Proof Of Income

[GeorgeO]

Hi all,

I have just been to Samut Prakhan office to apply for the renewal of my extension of stay based upon the combination method, and was duly refused on the grounds that the money in the bank here was not sufficiently "seasoned".

I was able to show over GBP12,000 per year in pension and THB 450,000 in a new Bangkok Bank account which I opened about six weeks ago using funds brought in from overseas. The Immigration Officer said the money would have to be in for 3 months to qualify; I said I thought he had misunderstood and that this particular rule only applied to the THB 800,000 approach.

All he was prepared to "give" me was a seven-day extension of my current extension of stay to 12 March 2010 ... for THB1,900.

1. Am I correct in stating the above, which would mean that he has made the wrong decision?

2. If so, is there any chance that a visit to the main Chaeng Wattana office might help to resolve the problem?

3. If all else fails, should I fly to Penang (or elsewhere) and apply for a non-imm-O on the basis of waiting for funds to "season", and would they issue one on that basis?

All helpful suggestions would be very much appreciated

GeorgeO

[GeorgeO]

In case anyone asks, yes I did provide them with a letter from the British Embassy supporting all income.

[Jingthing]

The national rule on this is that if you use the combo method, the money does NOT have to be seasoned. However, and sadly for you, yours is not the first report of some offices deviating from the general rule.

[toptuan]

So just to be safe, deposit ALL funds three months in advance...just to cover some incompetent immigration clerk's ignorance?

[Jingthing]

I don't think people in most offices need to be that paranoid. It seems this weirdness tends to happen in a few outlying offices. Maybe we need a sticky thread to keep track of this issue for the specific offices which are not following the national rule.

[GeorgeO]

I'm aware that trying to prove to an Immigration Officer that he has made the wrong decision may have knock-on effects later on!

Can anyone answer my third point. If I fly somewhere outside of Thailand, will I be able to get a Non-Imm-O based upon my imminent submission of an application for "extension of stay based upon retirement", and if so, where would you recommend?

Many thanks.

GeorgeO

[Jingthing]

Good question. I think you can get a new O in Malaysia (not sure about Laos) just being over 50 and stating you will be applying for a retirement extension. I would bring along financial info but reports have been it isn't needed. I am not sure I would complicate the situation by talking about pending applications in Thailand. Hopefully, others will comment on this so you can make a more informed decision.

[GeorgeO]

Good question. I think you can get a new O in Malaysia (not sure about Laos) just being over 50 and stating you will be applying for a retirement extension. I would bring along financial info but reports have been it isn't needed. I am not sure I would complicate the situation by talking about pending applications in Thailand. Hopefully, others will comment on this so you can make a more informed decision.

Thanks Jingthing.

I guess if that fails, I can simply apply for a 60-day tourist visa and then have it changed to a Non-Imm(O) back here in Thailand. Problem is I would still be relying on the same Immigration Office.

I just kinda wish there was some way I could go back there and convince the guy of the correct interpretation of the rule.

[Jingthing]

Not all immigration offices will do a change of status from tourist or 30 day stamp to O. If yours will, you must have at least 21 days left on the tourist visa or 30 day stamp to apply for the change of status. I think you will be able to get a single entry O so hopefully this won't be an issue.

[WarpSpeed]

I was at Immigration yesterday (Bangkok) and they have a specific line now for attending to "improperly stamped" Visa's in the 90 day report room so that might be an option for you to get a more accurate review, Bangkok is the base so their say is rule.. Personally I would begin there and once you've had it corrected you should not have another recurrence if it happens then you have the proof with you to make an immediate correction with and enforce your case..

At any rate you'd also find out if you are being squeezed for tea money or just dealing with an incompetent officer and how to handle it in the future without them really knowing until your next report in which they might not even remember you..

[GeorgeO]

I was at Immigration yesterday (Bangkok) and they have a specific line now for attending to "improperly stamped" Visa's in the 90 day report room so that might be an option for you to get a more accurate review, Bangkok is the base so their say is rule.. Personally I would begin there and once you've had it corrected you should not have another recurrence if it happens then you have the proof with you to make an immediate correction with and enforce your case..

At any rate you'd also find out if you are being squeezed for tea money or just dealing with an incompetent officer and how to handle it in the future without them really knowing until your next report in which they might not even remember you..

Hi Warpspeed,

This was one of the questions I raised initially, and was hoping for a positive response.

I am thinking of going there to try to sort this out tomorrow; I assume your reference to the Bangkok office is the new Chaeng Wattana

building(?) I have never been there, so would appreciate help in how to get there by car.

Many thanks.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

George

Here's the rule, Article 7.21(5), below.

National Police Office Order

No. 606/2006

Subject : Criteria and Conditions in Permitting alien/foreigner

to temporarily entering into the Kingdom

7.21 Retirement

Each time of permission

shall be granted for a

period not exceeding 1

year.

