So You Have Lived Here A While, Is Thailand Still The Land Of Smiles ?

[ExpatJ]

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

Go to a typical farang bar in Singapore (incl orchard towers) or hong Kong on a friday night and then compare the type of farang there with those in a typical farang bar in bangkok- marvel at the difference...

[carmine]

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

Go to a typical farang bar in Singapore (incl orchard towers) or hong Kong on a friday night and then compare the type of farang there with those in a typical farang bar in bangkok- marvel at the difference...

Really.......

[stiggy]

After many years here working all over the country. Id say yes Thais overall do smile more.

Was on the london underground last November, a tube full of lifeless fearfull people unable to even muster eye contact.

[ExpatJ]

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

Go to a typical farang bar in Singapore (incl orchard towers) or hong Kong on a friday night and then compare the type of farang there with those in a typical farang bar in bangkok- marvel at the difference...

Really.......

Well to be fair..your typical farang in Hk or Singapore will likely be on a nice expat package and hot girls showing plenty of interest and they couldnt care less about prices or dual pricing or even about being scammed over a few quid on a bar bill etc.Of course these guys are going to be pretty content and show no resentment to the local people.. hence less tension both ways...

[bkkjames]

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

Go to a typical farang bar in Singapore (incl orchard towers) or hong Kong on a friday night and then compare the type of farang there with those in a typical farang bar in bangkok- marvel at the difference...

Really.......

Well to be fair..your typical farang in Hk or Singapore will likely be on a nice expat package and hot girls showing plenty of interest and they couldnt care less about prices or dual pricing or even about being scammed over a few quid on a bar bill etc.Of course these guys are going to be pretty content and show no resentment to the local people.. hence less tension both ways...

Are these the sames guys with their big collars, Jamie Oliver hair cuts that hang out in Orchard Tower or equiv in HK cause the local Chinese gals think they can't meet their five C's criteria?

[Oneman]

when I started to see past the tourist trail, was how indifferent the thais are towards us. ... they simply do not care whether we exist or whether we don't. It's like being a ghost.

Good observation, but wrong conclusion, and we can learn something from that.

What you are seeing is not indifference.

It is a combination of extreme politeness, extreme shyness, and huge difference in social class level.

Low class Thais make great effort to avoid annoying anyone higher in social class.

And farangs -- no matter how rude or slovenly - are considered better.

Plus, most low class Thais can't speak any English/German/Dutch/Swedish, etc.

So, they will avoid all contact with the foreigner, rather than risk a highly embarrassing lost of face on either side.

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

...So am I, but please remember the huge social value here on keeping "face".

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us, most of us, especially the sort that "ExpatJ" describes.

And there are so many like that here.

The explanation for Thai friendliness comes from keeping "face".

The most common way to keep face is to deny unpleasant facts.

It is an unpleasant fact that Thailand has attracted, and has allowed in, huge numbers of low-life, riff-raff, foreigners.

That is a massive loss of face to the nation.

The friendliness we see is a great effort to deny that.

...It took years of hard work for me learn Thai language beyond just saying hello and ordering food.

But now that I can actually talk with Thais, many seem eager to tell me their feelings.

Thai culture does not allow for much discussion of personal feelings, so many Thais are eager to "unload" on me.

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

It is highly embarrassing to Thais that they need our money, and that they have come to depend on our money.

So, what do Thais do in embarrassing situations?

They smile and act friendly.

...I do not make for myself any illusions.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Oneman

[Oneman]

I would never want to live in the big city. I did that for 5 years or so in Bangkok ... Last year I was in 7/11 and bought some stuff then went off to the bank 100 metres away and a you girl ran after me and gave me back a 500 baht note that I dropped and hadn't realised. ... Would this have happened in the city?

Actually, yes.

Four years in Bangkok and similar happened to me many times there.

Now in Chiangmai -- a small city with "big city attitude" -- and I experience gentle acts of kindness on almost a daily basis.

My conclusion from these experiences is this:

The smiles may not always be "genuine", but the Thai value of maintaining and promoting social harmony is genuine.

So I'll be staying in Thailand ... in a city.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Oneman

[PattayaParent]

Isn't there a Buddhist saying along the lines of

"The smile that you send out is returned to you"

[Ulysses G.]

