UK Pound Collapse 47.99 against the Baht

[Bagwan]

To any pensioner out here in Thailand. I don't have much sympathy as what you are doing is acting as a complete drain on UK economy. Your money is spent completely in Thailand. BUT....

I am not into name calling or there would be many 'expletive deleteds' in this post, but I do suggest that you connect your brain before posting. I was in harms way in Korea, Suez, Malaysia and Indonesia. I also chased the Argies away from the Falklands in 1952. My reward was some pretty ribbons attached to something looking like half a crown. (Google that if you are at a loss). I do not complain about that since I was a volunteer and accrued many benefits from Service life. At all times I paid income tax and NI contributions, even when working outside of the UK in civilian life. At all times, and I still do, regard myself as a hard working, law abiding citizen who contributed to my mother country and its populace.

By moving to Thailand I helped free up the housing market, by retiring early I helped free up the labour market (both admittedly in minor ways), I do not draw on local council resources (library, meals on wheels, social workers, free bus pass, cheap TV) nor do I call on Government benefits (free prescriptions, free medical care, reduced rail fares) the cost for which I contributed, and still am contributing,

My thanks from a grateful country? My state pension is frozen and if I returned to the UK for specialist medical treatment I should have to shoulder the cost. To add to the insult I have been disenfranchised so that I am paying money to a Government in which I have no say in electing. So I am a drain on the UK economy? Really?

So, according to you, to be a good citizen I have to sit and shiver in winter, count every penny, ignore the lawlessness, unable to wander down the the pub in the evening for fear that I am set upon by young hooligans, mocked by young dickheads for being elderly, while recent arrivals are treated handsomely? Or perhaps you would like me to kick the bucket? Am I not entitled and deserving of my place in the sun in my declining years?

BTW do you pay your taxes and NI contributions? With your mind set why not dash round to your parents or grandparents and tell them they are a drain on the UK's resources?

Your post displays all the intelligence and intellect on public display by the vast majority of Thais riding motor bikes.

[Bagwan]

To any pensioner out here in Thailand. I don't have much sympathy as what you are doing is acting as a complete drain on UK economy. Your money is spent completely in Thailand. BUT....

I am not into name calling or there would be many 'expletive deleteds' in this post, but I do suggest that you connect your brain before posting. I was in harms way in Korea, Suez, Malaysia and Indonesia. I also chased the Argies away from the Falklands in 1952. My reward was some pretty ribbons attached to something looking like half a crown. (Google that if you are at a loss). I do not complain about that since I was a volunteer and accrued many benefits from Service life. At all times I paid income tax and NI contributions, even when working outside of the UK in civilian life. At all times, and I still do, regard myself as a hard working, law abiding citizen who contributed to my mother country and its populace.

By moving to Thailand I helped free up the housing market, by retiring early I helped free up the labour market (both admittedly in minor ways), I do not draw on local council resources (library, meals on wheels, social workers, free bus pass, cheap TV) nor do I call on Government benefits (free prescriptions, free medical care, reduced rail fares) the cost for which I contributed, and still am contributing,

My thanks from a grateful country? My state pension is frozen and if I returned to the UK for specialist medical treatment I should have to shoulder the cost. To add to the insult I have been disenfranchised so that I am paying money to a Government in which I have no say in electing. So I am a drain on the UK economy? Really?

So, according to you, to be a good citizen I have to sit and shiver in winter, count every penny, ignore the lawlessness, unable to wander down the the pub in the evening for fear that I am set upon by young hooligans, mocked by young dickheads for being elderly, while recent arrivals are treated handsomely? Or perhaps you would like me to kick the bucket? Am I not entitled and deserving of my place in the sun in my declining years?

BTW do you pay your taxes and NI contributions? With your mind set why not dash round to your parents or grandparents and tell them they are a drain on the UK's resources?

Your post displays all the intelligence and intellect on public display by the vast majority of Thais riding motor bikes.

