. 3) In what little time you have before you return to work maybe you could make arrangements for someone to document her infidelity in your absence. Again, sorry for your circumstances.

[WarpSpeed]

she just want more than i been able to give.

and that makes me very sad

Dude, that is more of a reflection of HER personality, not your short commings. Some people are a bottomless pitt and just want MORE MORE MORE, and never learn to just "stand still" and be thank ful with what they got.

Even if she was with Brad Pitt she would be looking for other means to satisfy her desire for more more more...

I imagine working over seas, you have provided for her more than most every person could have....

Absolutely a reflection on her!! And not overlooking the sacrifices to do that as well..

BTW your posting is reflecting that you are a bit more pissed then you think, just recognize your limits there are children counting on you.. Focus your energies on that...

Edited January 8, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[triplegee]

I'm sorry to hear of your situation and hope things work for the best. A couple things spring immediately to mind. 1) HE may be a member of this forum and maybe you shouldn't give any details that might allow him to identify you or himself. 2) You should probably make copies of those letters you found. 3) In what little time you have before you return to work maybe you could make arrangements for someone to document her infidelity in your absence. Again, sorry for your circumstances.

Good advice above.

Sorry for your situation OP - you definitely should be trying not to communicate with her today if you've had a few - it can only get ugly and you will probably regret it.

16 years is a helluva long time as other posters have said. Talk through the situation with her in a calm & reasonable fashion once you have got your thoughts & affairs together and you may be surprised by both what she tells you and the final outcome.

I wish you well.

GGG

[WarpSpeed]

Being together for 16 years may (not sure on Thai law) make you guys a "civil union". Check with an attorney.

Yes it does qualify in Thailand for Common law marriage, numerous relationships here are just that, no official documents...

But of course her infidelity shines a different light on the circumstances..

[WarpSpeed]

Someone asked previously but wasn't answered; How recent are the letters?

[brianinbangkok]

I'd also suggest you compile tons of evidence... e-mails, phone calls, even vid. tape etc. I don't think I would ever corner her with all of this, but it may come in handy down the road.

Very likely the OP will find the other guy is/was not the only "other guy" and if you do find this is the case OP it will make it a lot easier for you to walk away from her.

My guess is the one who is translating letters from English to Thai for your GF is also the one who you should watch if you want to get some more evidence.

Been in situation like this myself, heartbreaking and you need to figure out the next steps before you confront her with it and cover yourself as in bank accounts, credit cards and so on.

Also I agree get yourself checked for STD asap.

Good Luck,

Edited January 8, 2010 by brianinbangkok

[BigWheelMan]

Be cunning as she has been...and get your own future sorted out now without her not knowing you know...you have got the upper hand and then i would personally confront her for the facts!

good luck mate.

Exactly.

Go and see a Thai lawyer and first find out where you stand.

Then confront her with head on for an explanation.

This is the only way you are going to get peace of mind.

Edited January 8, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[Boo]

I think the op needs to sober up & think about things with a clear head. I also think that posters need to stop the name calling of the mother of the op's kids & bear in mind that we have only had one side if the story.

OP I hope you can find the best option & result to this sad situation for you & your kids.

Best of luck

[BSJ]

Your got the kids to think of. Doing something stupid may give you 5 minutes of satisfaction, and give them many years of grief. Quietly look at every option before making your move.

[GuestHouse]

I agree with Boo, the first thing to do is to stop drinking so as to keep your head clear.

Next ask yourself if you yourself have been faithful all these years? It might put a bit of perspective on things if you consider your own faults as well as hers.

If you need to break this relationship then take your time, do it when you are sober and take a long hard look at where you stand on child custody/access, property and marital wealth.

Oh and get a copy of those letters. Your wife's family will rally around her when this breaks - you need all the evidence you can get your hands on because nobody else is going to be helping you out.

Things I'd do right now is get access to your wife's emails, because there is bound to be more information in there - letters are a minute fraction of correspondence.

AND AGAIN - STOP DRINKING NOW

[rayong09]

When women get down for whatever reason you can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that some low life scum bag will be there for a shoulder to cry on. They are no different to pedos that stalk and prey their victims and then make their move when they feel the time is right.

There is no going back once you find out the other half has cheated, it will never work unless you want a life time of misery worrying what shes up to and bringing the subject up every time you argue.