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us, most of us...

I always find it interesting how many posters who claim to speak Thai get all kinds of inside information about the "real" Thailand that absolutely no one else is privy to. I have been here a long time and speak to Thais, in Thai, on a fairly regular basis - as well as in English - and none of them have shared their absolute distain for farangs with me. In fact they have been remarkably consistant and sensible about separating the good apples from the bad. That is one of the things that I respect about them.

In general, they do tend to want to agree with people's opinions that they are talking with. Could it be that one just has to ask if they "hate us all" in exactly the right way?

[manjara]

My wife tells me all the time that she hates farang! That they are stupid and fat and ugly!

When I burst into tears, she apologizes and smiles...

It's ok, she was just kidding!

Generally, I find the Thais (after 7 years in Thailand, being almost exclusively with Thais - the last farang I spoke to in Thailand left for NZ 3 years ago!) I would say that they do have a fairly low opinion of farang in general, but are not in any way racist about it.

My daughter was in the car a year or two ago and shouted 'look, Daddy, a farang!'. She didn't associate me with the term and I think the thais are often the same; they will talk about farang this and that, but often to another farang (if they understand). In that sense, it is more of a type rather than a 'race'.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

So are you comparing LOS with the way it used to be or with other countries. I for one find it to be one of the friendliest if not the friendliest country I am aware of. Here you can smile at a small girl and the mother in turn gives you a big smile. In the US or Australia you do that and they look at you like you are a pedophile. It is very rare that a Thai does not return my smile, and it has nothing to do with them receiving some financial advantage for it.

Been here full time for 3.5 Years and still love it. Don't see that changing any time soon.

[Ijustwannateach]

The type of foreigner who claims that all Thais hate or despise or look down on us, is usually the type who hasn't gotten away from the tourist scene or the types who are on the tourist scene.

[Maizefarmer]

QUOTE (Oneman @ 2010-03-04 15:13:54) *

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us, most of us...

Oh - what absolute rubbish............

[twschw]

This thread reminds me of a song.

[ballpoint]

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us, most of us...

I always find it interesting how many posters who claim to speak Thai get all kinds of inside information about the "real" Thailand that absolutely no one else is privy to. I have been here a long time and speak to Thais, in Thai, on a fairly regular basis - as well as in English - and none of them have shared their absolute distain for farangs with me. In fact they have been remarkably consistant and sensible about separating the good apples from the bad. That is one of the things that I respect about them.

In general, they do tend to want to agree with people's opinions that they are talking with. Could it be that one just has to ask if they "hate us all" in exactly the right way?

My god, I agree with you! Maybe I will take a look at that bridge you have for sale, I need something to put across my fishpond. I find that Thais I talk with in their own language will occasionally bitch about the way some farangs act and behave. They'll also occasionally bitch about the way some Thais act and behave. My farang friends will occasionally bitch about the way some farangs act and behave, and occasionally bitch about the way some Thais act and behave. All part of being human.

And to Oneman. What is it to be? Do they despise us all, or do they despise most of us? I also didn't realise there are different levels of despising. I despise all of most of you, and I especially despise some of most of all of you!

Edited March 4, 2010 by ballpoint

[Loz]

...Another way to observe this is to watch Thais with other Thais when no farangs are around. Recently I found myself at Morchit bus station with a few hours to wait. I found a quiet place almost hidden behind a pillar, and just settled in. It was the perfect location to watch Thais with each other, when the others are strangers, not friends or family. There are no smiles. The faces are universally bland; no expression.

Find me a big-city bus station any where in the world where people smile, and I'll find you a sign on the edge of town that reads "Entering Heaven (Utopia, Nervana, etc.)"

Find me a bus station in just about any small-to-medium sized town in Thailand, and your face muscles will fatigue trying to return all the smiles. Not only returning smiles, but watching Thais smile at each other.

Don't judge Thailand by Morchit.

Equivalent: "No one smiled at Grand Central Station in Manhattan. Therefore, all Americans are bland, expressionless and cold."

How ridiculous.

finally a kindred spirit!! I've been saying that for years!

[neverdie]

The type of foreigner who claims that all Thais hate or despise or look down on us, is usually the type who hasn't gotten away from the tourist scene or the types who are on the tourist scene.

