Mild Sleeping Tablets In Thailand?

[HalfSquat]

Hello,

I've always had trouble getting off to sleep at night.

By about 4pm I could easily fall asleep but even if I don't by 10pm I just cannot get to sleep. My body is tried but my mind is not. I've had this for as long as I can remember. I wasn't a big caffine drinking but since moving to Thailand I have been having a cup of coffee most days.

In Thailand I now have to get up at about 6am during the week and not being able to get to sleep until midnight or later is wearing my down.

I've not taken proper sleeping pills before - only Nytol a few times from Boots in England which is OTC stuff.

Is it safe to take sleeping pills five nights week? Ideally I would like to go to sleep at 10pm so I can get 8 hours and not be too tired the next day.

Will I get addicted? Can you buy sleeping tabs over the counter in Thailand and if so which ones are good for a beginner to start with? Or is there something else I should try?

Thanks.

[JimmyTheMook]

I'm a poor sleeper myself and the only thing that works consistently for me is exercising - even using melatonin seems to have little effect

A mild antihistamine called Atarax is used for helping induce sleeping

Edited January 28, 2010 by JimmyTheMook

[phetaroi]

I'm a poor sleeper myself and the only thing that works consistently for me is exercising - even using melatonin seems to have little effect

A mild antihistamine called Atarax is used for helping induce sleeping

In the old days I used to take an occasional melatonin. Do they have that here?

Exercising keeps me awake if I do it anytime within 4 hours of bedtime.

It's nice being retired...now if I can't sleep...who cares.

[tonititan]

HalfSquat, I felt like I was reading my own story when I read your post! My situation is pretty much exactly the same, and I'm getting really sick of it. I hope you get some good answers!

[Old Man River]

HalfSquat, I felt like I was reading my own story when I read your post! My situation is pretty much exactly the same, and I'm getting really sick of it. I hope you get some good answers!

I guess this comes on with age (I am talking about myself). OK, a lot of people here will tell you all the natural things you could take and all the things you should do to get a naturally good night's sleep. This doesn't work for me. Maybe it will for you.

For me, Stillnox (Ambien) always works, but you have to get it at a hospital as it is a controlled substance in Thailand. Currently, some of the hospitals are having trouble keeping it in stock as the demand is so high and the government is trying to keep its use under control.

When Bamrungrad runs out of it (like now), they instead seek to give out a horrible drug that is illegal in the US and known as the date rape drug. Several months ago, I tried 1/2 of the pill they gave me and I threw the rest down the toilet. It is a horrible drug.

Another doctor has advised that instead of Stillnox, some patients take the lowest dosage possible of Desyrel or Amitriptyline (either or, but not both), which are anti depressants. Both of these drugs are older with side effects well known. One of the main side effects is that they make you sleepy. This doctor gave me the lowest dosage available and then said to take 1/4 to 1/2 of that pill and this should do the trick. Most doctors still prefer Stillnox as a sleeping pill since it is completely out of your system within 6 hours, while both of these drugs hang on for a few hours longer. I have the pills, but have plenty of Stillnox left, so I won't take them unless I need to.

Good luck.

[samuibeachcomber]

am yet to find a sleeping pill that works.As we get older am told we need less sleep.I f i stay up till about 1-2am i usually get good sleep,but often find 4 hours is enough.The best antidote to a restless night is to have some good sex.

[HalfSquat]

I wish four hours was enough. I feel dead in the morning and the afternoon.

Exercise keeps me awake so I try and do it as early as possible.

I tried melatonin and ZMA in the past but didn't really notice any definite difference.

[Sheryl]

Atarax is the only thing sold over the counter here that I know of. or sleep dose of 50-100 mg; it's sold in 10 and 25 mg tabs as lower dosage is used for relief of itching and mild anxiety.

It works well enough but not advisable to take every single night on a long term basis. (Although safer in that respect than the prescription only preparations; it is not addictive).

Also, it tends to be pretty long acting and there may be some grogginess in the morning. Definitely do not advise taking it less than say 9-10 hours before you have to get up or you may find it very hard to get up on time.

I take it every once in a while when I have had insufficient sleep for several nights in a row and want to get caught up on my rest.

Melatonin should help some with getting your body clock back in sync, but it is hard to find here.