[theoldgit]

Well written Bagwan, I for one salute you sir

[mommysboy]

To any pensioner out here in Thailand. I don't have much sympathy as what you are doing is acting as a complete drain on UK economy. Your money is spent completely in Thailand. BUT....

I am not into name calling or there would be many 'expletive deleteds' in this post, but I do suggest that you connect your brain before posting. I was in harms way in Korea, Suez, Malaysia and Indonesia. I also chased the Argies away from the Falklands in 1952. My reward was some pretty ribbons attached to something looking like half a crown. (Google that if you are at a loss). I do not complain about that since I was a volunteer and accrued many benefits from Service life. At all times I paid income tax and NI contributions, even when working outside of the UK in civilian life. At all times, and I still do, regard myself as a hard working, law abiding citizen who contributed to my mother country and its populace.

By moving to Thailand I helped free up the housing market, by retiring early I helped free up the labour market (both admittedly in minor ways), I do not draw on local council resources (library, meals on wheels, social workers, free bus pass, cheap TV) nor do I call on Government benefits (free prescriptions, free medical care, reduced rail fares) the cost for which I contributed, and still am contributing,

My thanks from a grateful country? My state pension is frozen and if I returned to the UK for specialist medical treatment I should have to shoulder the cost. To add to the insult I have been disenfranchised so that I am paying money to a Government in which I have no say in electing. So I am a drain on the UK economy? Really?

So, according to you, to be a good citizen I have to sit and shiver in winter, count every penny, ignore the lawlessness, unable to wander down the the pub in the evening for fear that I am set upon by young hooligans, mocked by young dickheads for being elderly, while recent arrivals are treated handsomely? Or perhaps you would like me to kick the bucket? Am I not entitled and deserving of my place in the sun in my declining years?

BTW do you pay your taxes and NI contributions? With your mind set why not dash round to your parents or grandparents and tell them they are a drain on the UK's resources?

Your post displays all the intelligence and intellect on public display by the vast majority of Thais riding motor bikes.

You've missed the main point as have many, my argument is basically quite simple and uncontestable really: money that could and should be sploshing about the UK economy creating wealth and providing employment is not doing that as it is sploshing around in another country.

This is not about denying OAPs rightful benefits and treatment at all or condoning abusive behaviour.

[Spee]

Well written Bagwan, I for one salute you sir

Seconded.

It's a crappy thing that governments do to their citizens, especially those who have served. Wish I could say things were better for US citizens who plan to retire in LoS, of which I am one, but it's not good and unlikely to get better any time soon.

[Stephen Cleary]

Prior to the Asian Economic Collapse of 1997, the Pound was always worth no more than 45 baht = 1 pound. That had been the average exchange rate for years, and us Brits in those days weren't complaining, Thailand was cheap.

On my third arrival in Thailand in September 1992 (Black Wednesday) i remember i got just 32.25 baht = 1 pound.

[timekeeper]

Well written Bagwan, I for one salute you sir

me too Bagwan, thank you for your service

long may you enjoy your Autumn years.........

[chiang mai]

Well done Bagwan, you make your point well, thank you also for you service.

[Abrak]

Well I am afraid people are going to have to face up to the sad reality.

First of all your pension and NI do not go towards 'your' pension, they basically finance existing pensioners.

Secondly a combination of declining demographics and a population that lives longer will result in a massive increase in the dependency ratio, so that there is realistically no possibility that the future working population can supply the same sort of benefits that exist now.

Most people have seen the graphs. I think that the safest assumption you can make is that you will not receive a pension in the future. Take an average country like China, there working population will decline 10% by 2050 and their OAPs will increase 3.5x. Current pension contributions and NI probably wouldnt cover the medicare.

[yoshiwara]

The whining is giving me a headache.

Although the pound appears to have stabilised at 50 baht, the medium term pointers appear to be facing south.

The pound seems to be considered less and less an alternative currency option and traders disenchanted with the euro and dollar now appear to look elsewhere rather than sterling.

The question is what action individuals are going to take re their currency savings.

Alternatively do nothing and keep up the whining.

[mommysboy]

Well I am afraid people are going to have to face up to the sad reality.

