Thai Troops Retreat In Face Of 80,000 Protesters

[craigt3365]

Yeah, I found out about that pig blood last week...they had us all fooled!

I am watching the red TV right now...there's a lot of folks at the current protest site. Kinda scary....

[Arkady]

Which two governments did Anupong bring down? The care-taker one of Thaksin, and which other?

Did the the disbanding of the two political parties actually cause the Democrats to come to power? The PPP had a coalition before the disbanding. After the disbanding, I believe an ex-PPP (but not banned) MP was the care-taker PM. But the PTP could not form a new coalition government because the smaller parties decided to support the Democrats instead.

The disbanding of the two political parties did not directly cause the Democrats to come to power because the dissolved party MPs were allowed to stay in parliament under new party banners. In fact the Shinawatra clan have themselves to blame. While Samak was PM he curried favour with Newin Chidchop but when Somchai was in office, his wife, who is Thaksin's sister, was calling the shots and decided to snub Newin in favour of her own faction of the party. The result was the dramatic volte face of Newin, previously one of Thaksin's most loyal fixers, and the defection of his faction to the new Bhumjai Thai Party. That tipped the balance and attracted all the other the small parties, whose leaders also resented their treatment under the Somchai regime to defect from the Thaksinista side.

Thaksin is his own worst enemy and most of his woes can be traced back to his own arrogance. If he had not done such an "in your face" deal to take his profits in Shin Corp thinking he could walk on water, he would probably still be prime minister today.

[anotherpeter]

THE NATION: Troops have agreed to withdraw from Govt House, according to reporters at the scene

What are the reds going to do when the troops are withdrawn from all these locations?

What comes after that?

[moresomekl]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

He was elected by the Minsters Of Parliament with full quorum, and all duly elected in 2007.

All the oppositions attempts at votes of no confidence have failed miserably.

By the laws of the land, and all logic, he is a 'Properly Elected Prime Minister of Thailand'.

And he is not a bad man, which is a rarity in this seat it seams.

Elected by what kind of parliament ? What logic ?

A parliament where the leading party the PPP was disolved by a court ?

A parliament where even a naiv would suspect that many MPs switched side in exchange for

some kind amnesty in minor case of corruption ?

A parliament elected by the people ? Certainly not , the people elected another

parliament last time they were consulted . What democratic legitimacy has this parliament

anyway ?

Abhisit who is a nice guy and good looking guy , cant do much now as he

dont have a mandate from the ppl , even if he had the strenght to take a decision

all by himself , a debatable issue .

He must know deep down that his venue in power

is a parody of democracy . And that is why the governement is weak .

He should have called a popular election long ago .

He or the democrat party might even win the election if he is a good

communicator after all .

The army will not move against peaceful rurals and i guess they must be very glad to withdraw .

Someone far higher then Abhisit and who has all his life been caring for the poor would not approve .

This is a sad situation for THailand . First an ex-PM that thinks he can buy the whole

legislative and judiciary with his money , and today a PM that has no popular mandate .

Hope that the situation will resolve itself peacefully . Both sides have shown great restrain

I hope this continues

Edited March 27, 2010 by moresomekl

[RegularReader]

Tulsie is doing an excellent job on the twitter again

Agree 100% - and for those who claim he is baised they should try following his tweets.

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose we should be grateful that the government has not played into anyone's hands and closed down media links or the like.

I think that it is very likely this will all end in violence, but I believe that the government and army are playing a canny war by making sure that it is not they that initiate it. So long as the Red Shirts are allowed to protest peacefully, they cannot win, since the only real pressure that they can bring to bear on the government is to disrupt the functioning of the country, which brings them little sympathy.

When the time comes (two years? three years?) there will be elections, and hopefully Abhisit can stand on his track record of running the country, if he is allowed to concentrate on that.

Remember that Thailand is part of the world economy, and Thailand's prosperity in the first few years of this milennia were shared with every other country in the world, and not thanks to any economical genius on the part of its leadership, which appeared more concerned with ensuring that they could pocket the benefits of the world-wide spread of telecoms technology. Unfortunately, Abhisit has had to contend with a global economic downturn as well as unrest at home.

SC

[hammered]

Tulsie is doing an excellent job on the twitter again

Agree 100% - and for those who claim he is baised they should try following his tweets.

Indeed and even half the very red symapthising bloggers link to his tweets which are probably the most up to date factual info you can get on what is happening in English

[jdinasia]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

Ah yes, Our man from jolly ole England has spoken! He can tell you all about how the elected PM of Thailand wasn't elected because he knows better than those of us that live here in Thailand. Why? because he has the BBC!

