Burning Season And The Tragedy Of The Commons

[chiangmaiexpat]

Guy and gal do backbreaking labour, for months, to maybe see a 5K baht return per rai, when most farms are relatively small? As in under 50 rai? And you think he/she can afford to fire up the tractors to plow the chaff under, when making only a few thousand dollars a year, after debt to the loan sharks, and the equipment vendors, and the seed salesmen, etc. are paid off? The only people who make money in the rice business are the millers, middlemen, and exporters. The farmers make squat. So you want them to fire up the tractors, to plow the chaff under?

Yes we do. A traditional harrow will do.

OK, this was slightly sarcastic. The point is that burning chaff renders only short-term benefits while it accelerates soil nutrient depletion in the long run. Straw can be plowed under, it can be used for livestock husbandry, or it can be composted, but yes, some machinery is necessary for these uses. Burning it as "poor man's fertiliser" is very low tech and quite ineffective. But then again, they build houses in this country with nothing but a hoe and a hammer.

I think you gave a brief and accurate summary of the socioeconomic situation of Thai rice farmers. Thank you for that. This is something that needs to be considered. The government needs to implement regulatory measures to help these farmers abandon neolithic practices in favour of better techniques and bring them to a higher level of operation. That could mean tambon-level education, micro-financing programs, regulation of the rice milling industry etc., community-shared machinery, and so on.

However, it is naive to assign the entire responsibility to the administration. Cooperation of the people is necessary. And I do see weaknesses in this area. Some subsistence farmers may indeed be too poor to afford the ubiquitous Kubota tractor. But many others aren't, yet prefer to buy motorcycles, TVs and consumer goods. Understandable, but short-sighted. Since I've been in Thailand for almost two decades, I can cite plenty of anecdotal evidence for this. I will tell a few.

I have a neighbour who is too miserly to pay the fee of 40 THB per month for the Orbortor rubbish collection. He either slips the rubbish into our tons at night, or he burns it in the garden. Yet he drinks the equivalent amount of whiskey and beer every day. I know of another family that is simply too lazy to cut the grass and vegetation in their garden and instead just burns it once a year. It's their chosen method of spring cleaning. Finally, I have seen farmers who can afford tractors and actually own them, but still walk around with a bottle of petrol and a lighter in March. They don't care about composting and baling, because they are incapable of thinking beyond the next harvest and the next plate of rice.

This problem needs to be addressed as well, and according to the experience of any society, it can only be addressed by introducing (and enforcing!) penalties for behaviour that is harmful to the common good. As previously mentioned the profit maximisation equation needs to be changed in favour of behaviours that benefit society as a whole. This is the natural task of the state.

Cheers, CMX

[orang37]

In response to a post by McGriffith, ChiangMaiExpat wrote :

I think you gave a brief and accurate summary of the socioeconomic situation of Thai rice farmers. Thank you for that.

We do not believe any "brief and accurate summary of the socioeconomic situation of Thai rice farmers" has appeared here.

No one has discussed the varying seasonal demands for labor-input over time in the rice cultivation cycle which have very important cultural dimensions, and social dimensions. To say that northern Thai traditional culture, and sense of identity, is integrated in the most fundamental way with the yearly cycle of two-crop rice cultivation in the rich river valleys would be an understatement. To say that "traditional culture" has been rapidly "submerged" by accellerated modernization and technology, and westernization, would also be an understatement.

And, saying the above in no way discounts the observations made by McGriffith of the "net" economics of rice cultivation, or the observations of the human behavior dimensions of waste and negligence reported by ChiangMaiExpat.

Nor has anyone discussed, with any statistical significance, the relationship of other types of farming (corn, garlic, vegetables, etc.) and its generation of bio-waste, and how it is disposed.

This entire thread is "infested" with an idealized, and subliminally patronizing, view which is essentially asking a rhetorical question : "Why isn't Thailand like America or Europe" ? Perhaps more crudely translated as : "Gosh, why aren't Thai people smart enough to think and behave like we (Farang) do ?"

Ignoring the history of the long, slow progress toward ecologically sound practices in the so-called "advanced developed countries," and the social and political difficulties of the development of those practices, the struggles (and even political violence) needed to finally get legislative regulations that promote ecologically sound practices, we suddenly, in naive wonder, just say "why aren't the Thais using these obviously sound practices" ?