Think of this like the biggest game of chess you have ever played, she has made the move and now its your turn. Kids come first then your finances, make the right moves fella so your not left penniless and with no access to the kids.

[MiG16]

I have removed link to a personal blog.

URLs are not permitted in signatures, and please also dont add them to the end of every post you make

this is against forum rules.

the only place where your personal site is allowed is on your profile.

cheers

, and Op, sorry to hear about this. I hope things work out well for you and the kids, and perhaps also her?

[Tenchu]

It isn't counted as kidnapping when one parent takes his children and leaves the other parent (in Thailand). It's not illegal. Just thought you might like to know.

[brianinbangkok]

It isn't counted as kidnapping when one parent takes his children and leaves the other parent (in Thailand). It's not illegal. Just thought you might like to know.

They are not legaly married so it would be kidnapping seems to me a very high risk thing to do, better sort things out and work out something with the GF.

Who knows the letters are not even hers ?

Edited January 8, 2010 by brianinbangkok

[old wanderer]

needforspeed:

Sad sad story....BUT, before I found the woman that was for me (Now almost 14 years), I had a similar situation to yours.

In this case it was 5 phone calls to England, and 3 to Germany when I was away one month. I called both the gentlemen and discussed the situation, both ended contact, and found pleasures elsewhere.

However I was not a happy camper, and had built a beautiful home on a mountain side overlooking a lake, so when I had all me ducks in a row, I just burned it down and went on down the road.

I would right a letter and ask some questions about the gentleman's intent:

Are you planning on supporting my children too, or just screwing my wife.

Would you please be sure to leave my car full of gas when you leave, and the frig full of beer.

etc..

With all that is available in Thailand, few men would find her so enticing to risk another farang coming home and looking for revenge.

As others have said, protect what ever assets you are able to. Sometimes things do work out

Choke Dee.

[Dakhar]

needforspeed:

Sad sad story....BUT, before I found the woman that was for me (Now almost 14 years), I had a similar situation to yours.

In this case it was 5 phone calls to England, and 3 to Germany when I was away one month. I called both the gentlemen and discussed the situation, both ended contact, and found pleasures elsewhere.

However I was not a happy camper, and had built a beautiful home on a mountain side overlooking a lake, so when I had all me ducks in a row, I just burned it down and went on down the road.

I would right a letter and ask some questions about the gentleman's intent:

Are you planning on supporting my children too, or just screwing my wife.

Would you please be sure to leave my car full of gas when you leave, and the frig full of beer.

etc..

With all that is available in Thailand, few men would find her so enticing to risk another farang coming home and looking for revenge.

As others have said, protect what ever assets you are able to. Sometimes things do work out

Choke Dee.

Burned it down.... the best!!!!!!!

[DegenFarang]

Also who writes letters??

I thought even old people stopped doing that five years ago.

[WarpSpeed]

It isn't counted as kidnapping when one parent takes his children and leaves the other parent (in Thailand). It's not illegal. Just thought you might like to know.

They are not legaly married so it would be kidnapping seems to me a very high risk thing to do, better sort things out and work out something with the GF.

Who knows the letters are not even hers ?

That also depends heavily on the rules of the country you are taking them to and there is still visa/passport issues to contend with just getting them a flight out let alone getting in, not so simple me thinks....

[Mario2008]

1 flaming post removed.

[Dakhar]

Also who writes letters??

I thought even old people stopped doing that five years ago.

That is a good point.... kind of strange. My parents use e-mail as if it is the Shizm. I try to tell them that is even "old school" now and they should be using MSN, Skype etc etc

[wolf5370]

OK didn't read all the replies (I admit), but waded through a few.

A few things...

Who translated the letters (was it done right - second opinion)? Trust me on this, I have had tyhings translated officially and still cvomes out with a completely different meaning. Get a few close friends (or maybe a few wives here will translate scans for you). You may be chasing a shadow that doesn't exist.

Its good you didn't confront her, this will not go the way it would (should?) in the west, she will lose face guity or not and just get angry withg you and nothing will be achieved or learned IMO.

First check you facts, don't let suspision and emotion dictate your actions.

As to you expensive pictures etc, that's an easy one. When she's out have them all put in storage. When she comes back tell her they've been sent for appraisal for insurance and it will take a few weeks.