(1) Foreigner shall obtains VISA for

temporary stay and,

(2) Shall not be younger than 50

years old and,

(3) Having evidence showing the

monthly income not less than

65,000 Baht or,

(4) Having the records of saving

money in the latest 3 months of

account book of any Bank in

Thailand not less than 800,000

Baht or,

(5) Having annual income

combined with the saving

money in the Bank not less than

800,000 Baht from on the date

submitting the application.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Up in the pinned section you should be able to find, download, and print out the same police order in Thai.

I'd take it back to the Samut Immigration office, perhaps even find the same officer, and very very politely point out that it says nothing about three months seasoning, not like Article (4) just proceeding.

You might just get lucky and find that he didn't know that, or he might just say no, again.

Mac

[lopburi3]

The current rules are in police order 777/2551 - that quote from Immigration web site is out of date.

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Above is the unofficial translation of section 2.22 para 5 and clearly makes no mention of time season of money (para 4 does for the 800k in bank account method). So perhaps if you can have him review the Thai language of Police order 777/2551 section 2.22 para 5 you might have a chance.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes Cheang Wattana.. I'll do my best to help it is not too difficult but right now the road is under construction so it is painfully slow going it is in the government complex...

Do you know how to get to Cheang Wattana at all? I'm not real good with directions it terms of locations origins, the provinces etc. so best thing for you to do is head towards the old Don Muang airport direction will you be coming from the north or the south? East or west?

[GeorgeO]

Yes Cheang Wattana.. I'll do my best to help it is not too difficult but right now the road is under construction so it is painfully slow going it is in the government complex...

Do you know how to get to Cheang Wattana at all? I'm not real good with directions it terms of locations origins, the provinces etc. so best thing for you to do is head towards the old Don Muang airport direction will you be coming from the north or the south? East or west?

Warpspeed,

I play Bangkok Golf Club regularly, so I have no problems getting to Muang Thong Thani district on the Chaneg Wattana Highway.

Do I come off at Chaeng Wattana Road?

[WarpSpeed]

Personally I would not waste any more time with him I would have it corrected and have future evidence of correction made.. Fighting on your own is more likely to cause him loss of face and less likely to produce results for your future as well. The way I am suggesting will go by the wayside real soon and so no loss of face in front of his immediate coworkers or superiors..

[GeorgeO]

The current rules are in police order 777/2551 - that quote from Immigration web site is out of date.

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Above is the unofficial translation of section 2.22 para 5 and clearly makes no mention of time season of money (para 4 does for the 800k in bank account method). So perhaps if you can have him review the Thai language of Police order 777/2551 section 2.22 para 5 you might have a chance.

Can you direct me to the source of the latest rule so that I can print it out and take it back to Samut Prakhan office?

[GeorgeO]

Personally I would not waste any more time with him I would have it corrected and have future evidence of correction made.. Fighting on your own is more likely to cause him loss of face and less likely to produce results for your future as well. The way I am suggesting will go by the wayside real soon and so no loss of face in front of his immediate coworkers or superiors..

I am inclined to agree with your assessment of the situation now, and in the future.

I have just had a good friend call me to discuss the problem and he has kindly offered me the support of his Thai Seretary for a proposed trip to the CW office tomorrow. I think that may be the best way to proceed.

[alfieconn]

George

Here's the rule, Article 7.21(5), below.

National Police Office Order

No. 606/2006

Subject : Criteria and Conditions in Permitting alien/foreigner

to temporarily entering into the Kingdom

7.21 Retirement

Each time of permission

shall be granted for a

period not exceeding 1

year.

(1) Foreigner shall obtains VISA for

temporary stay and,

(2) Shall not be younger than 50

years old and,

(3) Having evidence showing the

monthly income not less than

65,000 Baht or,

(4) Having the records of saving

money in the latest 3 months of

account book of any Bank in

Thailand not less than 800,000

Baht or,

(5) Having annual income

combined with the saving

money in the Bank not less than

800,000 Baht from on the date

submitting the application.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Up in the pinned section you should be able to find, download, and print out the same police order in Thai.

I'd take it back to the Samut Immigration office, perhaps even find the same officer, and very very politely point out that it says nothing about three months seasoning, not like Article (4) just proceeding.

You might just get lucky and find that he didn't know that, or he might just say no, again.

Mac

Surely if your showing money in the bank then it has too be for 3 mths, otherwise people could go with having 790t in the bank and a small monthly income and get round the 3months rule in this way

[FarangBuddha]

In Penang you should be able to obain a non-immigrant visa for the purpose of retirement in Thailand (regardless of the fact that you have applied for one and been rejected already. That will give you a 90-day entry and a couple weeks before this expires, get the retirement-extension going at the immigration office. By then, the money will be seasoned and you should sail through.