Finally, to really add insult to injury, the implication is being made that there is some agriculturally related pollution problem in Thailand that is qualitatively different than simlar problems in the Phillipines, or Indonesia, India, or certain areas in the so-called "advanced developing nations," or so many countries in Africa.

But, let's not get confused thinking about things here in Thailand in global context : so what if Thailand is now a net importer of soy-beans from Brazil, as Taiwan, and China : so what if the rain-forest is being destroyed in Brazil to create soy plantations. After all the Brazilians are "advanced" people, like us, aren't they ? Most of the world's most polluted cities are in China, by the way.

When ChiangMaiExpat writes :

The government needs to implement regulatory measures to help these farmers abandon neolithic practices in favour of better techniques and bring them to a higher level of operation.

We personally agree with his view (while finding the phrase "neolithic practices" suggestive of prejudice and emotional bias) : but we think it's up to Thais to decide what their government and society should be like, not farangs. We consider such views a form of "idealism" which are good to think about, particularly good as tranquilizers to help us escape the intolerable contradictions we observe directly, and which impinge on us negatively ... cough, cough, cough.

And there a lot of intelligent Thais here who are very concerned with these issues, and politically active. In the vast wave of political "populism" now in a national political psychodrama of immense proportions, is also (perhaps temporarily "submerged" in the "showdown" ?) the striving of progressives and small farmers, and Thai intelligentsia, who wish for real social and agrarian reform. We don't think that belongs to one particular "color," either.

Somewhere between "understatements," and "overstatements" : is there a "truth" ? We leave that for philosphers. Cough, cough, cough.

If we could just get back to the "good old days" when, for those who think : "life is a comedy," and only, for those who feel : "life is a tragedy."

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 25, 2010 by orang37

[MESmith]

Which farmers are not using a tractor to prepare their land for rice cultivation?  All around my part of the valley they use a 4 wheel kubota to till the soil when dry, followed by 2 wheel kubota to till the soil when flooded.  Most don't own the 4 wheel tractor, but pay someone to do this.  But they all do it, prior to flooding the land.  So, where is the additional cost burden on the farmer who doesn't burn his ricestraw?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

what does it cost to have a third party service to plow a rai of land anyway? I thought it was about 150 to 250 baht depending on how many tillage wheels are used. More wheels slows things down while more throughly turning the soil and uses more petrol.

[MESmith]

what does it cost to have a third party service to plow a rai of land anyway? I thought it was about 150 to 250 baht depending on how many tillage wheels are used. More wheels slows things down while more throughly turning the soil and uses more petrol.

There was a recent thread in the farming forum on this.  200 to 350 baht, was quoted, the price dependent on how deep the soil was tilled.

[PeaceBlondie]

Very interesting discussion, by farang. But we don't have input.

[chuang]

This is the way they have cleared their land for hundreds of years so do you think that they are going to change just because a few old farangs are not happy with the way they do things.

Where i come from we would just say "mind your own business" and i'm sure thats what the Thais are thinking if not saying, this is after all their country .

"just because a few old farangs".... ...I love it...

[chiangmaiexpat]

We personally agree with his view (while finding the phrase "neolithic practices" suggestive of prejudice and emotional bias) : but we think it's up to Thais to decide what their government and society should be like, not farangs.

We?

Certainly it is up to the Thais to make and implement decisions. We are just observers. The purpose of this discussion is not to tell the Thai people what to do, but to identify the causes of the problem and improve our own understanding. By the way, slash and burn agriculture is a neolithic practice. It almost certainly goes back to the neolithic revolution which falls into the late neolithic period. Granted, it is a somewhat unflattering term, but historically accurate.

This entire thread is "infested" with an idealized, and subliminally patronizing, view which is essentially asking a rhetorical question : "Why isn't Thailand like America or Europe" ? Perhaps more crudely translated as : "Gosh, why aren't Thai people smart enough to think and behave like we (Farang) do ?"

I am surprised that you read this subliminal message, because -subliminally speaking- I don't wish Thailand to be like Europe or America at all. Probably few other expats do, because we live here precisely because Thailand is not like America or Europe. We think that life in Thailand is rewarding and pleasant, at least most of the time (cough, cough...). We appreciate the cultural variety. This does not contradict the fact that Western cultures have developed some highly desirable aspects that merit close examination for possible adoption by Thai society. I mean, the Thais have no problems adopting Gucci handbags and iPhones, so why can't they adopt even more sophisticated cultural assets, such as technologies and advanced methods of administration?

