Massive Failure For The Red Rally

[ballpoint]

There really is something pathetic about the way the red supporters, seeing how poorly their protest is drawing numbers, jump on here firstly to "spin" it "the million man march doesn't mean there will be a million people", "the rally that was called for the 12th will really take place on the 14th", and then to do the usual thread hijacking and diversion onto other topics. Some of the lies posted in that vein would be laughable if not for the fact that these are supposedly educated people posting them. It shows how Thaksin all too easily fooled, and continues to fool, many of the poorly educated. We've had "Abhisit never leaves Bangkok" - he has visited a number of Isaan provinces, including Ubon, Buri Ram, Korat, and would no doubt visit more if not for the threats of violence upon him and his supporters if he were to do so. The fact that many of these same posters seem proud of the fact that he can't freely travel the country for fear of endangering his supporters in those regions speaks volumes about their true thoughts on democracy, not to mention their state of mind. We've had variants on "Abhisit has done nothing for the country", despite the government bringing Thailand through the worst of the global recession, and its finance minister winning an international award. A major achievement considering the number of posters who were predicting the government's demise just over a year ago. We've had some vague, unclear, references to numbers of teachers, and a poster successfully countered those. Just when will the red propaganda spreaders realise firstly this is all off topic, secondly it's all lies, and thirdly you can't fool us as you would the less educated members of the population?

[scorecard]

A lot of red shirt threads, so i guess this one is as soon as any to ask policy questions.

Is it true that the current government is doing away with the 30Baht medical program?

They are not 'doing away' with the program, they are making it totally free. Already announced some weeks ago.

[Moonrakers]

They are not protesting because he is Abhisit, they are protesting because he is not Thaksin.

ANYBODY could be PM right now, but unless it is Thaksin NOBODY will be good enough

I think you will find they are protesting to overturn the current government,Thaksin admittedly is a figurehead for there cause right or wrong,if they were not funded then maybe they would stay home i do not know the answer to that,but lets not forget all political parties are funded one way or the other,but the point is they are going to Bangkok and are entitled to demonstrate against what they believe in.

With or without Thaksin they have the right to vote,if Thaksin disappears do you think it will all stop?

Ok so you think they need educating! by the clever people from Bangkok...Burma comes to mind?

A clean slate is what is needed.and a new leader for there party.

I don't think that anybody is arguing their right to demonstrate/vote, at least not on this thread.

And you have more or less agreed with my point. They are not protesting because he is Abhisit, they are protesting because he is not Thaksin.

[Slip]

Actually- if you check back to my earlier post, it seems that Nadtatida ignores you if you are right and have a salient point.

So far she has admitted that two of her original points were actually not defensible and I've given authentic rebuttal to the third.

Nadtatida?

Lol... how very observant of you! Where is your school? you give no info!

My replys are all there and are defensible,i have said what i honestly believe,sorry if i don't agree with you or the majority.

Thanks for presuming i am a lady

Not defensible in so far as you retracted them.

Where my school is is irrelevant.

Sorry for assuming you were a lady- I don't know why I did, but I did. Kaw Thot Khap.

[anotherpeter]

I think you will find they are protesting to overturn the current government,Thaksin admittedly is a figurehead for there cause right or wrong,if they were not funded then maybe they would stay home i do not know the answer to that,but lets not forget all political parties are funded one way or the other,but the point is they are going to Bangkok and are entitled to demonstrate against what they believe in.

With or without Thaksin they have the right to vote,if Thaksin disappears do you think it will all stop?

Ok so you think they need educating! by the clever people from Bangkok...Burma comes to mind?

A clean slate is what is needed.and a new leader for there party.

1) They have a right to vote. Why don't they wait a year for the election?

2) If Thaksin disappears, (with his cohorts), they would probably get a lot more support.

3) If Thaksin disappears, (with the local red shirt thugs), they would also find out what the government is doing, instead of listening to the red propaganda. Government propaganda maybe, but at the moment they don't get to hear it. Having heard both sides, they can then make a real democratic decision.

4) Education is a necessity. Reading, writing, maths, not politics - enough so they can find out information for themselves.

[scorecard]

Well ....i am sorry but he might be governing Bangkok and Surat Thani,but obviously he is not doing a good job in many parts of issan is he...or they would not be travelling down in there thousands to rally would they?

Maybe because they (probably not the poor themselves, but the thugs up there) don't allow the government to talk to the poor to explain what is being done. The poor only hear the Thaksin propaganda.

QUOTE FROM ABOVE: "The thugs up there don't allow the government to talk to the poor", also:

- In many provinces/villages the local population is told (read ordered) to join the rally, and they are too frightened to object or refuse.

