No Blue Book For My Car

[hithere]

Hi there

More than 3 years ago I bought a brand new car from a well known dealer in BKK, I have still not got the blue book, I know that around 9 other people have done the same,(PLEASE GET IN TOUCH) they say it not their fault but they bought the cars from another man there is now in jail, I have tried everything to get them to take the car back but no luck, before I tell who it is, what do you think I should do, police seems to don’t care about it, also the finance company the guy used to get the car in the first place is trying to get the car from me.

I have been listening to a lot of lies from this well known company but now I had enough, they come up with excuses all the time, you guys tell me what I should do.

If this will not help I will tell everybody who it is.

Thanks

[CDNinKS]

Why is the finance company after the car? Are you still making payments? Did you pay cash for the car?

[MikeyIdea]

The police won't care because Thai law is the same as everywhere in the world. This is civil law and they have no jurisdiction, they would break the law if they did. Their responsibility for now stops at allowing you to make a formal complaint. I recommend you to bring a lawyer when you do.

If the car isn't fully paid then it is not your car, it's owned by the finance company. The problem here can't be that the company refuse to give you the blue book. If you are the owner, then you can request a new one so the problem must be that you are not the owner of the car.

If you can prove that you have fulfilled all obligations that is in your purchasing contract, then contact a lawyer, tell him that you need to take legal actions, ask him to confirm that you indeed are in the clear (show him evidence of every single payment), then get the lawyer to contact the office manager of the outlet (not you!) demanding a meeting. The reason I said ask the lawyer to confirm all payments vs contract is that the lawyer can bring copies of all and you don't have to go with him to the meeting (and it will be stronger if you don't). Instruct the lawyer that the agenda of the meeting is to demand to get company registration details so that he can start the legal process if the blue book with whoever is the legal owner (you, your wife?) in it isn't handed over within 90 days.

The reason I say 90 days is that less than that and they probably wouldn't be able to arrange it even if they wanted to and you don't actually want this to go to court. It would take a year and you would win if you can prove every single payment but you would (probably) only get about half of the lawyers costs back

Get a lawyer and Good Luck

[hithere]

Hi There

I paid cash for the car, its the well known car dealer it comes down to, they paid another guy for the car and that guy bought the car/cars on finance and did not pay, this well known car dealer will not pay me and take the car back, they told me i would get the blue book after 3-4 months, its now 3 years, they say its not them there have done something wrong, i think it is, i have all the papers saying i bought the car cash, also i have all the mails between the car dealer and me since day one.

If they was a good car dealer they should give me the money and take the car and deal with this, i have gone down to 700.000 Baht for a 3 year old car only done 45.000 km and look like new. i given them a lot of time to do something, but they just talk and talk.

i will try to get the name of the company out on as many website in Thailand as i can, some people will not believe who it is for sure but i can give them fact

I dont want to make trouble for this company i just wnat to get rid of a car i thought was mine, and have given them a very good deal and long time to solve this problem, i know that around 9 other people have the same problem, if we could get together maybe it would be cheaper to hire a good lawyer.

[LivinLOS]

If you paid them, have proof of paying them, and they maintained you would get the documents, then you have a legal case against them and its up to them to pursue the 3rd party.

Of course a Thai legal case could take years..

[MikeyIdea]

They talk and talk because it is cheaper for them to do so than to act. They will continue to talk until you leave Thailand, or die and get buried which ever comes first, because it is cheaper for them to do that than it is to act. They will never act unless you force them to act, easy.

It doesn't matter what they say is their responsibility or not at the end of the day. What matters is what is on the contract you have, if their company name is there as seller, then they can be sued to get money back, or ownership or the car transferred, whatever is easier for the company to do. It will take a year or so to get a court case going, probably much longer than that to finish it so start soon.

Get a lawyer and follow my advice in the previous post

[hithere]

If you paid them, have proof of paying them, and they maintained you would get the documents, then you have a legal case against them and its up to them to pursue the 3rd party.