Conversely, I believe that there are certain desirable cultural assets to be found in Thai society that merit closer examination and consideration for adoption by Western societies. But this is not the subject matter of this thread.

Ignoring the history of the long, slow progress toward ecologically sound practices in the so-called "advanced developed countries," and the social and political difficulties of the development of those practices, the struggles (and even political violence) needed to finally get legislative regulations that promote ecologically sound practices, we suddenly, in naive wonder, just say "why aren't the Thais using these obviously sound practices"?

To state it bluntly, the Thais do not have the luxury to recapitulate the history and repeat the mistakes of the pioneers. Nobody has. Neither the Chinese, nor the Indonesians, nor the Albanians. The historical opportunity for that has passed. They may pioneer other fields, but in those areas where tried and tested solutions have already been developed by others, adoption is the only logical choice. This is not an East-West thing, but it applies to human progress in general. Nobody in his right mind would say for example, that telecommunications is all good and well, but before we get into telecommunications, let's reinvent Maxwell's equations and do it from scratch. Nobody in his right mind, proposes that slavery is workable societal model, or that the phlogiston theory merits further research, or that Europe should revert to nomadic tribalism. We have left these stages behind us.

Hence, the question is indeed: "why are the Thais not using these obviously sound practices." More precisely, the question is which are the factors that block the quick adoption of such practices? What are the factors that sustain unsound practices? Are there idiosyncratic reasons, cultural elements, financial reasons, technological reasons and how does it all play together? I am not suggesting that the Thais should emulate the West, or even try to, but there are certain things that can be considered no-brainers. Slash and burn agriculture qualifies. It's a bad practice. It's bad in the Amazon, it's bad in China, and it's bad here in Thailand. It harms people and ecosystems. There are no special cultural circumstances that make it a good practice in Northern Thailand. The more painless and quickly this is abandoned, the better for the Thai people. Thais have abandoned illegal logging, so why not abandon slash and burn?

Cheers, CMX

[apetley]

This is the way they have cleared their land for hundreds of years so do you think that they are going to change just because a few old farangs are not happy with the way they do things.

Where i come from we would just say "mind your own business" and i'm sure thats what the Thais are thinking if not saying, this is after all their country .

"just because a few old farangs".... ...I love it...

So the Thai Government try and do something about the problem every year, admittedly with little affect, they threaten penalties for burning, they install air monitoring stations and issue public health advisories and they do this 'just because of a few old farangs' and not for the benefit and health of the majority Thai population?

Amazing Thailand.

[orang37]

... snip ... By the way, slash and burn agriculture is a neolithic practice. It almost certainly goes back to the neolithic revolution which falls into the late neolithic period. Granted, it is a somewhat unflattering term, but historically accurate ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ChiangMaiExpat,

We must respectfully disagree with your apparent belief that "neolithic slash and burn" has any relevance whatsoever to Thailand today.

"Slash and burn" in modern times is associated with rainforests; Thailand does not have rainforests, at least not on the scale of other nations, like Brazil, where the term "slash and burn" is really quite appropriate. Of course clearing of forest land by fire these days in Brazil is more likely being done by corporate mega-farmers using explosives and bulldozers, as well as fire, as by indigenous peoples following ancient custom.

"Slash and burn" in ancient times was associated with the one-time clearing of forested land for agricultural purposes, and with migratory peoples who had to move on and make new fields because existing fields were no longer productive : people who had no concept of "fertilizer," or "letting land lie fallow."

"Slash and burn" in neolithic times was associated also with clearing forested land to create land for primitive farming, and fire in neolithic times was also used for purposes like driving out game, in hunting. There are other uses of fire by hunter-gatherer groups, also. Some people burned off land in a certain area because they had learned that the first natural plants to re-grow after the burn might be something edible, like berries.

The Thai farmer who, today, burns off rice stubble on flat rice land after harvest has nothing in common with anything neolithic, or "slash and burn" : there ain't no "slashing" going on.

The denuding of the mountains in Thailand has a lot to do with teak logging, as well as felling for firewood : we'd actually like to know some statistics on the depletion of the forests in the mountains of northern Thailand related to logging for teak vs. felling for firewood.