This is what the UDD calls democracy!

Edited March 12, 2010 by scorecard

[blackman]

It really does amaze me how many people have blinkers on here,most of you actually think that Abhisit is for the good of Thailand when in fact he never ventures anywhere outside of Bangkok.

I would like some present facts on policys that are going to benefit Thai people....can anyone give me some? ?

i believe Abhisit recently approved a bill to give 1 million baht to each of the 1100 village heads in Thailand for them to spend on welfare and education in their own community

i believe that elderly Thai citizens over 70 years of age now get a 500baht a month social fund payout

the 30 baht card hospital plan has been extended NOT terminated so that more people qualify for free care and more hospitals are now taking part

the fee for participants is now 0 baht

water and electric are provided free for low volume users

he instigated economic stimulus packages with millions of 2000 baht cheques handed out to qualifying people

free education for children from low income families along with free books, uniforms, shoes.

free computers for schools.

injected more funds in the education system to recruit more teachers and pay for better qualified teachers to teach in public schools

low interest government loans to help families in the grasp of loan sharks

grants are available to low income families to help extend their childrens education to a higher level.

Edited March 12, 2010 by blackman

[Bagwan]

I feel bad for the rural poor. It is way past time they found some social revolution, but they have been conned into riding the Thaksin train because there is no confidence orr understanding that they can do it on their own. Truth is, they have the majority, they can forge their own destiny, but it will never work with Thaksin dragging them down. They really need to find a statesmen from their own ranks and come up with a constitution which represents the majority. Then they need to take it to the polls. It would really help if they would run the vote buyers out of town on a rail too, but I can't see that happening.

I can't see that happening either. If anybody puts his head above the parapet the local phu yai will send the boys round to make him an offer that he can't refuse. No leader, no revolution, no evolution. It will take a Goliath to overturn the Thai mould that makes the Thai political scene so mouldy.

[Ulysses G.]

There really is something pathetic about the way the red supporters, seeing how poorly their protest is drawing numbers, jump on here firstly to "spin" it "the million man march doesn't mean there will be a million people",

The original Million Man March in Washington DC did not get anywhere close to a million men either, but it has gone down in history. Isn't it kind of a silly thing to split hairs about?

Edited March 12, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[TAWP]

There really is something pathetic about the way the red supporters, seeing how poorly their protest is drawing numbers, jump on here firstly to "spin" it "the million man march doesn't mean there will be a million people",

The original Million Man March in Washington DC did not get anywhere close to a million men either, but it has gone down in history. Isn't it kind of a silly thing to split hairs about?

10 000 vs 1 000 000 000...is splitting hairs?

Can I send you a bill, let's say it is for 100 baht, give or take the same ratio as above...?

[Ricardo]

Are you really connecting the bombs in the south with what is happening in Bangkok, the south is bombed on an almost daily basis. If some village head gets shot in pattani tonight will that also be blamed on the red shirts?

Tony, a quick glance at a map will show, Surat Thai is quite a long way from the southern-provinces, where the troubles are.

Did he not plan to visit Chiang Mai but had to cancel due to death threats from the oh so democratic reds? Ignore me if I am wrong.

Correct,you cannot govern any country under those circumstances.

It would also make it hard to hold a reasonably-fair election, wouldn't you agree, perhaps this is one reason why PM-Abhisit is reluctant to call one at the current time ?

[SeanMoran]

Are you really connecting the bombs in the south with what is happening in Bangkok, the south is bombed on an almost daily basis. If some village head gets shot in pattani tonight will that also be blamed on the red shirts?

Tony, a quick glance at a map will show, Surat Thai is quite a long way from the southern-provinces, where the troubles are.

Did he not plan to visit Chiang Mai but had to cancel due to death threats from the oh so democratic reds? Ignore me if I am wrong.

Correct,you cannot govern any country under those circumstances.

It would also make it hard to hold a reasonably-fair election, wouldn't you agree, perhaps this is one reason why PM-Abhisit is reluctant to call one at the current time ?

No doubt it might not be easy to hold an election he'd have any chance of winning.

[anotherpeter]

It would also make it hard to hold a reasonably-fair election, wouldn't you agree, perhaps this is one reason why PM-Abhisit is reluctant to call one at the current time ?

Why should he call an election?? Elections are due in 2011, 4 years after the last election, which is the normal scheduled time for the next election.

Edited March 12, 2010 by anotherpeter

[tooninthai]

the thing has not even started in earnest yet and the same old posters on here proving their tediousness, how about waiting for tomorrow and Sunday, then make a judgement call, after all the rally is tomorrow and not today, today is small gatherings.