Of course a Thai legal case could take years..

They already have a legal case against the man and he is in jail, he did this to a lot of cars he even had some people in the finance company helping him, they are out of the company and a legal case is underway against them, but it dont help me at all, i still say they should pay me back and deal with this, i have done nothing wrong.

[MikeyIdea]

Well, the problem is not if they act or not, of course they do. The man whoever he is (or they are if there were more than one) is never going to have the money to pay them back. The company is of course just sitting there hoping that the people who got screwed (just like they did maybe) will accept to wait until they get money = never because then they don't have to pay.

They are trying to and have successfully managed to get you to accept that their problem is your problem for 3 years. Their problem is their problem and has nothing to do with you. You will never get the ownership transferred to you or any money unless you act, because it doesn't benefit them.

Apologies for hard words but that's how the brain of the owner of the company works

[CDNinKS]

Unfortunately the physical possession of the blue/green book counts very heavily in LOS. That is why it is so important to safe guard it it at all times.

My understanding is that, regardless of who's name is on the book, someone can take that book to a finance company or loan shark and use it as collateral on a loan.

Some unscrupulous dealers always try some fancy footwork when it comes to the Blue books, especially in cases where the car was paid for in cash.

The first car I bought here was paid in cash and I had to threaten legal action after 6 months to get my white plate and blue book. Luckily for me they came thru. The next 2 cars were financed thru reputable banks, so the onus is on them to obtain the book and they will retain it until you pay off the loan. You will receive a copy only.

The advise you have been given about seeking legal advise is good advise, but I wonder if trying to have a duplicate blue book issued in this case would fly. Same as if you report your blue book stolen, it is possible (although not easy) to have a replacement issued.

[stingray]

The dealer maybe not resposable, it's depend on the contract you signed at that time. It could be a "commision based contract" that's mean maybe they mention in the contract that the car not belong to them and they are not responsabile. Mosthly those contracts are written in Thai. You should check your lawyer first and translate the contract. please understand, i'm not against you and i'm not protecting the dealer, but this s what happen sometimes.

[terdsak_12]

The company in question is my company "Expat Motors". Yes we did business with a supplier 3 years ago or so supplying us new cars. In total we had around 80 vehicles from him. After a period of time registation docs from this supplier started to get slower and slower in coming to us. In the end we stopped buying from him and have been stuck with 10 cars with outstanding registration documents due. We found out after some investigations that the supplier was financing the cars after we'd paid cash for them. Anyway he's locked up and we have several unhappy people wanting paperwork, refunds etc from us. We don't have the funds to close the outstanding finance neither can we afford to buy the cars back so in a difficult spot.

We are working on selling these cars on, but price is an issue, and have ongoing legal proceedings with the original supplier. We stopped dealing with this individual as soon as we leant something was amiss but continue to deal in cars from more reliable sources.

I'm not going to get into an online arguement with anyone on the board regarding this, but wanted to explain the situation from our side.

We've been in business for over 10 years and I'm sure there are more than a few Thai Visa readers who are happy with the services we've provided.

Andy Wing

Expat Motors

[Benjie]

Kudos for fronting up. As a reputable company it sounds like your only option is to pay off the finance yourselves over time, your clients trusted you and it was up to you as the profesisonal in teh industry to do the due dilligence.

[hithere]

Hi There

I guess this came as a chock for a lot of people that’s the sponsor of this forum, it was also a chock for me, also that they will not go in and pay me for the car, remember I have tried to get them to take back the care for more than 2 years, I wanted to sell the car after less than a year, I am stuck with a car I can’t drive because the finance company hassle me and park in front and back of the car when they see it,, 2 times my girlfriend have been threatened of 4 big bad guys, she was so scared she cried for a long time and will never drive the car again, well it has not been out driving for months now, I have to hide my own car,,,,, it’s not even my car even I paid cash for it. I really don’t know what to do but will keep going on about it, somebody must be able to help.