The hill-tribe "whatever" farmers these days in northern Thailand are generally not nomadic; their burning off on the mountain slopes for clearing is a very different thing than "slash and burn."

The movie playing in your head may be "Apocalypse Now," but, for better and for worse, that's not the way many Thais experience their own reality.

We feel the clearest thing you are expressing is the "cognitive dissonance" in your own head between what you believe is "reality," and what you observe in Thai people's behavior that does not fit with what you believe is "rational," or "scientific." So, what you find intolerable to perceive, you then need to "put in its place," using pejorative labels like "neolithic slash-and-burn."

For that, on one level, we applaud your humanity, because we are sure you see accurately the harm to the future generation being done by what you observe. You'd have to be "heartless" not to be concerned for the future of the children of this county, if you are an expat who loves this country.

In our hearts, we wish, too, that Thais could "leap-frog" a long development process, and quickly adapt the "best of the west," without losing their unique "Thai-ness."

And if you really explore the history of this country, and the astounding historical fact that Thailand escaped being ruled by a western colonial power ... and how that came about ... well, that's another story.

"Ahhh, if only the Thais had the "Confucian work ethic;" "ahhh, if only the Thais didn't drive like maniacs." We meet so many farangs who seem to be reciting sentences like those frequently in their heads.

But, while such idealism is comforting, it just don't play in the "real" world. And if you turn your attention back to the land you came from : we think you'll see the same forces of expediency and greed at work there today.

To the extent you imply that the Thai farmer is not "sophisticated" agriculturally, we think you are mis-informed.

best, ~o:37;

By the way, you know why we use "we" : because there's two of us in here, one's an orangutan, one's a human. But the meat-package they co-habit, for better and for worse, is the human's body, a body that probably is getting ripe for re-cycling : we opt for the burning, hoping to skip the "slash."

[IanForbes]

Maybe Thailand needs to burn down more hotels, housing developments and karaoke bars, and plant more rice?

[MESmith]

Maybe Thailand needs to burn down more hotels, housing developments and karaoke bars, and plant more rice?

Plant as much rice as they can, wherever they can.  We would love to be able to get hold of some land to grow rice, but unfortunately all land in the valley seems to be priced at redevelopment as residential or industrial property prices 

Nothing wrong with growing rice, but please leave the straw to dry & plough it back in to the soil.  Doesn't cost any extra, & is beneficial in the long run to the soil.

[chiangmaiexpat]

"Slash and burn" in neolithic times was associated also with clearing forested land to create land for primitive farming...

And that is precisely what happens today. If you drive a car into the hills towards the Burmese border that's exactly what you see. People burning undergrowth, bushland, and patches of forests for land cultivation and foraging. This is surely not a "cognitive dissonance" in my head, but something I've seen with my own eyes. It happens for everyone to see. May I respectfully suggest that you get into your car and corroborate this for yourself. It's the Burmese Shan refugees and the hilltribes who do the burning in the mountains, and the Thai people who do the burning in the valleys. There isn't really much of a difference. The same thing goes on in Laos and Burma. Perhaps it comes as a surprise to you that nothing has changed in 8000 years, but in terms of human evolution that is really just the blink of an eye. You may feel easier about by knowing that they are not using flint stones anymore. Today they carry out their neolithic practices with motorcycles, lighters, and petrol. While their tools are up to date, the method essentially hasn't changed... which renders your objection insubstantial.

In our hearts, we wish, too, that Thais could "leap-frog" a long development process, and quickly adapt the "best of the west," without losing their unique "Thai-ness."

Well, in this case wouldn't it be the right thing to aid them in achieving just that in whatever possible way? But in order to do that, one must first understand what exactly goes wrong at the present. Analysis must precede action. One needs to understand how this society works in order to find the causes for its problems. And that's precisely what this thread is about.

Let me try another angle. If you ask the average farang what he/she believes to be the cause of the smog problem, the most likely answer you get is: "because of ignorance.", "because they don't know any better." If you scroll backwards you will find that this is among the first answers this thread has provoked. Golly! Such explanatory power! Teach 'em. Case closed.