If the kids are in their 20's, maybe you could ask them about what's happeneing. This could be dangerous too of course, only you know them well enough to judge it.

One thing no one is mentioning here - if this affair (if indeed there is one) has been going on for a while, then she has stayed with you. When you return she is there for you, yes. She hasn't sold all your stuff and emptied you accounts, ramprd up the credit cards or taken loans out agianst the house (all this I presume of course - as you do not mention such), so many of the stories and comparisons being made here do not fly IMO. Have you thought that she really does love you, but misses you and uses this other guy as a replacement you until the real thing comes home?

Letters are emotion on paper, they do not an affair make. Has this "affair" been physical?

Can you take a sabatical from work and spoend a bit longer in LoS with the family to re-cement things. You can be very clever this way, without confronting her, you can relay a story about a friend in Germany (or wherever) who has been married to a woman for 16 years has kids etc etc etc, putting the woman in a slightly bad light and ending the story with how much SHE lost. Sounds silly perhaps, but I can tell you I know it has worked before in your sort of situation (I ncan't go into it, but it is much closer to your story than many related here).

How would you feel about making an honest woman of her. Planning a wedding can do wonders for a womans morale too. It is surely the best way to say "I love you".

There is always a warning that maybe you should protect yourself too. This is sensible whatever the outcome.

Good luck my friend

[drum]

Move on. Good luck.

after 16 weeks or months sure move on,16 years 3 kids not so easy,

[tgw]

Interesting thread.

Believe me, I know EXACTLY how you feel, OP.

It is a complicated thing.

"she wants more than I can provide": exactly.

once the passion is extinct, women will become frustrated and become increasingly open for an affair.

men and women are different in their approach to affairs.

for men an occasional pickup is quickly forgotten and they won't be distracted from family.

but for women who initially thought to have just a one-night-stand and who then got the best sex in their life, it is an emotional affair. they get bound to their new screw, and the sex is better than with the husband/BF.

They get more attentions, more tenderness, their soul is whirling around - it is a new passion.

while men mostly have "screws" that don't mess up their soul or priorities, women have relationships which mess up their souls and brains totally.

What makes things worse for the husband/BF is that women will mentally constantly compare them, and come to the conclusion that the husband/BF cannot sexually satisfy them anymore, and they become sexually addicted to the new partner.

BF/husband has the great disadvantage to live long periods of time with their wife/GF - she has plenty of occasions to become annoyed with small details about her husband/BF who has remained the same over the years, and has to work/fake orgasms while her mind is with her new addiction.

The new partner has the great advantage of spending just little time with the wife/GF, not enough time for her to know everything about him, remaining mysterious in some ways, and therefore interesting, and she doesn't have enough time to get annoyed about his flaws.

Plus, the time between their meetings increases the desire.

...

BF/husband in that situation feels worthless.

Yes, he cannot provide anymore in the sexual area.

Women change.

After 3 kids, it is probable that a bigger organ was needed, in order to revive earlier feelings which could be found 16 years ago by using BF/husband's organ...

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE NULLIFIED BY APOLOGIES, LIKE "OH I HAVE BEEN FOOLISH, I AM VERY SORRY, I LOVE ONLY YOU"...

If she comes back to you, with all sorries, I love yous and whatnot, IT WILL CHANGE NOTHING TO THE FACT THAT SHE WILL STILL LIVE IN WHAT APPEARS TO HER AS EMOTIONAL AND SEXUAL MISERY.

AND IT WILL CHANGE NOTHING TO THE FACT THAT YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT STUPID FEELING THAT SHE IS NOT ENJOYING HERSELF WHEN YOU ARE TOGETHER / SLEEP TOGETHER. ETERNAL FRUSTRATION UNTIL OLD AGE.

...

ok, that was the bad part.

now the positives: she stays with you and the children.

you have a rich lifestyle and she enjoys that, the comfort and the safety.

she also respects you, she acknowledges your good heart, generosity, probably likes your humor, etc.

in her eyes, your are the good guy, you are the father of choice for her children and she wouldn't want another man in that role... but emotionally you were downgraded from "passion" to something coming close to "brother" or "best friend".

there is probably no danger that she runs off, and her romance with that italian guy probably won't last forever too.

c'mon, an italian guy in Thailand dating a 42-year-old?

he probably has loads of other GF on the side, and it is just a matter of time before your wife gets tired of him, discovers about his other GF or the guy himself dumps your wife or moves on to another country.