First of all your pension and NI do not go towards 'your' pension, they basically finance existing pensioners.

Secondly a combination of declining demographics and a population that lives longer will result in a massive increase in the dependency ratio, so that there is realistically no possibility that the future working population can supply the same sort of benefits that exist now.

Most people have seen the graphs. I think that the safest assumption you can make is that you will not receive a pension in the future. Take an average country like China, there working population will decline 10% by 2050 and their OAPs will increase 3.5x. Current pension contributions and NI probably wouldnt cover the medicare.

And this is a big point and without implicating Abrak or CM or anybody else in to my argument, it's simply stating economic fact. IMHO if most individuals had to actually pay for what they (us as a population)receive it would near 60-100% or more of what they actually produce.

And that for people like Bagwan these actually are the golden pension years and will never be experienced again.

Good for Bagwan, I'm a patriot too! Thanks but it seems that having one medal you now want another, simply for living!

Did you also note I also said I have no sympathy, which I don't, nothing more than that. Great, enjoy your life. But don't get on your high horse just because someone disagrees. As for the rest of you sychophants, grow up! we're just talking economic realties here.

[RickBradford]

I guess the heady days of 76 baht to the Pommie peso are still dear to people's memories....

Edited March 5, 2010 by RickBradford

[moetownblues]

To any pensioner out here in Thailand. I don't have much sympathy as what you are doing is acting as a complete drain on UK economy. Your money is spent completely in Thailand. BUT....

I am not into name calling or there would be many 'expletive deleteds' in this post, but I do suggest that you connect your brain before posting. I was in harms way in Korea, Suez, Malaysia and Indonesia. I also chased the Argies away from the Falklands in 1952. My reward was some pretty ribbons attached to something looking like half a crown. (Google that if you are at a loss). I do not complain about that since I was a volunteer and accrued many benefits from Service life. At all times I paid income tax and NI contributions, even when working outside of the UK in civilian life. At all times, and I still do, regard myself as a hard working, law abiding citizen who contributed to my mother country and its populace.

By moving to Thailand I helped free up the housing market, by retiring early I helped free up the labour market (both admittedly in minor ways), I do not draw on local council resources (library, meals on wheels, social workers, free bus pass, cheap TV) nor do I call on Government benefits (free prescriptions, free medical care, reduced rail fares) the cost for which I contributed, and still am contributing,

My thanks from a grateful country? My state pension is frozen and if I returned to the UK for specialist medical treatment I should have to shoulder the cost. To add to the insult I have been disenfranchised so that I am paying money to a Government in which I have no say in electing. So I am a drain on the UK economy? Really?

So, according to you, to be a good citizen I have to sit and shiver in winter, count every penny, ignore the lawlessness, unable to wander down the the pub in the evening for fear that I am set upon by young hooligans, mocked by young dickheads for being elderly, while recent arrivals are treated handsomely? Or perhaps you would like me to kick the bucket? Am I not entitled and deserving of my place in the sun in my declining years?

BTW do you pay your taxes and NI contributions? With your mind set why not dash round to your parents or grandparents and tell them they are a drain on the UK's resources?

Your post displays all the intelligence and intellect on public display by the vast majority of Thais riding motor bikes.

I am not from the UK nor am I a pensioner but I agree with you.

[Gary A]

I am one who can appreciate Bagwan's post. I too served my country (US) and paid into the Social Security system my entire working life. I am now collecting my benefits. I have been accused of taking money that is considered to be some sort of welfare. I really do resent people who think that way and can only think that they are simply jealous. I paid my dues and deserve some return.

[mommysboy]

I am one who can appreciate Bagwan's post. I too served my country (US) and paid into the Social Security system my entire working life. I am now collecting my benefits. I have been accused of taking money that is considered to be some sort of welfare. I really do resent people who think that way and can only think that they are simply jealous. I paid my dues and deserve some return.

Try reading you fool!!! I for one simply said that I did not have sympathy for someone who then spent that money abroad and thus acted as a drain on the economy. People like you are attacked because of your naivety, not because you have your benefits.