[jdinasia]

Atarax (Hyroxizine hcl I think) sold in 10 or 25 is great for me. It only takes one 10mg tab if I am tired or one 25 mg tab if I am less tired and then I am asleep within an hour normally.

It is EXTREMELY useful to have around in case of bug bites or allergic reactions (histamine reactions including hives).

[syd barrett]

Another doctor has advised that instead of Stillnox, some patients take the lowest dosage possible of Desyrel or Amitriptyline (either or, but not both), which are anti depressants. Both of these drugs are older with side effects well known. One of the main side effects is that they make you sleepy.

Amitriptyline does work well for some people.

As an added bonus single 10mg tablets cost just 1 Thai baht and can be halved before use 60 minutes before bedtime.

[tonititan]

Another doctor has advised that instead of Stillnox, some patients take the lowest dosage possible of Desyrel or Amitriptyline (either or, but not both), which are anti depressants. Both of these drugs are older with side effects well known. One of the main side effects is that they make you sleepy.

Amitriptyline does work well for some people.

As an added bonus single 10mg tablets cost just 1 Thai baht and can be halved before use 60 minutes before bedtime.

Where did you get amitriptyline pills for 1 baht/piece?!? I used to take it, but I had to get it from the hospital and it cost WAY more than that! I found it to be very pricey medicine for Thailand standards. I would love to find a cheaper/easier place for future reference, if you have any suggestions...

[mrtoad]

Lot's of different opinions on this.

Before considering MEDICATION then really people should maybe address their sleep hygine first. There is plenty of information on this on-line, so there is no need for me to print it out here.

As for Hypnotics such as Z drugs and other Benzo's, these really should only be used for short term interventions (BETWEEN 2 AND 4 WEEKS) and not for long term use. If I was going to suggest using any particular sleeping medication in this group of meds I would go with Zopiclone 7.5mg O.N. (general drug of choice for RX within Mental Health services in the UK). Again though, I would reiterate that it should only be considered for short term use, as basically it's efficacy goes after a month of use, much the same as a lot of other meds that are used for inducing sleep.

The other option as suggested is using an Antihistamine such as atarax - which can be used for sleeping. Doseage range can be up to 100 gm Q.D.S for Anxiety or for sleep I'd go with between 10mg- 50mg O.N. - although you could go to 100mg.

As for the suggestion of using Anti-depressants as a sleeping aid, I would strongly advise that this is not a good way to go. Agree that Amitryptaline does have a sedative affect - but so does Chlorpromazine (Anti-Psychotic- would you take that?), but it's general prescription guidelines according to the BNF it is for depressive illness. It should be used with caution due to health issues, side effects, interactions, withdrawal and contra-indications. I really should not need to elaborate.

In all, people should be very cautious as to what they take without first seeking the advice of a qualified healthcare professional and in respect of this type of problem, it can often be rectified fairly simply and quickly by making a few changes to routine, lifestylke and diet.

Edited January 29, 2010 by mrtoad

[MegaRanter]

sometimes, you just need to move the television out the bedroom instead of drugging yourself.

How is your bedroom decorated? what do you have in there that should be elsewhere?

[tonititan]

In all, people should be very cautious as to what they take without first seeking the advice of a qualified healthcare professional and in respect of this type of problem, it can often be rectified fairly simply and quickly by making a few changes to routine, lifestylke and diet. smile.gif

sometimes, you just need to move the television out the bedroom instead of drugging yourself.

I agree about not taking medicine without seeing a doctor. When I took amitriptyline before, it was not for sleeping, and I was under the care of a general doctor and neurologist. I also agree that sometimes, lifestyle can be the cause of sleeping problems. However, there are many of us who cannot improve our sleep, no matter what we do in our lifestyle. I think it's easy for people who sleep well to say that you just need to make a few lifestyle changes and that will solve the problem.

I for one, have been a poor sleeper since I was a baby (according to my mom). I am in good health, exercise regularly, eat a healthy diet, avoid all caffeine except the occasional piece of chocolate , do not have a tv or computer in my bedroom, do not smoke/use drugs/drink excessively, live in a quiet neighborhood, try to maintain a regular schedule of getting up at approximately the same time everyday, am not depressed and do not have other psychiatric problems, and have tried relaxation techniques at bedtime. Nothing seems to work, and I lay in bed for hours every night trying to fall asleep. I have inquired with my doctors, and they have never found any reason why I should be having so much trouble falling asleep. I rarely use medicine to help me fall asleep because I don't like putting any unnecessary drugs into my body. But, sometimes you just need to sleep!