It is most improbable that this relationship with the italian will be durable.

How old are the "letters" you found?

I suppose those are emails, right?

For how long has the relationship been going?

Don't worry too much about the declarations of eternal love, etc. That's just part of the usual lies told between partners in such situations.

...

Anyway, shitty situation to be in.

Obviously, I can relate.

Advice what to do?

yes, I would also collect all possible evidence.

I would tell her nothing for now and try to continue to behave normally.

yes, I would also cover my bases, i.e. protect my financial assets. money = freedom & power. if things turn sour, you'll need both to have your way.

Put your assets out of her reach.

You wrote you are no millionaire, yet you have "very expensive" paintings in your house and bought DIOR for her for Christmas. You are probably a millionaire (be honest, count everything...), at least in dollars.

You probably know what to do to protect your assets.

I don't know how "expensive" your paintings are, but one good idea could be to have them copied and put the originals in a safe place.

...

As I pointed out earlier, my point of view is that the pieces of broken emotions cannot be glued back together.

You have the following possibilities:

- throw her out:

problem: the children.

it is not very clear in your post how much she loves the children, but I would suppose that as every mother does, she loves them very much and would run off with the children.

are you prepared for that?

- confront and coerce her:

well, basically forbid her to have affairs.

problem: no trust anymore on either side, tense relations, you will still feel worthless as a BF and sexually, she will still feel frustrated, sex life and emotional life will tend to zero, she will feel spied upon, she will spy on you to find out if you are unfaithful (which you will eventually be if you are in that situation).

Reason for staying together: children - probable separation when children will be grown up.

Not a good situation.

- do nothing and wait:

her relationship with the italian will eventually come to an end.

be good to her, she will feel guilty.

frustration on both sides remain, but your life is easier, and there is no don't about staying together as a family.

since the passion is dead, you will eventually also have girls on the side earlier or later. Maybe earlier.

And if she ever finds out, you'll have good arguments.

- "re-conquer" her:

this is sometimes seen in movies, but I honestly don't think it is possible.

after 10 years of marriage I have been in the same situation as yours, and I am still.

I think once passion is extinct, it will never come back.

- open relationship:

you don't even need to confront her with the evidence.

have an open discussion about you sex and relationship and see what happens.

you may have to push to overcome the first barrier of lies.

maybe she will confess to her affair.

up to you what you do at this point.

For an open relationship you could agree with her to play "happy family" for everyone including the children, while everyone makes what he pleases out of his private time.

This will be very difficult if you still love her alot and feel possessive.

I am currently trying the open relationship thing, but I still love my wife too much to let go of her.

It is not as easy as I first thought, and as good as it may sound "married, but my wife lets to to screw around as much as I like".

There is also a lot of frustration and self-disappointment involved since me too I cannot give her what she needs.

Feelings are still a mess, because regardless she has a relationship and cheats on me emotionally, she got completely mad when I went to a bar to play pool and came back at 2 am. She went ballistic and wanted divorce. The next day she couldn't understand herself her reaction...

Think well about what you want to do. I think for the moment option one, i.e. wait and do nothing is the safest, all options remain open and you got some time to find out new facts and explore your feelings and test your wife's feelings.

And yes, get your blood tested.

If you have regular health check-ups, slip the lab some money to test her blood for HIV/HepC/HepD

If you don't have check-ups, tell her it would be a good idea to make some (for the children too).

Edited January 9, 2010 by tgw

[OxfordWill]

This is very sad but I must say I do frequently (really, really often) meet girls out "partying" who are perhaps slightly older- around 30 say- who claim to have husbands or partners who work on offshore rigs and come and go, sometimes for months at a time. My personal experiences in this have caused me to never want to have such a situation- at least not with women in Thailand. I know one who has a secret condo in Bangkok and the husband thinks she is in the province! Its all insane.

I think for the OP though he should do more fact finding first. He should drink of course, but try to avoid "filling the gaps" of what you dont yet know about the situation- be calm and cool if not for yourself then for your kids. One day they will be old enough to not only perhaps hear about this but also judge how you handled it, and it might really affect them and their view of you if you handle it badly in their future eyes.

Edited January 9, 2010 by OxfordWill