I am sorry Robin, that you do not understand how Parliamentary democracies work even if you live under one, but the PM is elected by the MP's and Abhisit was elected. End of story!

Oh ... and just as a reminder the South and Bangkok are actually in Thailand. England is NOT in Thailand. If you live in BKK or Surat Thani or Chiang Mai then you know the real Thailand. If you live in Manchester, then you probably don't

[siampolee]

moresomekl.

Abhisit was put in position by the parliamentary system not thugs, or by backhanders.

You seem to have a better grasp on the situation, you're the man step in tell we poor uneducated fools how you would deal with the matter..

[RegularReader]

Tulsie is doing an excellent job on the twitter again

Agree 100% - and for those who claim he is baised they should try following his tweets.

Indeed and even half the very red symapthising bloggers link to his tweets which are probably the most up to date factual info you can get on what is happening in English

He is ceratinly closer to it than that "twit tweeting from Dubai"..if that's where he is ??

Hahaha 555

[paulandmaneerat]

With all these troops agreeing to withdraw at the behest of the reds, it makes you wonder who is really in control of this country now. If the military are bowing to the demands of protesters, what hope is there for this government to have any credibility? They may not have come to power by traditional means, but they did come to power by legitimate means. And whilst that needs to be corrected democratically in time, the incumbents are legal and the military should be working with, not against them.

It seems to me that the reds are trying their best to provoke conflict after which they will raise their hands in the air and say 'I didn't start it'. They may not have fired the first shot, but if it happens by this means they will certainly have started it by provocation. Taunt someone long enough and they will finally respond. So who is to blame then?

P&M

[tilac2]

Hooray for the reds! At last some hope for the poor people in Thailand.

[moresomekl]

moresomekl.

Abhisit was put in position by the parliamentary system not thugs, or by backhanders.

You seem to have a better grasp on the situation, you're the man step in tell we poor uneducated fools how you would deal with the matter..

I would have disolved the parliement and called for a general election long ago

[RegularReader]

moresomekl.

Abhisit was put in position by the parliamentary system not thugs, or by backhanders.

You seem to have a better grasp on the situation, you're the man step in tell we poor uneducated fools how you would deal with the matter..

I would have disolved the parliement and called for a general election long ago

Why ?

[Arkady]

IMO, I don't see that an election will lead to a PTP government.

In the 2007 election, the votes were pretty even, with the PPP getting a few more seats than the Democrats. Smaller parties got the balance.

I don't see that changing too much, and maybe even more going towards the Democrats or the smaller parties and away from the PTP.

The smaller parties would still probably back the Democrats, which means a Democrat led coalition.

I agree that elections would probably not lead to a Pheua Thai majority government but Thaksin hopes they would at least increase their numbers to encourage the smaller parties to join them in a coalition. Since the global economy is improving slowly but steadily and the Dems are doing a reasonable albeit not perfect job on domestic economic management, he certainly doesn't want to let them stay in power long enough to take credit for the economic recovery, as he did in 2003. As things stand now, the Dems don't have enough substantial achievements to trumpet in an election and the New Politics Party may come out and split their vote in some critical urban constituencies. Another important factor is Newin's Bhumjai Thai which hasn't put in a great showing in Isaan by-elections but another 12-18 months might give them time to raise their game as well as their war chest. More time also favours the campaign funds of all the government parties as they need more time to skim off funds from disbursals of the government budget that have not yet taken place. Pheua Thai on the other hand can't get its nose into the government trough and will need to depend on Thaksin's overseas remittances.

[Jimi007]

Which two governments did Anupong bring down? The care-taker one of Thaksin, and which other?

Did the the disbanding of the two political parties actually cause the Democrats to come to power? The PPP had a coalition before the disbanding. After the disbanding, I believe an ex-PPP (but not banned) MP was the care-taker PM. But the PTP could not form a new coalition government because the smaller parties decided to support the Democrats instead.

The disbanding of the two political parties did not directly cause the Democrats to come to power because the dissolved party MPs were allowed to stay in parliament under new party banners. In fact the Shinawatra clan have themselves to blame. While Samak was PM he curried favour with Newin Chidchop but when Somchai was in office, his wife, who is Thaksin's sister, was calling the shots and decided to snub Newin in favour of her own faction of the party. The result was the dramatic volte face of Newin, previously one of Thaksin's most loyal fixers, and the defection of his faction to the new Bhumjai Thai Party. That tipped the balance and attracted all the other the small parties, whose leaders also resented their treatment under the Somchai regime to defect from the Thaksinista side.