[mrtoad]

In all, people should be very cautious as to what they take without first seeking the advice of a qualified healthcare professional and in respect of this type of problem, it can often be rectified fairly simply and quickly by making a few changes to routine, lifestylke and diet. smile.gif

sometimes, you just need to move the television out the bedroom instead of drugging yourself.

I agree about not taking medicine without seeing a doctor. When I took amitriptyline before, it was not for sleeping, and I was under the care of a general doctor and neurologist. I also agree that sometimes, lifestyle can be the cause of sleeping problems. However, there are many of us who cannot improve our sleep, no matter what we do in our lifestyle. I think it's easy for people who sleep well to say that you just need to make a few lifestyle changes and that will solve the problem.

Okay, I'll bite a little as I am coming for the other side of the fence in respect of giving suggestions. I agree with a lot of the points that you have made, and in general each and every person is different - and not one size fits all in respect of changes or medication. I'm not actually saying that it is easy to just fall asleep - I have had sleep problems myself in the past, and I would probably not be undersetimating the fact that 80% of the clients that I have worked with have at some point had, or still have sleep problems. There is some good advice here from many people.

I think from what you have written you have explored the options with your Doctor and other healthcare professionals, and still continue to have sleep problems. As you said, at times you just need to sleep, and popping the odd pill to aid that is not problematic or without rational. My concern is that there are a significant amount of people who are giving out advice about sleep medications - without really understanding all about the medications or other options available. As I've said, lifestyle, diet and routine can improve most peoples sleep patterns. In the end if people are considering taking medication without a consult, then they should make sure that they are aware of what they may be taking. People are often to quick to look at the easiest option, rather than maybe deal with the actual cause.

[tonititan]

And I agree with that completely, that some people may be too quick to try drugs without trying other options first. I wasn't necessarily directing me comment "I think it's easy for people who sleep well to say that you just need to make a few lifestyle changes and that will solve the problem" at you. I was just pointing out to everyone that people who have not had the problem can't truly understand. It's the same on the health forum, when people who have always been skinny telling overweight people that it's easy to lose weight - just stop eating junk food and exercise more. People who are very overweight know that there are many other factors involved. Or non-smokers telling smokers that it's easy to quit if you just stop buying cigarettes. I've never been a smoker, but my friends tell me that that quitting is very difficult. Or really smart people telling those who struggle in school that their only problem is that they don't work hard enough. I'm sure the list could go on and on.

[quiksilva]

Boots sell a St John's Wort based sedative, although not advised if you have liver problems, I dont normally use it but it did help me over come jet lag.

[toptuan]

Lay off coffee and drink one quart of water a day. Worked for my sis, who endured over 50 years of chronic insomnia.

[syd barrett]

Another doctor has advised that instead of Stillnox, some patients take the lowest dosage possible of Desyrel or Amitriptyline (either or, but not both), which are anti depressants. Both of these drugs are older with side effects well known. One of the main side effects is that they make you sleepy.

Amitriptyline does work well for some people.

As an added bonus single 10mg tablets cost just 1 Thai baht and can be halved before use 60 minutes before bedtime.

Where did you get amitriptyline pills for 1 baht/piece?!? I used to take it, but I had to get it from the hospital and it cost WAY more than that! I found it to be very pricey medicine for Thailand standards. I would love to find a cheaper/easier place for future reference, if you have any suggestions...

Any Pattaya side street pharmacy (generic).

Just try a few different pharmacies. This is not a problem.

[Old Man River]

My concern is that there are a significant amount of people who are giving out advice about sleep medications - without really understanding all about the medications or other options available.

Yes, of course, by all means have that concern. For me, I would rather go with the advice from a well known doctor in Thailand (Harvard Med etc. etc. etc.) who understands that some of us just need to go with medications. Consider yourself lucky in that you don't. I hope you never have to take medications for anything. For me, I do.

[syd barrett]

There is another angle: Personally I don't care if I sleep or not because I know that eventually I will be so tired that I will sleep.