If you are to accept this hypothesis, then please consider conducting a small social experiment. Pick a farmer of your choice, perhaps the lad who mows your lawn, and invite him over for a bottle of Thai whiskey in the evening (surely he won't refuse!). Then tell him everything about burning, smog, inversion layers, particulate matter, lung cancer, in short the entire content of a typical February Thai Visa thread, but put it into simple farmer terms. In other words, teach'em.

Once you have taught your farmer, put him back into his normal environment and observe how the newly gained knowledge will change his behaviour. What are the chances that he will never again set fire to a nice large and dry heap of straw? The chances are actually quite slim. But what does this prove? It proves that it is not ignorance alone, and perhaps not ignorance at all that keeps people from making bad choices or using bad practices. It is something else. - That something else has social, ethical and psychological dimensions; it is quite complex and not easy to understand at all.

Did I make myself clearer this time?

Cheers, CMX

Edited February 25, 2010 by chiangmaiexpat

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ChiangMaiExpat,

We know your heart's in the right place, and you are obviously intelligent. And yes, "there's a whole lot of burnin' going on."

You believe, it seems, that just giving people information about the effects of pollution will modify behavior; we are pessimisitc on that. Even more pessimistic about the idea that buying a Thai neighbor a bottle of whisky, and then giving them the information on pollution while they drink it, would have any effect other than a hangover on their part (we don't drink alcohol).

If all the alcohol (for drinking) in Thailand disappeared, along with all the yaa baa, and all the tobacco; oh, let's let the lottery go bye-bye, too : we'd be down on our knees giving thanks to The Great Empty. But we don't expect that to happen.

When you say :

One needs to understand how this society works in order to find the causes for its problems. And that's precisely what this thread is about. "

We can only reply that to our eyes this thread is about how westerners perceive Thai behavior in agriculture from a distinctively western scientific viewpoint, but that's only our reaction. We ain't saying you ain't seeing what you see.

For us studying Thai history, and cultural history, is a way to attempt to understand how the society once "worked," or "always didn't work," and an attempt to understand current "negative" or "paradoxical" behavior in the context of the impact of rapid social change and modernization over a little more than a century on an existing "feudal" culture.

But there's a really important distinction between saying certain behaviors "reflect and embody" culture, and saying certain behaviors are inherently chaotic results of the breakdown of a traditional culture, or the rapid transition of a culture. And, one can also take the view that certain behaviors are not "culture bound."

In the case of northern Thailand (Lanna) we can appreciate that before the first railroad reached here (1921), "Lanna" was only just finishing being fully absorbed by the modern Thai state. We can appreciate that Chiang Mai was a Burmese colony for nearly 200 years, that it was deserted and abandoned for nearly twenty years about the time of the founding of the American Republic, and after its final "liberation" by King Kawila of Lampang in 1796 (around the time of the founding of the Chakri dynasty), it was repopulated by systematic raiding among Shan, Tai Lue, Tai Yai peoples, as well as by other Thais from Lampang, and other groups, like the Mon, some of whom relocated here (like the silversmiths of Wu Lai road) to escape the extortion of the Burmese. King Kawila, by the way, had had his ears cut off by King Thaksin.

Understanding northern Thailand as a zone of continual warfare and plunder for hundreds of years following the decline after the 16th. century, with a highly feudal caste system, and systematic raiding of other populations, and a giant collage of all different ethnic types of people, in our view helps set the stage for trying to understand northern Thailand's helter-skelter journey into the modern era. Want a reading list ? : just PM..

The beauty of these northern Thai river-etched valleys that support fantastically productive double-crop per-year rice output has also been, historically, their vulnerability : they're hard to defend, militarily. We can thank the British for raping Burma, and easing the Burmese threat to northern Thailand to some extent, for modern Lanna's becoming part of the modern Thai state, also.

And there are some real "gaps" in our discussion here : like : what are Thai children being taught in school about the environment and pollution, for example. What are the Thai people writing and reading in their own newspapers about pollution in northern Thailand ?

What does it mean that, at this time in Thailand, around 90% of the population own less than 1 rai of land, and 10% of the population own, on average, over 100 rai ? What does it mean there 500,000 landless families, and 75% of the land owned by the richest 10% lies idle (source of these figures on request : they are taken from a Bangkok Post editorial) ?

You mentioned the "average farang" here : well, we're not optimistic about the "average farang," either.