Thaksin is his own worst enemy and most of his woes can be traced back to his own arrogance. If he had not done such an "in your face" deal to take his profits in Shin Corp thinking he could walk on water, he would probably still be prime minister today.

Well said! Thanksin really didn't help himself when he took the funds from the sale of AIS and Shin off shore and formed "The Ample Rich Corp." Talk about in your face! But now he wants people to sacrifice themselves for the return of his Thai assets.

[siampolee]

Classic operation.

The Red Shirt brigrade will consider themselves THE NEW ELITE and start to assume control, no doubt some of the less responsible followers will think they have Carte Blanche to act as they wish.

Oh dear then the rank and file will walk into a trap of their own setting.

Pavlovs Dogs of War will be unleashed

Edited March 27, 2010 by siampolee

[anotherpeter]

Elected by what kind of parliament ? What logic ?

A parliament where the leading party the PPP was disolved by a court ?

A parliament where even a naiv would suspect that many MPs switched side in exchange for

some kind amnesty in minor case of corruption ?

A parliament elected by the people ? Certainly not , the people elected another

parliament last time they were consulted . What democratic legitimacy has this parliament

anyway ?

<snip>

Moresomekl, how often do you come up with this, even though it is explained to you again and again in great detail.

You know the drill:

All the MPs are elected by the people. The majority of the MPs elect one of their own to be PM. Coalition alliances change, which means a different majority select another MP to be the PM. That's how the system works here. It's also very similar to a lot of British Commonwealth systems.

[elcent]

Red leaders calling reinforcement at Govt House now. "This is big battle," one said.

7 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Confusion as to whether troops have actually agreed to withdraw from Govt House. Pls stay tuned.

9 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Reply Retweet

Troops have agreed to withdraw from Govt House, according to reporters at the scene

25 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Red ultimatum for troops: "Leave Govt House by 6 pm or else."

42 minutes ago via TweetDeck

[hammered]

IMO, I don't see that an election will lead to a PTP government.

In the 2007 election, the votes were pretty even, with the PPP getting a few more seats than the Democrats. Smaller parties got the balance.

I don't see that changing too much, and maybe even more going towards the Democrats or the smaller parties and away from the PTP.

The smaller parties would still probably back the Democrats, which means a Democrat led coalition.

I agree that elections would probably not lead to a Pheua Thai majority government but Thaksin hopes they would at least increase their numbers to encourage the smaller parties to join them in a coalition. Since the global economy is improving slowly but steadily and the Dems are doing a reasonable albeit not perfect job on domestic economic management, he certainly doesn't want to let them stay in power long enough to take credit for the economic recovery, as he did in 2003. As things stand now, the Dems don't have enough substantial achievements to trumpet in an election and the New Politics Party may come out and split their vote in some critical urban constituencies. Another important factor is Newin's Bhumjai Thai which hasn't put in a great showing in Isaan by-elections but another 12-18 months might give them time to raise their game as well as their war chest. More time also favours the campaign funds of all the government parties as they need more time to skim off funds from disbursals of the government budget that have not yet taken place. Pheua Thai on the other hand can't get its nose into the government trough and will need to depend on Thaksin's overseas remittances.

It is likely tghe coalition allies rather than the dems who least want an election. They are not ready where as the dems will do reasonably well, and then aftre th eelction there will be all these calls for a national unity government whihc means no small parties. Too much competetive disadvantage for them vis-a-vis now.

Be interesting to see if Abhisit disolves if it looks like a coup or rejigged government coming down the line

[elcent]

now twitter is down here? anybody else?

[moresomekl]

moresomekl.

Abhisit was put in position by the parliamentary system not thugs, or by backhanders.

You seem to have a better grasp on the situation, you're the man step in tell we poor uneducated fools how you would deal with the matter..

Anyway its the past . When election come as they will

why is Abhisit not hiring pro communicators to run his election campaign .

How is it that he cant transmit the message to the poor that

Thaksin was a bad person .

I was in a village near Khorat not so long ago , before the current events

When i asked ppl there THaksin good ? Answer was always "Yes very good"

There lies the core of the problem

[britmaveric]

Well done Reds, keep up the pressure with this peaceful protest.

[hammered]

now twitter is down here? anybody else?

Fine here

[way2muchcoffee]

Elected by what kind of parliament ? What logic ?

A parliament where the leading party the PPP was disolved by a court ?

A parliament where even a naiv would suspect that many MPs switched side in exchange for

some kind amnesty in minor case of corruption ?

