Living In Thailand - Working Outside

[Sjptain]

Gents

Maybe someone can assist me here, or put me in touch with someone who can...

I live with my Thai wife in Hua Hin, Thailand, but work most of the year (probably 10/11months) outside of the country.

Most of the time my salary is depositted into my UK Bank account.

I am now in the process of changing jobs, moving out of Singapore, and going to go back to work in Russia - however, until i kick off in Russia which could be some time in May, the Agency firm wants to give me a Work Order based out of Thailand business tripping it to the USA & Norway - however, i'm partially reluctant to accept this as i do not know what the tax implications are as i am only here on a Non-Immigrant "O" multi-entry visa.

This is my 5th visa so maybe i should think about going for a residency one, but that won't solve my issue in hand at the moment.

The firm that is contracting them what to know all the details first before agreeing to it, and off course i want to know how much i'm going to be screwed with Tax if it is possible.

Can anyone help here?

Cheers

S

[Maestro]

Income tax

My understanding of your situation, as you explained it, is that your are not resident in Thailand for tax purposes.

I have seen the question raised about Thai tax liabilities on money from foreign income brought into Thailand, eg to cover living expenses in Thailand. The answer was that such money would be taxable in Thailand only if

a. you lived in Thailand for 180 days a year or longer, and

b. you brought the foreign-earned money into Thailand during the same year when you earned it. Solution: remit to Thailand money from earnings of earlier years, ie from savings.

Permanent Residency in Thailand

One of the principal requirements currently being used in your case would be evidence of Thai tax receipts for at least three consecutive years on a substantial income (ie not just a small income from interest from a savings account, for example)

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Maestro

[Soutpeel]

First question....how can the company put a work order on you out of Thailand, this would imply it would need to be done through a Thai company or am I misreading something here, if they are intending to do this yes there would be tax implications for you here in Thailand....If the company are Singapore based, why not just do it through Singapore ?

Secondly as a bit of friendly advice....I would be getting your salary deposits out of the UK and get it in an offshore account somewhere out side the EEC.

[thaiphoon]

Concur with Soutpeel and ask why your company wants to go this route. There would need to be a Thai company involved in the background and monthly accounting/withholding tax submissions. You would need a work permit too as you are being classed as "based out of Thailand". And issue of work permit would require employment of 4 Thai employees, but less I believe if setting up branch/regional office structure. As a short term solution it involves a lot of costs and really makes no sense ... unless I've missed something too.

[astral]

Income tax

My understanding of your situation, as you explained it, is that your are not resident in Thailand for tax purposes.

I have seen the question raised about Thai tax liabilities on money from foreign income brought into Thailand, eg to cover living expenses in Thailand. The answer was that such money would be taxable in Thailand only if

a. you lived in Thailand for 180 days a year or longer, and

b. you brought the foreign-earned money into Thailand during the same year when you earned it. Solution: remit to Thailand money from earnings of earlier years, ie from savings.

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Maestro

I agree with these points.

On point b.

Funds remitted in the cuurrent year are not taxed, if you can show they are already taxed overseas.

The UK has a dual tax agreement with Thailand.

What is your situation with the UK tax man.

Do you pay tax there?

Do you need to? Consider a offshore account in the Isle of Man

Please feel free to PM me for more info.

[InterestedObserver]

Agree. Work outside Thailand, have salary paid into a bank account outside Thailand, use funds from previous years for living expenses = No Thai income tax liability. Do not bring any funds into Thailand during the tax year earned. Use separate foreign savings account to live off.

Edited February 21, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[InterestedObserver]

You would need a work permit too as you are being classed as "based out of Thailand".

Disagree. Not working in Thailand, no need for a Thai work permit.

[Soutpeel]

Do you need to? Consider a offshore account in the Isle of Man

Personally I would suggest somewhere well away from Europe completely, definitely outside the EEC.

IOM, Jersey etc just doesnt do it for me these days....too close to Flash Gordon and his cronies

[Soutpeel]

You would need a work permit too as you are being classed as "based out of Thailand".

Disagree. Not working in Thailand, no need for a Thai work permit.

Beleive the answer to this one is a Yes and No, know of people who have worked for Thai companies in Thailand and then seconded by the Thai company to another country and had to maintain the WP, this may be becasue it was easier for the company....ie Tax etc, but they maintained the WP none the less..

Interesting question however....how exactly does the Labour dept/immigration deal with that one ??

[thaiphoon]

You would need a work permit too as you are being classed as "based out of Thailand".

Disagree. Not working in Thailand, no need for a Thai work permit.

It is an interesting situation. The Op says "the Agency firm wants to give me a Work Order based out of Thailand". So, from a legal perspective, he would be officially working from Thailand. And that would require a WP and sponsorship by a Thai company. Where the work is actually done is irrelevant. Why the paperwork has to say "Thailand" I do not know. As Soutpeel suggests, keep the paperwork running through Singapore (or anywhere but Thailand) and the issue goes away. Or work under the radar, but is not legal.