We are, however, optimistic, about one farang : you May you never lose your passion for social justice and humanity. The fact we've lost some of that quality disturbs us greatly, and "blaming it on getting old" doesn't seem to help, at all.

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 25, 2010 by orang37

[orang37]

Two small corrections to the previous message in the interests of accuracy :

1. the name of King Taksin should not be transliterated as "King Thaksin" (even though you will see that variant spelling).

2. King Kawila (also seen transliterated as "Kavila") of Lampang did not have his ears "cut off" by King Taksin : the punishment rendered unto his ears is variously described by historians as a "rimming," or a "trimming of the ear lobes."

fyi : December 28 is a Thai National day of observance in honor of King Taksin (Wan Somdet Phra Chao Taksin Maharat), but is not a national holiday.

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 25, 2010 by orang37

[monkfish]

I was going to move to CM but changed my mind because of this problem.

Thanks to TV for the infos!

[nokia]

Hey CM folks,

Over in Hang Dong this evening the sky is rather foggy as if it's going to rain and the air is full of smoke particles.

How's the situation on your side, over to you....

[MESmith]

Hey CM folks,

Over in Hang Dong this evening the sky is rather foggy as if it's going to rain and the air is full of smoke particles.

How's the situation on your side, over to you....

Been quite smoggy over on the eastern side of the valley.  I say smoggy rather than foggy, 'cos there's stuff in the air that gets to your eyes when outside for a while.  Yesterday was hazy, poor visibility, but the air felt fine.

[Chicog]

Either this issue is just being discussed more, or burning is becoming more frequent and the problem is worsening.

Would it be obtuse to suggest that an ever-increasing population and accelerating poverty are significant factors here?

I get very fed up listening to all these climate change bods talking about CO2, green fuels, green this and green that when the elephant in the room is third world countries having more children than they can feed and doing what comes naturally and increasing their consumption of natural resources to feed the extra mouths.

And not helped of course by certain developed nations consuming everything they can buy and more.

Not totally related, but there is an excellent Nat Geo documentary called Aftermath Population Zero (I think), which shows what would happen to the planet if mankind simply disappeared.

In it they opine that all of the areas of vegetation man has destroyed in his relatively short tenure as a tool-using beast (oo-er missus!) will be virtually restored to its previous state in under 300 years.

[whiterussian]

Dont they burn the forests to get at the ever so tasty (and expensive) ants nests?

Thats what 'er indoors says anyhow. (her village's mountain view was still enhanced with ruby red lines of forest fires)

Seems worth it to me for a bowl of ant rice krispies.

http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=2635

Biomass Burning in Southeast Asia - Photo of Burma

Ewok calandar

Maybe we should start factory farming Ants? Collapse the market! - Maybe a NGO ant farm collective

"The villagers think that mushrooms grow well in burnt areas..."

Ah ha! So its the mushroom mafia! 150 thb per kg! Nice work if you can get it!

http://enviroscope.iges.or.jp/modules/envi...h/ir98-3-13.pdf

Edited February 27, 2010 by whiterussian

[whiterussian]

Mushrooms: Mushrooms are for household consumption and for sale to traders. Ninety percent of the villagers of Moo 4 collect mushrooms. Mushroom collecting is mostly done by women. The villagers think that the mushrooms grow well in the burnt area, thus, they burn the forests to give way to mushroom growing. Mushrooms of different kinds being collected are

Kind of Mushroom Reaping time, Price per kg (baht)1

Hed Lom (Lentinus polychrous) Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov - 150

Hed Tob (Astreaus hygrometricus) Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov - 100

Hed Kai Harn (Amanita sp) Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov - 60

Hed Kamin Lek (Cantharellus minor) Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov -

Hed Na Moi (Russula cyanoxantha) Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov 5-10

Thai Hed Lom, ready for export?

http://www.alohamedicinals.com/book2/chapter-10-01.pdf

costs of a mushroom farm

$300 USD approx = 10,000 thb for 44 'beds'

10kg straw = 1kg mushrooms

is that 2600 thb from 44 beds at 150 thb per kg? i guess you can re-use some of the growing medium? eg: cotton-waste?

slim-pickins still. My maths is probably shoddy, or maybe the price per kg is better with cultivated mushies.

im bored, time for ant egg and mushroom soup.

Edited February 27, 2010 by whiterussian

[PeaceBlondie]

This discussion beats navel contemplation, but with similar results.