My thoughts exactly. Some of these people can actually remain in 'tourist Thailand' for years without actually realising it

[Loz]

when I started to see past the tourist trail, was how indifferent the thais are towards us. ... they simply do not care whether we exist or whether we don't. It's like being a ghost.

Good observation, but wrong conclusion, and we can learn something from that.

What you are seeing is not indifference.

It is a combination of extreme politeness, extreme shyness, and huge difference in social class level.

Low class Thais make great effort to avoid annoying anyone higher in social class.

And farangs -- no matter how rude or slovenly - are considered better.

Plus, most low class Thais can't speak any English/German/Dutch/Swedish, etc.

So, they will avoid all contact with the foreigner, rather than risk a highly embarrassing lost of face on either side.

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

...So am I, but please remember the huge social value here on keeping "face".

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us, most of us, especially the sort that "ExpatJ" describes.

And there are so many like that here.

The explanation for Thai friendliness comes from keeping "face".

The most common way to keep face is to deny unpleasant facts.

It is an unpleasant fact that Thailand has attracted, and has allowed in, huge numbers of low-life, riff-raff, foreigners.

That is a massive loss of face to the nation.

The friendliness we see is a great effort to deny that.

...It took years of hard work for me learn Thai language beyond just saying hello and ordering food.

But now that I can actually talk with Thais, many seem eager to tell me their feelings.

Thai culture does not allow for much discussion of personal feelings, so many Thais are eager to "unload" on me.

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

It is highly embarrassing to Thais that they need our money, and that they have come to depend on our money.

So, what do Thais do in embarrassing situations?

They smile and act friendly.

...I do not make for myself any illusions.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

THIS POST IS GOLDEN!

Maybe its the champers talking.. but I have to say I have a similar experience. Of course some people (usually from a certain country) will say I'm talking out of my hat. Nothing is more pitiful than one who confuses his oppinion with fact...except maybe the accent they do it with..

[Jingthing]

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us ...

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

The best case I have ever heard for NOT learning Thai!

[ballpoint]

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us ...

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

The best case I have ever heard for NOT learning Thai!

Or you could learn it and find out for yourself that Oneman is talking a load of <deleted>.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us ...

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

The best case I have ever heard for NOT learning Thai!

Or you could learn it and find out for yourself that Oneman is talking a load of <deleted>.

Indeed.

I'm not surprised however (relieved, perhaps) to learn that JT never learned Thai. Means I better understand where he obtains his information, and which perspectives are absent.

[F1fanatic]

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us ...

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

The best case I have ever heard for NOT learning Thai!

Or you could learn it and find out for yourself that Oneman is talking a load of <deleted>.

Indeed.

I'm not surprised however (relieved, perhaps) to learn that JT never learned Thai. Means I better understand where he obtains his information, and which perspectives are absent.

Or then again some people are living in cloud cuckoo land. If you honestly believe that most Thais don't see farangs as inferior (other than as cash cows) then good for you. May you live in that dream forever.

Yes, once they get to know you they may accept you - but generally, they see us as a source of income and not someone who is equal to them.

[cognos]

..first thing every morning, and last thing every night, my (thai/chinese) wife gives me a great big smile...so L.O.S. ( "lots" of smiles ) works for me to a T (hailand)..

signed: your perception is your reality is your bias is your life

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Or then again some people are living in cloud cuckoo land. If you honestly believe that most Thais don't see farangs as inferior (other than as cash cows) then good for you. May you live in that dream forever.

Yes, once they get to know you they may accept you - but generally, they see us as a source of income and not someone who is equal to them.

^

Come on, get back to Walking Street.

Been here 15 years, long enough to learn pretty fluent Thai, and work in an office with 80 or so Thais. I also enjoy spending time more at the lower end of society. There isn't a single issue in the world where I would refer to all Thais as 'they' or 'them' and then make some sort of statement that applies to all of them. They're all individuals, no different from you and me.

Edited March 4, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[F1fanatic]

..first thing every morning, and last thing every night, my (thai/chinese) wife gives me a great big smile...so L.O.S. ( "lots" of smiles ) works for me to a T (hailand)..

signed: your perception is your reality is your bias is your life

Absolutely. As I said before some are living in 'cloud cuckoo' land.