[hithere]

Kudos for fronting up. As a reputable company it sounds like your only option is to pay off the finance yourselves over time, your clients trusted you and it was up to you as the profesisonal in teh industry to do the due dilligence.

I have tried to tell them this for a long time, they dont care, just a new story every time.

[lingnoi34]

That is the entrepreneurial risk that every company doing business takes. It should never be passed onto the customer. That is just plain wrong!

LN

[longball53098]

I need to understand something here please? No one has mentioned the annual road taxes and decal? How has the owner been paying for the tax and CPL insurance the last 3 years? You need the book to do this? I know he says they have not been using the car for some time now but what about in the first couple of years?

[MikeyIdea]

Andy Wing at Expat Motors, I think it is strong of you to show up here. It does mean that you are serious about providing proper service in the future. As such, I could maybe consider to use your company in the future - If you have a company. You have unlawfully made your problem your customers problem, that is about to bite back. I would of course protect myself as if you were a criminal if I ever were to do business with you. Had you not according to the OP come with excuses about the situation for 3 years instead of telling the truth, then I would not have written it that way

I still recommend the OP to take legal action immediately. Get first in line to the company assets and you will get money back. Depreciation for the time you could use the car before the first issue became clear is fair, you should absorb that. Depreciation should then be counted for 3 months, the time the seller has to provide the blue book. On top of that comes something very difficult, compensation for 3 years of problems. There is a new consumer protection law that came into effect only last year, I don't know the details but don't automatically assume that you will get no help by the courts, that is not correct.

Andy, thank you for clarifying in your own post that your company carries the legal responsibility in respect to the BUYER of the cars your company sold

This thread is soon going to be closed by moderators to protect a forum sponsor. That's because of the the same reason why I recommend the OP to not wait, in a commercial world, people do everything to protect their own interest. There is no advantage in waiting. OP: Don't threaten, just take the value of the car including 3 months decreciation from purchase date + some compensation and instruct your lawyer to give Expat Motors 90 days and then proceed with legal action immediately if not money or ownership is cleared.

Good Luck

[CDNinKS]

I need to understand something here please? No one has mentioned the annual road taxes and decal? How has the owner been paying for the tax and CPL insurance the last 3 years? You need the book to do this? I know he says they have not been using the car for some time now but what about in the first couple of years?

You don't need the book, a copy will do. As I said before, if you finance the car you will not be in possession of the book, only a photo copy.

[hithere]

I need to understand something here please? No one has mentioned the annual road taxes and decal? How has the owner been paying for the tax and CPL insurance the last 3 years? You need the book to do this? I know he says they have not been using the car for some time now but what about in the first couple of years?

Hi there

You ask them how they get the tax sticker. i pay in their bank and they send me the sticker.

[Spoonman]

We are working on selling these cars on, but price is an issue, and have ongoing legal proceedings with the original supplier.

Why not swap the poeple concerned legit vehicles from your current stock then you can fix the issue in your own time.

[hithere]

I need to understand something here please? No one has mentioned the annual road taxes and decal? How has the owner been paying for the tax and CPL insurance the last 3 years? You need the book to do this? I know he says they have not been using the car for some time now but what about in the first couple of years?

You don't need the book, a copy will do. As I said before, if you finance the car you will not be in possession of the book, only a photo copy.

Hi There

I dont even have a copy, remember this was a brand new car and you have to wait around 3 months to get a book, i just never got it

[CDNinKS]

Hi There

I dont even have a copy, remember this was a brand new car and you have to wait around 3 months to get a book, i just never got it

So the car has had red plates for 3 years?

[MikeyIdea]

We are working on selling these cars on, but price is an issue, and have ongoing legal proceedings with the original supplier.

Why not swap the poeple concerned legit vehicles from your current stock then you can fix the issue in your own time.

Judging by the actions of Andy Wing and Expat Motors for the last 3 years, it seems that the company management rather have the customers take the impact.