[Neeranam]

Your post displays all the intelligence and intellect on public display by the vast majority of Thais riding motor bikes.

Why exactly are you here? Quite an ignorant thing to say.

[mommysboy]

The whining is giving me a headache.

Although the pound appears to have stabilised at 50 baht, the medium term pointers appear to be facing south.

The pound seems to be considered less and less an alternative currency option and traders disenchanted with the euro and dollar now appear to look elsewhere rather than sterling.

The question is what action individuals are going to take re their currency savings.

Alternatively do nothing and keep up the whining.

Oh dear! can I suggest a paracetemol or 50 .

Alternatively you could take up religion I suppose!

[NanLaew]

For this very insignificant subject matter to have reached the dizzying heights of 12 pages in such a short time, this must be driven by what the Aussie's call 'wingeing poms'...

Now we know what country they live in AND their online forum of choice.

[Neeranam]

For this very insignificant subject matter to have reached the dizzying heights of 12 pages in such a short time, this must be driven by what the Aussie's call 'wingeing poms'...

Now we know what country they live in AND their online forum of choice.

Isn't a pom just English people - I'm Scottish and never get called a pom when visiting OZ? I can't understand people posting in threads they find insignificant - the only real reason would be that they feel inferior in some way.

[jayboy]

Am I not entitled and deserving of my place in the sun in my declining years?

You have no entitlement at all.If you can afford it Thailand offers an attractive life for pensioners.Although I sympathise at your state pension being frozen, frankly if that is a critical factor you probably shouldn't be here at all.The Thai Government doesn't encourage low to medium income foreign pensioners to settle here, but has a remarkably tolerant visa policy for those that want to.

I of course have no idea of your personal circumstances but for UK citizens on a tight budget a move to an EC country with reciprocal arrangements makes sense.Of course some can't make that move because of family reasons, but that is a matter of personal responsibility and not something to whine about.

[apetley]

I am one who can appreciate Bagwan's post. I too served my country (US) and paid into the Social Security system my entire working life. I am now collecting my benefits. I have been accused of taking money that is considered to be some sort of welfare. I really do resent people who think that way and can only think that they are simply jealous. I paid my dues and deserve some return.

Try reading you fool!!! I for one simply said that I did not have sympathy for someone who then spent that money abroad and thus acted as a drain on the economy. People like you are attacked because of your naivety, not because you have your benefits.

I'm intrigued as to why you have no sympathy for pensioners who spend THEIR money as they want and see fit?

Do you agree with tourism? Tourists could also be seen as a drain on their home economy because they are spending abroad.

[Spee]

Am I not entitled and deserving of my place in the sun in my declining years?

You have no entitlement at all.

Ummmm ..... excuse me .... I take great offense with this statement. Receiving social security payments in retirement is not an entitlement, nor is being pissed about getting fecked out them a form of whining. Quite the contrary of sitting on one's lazy ass and sucking off the government teat during productive working years.

I have paid into 6-figures into the system over my working years and my contract with the government says they will pay me appx $2500 per month after a certain age. I will never receive anywhere close to the total amount that I put in, because the government breaks the contract every time they feel like it. How would you like it if all your debtors told you one day to just get bent? The US system is bankrupt and I suspect the UK system is close, if not there already. So much for investing in the good faith of the government.

A basic tenet of a free society is the unalienable right to own property, which includes the fruits of one's labors. Each time a government erodes one's right to property, we move further from freedom and closer to tyranny. That goes for Thailand, the US, the UK or anywhere else. The amount of freedom in a given society is directly correlated to the individual's right to their property, which for most of us is our house, our wages and our nest egg.

[theoldgit]

Ummm ..... excuse me .... I take great offense with this statement. Receiving social security payments in retirement is not an entitlement, nor is being pissed about getting fecked out them a form of whining. Quite the contrary of sitting on one's lazy ass and sucking off the government teat during productive working years.