Dare I suggest that those who worry about 'getting a good nights sleep' might already be a anxiety-stricken, depressed, neurotic or have an OCD?

In that case 'Benzo's' might treat the actual fear of not 'getting a good nights sleep'.

I am sure that most medical Doctors would agree with me: That those persons who present at surgery with insomnia have underlying mental problems that almost certainly require treatment.

I don't mean to be glib here but it is very relevant.

[Old Man River]

There is another angle: Personally I don't care if I sleep or not because I know that eventually I will be so tired that I will sleep.

Dare I suggest that those who worry about 'getting a good nights sleep' might already be a anxiety-stricken, depressed, neurotic or have an OCD?

In that case 'Benzo's' might treat the actual fear of not 'getting a good nights sleep'.

I am sure that most medical Doctors would agree with me: That those persons who present at surgery with insomnia have underlying mental problems that almost certainly require treatment.

I don't mean to be glib here but it is very relevant.

Yes, yes, of course you are right. However, the OP is, apparently, not so perfect and neither am I. There are times that some of us do need something to get a good nights sleep. The advice I have received comes from experienced doctors from that well known hospital in Bangkok for the times that I have difficulty falling asleep, but then this is me, not you.

On buying drugs on street corners, often this comes in from China and it is hit and miss and nobody wants to be taking them when it is one of those times when it is a miss. If one is going to rely on medication such as this, I highly advise that it is dispensed from a hospital you can trust. More expensive, yes, but safer.

[HalfSquat]

There is another angle: Personally I don't care if I sleep or not because I know that eventually I will be so tired that I will sleep.

Dare I suggest that those who worry about 'getting a good nights sleep' might already be a anxiety-stricken, depressed, neurotic or have an OCD?

Perhaps. I know I don't *need* a good nights sleep but I would like one as I don't like being so tired the following day I can't do my job properly.

Most days I could easily fall asleep during the afternoon but it is not appropriate. When I get into bed at night that tired feeling has passed and I cannot sleep easily

I will have a look a the Atarax as it sounds good.

I don't watch TV in bed. Just get into bed and read most nights as reading helps my eyes get tired ready for sleep.

[Old Man River]

There is another angle: Personally I don't care if I sleep or not because I know that eventually I will be so tired that I will sleep.

Dare I suggest that those who worry about 'getting a good nights sleep' might already be a anxiety-stricken, depressed, neurotic or have an OCD?

Perhaps. I know I don't *need* a good nights sleep but I would like one as I don't like being so tired the following day I can't do my job properly.

Most days I could easily fall asleep during the afternoon but it is not appropriate. When I get into bed at night that tired feeling has passed and I cannot sleep easily

I will have a look a the Atarax as it sounds good.

I don't watch TV in bed. Just get into bed and read most nights as reading helps my eyes get tired ready for sleep.

If you do go the Atarax route, please let us know your experience. So far, I haven't had a doctor mention it to me, but then I don't take too much of these things anyway. I would be interested in knowing if you end up with that horrible drowsy hangover. I hate that. A quick check on the internet shows it to have a half life of 7-10 hours. The thing I like about Ambien is that its half life is in the 2-4 hour range, so it doesn't stay with you the next day.

[Scott]

My doctor gives me Lorazepam. I keep it in my night stand and only use it when my mind starts racing, which isn't often, but when that happens, I know I will not get to sleep for hours.

I've had disturbed sleep since I was a pre-teen. I won't serious sleep disturbances, but enough to lower efficiency. Over the years, I've come up with a few things that work for me. You, however, have to find out what works for you. I have a TV in my bedroom and it's the best sleeping pill ever. I watch TV and it really zones the mind out. It's also quite easy here in Thailand because I don't have to finish watching a show--they replay them over and over again.

I also have a number of different sleep 'projects' that I go to sleep by. One is building my ideal dream house--I usually fall asleep sitting by the swimming pool. Make sure they are pleasant and relaxing things.

I also have a cat who insists on laying on my chest and being gently scratched behind the ears and purrs softly, Since I don't want to wake him, I am usually pretty relaxed by the time he moves next to me.

I always go to bed about the same time and I get up about the same time (or at least wake up about the same time). This helps. I take a nap right after my lunch--15-20 minutes and it takes that horrible sleepiness away.