A parliament elected by the people ? Certainly not , the people elected another

parliament last time they were consulted . What democratic legitimacy has this parliament

anyway ?

A parliament where the leading party, the PPP, was dissolved by a court for electoral fraud by the party executives. The PPP have no one to blame but themselves. They knew the rules. They knew the consequences. And yet the still tried to rig an election.

You are suggesting that the Democrats broke the law by trading 'amnesty for a change of alliances'. That is very irresponsible. Unless you have some proof for your claim then I suggest you refrain from baseless accusations. I'm very disappointed that you have taken this line of argument. You are much more intelligent than this moresomekl

The members of parliament are the same elected members of parliament that won seats in the 2007 election, minus the ones on both sides who broke the law and engaged in electoral fraud. The current parliament is completely legitimate as they were elected by the people

Abhisit who is a nice guy and good looking guy , cant do much now as he

dont have a mandate from the ppl , even if he had the strenght to take a decision

all by himself , a debatable issue .

He must know deep down that his venue in power

is a parody of democracy . And that is why the governement is weak .

He should have called a popular election long ago .

He or the democrat party might even win the election if he is a good

communicator after all .

What's with the sudden shift to pure propaganda? This government isn't weak. This government has professionally handled itself in almost every way possible. Why do you think it is weak? Also, it has been suggested that Abhisit is a puppet. What makes you think so? Do you really think that the army would be playing things so nicely if Abhisit weren't guiding the decision?

The army will not move against peaceful rurals and i guess they must be very glad to withdraw .

Someone far higher then Abhisit and who has all his life been caring for the poor would not approve .

This is a sad situation for THailand . First an ex-PM that thinks he can buy the whole

legislative and judiciary with his money , and today a PM that has no popular mandate .

Hope that the situation will resolve itself peacefully . Both sides have shown great restrain

I hope this continues

Yes. I agree with the sentiment.

[anotherpeter]

With all these troops agreeing to withdraw at the behest of the reds, it makes you wonder who is really in control of this country now. If the military are bowing to the demands of protesters, what hope is there for this government to have any credibility? They may not have come to power by traditional means, but they did come to power by legitimate means. And whilst that needs to be corrected democratically in time, the incumbents are legal and the military should be working with, not against them.

It seems to me that the reds are trying their best to provoke conflict after which they will raise their hands in the air and say 'I didn't start it'. They may not have fired the first shot, but if it happens by this means they will certainly have started it by provocation. Taunt someone long enough and they will finally respond. So who is to blame then?

P&M

The army and government are playing a game of chess, and the reds don't know how to play.

[webfact]

CAPO readjusts deployment of troops in the city

BANGKOK: -- The Center for the Administration of Peace and Order has readjusted the deployment of troops in the capital to make it in line with the protest situation, according to Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, in his capacity as the CAPO director.

Mr Suthep said at a press conference that government forces had performed their duties satisfactorily in dealing with the rallies with no single case of violence erupting. He said they had strictly abided by CAPO’s policy of avoiding violent confrontations with the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) demonstrators. He stressed that troops were put on standby to ensure peace and order, in order to enable the country to move forward. They were not enemies and did not want to defeat anybody, he explained.

Mr Suthep said the CAPO was evaluating the situation on an hourly basis, and all decisions taken to solve the facing problems were made in line with the situation. He said the withdrawals of troops from eight spots in the city today were part of the revised strategy. The CAPO will continue to readjust its peace keeping plan to ensure safety of government buildings and properties as well as peace and happiness of the people. He reassured the public that the government would be able to control the situation and prevent violence.

Mr Suthep also mentioned that negotiations were underway to end the rallies, but not with the UDD core leaders. He said the Cabinet will hold its weekly meeting on Tuesday at the 11th Infantry Regiment, and the Internal Security Act is still in force.

-- NNT 2010-03-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[elcent]

[

-- The Nation 27/03/2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]quote]

Troops refused to comply with the red-shirt protesters' demand to for them to pull out from the Government House.

The National Peacekeeping Operations Command ordered troops to maintain position instead of pulling out.

[hammered]

Interesting government manouver. Suthep just said that negotiations were underway to end the rallies but not with the UDD leaders.

[webfact]

Peacekeeping Operations Command orders troops to stay put inside Government House

BANGKOK: -- Troops refused to comply with the red-shirt protesters' demand to for them to pull out from the Government House.

The National Peacekeeping Operations Command ordered troops to maintain position instead of pulling out.

-- The Nation 2010-03-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]