Calm down, why on earth should you take great offense, or as we Brits say great offence, receiving a retirement pension is actually entitlement in the UK and something you pay for during your whole working life. Brits have to pay a percentage of their salary into a National Insurance fund to pay for health and other benefits and to entitle you to a pension following your retirement.

So say you take offence about somebody expecting to receive a pension that he has contributed to throughout his entire working life seems a little odd. Your comment "Quite the contrary of sitting on one's lazy ass and sucking off the government teat during productive working year" actually doesn't make sense to me.

What I will agree with in earlier posts is that when paying National Insurance contributions it doesn't actually go towards funding your pensions, it goes towards funding current pensioners, and that is not sustainable. It's also worth noting that us spongers pay a fair bit for our pensions, when I retired three years ago I was paying in the region of 14,000B per month into the National Insurance pot, and I cannot receive my pension for a further three years.

For the avoidance I of doubt I am not whinging, wining, complaining or anything else, I knew the rules before I moved to Thailand and accept them, but it is very tempting to return to the UK, claim everything and be a real burden on the state.

[Bagwan]

You've missed the main point as have many, my argument is basically quite simple and uncontestable really: money that could and should be sploshing about the UK economy creating wealth and providing employment is not doing that as it is sploshing around in another country.

This is not about denying OAPs rightful benefits and treatment at all or condoning abusive behaviour.

I believe that I have the right to spend and invest MY money as I wish. Do you own a Japanese car? Are you running it on fuel extracted from the bed of the North Sea? How much of the food that you consume is produced or processed in the UK? Are you a wine drinker? Who actually owns the brewers of your favourite pint? Your PC was manufactured where? Have you ever taken a holiday abroad? Do you always fly with British Airways? I am being unpatriotic by refusing to buy the heaps thrown together at Longbridge or Dagenham?

Whose need for investment is the greater? My Thai family or the country that was once a United Kingdom - now apparently run by cheats and embezzlers? I note that 'the workers' for want of a phrase, seem to be doing alright without my investment in them. 50 GBP or more for the privilege of watching a bunch of youngish men many with unpronounceable names from countries that the spectators couldn't point out on a map, kicking a ball, and often each other, around? How much do the spectators pay for a football shirt that I can buy in Pattaya Thai market for about 4 GBP? 40 GBP and upwards I understand. Who pays for the trips to Madrid, Milan, Barcelona or come to that Huddersfield. Dare I mention the cricket fans off to South Africa and Australia? I could or should invest in such a madhouse? Sorry, not me. It seems to me that too much money is sploshing around in the UK economy already and most of it where it doesn't do the country any good e.g. bank executives for starters.

Creating wealth and employment is not my bag. I leave that to the Government - and they're making a right mess of it. If they care to make investment opportunities attractive I might, or might not, consider moving some of my hard earned back on shore.

Quote "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." In a nut shell. the directions to Skid Row. Like many I feel that I have done enough for my country, and enough is enough.

[Tigs]

QUOTE (mommysboy @ 2010-03-05 12:27:44) You've missed the main point as have many, my argument is basically quite simple and uncontestable really: money that could and should be sploshing about the UK economy creating wealth and providing employment is not doing that as it is sploshing around in another country.

This is not about denying OAPs rightful benefits and treatment at all or condoning abusive behaviour.

mommysboy

You need to think about what you say before you write it down. By living out here, Bagwan (and also myself) are far less of a drain on the UK economy than if we were 'back home'. The value of spending a military or state pension back in the UK is almost nothing. You seem to be under the dilusion that the money would contribute to the national wealth and keep people in Jobs. Most of the service providers I would have in the Uk, take my hard earned cash and would then pay that in salaries to their workers in the call centers of India and the Phillipines. If I buy a shirt or a pair of trousers, they will have been purchased and made in China or Egypt or somewhere in Asia. Even banking, almost all functions of banking for HSBC are now run from India and Manilla. I cannot ring up my bank, my satalite provider, my mobile phone company, infact almost any service provider, I can rarely purchase an item of clothing that was made in the UK, and most things electrical would be sourced outside the UK also. The steel for use in cars etc has now had production moved to Asia, even the building of British military ships of war has been outsourced to the French. Even your local Council will be involved in investment schemes in organisations in other countries.

