The 2010 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

To one and all, just my two pennys worth, over valued probably.

Facts are facts, frequently blurred by ambiguity of the rules and of course most individuals interpretations of said facts and rules but in my humble view and certainly not as an expert, that makes the topic purely subjective thus making everyones opinion valid, beg to differ people and move on.

The End.

P.S. Been nice chatting with you all. David.:jap:

Some worthy sentiments there and apologies for my part in dragging things sideways somewhat.

I appreciate a number of well respected and well-informed contributers to the discussion, such as yourself David, get turned off by the occasional bout of frivilous bickering that contentious issues can end up descending to - as the last couple of pages demonstrate - but i do hope it doesn't cause you or anyone else to stay away permanently. It's the last thing i would want to be responsible for. :jap:

[WarpSpeed]

So what we are saying then is that the rule is black and white and anyone with knowledge of motor racing would know that Lewis broke the rule... but we are not sure what the exact rule is. As you say then, clearly no debate about it.

Have to agree that where specs are concerned there is only grey but track regs are not supposed to be that way though they clearly are when ever it's convenient in any form of professional motorsports sadly enough..

Edited August 14, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[rixalex]

Without wishing to be rude I suspect I probably do, you don't write as someone who has or has had involvement in the sport. Am I wrong ?

It depends what is deemed as involvement, but i'd rather not get into some form of pissing contest in comparing what qualifies us to comment. This is a public forum where all are welcome and everyone's opinion is equal, like it or not.

I don't mean to get into a pissing contest either, I was responding to the facetious comment in your previous post which in retrospect was wrong for me to do so and I apologise. Yes this forum is for all.

No apology needed but appreciated nonetheless. I enjoy spirited debate and take nothing on here personally or indeed that seriously. Even though i might disagree with your viewpoint regularly, i remain interested in it always. :jap:

[F1fanatic]

To one and all, just my two pennys worth, over valued probably.

Facts are facts, frequently blurred by ambiguity of the rules and of course most individuals interpretations of said facts and rules but in my humble view and certainly not as an expert, that makes the topic purely subjective thus making everyones opinion valid, beg to differ people and move on.

The End.

P.S. Been nice chatting with you all. David.:jap:

Have to agree. Having read thru' the last 2 pages - there was nothing to add other than common sense and the actual rule!

I guess you don't like my prose then

Seriously though, well said to you both !

Not at all! It was v entertaining - but sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees....

This argument (IMO) was one of those.

[PattayaParent]

It is sometimes worth reading what the rules actually say as sometimes peoples 'understanding' of the rule may not be what is written in black and white and even the commentators (the so called experts who should know) disagree what is actually the situation. eg. Schumachers overtaking under the safety car which prompted a change in the rule to make it absolutely certain what is / not allowed.

[PattayaParent]

As I keep saying I'm no particular Alonso fan and though PP's post was obviously pointed at him I was making the point that he's not the only guilty party. What Alonso did at Silverstone was wrong and it was obvious he would be penalised, but the same applies to Hamilton's move in Spa and I'm sure there are others. It's pointless to try and make out one is more than the other unless you have some 'agenda'.

Obvious to everyone but Alonso who thought he should be allowed to get away with it.

[b19bry]

As I keep saying I'm no particular Alonso fan and though PP's post was obviously pointed at him I was making the point that he's not the only guilty party. What Alonso did at Silverstone was wrong and it was obvious he would be penalised, but the same applies to Hamilton's move in Spa and I'm sure there are others. It's pointless to try and make out one is more than the other unless you have some 'agenda'.

Obvious to everyone but Alonso who thought he should be allowed to get away with it.

Actually it was the Ferrari team and specifically Stefano Domenicalli that told Alonso to hold the position while they (and Renault) debated matters with the stewards. Eventually the stewards decided (correctly) he should give up the place but Kubica retired before this could be done. Alonso then had to serve a drive-thru. He's by no means the only driver that thought he could get away with a similar move.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of another bash at Alonso huh ?

Edited August 16, 2010 by b19bry

[PattayaParent]

As I keep saying I'm no particular Alonso fan and though PP's post was obviously pointed at him I was making the point that he's not the only guilty party. What Alonso did at Silverstone was wrong and it was obvious he would be penalised, but the same applies to Hamilton's move in Spa and I'm sure there are others. It's pointless to try and make out one is more than the other unless you have some 'agenda'.

Obvious to everyone but Alonso who thought he should be allowed to get away with it.

Actually it was the Ferrari team and specifically Stefano Domenicalli that told Alonso to hold the position while they (and Renault) debated matters with the stewards. Eventually the stewards decided (correctly) he should give up the place but Kubica retired before this could be done. Alonso then had to serve a drive-thru. He's by no means the only driver that thought he could get away with a similar move.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of another bash at Alonso huh ?

You obviously didn't hear Alonso's comments on the team radio at the time.