I sometimes wonder what people hope to achieve with such nonsense as this thread, do they think it makes one iota of difference to the actual happenings? do they think abhisit is reading this forum and getting excited because some nomark says not many reds have turned up, or do you think he is concerned with the facts rather than the ramblings of some old fool on a farang forum.

No, it has not started yet

With it being a Friday today and many people still working it was not really expected to warm up yet.

But, I have seen a lot of coaches filled with red shirts late this afternoon and they are heading Bangkok way.

[Old Man River]

Still too early to call it a failure, I hope it will fizzle out, or if they do rally that they do it peacefully, no matter how many turn out. But I think we should for Sunday to see what the real situation is (this may still be just be an attempt to lure the government into a false sense of security)

The estimates from Bangkok were supposed to be north of 100,000. Clearly, it was much less than that, with Samut Prakan seeing the largest turnout with approx. 5,000. Supposedly, the original plan was that they would all meet up at Phan Fah bridge tonight, but instead they were told to go home and come back tomorrow.

I think you are right that it is too early to call it a complete failure. As the late great Yogi Berra once said, it ain't over until its over, but right now it ain't looking too good.

[gotlost]

Still too early to call it a failure, I hope it will fizzle out, or if they do rally that they do it peacefully, no matter how many turn out. But I think we should for Sunday to see what the real situation is (this may still be just be an attempt to lure the government into a false sense of security)

The estimates from Bangkok were supposed to be north of 100,000. Clearly, it was much less than that, with Samut Prakan seeing the largest turnout with approx. 5,000. Supposedly, the original plan was that they would all meet up at Phan Fah bridge tonight, but instead they were told to go home and come back tomorrow.

I think you are right that it is too early to call it a complete failure. As the late great Yogi Berra once said, it ain't over until its over, but right now it ain't looking too good.

Or It ain't over tell the fat lady sings, well she ain't singing yet buy I see her in the wing.

[Insight]

Electric/water granted.

Economic stimulas packages

Schools...ask how many teachers are getting there contracts renewed next semester...i think you will be surprised!

Maybe it was rash of me to say he never leaves Bangkok to visit the provinces....but i have not seen him visit issan? strange that isn't it.

He must like to go down south

Probably been mentioned a million times since your post, but he's been to Udon Thani where he was hounded by red shirt thugs, and wanted to go to Chiang Mai but was asked not to for the trouble that LCM51 were threatening. There's a large number of visits elsewhere around Thailand, not to mention the international state visits.

Quite a few of the TRT-side leaders had a bit of a fear about travelling around Thailand as far as I recall, including Mr Thaksin...

Suggest you research a bit before you post.

[oceano]

the thing has not even started in earnest yet and the same old posters on here proving their tediousness, how about waiting for tomorrow and Sunday, then make a judgement call, after all the rally is tomorrow and not today, today is small gatherings.

I sometimes wonder what people hope to achieve with such nonsense as this thread, do they think it makes one iota of difference to the actual happenings? do they think abhisit is reading this forum and getting excited because some nomark says not many reds have turned up, or do you think he is concerned with the facts rather than the ramblings of some old fool on a farang forum.

The reds would be crowing if today was impressive. That's a fact for you. Now they are humiliated.

Sorry im just courios....humiliated about what?

I remember last year, i was in the middle of red and soldier like a photographer and some days before someone say the same, nothings happens and they lose....cannot wait tomorrow?

Also all people coming from N. and NE tonight sleep in Nakhon Sawan and Nakhon Ratchasima...how you know how much they are????

At the end, you really think, also if they are 200.000, they cannot make trouble in Bangkok?

I think some of us dont learn from the past....and dont see few people, last time, give fire to a lot of bus meanwhile hundreds of soldiers try to stop them whit not fortune.

bye

Edited March 12, 2010 by oceano

[trigger571]

No such small numbers huh? Several thousands can be seen marching towards the City in this video

[commons]

the thing has not even started in earnest yet and the same old posters on here proving their tediousness, how about waiting for tomorrow and Sunday, then make a judgement call, after all the rally is tomorrow and not today, today is small gatherings.

I sometimes wonder what people hope to achieve with such nonsense as this thread, do they think it makes one iota of difference to the actual happenings? do they think abhisit is reading this forum and getting excited because some nomark says not many reds have turned up, or do you think he is concerned with the facts rather than the ramblings of some old fool on a farang forum.

The reds would be crowing if today was impressive. That's a fact for you. Now they are humiliated.

Sorry im just courios....humiliated about what?

I remember last year, i was in the middle of red and soldier like a photographer and some days before someone say the same, nothings happens and they lose....cannot wait tomorrow?