Why did you need to point out that your wife is thai/chinese? All TV posters are married to Thai/Chinese women. V few are with Isaan women.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Agree with you on that one. It's somewhat charming though, to see people to point out the make, model, serial number and pedigree of their Thai partners at every opportunity.

My (Thai/Muang/home & business owner/BSc/MBA/1.68m/v2.0) wife just scowls at me for spending too much time on the computer.

Edited March 4, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Neeranam]

Ok so people come here for 2 or 3 weeks on holiday some come for longer. They stay in nice hotels and eat at the nice resturants. They say the people in Thailand are so friendly and always smiling. Yes they are right becuase this is what they see from there 2 or 3 weeks here. The thai people they meet in the hotels and resturants, lets not forget are paid to smile and be friendly. Like any other country in the world where people work in these jobs.

What i dont get is people who have lived here a couple of years keep calling it the land of smiles. I have been here a good while myself and i know what the real thailand is like. People here in general are no more friendly ( i think they are less friendly towards farangs ) than in most other countrys i have been. So why do people who have lived here a long time just fail to see what the real thailand is like. For us farangs who can speak thai and understand we no deep down that the ' land of smiles ' is just a myth. Farangs are never far away from racism of some sort or being ripped off . So how is this the land of smiles ? I like to think it is the land of fake smiles. Is it people who have lived here a long time no deep down that thailand is not what they thought it would be, but they just try to block it out and convince themselfs that thai people are really friendly, when they no its not ture. One thing i will say is that thailand is less violent than most western countrys. But as for being a friendly place its just a myth, that some farang's wont give up on no matter how many times racism is directed at them or how many times they get ripped off and charged double the price thais get charged .

So is this really the land of smiles ???

I think you are a stage that I have been through - happened to me after about 5 years living here. It had a lot to do with learning the language and still hanging out a bit in touristy areas, hearing all the negative stuff. I had a choice - to accept the negatives of Thailand and enjoy the positives or go insane trying to change Thai culture and having a shitty attitude. Acceptance was the key, which changed my attitude and made me smile more at the Thais which they nearly always reciprocate. You will change and Thais will see this change in your attitude/body language and you'll change your mind about the Thai people. It really is the land of smiles - you'll get to know what all the different smiles mean and find you are smiling all the time whther it be a contented smile or a pissed off smile.

[Neeranam]

..first thing every morning, and last thing every night, my (thai/chinese) wife gives me a great big smile...so L.O.S. ( "lots" of smiles ) works for me to a T (hailand)..

signed: your perception is your reality is your bias is your life

Absolutely. As I said before some are living in 'cloud cuckoo' land.

Why did you need to point out that your wife is thai/chinese? All TV posters are married to Thai/Chinese women. V few are with Isan women.

What about Isarn/Chinese - there's a lot of them.

What's wrong with Isaan women?

Issarn women are Thai.

[Maizefarmer]

The type of foreigner who claims that all Thais hate or despise or look down on us, is usually the type who hasn't gotten away from the tourist scene or the types who are on the tourist scene.

My thoughts exactly. Some of these people can actually remain in 'tourist Thailand' for years without actually realising it

..... more than a kernel of truth in that statement: given how some ex-pats (and other ethnic group foreigners) behave when they come out here on holiday (in ways they don't back home - hence the regular Thai break), can we blame those locals that do take issue with foreigners?

If anything, the locals are pretty tolerent towards visitors.

[andyww]

The fact is, the "Thai Smile" is most prevalent when a Thai person encounters a Farang who is a stranger. Its purely cultural and nothing to do with smiling because they see money coming their way.

When Thai people smile less when you speak to them in Thai thats because you are behaving more like a Thai. Thai people do not go around smiling all the time to other Thais.

Its true that Thai people despise many Farangs but thats no surprise at all especially in some places such as Pattaya, I mean just look at them...

But its complete nonsense to say that Thais universally despise Farangs. Anyone who believes this should try changing their behaviour, stop being confrontational, act with a slight deference, and generally be polite and well-dressed (unlike the average farang tourist) and you will be treated as an equal. You will not be smiled at all the time though but thats not relevant.