[Sjptain]

Gents

Thanks for your input, let me see if i can clarify more.

1) The Work Order would be for me to travel from Thailand to different countries, no physical work would be done in Thailand, that said, the Agency have an office in Singapore, but because i am living here in Thailand the Company want them to organise a 3rd Party to hire me out of Thailand, and do not want them to use Singapore as a base because i don't live there. So that is why the paperwork would have to say Thailand - simply as my Point of Origin.

2) I am a UK expatriate, and non-tax paying - even have the letter from HMR&C advising i no longer need to file tax returns unless i return to the UK to work. I could ask them to use the UK as they would be provided with a NT tax number, but then all travel would have to originate from there.

3) Last job, Singapore taxes were paid, and salary went into UK account tax paid.

Looking at responses so far, i'm more or less screwed to having the Agency to keep my base here, and they need to look at other avenues outside of Thailand.

Unless i open up a Thailand Company and have a Work Permit - don't think there is sufficient time for that, and for the matter of 6 - 8 weeks is it worth it. Maybe better to sit at home and relax and wait for the main work to commence.

Regards

Steve

[Soutpeel]

Gents

Thanks for your input, let me see if i can clarify more.

1) The Work Order would be for me to travel from Thailand to different countries, no physical work would be done in Thailand, that said, the Agency have an office in Singapore, but because i am living here in Thailand the Company want them to organise a 3rd Party to hire me out of Thailand, and do not want them to use Singapore as a base because i don't live there. So that is why the paperwork would have to say Thailand - simply as my Point of Origin.

2) I am a UK expatriate, and non-tax paying - even have the letter from HMR&C advising i no longer need to file tax returns unless i return to the UK to work. I could ask them to use the UK as they would be provided with a NT tax number, but then all travel would have to originate from there.

3) Last job, Singapore taxes were paid, and salary went into UK account tax paid.

Looking at responses so far, i'm more or less screwed to having the Agency to keep my base here, and they need to look at other avenues outside of Thailand.

Unless i open up a Thailand Company and have a Work Permit - don't think there is sufficient time for that, and for the matter of 6 - 8 weeks is it worth it. Maybe better to sit at home and relax and wait for the main work to commence.

Regards

Steve

I know of companies who could facilitate this for you, but will not be for free, in honesty for 6-8 weeks not worth the hassle....but none the wiser why a company would place a work order on you in Thailand to travel to other countries ??...unless there is a fiddle going on ??

[NanLaew]

Do you need to? Consider a offshore account in the Isle of Man

Personally I would suggest somewhere well away from Europe completely, definitely outside the EEC.

IOM, Jersey etc just doesnt do it for me these days....too close to Flash Gordon and his cronies

So if the Channel Isles and Isle of Man banks are considered unsafe, where would you suggest?

[Soutpeel]

Do you need to? Consider a offshore account in the Isle of Man

Personally I would suggest somewhere well away from Europe completely, definitely outside the EEC.

IOM, Jersey etc just doesnt do it for me these days....too close to Flash Gordon and his cronies

So if the Channel Isles and Isle of Man banks are considered unsafe, where would you suggest?

Singapore has worked for me since I pulled out of Jersey, this was on the back of the rumours of a 20% witholding tax for "EU citizens" a few years ago.

You can always look at HK, Belize, would avoid the Caymans as believe Uncle Sam is taking an interest there and a few companies have shut up shop and moved to Dublin....

[Sjptain]

I know of companies who could facilitate this for you, but will not be for free, in honesty for 6-8 weeks not worth the hassle....but none the wiser why a company would place a work order on you in Thailand to travel to other countries ??...unless there is a fiddle going on ??

Soutpeel

Not to my knowledge there is no fiddle - the Agency would be quite happy to accommodate me. The problem is when they go back to the Company who i will be working for (bear in mind the Agent will pay my services, and get so much from the Company for whatever i work i do for them). However the Company been out of the USA and most of the people working for them not been outside of the USA, can't understand how i can reside in Thailand, but not pay taxes - the fact that i'm not in the country for more than 6-8weeks a year doesn't matter to them. They are just looking to ensure they are not condoning tax evasion - that's my take on it.

If i can go back to the agent tomorrow and say - ok you can do a deal for me in Thailand, and this is what needs to happen, then they will build in what they need to ensure everything is covered and all questions answered.

For the future, if i want to remain in Thailand and doing work outside - is there anything i should consider doing?

Cheers

Steve

[InterestedObserver]

There are literally thousands of expats living in and based out of Thailand who work overseas and don't pay Thai income taxes nor do they have Thai work permits. Besides the previous points on Thai income taxes, if you don't reside in Thailand for more than 180 days in a tax year then you are a non-resident for Thai tax purposes. NO Thai income taxes owed or assessed. Whether or not you file a tax return in your home country is another matter entirely.

Edited February 21, 2010 by InterestedObserver