Also all people coming from N. and NE tonight sleep in Nakhon Sawan and Nakhon Ratchasima...how you know how much they are????

At the end, you really think, also if they are 200.000, they cannot make trouble in Bangkok?

I think some of us dont learn from the past....and dont see few people, last time, give fire to a lot of bus meanwhile hundreds of soldiers try to stop them whit not fortune.

bye

so am i supposed to read your post as anticipating "trouble in bkk", "red shirt trouble"... while i've heard way too many times the litanies for "peaceful transformation"? while i personally experienced violence and intimidation up north? and now again, it comes down to... _how many people can create "trouble in bkk"?_: thanks for insight into your mind.

for the soldiers...; as far as i can remember... , immediately after black sonngkhran there had been wide-spread accusations that hundreds, if not thousands had been massacred. i can remember "journalists" and "photographers" adding to that madness - what did come out of it?

and again, thanks for insight in your mind - so you prefer a mob running amok, setting buses on fire, threatening to blow up LPG-tanks, etc etc, to a stringent security operation to contain violence, protect law and civil society?

[duckleberry]

1,000,000 milllion people sounds impressive, but it would still be only 1.4% of the population (1/70th of the Thai population give or take).

How can they claim an authentic revolt if they can't mobilize one percent of their citizens. The world press should cover it as a failure and turn off the cameras.

WOT!!!!!!!!!!!

A trillion people sounds mighty impressive to me!

Get the pigs on the spits, guys...........crack open the sang som!

Is China aware of this new economic powerhouse on its doorstep?

Such an increase in the birthrate can only be blamed on retired expats, I guess!

Got to go.............time for my medication!

[IanForbes]

Such an increase in the birthrate can only be blamed on retired expats, I guess!

Got to go.............time for my medication!

I'm doing the best that I can, but it's hard to blast through those condoms the gals insist on.

[britmaveric]

red is very lucky colour!!!!

[Dodobird]

No such small numbers huh? Several thousands can be seen marching towards the City in this video

saw many red vest police on duty....

[hammered]

I think tomorrow they will have a very good turnout. It takes time to get the distant village people rolling. Obviously the BKK reds are either small in numbe ror scared of reprisal after Songkhran but in th eisaan and upper north they will have a lot and when they role into town those keeping their heads down furhter south will appear. All imho

This still has a long way to play. Hopefully it will be uneventful in temrs of violence

[Insight]

^ Latest update from The Nation posted by George says something similar to Hammered's post. The credibility of the reds might of took a beating today (IMHO) but if it's a numbers game...

[Ricardo]

Did he not plan to visit Chiang Mai but had to cancel due to death threats from the oh so democratic reds? Ignore me if I am wrong.

Correct,you cannot govern any country under those circumstances.

It would also make it hard to hold a reasonably-fair election, wouldn't you agree, perhaps this is one reason why PM-Abhisit is reluctant to call one at the current time ?

No doubt it might not be easy to hold an election he'd have any chance of winning.

Therein lies the problem.

One clear tactic of the Red-Shirt 'true democrats', as they currently stand, is to make it impossible to hold an election which might be won by Abhisit, across a significant part of the country, by denying him the chance to even campaign.

And I doubt very much that any Thai politicians would permit the sort of international monitoring, which might help the holding of a reasonably-fair election, indeed they have rejected calls for this in the past. (Pity)

But it will be important for the acceptance of the next election, whenever it comes, that it should be seen to be fair. And this would require the Reds to allow other parties to campaign in their heart-lands, and equally for them to be able to campaign down South, if they wish to. I don't currently see how this will be possible.

So one cannot blame PM-Abhisit for delaying things. Politics is the Art of the Possible, as I seem to recall once hearing ?

And a fair election is currently not possible.

Hopefully after a peaceful protest this week-end, with numbers perhaps well short of the stated objective of a million, the situation may change or progress ? Who knows !

[jdinasia]

From the Updates thread .... and says it all really .....

TAN Network:

Red protests going strong in front of 11th Infantry Regiment

Authorities estimate around 5,000-6,000 red-shirt protesters have joined the mass red shirt rally.

Red leaders expected 1 million.

[hammered]

From the Updates thread .... and says it all really .....

TAN Network:

Red protests going strong in front of 11th Infantry Regiment

Authorities estimate around 5,000-6,000 red-shirt protesters have joined the mass red shirt rally.

Red leaders expected 1 million.

I think you'll find it different tomorrow and Sunday. I doubt 1 million but several hundred thousand

[jdinasia]

There wasn't that much action in Chiang Mai today for sure! I expected to hear and see far more than I did. (I am within shouting distance of their stage.