[hithere]

Andy Wing at Expat Motors, I think it is strong of you to show up here. It does mean that you are serious about providing proper service in the future. As such, I could maybe consider to use your company in the future - If you have a company. You have unlawfully made your problem your customers problem, that is about to bite back. I would of course protect myself as if you were a criminal if I ever were to do business with you. Had you not according to the OP come with excuses about the situation for 3 years instead of telling the truth, then I would not have written it that way

I still recommend the OP to take legal action immediately. Get first in line to the company assets and you will get money back. Depreciation for the time you could use the car before the first issue became clear is fair, you should absorb that. Depreciation should then be counted for 3 months, the time the seller has to provide the blue book. On top of that comes something very difficult, compensation for 3 years of problems. There is a new consumer protection law that came into effect only last year, I don't know the details but don't automatically assume that you will get no help by the courts, that is not correct.

Andy, thank you for clarifying in your own post that your company carries the legal responsibility in respect to the BUYER of the cars your company sold

This thread is soon going to be closed by moderators to protect a forum sponsor. That's because of the the same reason why I recommend the OP to not wait, in a commercial world, people do everything to protect their own interest. There is no advantage in waiting. OP: Don't threaten, just take the value of the car including 3 months decreciation from purchase date + some compensation and instruct your lawyer to give Expat Motors 90 days and then proceed with legal action immediately if not money or ownership is cleared.

Good Luck

Hi There

Thanks a lot, i will do and have done a lot to get the book and i will keep trying, i cant see why this tread should be closed, maybe it could help other members of TV???

if this already have helped 1, good. I have not used their name here, they came forward so i cant see why they should close it, lets see what other TV people think. and thanks for the support, need it right now, well i needed it 3 years ago but i have given them so much time to sort this out, you should try to be in the car when a car in front and 1 in back park so you cant drive and 4 big Thai guys start too do what they can to hand over the keys, not fun, the police came but would not do anything, not a problem for the police they told me.

I dont even ask for compensation i even give them a good offer so i can rid of a car i cant drive, i am the big loser here, but they think they are the loser.

They even told me that maybe i could not get much money back.

Just bad.

[hithere]

Hi There

I dont even have a copy, remember this was a brand new car and you have to wait around 3 months to get a book, i just never got it

So the car has had red plates for 3 years?

Hi

No i got white number plates after a while, cant remember how long time it took. They sent me the white plate and i retuned ti red plate. In the start they just told me it tokk some extra time to get the plate because of some problems, in the end they told me about the scam that this guy had done when he sold the cars to them.

[MikeyIdea]

CDNinKS, I would rather address this to Expat Motors as they have come forward. The buyer cannot explain how the white plates were produced but they can.

Expat Motors:

It seems that you have no blue book, at least you have not provided the lawful buyer with even copies for 3 years, how were the white plates produced?

[CDNinKS]

So why did you not get the blue book when you got the white plates? As you said, the book comes with the white plates.

Sorry Mikeyidea, posting at the same time.....

[MikeyIdea]

So why did you not get the blue book when you got the white plates? As you said, the book comes with the white plates.

May I recommend addressing Andy Wing of Expat Motors and not the OP. The OP has been ripped-off by Expat Motors, how can he know?

Edit: Sorry too CDNinKS

Expat Motors, please enlighten us

[CDNinKS]

May I recommend addressing Andy Wing of Expat Motors and not the OP. The OP has been ripped-off by Expat Motors, how can he know?

You are right, but if the OP did not insist on getting the book the same time he got the white plates, that would make him partly responsible for this......due diligence.

[hithere]

May I recommend addressing Andy Wing of Expat Motors and not the OP. The OP has been ripped-off by Expat Motors, how can he know?

You are right, but if the OP did not insist on getting the book the same time he got the white plates, that would make him partly responsible for this......due diligence.

Hi

I did ask for the book, i did that from day 1 also asked why it should take so long time to get it, i cant see i am responsible in any of this, paid cash for the car and after 3 years still waiting for the book