But what you're saying is that Ferrari deliberately tried to cheat as they know full well what the rules are and that there was nothing to debate.

[b19bry]

You obviously didn't hear Alonso's comments on the team radio at the time.

But what you're saying is that Ferrari deliberately tried to cheat as they know full well what the rules are and that there was nothing to debate.

I'm not saying Alonso wasn't party to it but it was a team effort unlike what you tried to make it.

As for cheating, maybe they've been watching some of the stunts a certain the Mclaren driver pulls or tries to pull ?

Edited August 17, 2010 by b19bry

[PattayaParent]

You obviously didn't hear Alonso's comments on the team radio at the time.

But what you're saying is that Ferrari deliberately tried to cheat as they know full well what the rules are and that there was nothing to debate.

I'm not saying Alonso wasn't party to it but it was a team effort unlike what you tried to make it.

As for cheating, maybe they've been watching some of the stunts a certain the Mclaren driver pulls or tries to pull ?

The team wasn't behind the wheel of the car.

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

[b19bry]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

[TBWG]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

:D

I see Nick Heidfeld has got underway with testing the new Pirelli tyres using the 2010 Toyota, be interesting to see what he has to say about it as at the time Toyota had high hopes for it before getting cold feet!

TBWG

[TBWG]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

:D

I see Nick Heidfeld has got underway with testing the new Pirelli tyres using the 2010 Toyota, be interesting to see what he has to say about it as at the time Toyota had high hopes for it before getting cold feet!

TBWG

Oops Correction its the 2009 chassis, which wasn't to bad from what I can recall, if erratic!

TBWG

[PattayaParent]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

But they got caught doing it and had to pay a hefty fine!!!

[b19bry]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

But they got caught doing it and had to pay a hefty fine!!!

Well.........isn't that just dreadful and to think if Alonso hadn't squeaked Ron and the boys would have got away with it. What an evil evil little man he is.......right ?

[PattayaParent]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

But they got caught doing it and had to pay a hefty fine!!!

Well.........isn't that just dreadful and to think if Alonso hadn't squeaked Ron and the boys would have got away with it. What an evil evil little man he is.......right ?

Was it Alonso that blew the whistle on them?

How was he in on it?

[yermanee]

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

But they got caught doing it and had to pay a hefty fine!!!

Well.........isn't that just dreadful and to think if Alonso hadn't squeaked Ron and the boys would have got away with it. What an evil evil little man he is.......right ?

Was it Alonso that blew the whistle on them?

How was he in on it?

As I recall BOTH drivers incl. golden boy Hamilton came (partially) clean only after they were given immunity. Food for thought?

yermanee

[TBWG]

I thought it was Ferrari that wrote the book on cheating?

Well Mclaren stole it and photocopied it then

:D

I see Nick Heidfeld has got underway with testing the new Pirelli tyres using the 2010 Toyota, be interesting to see what he has to say about it as at the time Toyota had high hopes for it before getting cold feet!

TBWG

Oops Correction its the 2009 chassis, which wasn't to bad from what I can recall, if erratic!

TBWG

Hmm This looks quite a beast without the paint job!

TBWG

[Miiyai46]

I've just watched a nice video of Hamilton driving an old-school Mclaren, this amazing car was the one used by the best driver ever ( A.Senna ) to win his 1st F1 championship in 1988. This car won 15 of 16 races in 1988, 8 wins for Senna and 7 for Prost.

Cheers and enjoy!!!

This is the link - http://porlajeta.es/deportes.html

[PattayaParent]

As I recall BOTH drivers incl. golden boy Hamilton came (partially) clean only after they were given immunity. Food for thought?

yermanee

Right, when I Googled it (Stepneygate) the info was that BOTH drivers were called to give evidence, along with all the other team members, so why is Alonso getting the blame?

It also said that 2 members of the Ferrari Team were also involved in passing the information as they were going to jump ship and join up with the McLaren guy in another team.

[JetsetBkk]

As I recall BOTH drivers incl. golden boy Hamilton came (partially) clean only after they were given immunity. Food for thought?

yermanee

Right, when I Googled it (Stepneygate) the info was that BOTH drivers were called to give evidence, along with all the other team members, so why is Alonso getting the blame?

<snip>

Because nobody likes him. He is a "smarmy git".

[PattayaParent]

^that's no reason for b19bry to blame him for something he didn't do though.

Especially as the cat was out of the bag before the drivers were called upon to give evidence.

[JetsetBkk]

^that's no reason for b19bry to blame him for something he didn't do though.

Especially as the cat was out of the bag before the drivers were called upon to give evidence.

Oh well, I still don't like him because of this...

...and because he complained about not being able to get past Massa minutes before the team order went out

...and other occasions which I can't be bothered to recall. He may be a good driver, but not as good as he thinks he is. He has a large fan club which is probably more because of his looks than his driving.