[Thailand]

Brings to mind the definition of "Mushroom management" of employees - keep em in the dark and throw shit on them.

[whiterussian]

North braces for intense air-pollution season

The air pollution season in the North might be worse this year, as smog has been spotted in several areas and forest fires in Chiang Mai and Lamphun have doubled from last year's level.

Wichai Kitmee, acting director of Protected Areas Regional Office 16, yesterday said the hot and arid conditions would cause a build-up of dry leaves. Mae Cham district alone has 30,000 tonnes of cornhusks, most of which will be disposed of by burning

http://www.bioline.org.br/abstract?id=ja07083〈=en

Journal of Applied Sciences and Environmental Management, Vol. 11, No. 3, 2007, pp. 153-156 en Waste Re-Cycling Using Edible Mushroom Cultivation Elenwo, E.N. & Okere, S.E.

Waste re-cycling through edible mushroom cultivation was investigated. Edible mushroom species used in this study include Pleurotus tuber-regium , Pleurotus osteratus var florida and Volvariella volvacea , while the agricultural wastes include corn cob, corn husk and poultry waste (used as an additive).Two kilogrammes of each waste/substrate was mixed with different concentrations of poultry waste, 0%, 1.5%, 2.5%, 3.5% and 2% Lime (CaCO3), composted, bagged and pasteurized before being seeded with spawns of Pleurotus tuber-regium, Pleurotus osteratus var florida grown on guinea corn and Volvariella volvacea spawn grown on cotton waste respectively. They were incubated in high-density polypropylene bags and grown at room temperatures (27 - 300c) in a specially constructed growth chamber. The mean mushroom weight in the range (16 – 118.9) grams and the bioconversion efficiency in the range (0.09 – 0.67%) obtained from the three mushroom species are statistically different at (P=0.05). There was no statistical difference at (P=0.05) in the following parameters: Mean number of mushroom (1.4 – 18.7), the biological efficiency in the range (0.8 – 5.60%) and also the dry matter loss in the range (50 – 247.6%). The highest mushroom quality (very big) (5.0%of MNM) was obtained from P. tuber-regium on corn cob. P.tuber-regium, P osteratus var florida, V.volvacea have shown outstanding prospects in recycling huge agricultural wastes; such as corn cob, <u>corn husk</u>, and poultry waste in an environmental friendly manner.

So now its just the leaf problem (paper? growing medium for... mushies?)

and the ant problem (ant farms)

or source a cheaper supply and wipeout the local market - shift the problem elsewhere

think i might try a mushroom farm on my(her) land over at San K? anyone interested PM me... im outta here.

roll on the rainy season

Edited February 27, 2010 by whiterussian

[Samuian]

If one can't change it a good alternative seems to move to the coast, away from industries, farm and cattle...

[xenophanes]

This is the way they have cleared their land for hundreds of years so do you think that they are going to change just because a few old farangs are not happy with the way they do things.

Where i come from we would just say "mind your own business" and i'm sure thats what the Thais are thinking if not saying, this is after all their country .

Just because something has been practised 'for hundreds of years' does not make it a good practise.

I can assure you that it is not a problem that 'a few old farangs' are not happy about. I know Thais both young and old who hate the pollution caused by this outdated and ignorant burning. Breathing clean air is a basic human right and is the business of everyone.

Why are you such an apologist alfieconn?

[Robroy]

Much as I love it, Chiang Mai became unliveable for me & my (Thai) girlfriend, because of the smoke.

If I had been rich I would simply have left for 3 months of the year, but that wasn't an option.

The choice was to stay & suffer (& complain) or leave.

I left.

I now live in Cambodia, where there is no smoke (the Khmers don't burn their rice - it obviously isn't necessary), and no visa problems incidentally.

[swain]

Much as I love it, Chiang Mai became unliveable for me & my (Thai) girlfriend, because of the smoke.

If I had been rich I would simply have left for 3 months of the year, but that wasn't an option.

The choice was to stay & suffer (& complain) or leave.

I left.

I now live in Cambodia, where there is no smoke (the Khmers don't burn their rice - it obviously isn't necessary), and no visa problems incidentally.

How is the living there. Smokes not an issue.. but how is the quality of life outside of the fact you can breath. Any regrets? I am thinking of exploring this as an option as well.