Can anyone answer my third point. If I fly somewhere outside of Thailand, will I be able to get a Non-Imm-O based upon my imminent submission of an application for "extension of stay based upon retirement", and if so, where would you recommend?

[GeorgeO]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I am planning to correct this matter at the CW Office tomorrow and will post to let everyone know of the outcome.

Could still use a little advice on how to get there from the Chaeng Wattana expressway.

Many thanks again

[lopburi3]

The current rules are in police order 777/2551 - that quote from Immigration web site is out of date.

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Above is the unofficial translation of section 2.22 para 5 and clearly makes no mention of time season of money (para 4 does for the 800k in bank account method). So perhaps if you can have him review the Thai language of Police order 777/2551 section 2.22 para 5 you might have a chance.

Can you direct me to the source of the latest rule so that I can print it out and take it back to Samut Prakhan office?

Thai

English

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, if you are coming from that direction but you are on the wrong side of the road and requires a U turn at some point, not coming from that direction myself I'm not sure how far up though well past the Tesco so you can use over passes prior to that, but watch for the over passes they will take you past you're destination possibly so stay left or you'll miss what you're looking for and a U turn to get to it.. Actually as I remember you should be able to use the over pass before the Tesco and then the next will be just past a Big C. but it is down to one lane depending on what time of day it is so best to stay left and go past it and then merge right immediately afterwords and I believe that will set you up for your U turn back to the entrance..If not then best to come from the Viphavadi direction if possible? Either way what you need to be looking for is a very wide and prominent entrance (four lanes) into the government complex on your right from Muang Thong Thani direction and on your left from Viphavadi direction.

Once there turn left and then drive all the way to the last building on the right, there are several buildings there that look similar, it looks somewhat like an inverted pyramid. find a parking space and go inside and it is back on the left hand corner on the ground floor, there is a parking level though so don't get confused..Anyway there is enough people there to ask directions once inside..

Be advised they are closed during lunch from 12:00 to 1:00, you can get in the main building and even eat lunch there but not into immigration proper and a queue will form up pretty quickly during the lunch hour..

Hope that helps, good luck...

*edit* My reply function doesn't work so I'm sending this in response to your post#18...

I would bring the info noted with you for the Bangkok office in case but let the other die a painless death...

[lopburi3]

Exit toward Laksi and make U-turn just after CAT. Heading West take 6 lane Soi 7 immediate after CAT to end. Immigration is in the South-East corner of 1st floor (entry floor) of huge building on right. There is covered parking behind building and in center of soi.

[Jingthing]

Surely if your showing money in the bank then it has too be for 3 mths, otherwise people could go with having 790t in the bank and a small monthly income and get round the 3months rule in this way

Not exactly. The GENERAL rule which is applied nationally for the most part is if using the combo method, any amount of income from embassy letter PLUS any amount of banked money means the banked money is excluded from money seasoning requirements. However, you bring up an interesting issue I have been asking for years now with no good answer. If you went to a "normal" office that accepts combo applications without money seasoning and present an embassy letter showing a very small amount of income, for example 30K baht plus an unseasoned bank account, would they then still approve it? According the national rule, there is no minimum amount of income stated for using this method, so technically they should still approve it. However, there hasn't been much in the way of reports of people trying that, so the long standing question remains open.

[Hobc]

George,

Not sure about Penang, Perth Western Aus very good you just need a letter from Thai GF stating your intention to visit with a copy of Thai ID card, your bank statments, and $230 for an non imm O, offices open 9am 2pm tuesday and thursday, usually go early pick up visa 11am. To get a month now fly Air asia KL 1 day turn around from Phuket.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

The current rules are in police order 777/2551 - that quote from Immigration web site is out of date.

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Above is the unofficial translation of section 2.22 para 5 and clearly makes no mention of time season of money (para 4 does for the 800k in bank account method). So perhaps if you can have him review the Thai language of Police order 777/2551 section 2.22 para 5 you might have a chance.

Can you direct me to the source of the latest rule so that I can print it out and take it back to Samut Prakhan office?

Attached.

Mac

Police_order_777_2551_TH.pdf

[Jingthing]

George,

Not sure about Penang, Perth Western Aus very good you just need a letter from Thai GF stating your intention to visit with a copy of Thai ID card, your bank statments, and $230 for an non imm O, offices open 9am 2pm tuesday and thursday, usually go early pick up visa 11am. To get a month now fly Air asia KL 1 day turn around from Phuket.

That's interesting info for some people, but I feel irrelevant to the OP. He is over 50 in the retirement category and there is no need to go as far as Perth to get a single entry O for such applicants. Nor will he need a Thai's input to his application.

[lopburi3]

Resolved and extension of stay issued. Per below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Proof-Income-t344699.html