My one thousand pounds a month has no effect compared to the Billions that so called 'British Industry' outsource in order to improve profits. I have paid my due to UK society over thirty years and like Bagwan also put my neck on the line in GW1 and 2. In thirty years I have not had one day off work sick, not one day off with a hangover or just wanting to spend all day on the 'playstation' because I can't be arsed. I have never even been subsidised for a prescription medicine in my adult life, and despite all the taxes and national insurance contributions, the Government see it as an easy buck to penalise people like myself and Bagwan. And a pension is not free, although the current 'benifits youth' may think money actually grows on trees, it doesn't, it was a monthly contribution from myself and my employer, so I can choose to spend my money where I want. Would you like to ban all UK citizens from having holidays abroad because they should spend their money in the UK? British Industry chooses to spend it's money in Asia, well so do I, so just what is the problem?

To use your quote from above, yes your argument is VERY simple and it is completely contestable. if you wish to have your money 'sploshing' about the UK economy, then feel free, but be aware that about 60% of your money will be sent outside the UK economy to any other country but the UK.

You are wrong mommysboy, my argument concerning that is basically quite simple and uncontestable really.

[mommysboy]

I am one who can appreciate Bagwan's post. I too served my country (US) and paid into the Social Security system my entire working life. I am now collecting my benefits. I have been accused of taking money that is considered to be some sort of welfare. I really do resent people who think that way and can only think that they are simply jealous. I paid my dues and deserve some return.

Try reading you fool!!! I for one simply said that I did not have sympathy for someone who then spent that money abroad and thus acted as a drain on the economy. People like you are attacked because of your naivety, not because you have your benefits.

I'm intrigued as to why you have no sympathy for pensioners who spend THEIR money as they want and see fit?

Do you agree with tourism? Tourists could also be seen as a drain on their home economy because they are spending abroad.

Because it's money that was designed to be spent creating wealth in UK and not going out the country in such a marked and permanent manner. Tourism is just temporary. OAPs (we'll all get there) cost a heck of a lot of money on the health service. No doubt when the time comes Bagwan and others will head off home when they become sick and unable to cope. I for one hope they receive free medical attention in Blighty and live out the remaining years in health and comfort. But all this costs money, and this is another strand- people simply think we can carry on as before- no way.

[mommysboy]

Tigs- bravo! ok now tell me black is white.

Your 1000 a month is an absolute drain on the UK economy.

[Chaimai]

Because it's money that was designed to be spent creating wealth in UK and not going out the country in such a marked and permanent manner.

The last time I looked the freedoms gained, partly through being on the side of 'right' in 2 World Wars, allowed ME to spend MY money wherever I choose.

[mommysboy]

Because it's money that was designed to be spent creating wealth in UK and not going out the country in such a marked and permanent manner.

The last time I looked the freedoms gained, partly through being on the side of 'right' in 2 World Wars, allowed ME to spend MY money wherever I choose.

Oh shut up!, I won't report your post but I dare say others might.

Yes spend your money where you want just be aware that it aint doing Blighty any good that's for sure. Your choice as you say.

[Spee]

Ummm ..... excuse me .... I take great offense with this statement. .

Calm down, why on earth should you take great offense, or as we Brits say great offence, receiving a retirement pension is actually entitlement in the UK and something you pay for during your whole working life. Brits have to pay a percentage of their salary into a National Insurance fund to pay for health and other benefits and to entitle you to a pension following your retirement.

You misinterpreted me, Git. I was saying the same thing you are. We pay into the pension so getting our money back is not an entitlement, but rather completion of a contract, not an entitlement program like other government entitlement programs like welfare (aka being on the dole). Of course we know this has become just a ruse and the only way to governments are going to stay afloat is to <deleted> people out of their money. I've been paying $15k USD per year for as long as I can remember. I'll be lucky to see a penny of it, much less any compounded interest and cost of living increases. So yes, I did take great offense at the one guy's statement.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Spee