[carmine]

Alonso IS one of the most talented drivers whether folks like to admit it or not. Problem is, he's as obnoxious as he is talented.

[Miiyai46]

Alonso IS one of the most talented drivers whether folks like to admit it or not. Problem is, he's as obnoxious as he is talented.

He is the most talented together with Hamilton and this is the reason why they have the highest salary in the F1 championship this year. All the information here below has been published by Business Book GP.

Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) 30M

Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) 16M

Felipe Massa (Ferrari) 14M

Jenson Button (McLaren) 9M

Michael Schumacher (Mercedes GP) 8M

Nico Rosberg (Mercedes GP) 8M

Robert Kubica (Renault) 7.5M

Rubens Barrichello (Williams) 5.5M

Mark Webber (Red Bull) 4.2M

Jarno Trulli (Lotus) 3M

Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) 2M

Heikki Kovalainen (Lotus) 2M

Timo Glock (Virgin) 1M

Nico Hulkenberg (Williams) 700.000

Pedro Martínez (Sauber) 500.000

Kamui Kobayashi (Sauber) 500.000

Vitaly Petrov (Renault) 400.000

Sebastien Buemi (Toro Rosso) 400.000

Jaime Alguersuari (Toro Rosso) 400.000

Aadrian Sutil (Force India) 200.000

Vitantonio Liuzzi (Force India) 200.000

Lucas Di Grassi (Virgin) 200.000

Bruno Senna (Hispania Racing) 150.000

Karun Chandhok (Hispania Racing) 100.000

[b19bry]

Alonso IS one of the most talented drivers whether folks like to admit it or not. Problem is, he's as obnoxious as he is talented.

Oh right, and Hamilton, Schumacher,Vettel etc. aren't..............peerrrrleease

There are very few nice guys in F1, Barrichello is nice enough and he got trampled all over by Schumacher, Massa is also a nice enough guy (overpaid by the looks) but he will come off second best to Alonso. Webber is one of the few genuine and straight talking guys, be interesting to see how he fares against Vettel in the second half of the season.

[yermanee]

Webber is one of the few genuine and straight talking guys, be interesting to see how he fares against Vettel in the second half of the season.

Right, however I suppose that the fact that Webber hadn't won anything untill Vettel came along to Red Bull has notting to do with it.

Just my 2 cents

[b19bry]

Webber is one of the few genuine and straight talking guys, be interesting to see how he fares against Vettel in the second half of the season.

Right, however I suppose that the fact that Webber hadn't won anything untill Vettel came along to Red Bull has notting to do with it.

Just my 2 cents

I suspect the current success of Webber and Red Bull has more to do with Adrian Newey and crew than it does with Vettel, though Vettel is an undoubted talent.

[TBWG]

Alonso IS one of the most talented drivers whether folks like to admit it or not. Problem is, he's as obnoxious as he is talented.

He is the most talented together with Hamilton and this is the reason why they have the highest salary in the F1 championship this year. All the information here below has been published by Business Book GP.

Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) 30M

Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) 16M

Felipe Massa (Ferrari) 14M

Jenson Button (McLaren) 9M

Michael Schumacher (Mercedes GP) 8M

Nico Rosberg (Mercedes GP) 8M

Robert Kubica (Renault) 7.5M

Rubens Barrichello (Williams) 5.5M

Mark Webber (Red Bull) 4.2M

Jarno Trulli (Lotus) 3M

Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) 2M

Heikki Kovalainen (Lotus) 2M

Timo Glock (Virgin) 1M

Nico Hulkenberg (Williams) 700.000

Pedro Martínez (Sauber) 500.000

Kamui Kobayashi (Sauber) 500.000

Vitaly Petrov (Renault) 400.000

Sebastien Buemi (Toro Rosso) 400.000

Jaime Alguersuari (Toro Rosso) 400.000

Aadrian Sutil (Force India) 200.000

Vitantonio Liuzzi (Force India) 200.000

Lucas Di Grassi (Virgin) 200.000

Bruno Senna (Hispania Racing) 150.000

Karun Chandhok (Hispania Racing) 100.000

Surely some of those at the a**e end of the list should be negative amounts?

TBWG

[carmine]

Alonso IS one of the most talented drivers whether folks like to admit it or not. Problem is, he's as obnoxious as he is talented.

Oh right, and Hamilton, Schumacher,Vettel etc. aren't..............peerrrrleease

There are very few nice guys in F1, Barrichello is nice enough and he got trampled all over by Schumacher, Massa is also a nice enough guy (overpaid by the looks) but he will come off second best to Alonso. Webber is one of the few genuine and straight talking guys, be interesting to see how he fares against Vettel in the second half of the season.

You seem to have missed my point. I chose to comment on Alonso alone. That does'nt mean i think higher or less of any of the others does it. My point is whether people like him or not is irrelevent to his status as one of the best, if not the best F1 drivers.