Caffeine doesn't keep me awake (but it will keep me from wanting to go to sleep). Alcohol, other than very small amounts, don't help me sleep--they cause me stomach problems which are counterproductive as I have to take an antacid during the night. For the same reason, I have to eat a light meal in the evening and an ever so light snack before bedtime--but a heavy meal will keep me awake.

When I get overtired due to work commitments (and social as well), I will occasionally take a tablet because I simply need a full, good nights sleep. For me, the tablets are seldom necessary, but just knowing they are there helps a great deal.

Best of luck.

[perconrad]

It is not often that I cannot sleep, but when it happens I take 2 Tiffy's. It is "over the counter" in pharmacies and they do not give a hang over in the morning.

I also use them when I fly long distance, 2 Tiffy and a drink and I sleep like a baby.

[mauiguy90]

I also have occasional bouts of sleeping problems. I generally can sleep 4-5 hours with no problems, but thereafter tend to wake up and am unable to sleep from that point. I have a supply of melatonin which I use on occasion. Although I use it only occasionally, it reportedly does take about a week to be effective. I generally use it about half an hour before bedtime, then go to bed as I feel its effects. I tried using it after waking up in the middle of the night, but it then tends to have after effects which make me drowsy for a long portion of the day.

I have talked to others about the use of the herb, valerian, which has some history for use by insomniacs. Its reportedly available at Boots and probably at a number of other pharmacies. According to wikipedia, it has varying levels of effectiveness in individuals and also takes several days before it becomes more effective.

If that doesn't work, drink a bottle of wine and listen to some good jazz!

[toptuan]

I also have occasional bouts of sleeping problems. I generally can sleep 4-5 hours with no problems, but thereafter tend to wake up and am unable to sleep from that point. I have a supply of melatonin which I use on occasion. Although I use it only occasionally, it reportedly does take about a week to be effective. I generally use it about half an hour before bedtime, then go to bed as I feel its effects. I tried using it after waking up in the middle of the night, but it then tends to have after effects which make me drowsy for a long portion of the day.

I have talked to others about the use of the herb, valerian, which has some history for use by insomniacs. Its reportedly available at Boots and probably at a number of other pharmacies. According to wikipedia, it has varying levels of effectiveness in individuals and also takes several days before it becomes more effective.

If that doesn't work, drink a bottle of wine and listen to some good jazz!

Is it possible your body only needs 4-5 hours? If you're not tired after your 4-5 hours, get up and get going!

Surprisingly, the older you get, the less sleep you need. In high school I needed at least 8-9 hours. College went down to 7-8 hours. For most of my adult years, it was 6-7. Now, at 60 years old, it's 5-6, and I feel fine.

Most older people think there's something wrong with them when they can't get their standard 8-9 hours like they did in the old high-school days. So many of my older friends compensate by napping in the day and then complain they can't sleep at night. WRONG! Don't make the mistake of trying to take naps during the day--it simply adds to your over-supply of sleep which will keep you awake at night.

All of this, of course, assumes you are exercising at least an hour a day (if you are retired or in a sedentary job), laying off caffeine, nicotene and alcohol! If you're still doing the last three things, then taking sleeping aids is seriously adding to your problems, not solving them.

Don't worry, generally, when your body naturally wakes up after a consistent amount of hours of sleep, it's trying to tell you it doesn't need any more. In that case, embrace the day!

Edited January 30, 2010 by toptuan

[toptuan]

It is not often that I cannot sleep, but when it happens I take 2 Tiffy's. It is "over the counter" in pharmacies and they do not give a hang over in the morning.

I also use them when I fly long distance, 2 Tiffy and a drink and I sleep like a baby.

And for the over-the-counter-unitiated, please define "Tiffy's."

[maxpowers87]

yeah you can buy sleeping tablets over the counter that work really well i had to take some to get my sleeping patterns in some sort of order, even then id only sleep 5/6 hours a night, i dont know if you will get addicted to them, you probably will become dependant on them, there is very little difference really one is physical the other is mental the latter being addicted, i had the same problems it sounds to me like there is something on ur subconscious mind that u might need to deal with, i wake up twice every night, some times up to 5/6 times anything like a car driving past with a loud exhaust will wake me up i find ear plugs and some kind of nite mask does the trick nicely