Red Shirt Protests - Do You Support A Hard-line Approach?

[jdinasia]

Call for elections, it's not that hard mate. If they continue then you shut them down. WIN WIN situation, but I suppose anything rational or makes sense is beyond the current regime.

Absolutely no NEED for elections (though I think abhisit will make early elections possible as an act of reconciliation) but if he does so under pressure from a mob then what happens when he heads the next coalition government? They come out again and cry to have Thaksin back again and he has to call for early elections again?

No, it's not that hard to call new elections, it just doesn't make sense to do so.

(and yes we noticed that you skipped over the reasoning in the post and just repeated the senseless cry for Thaksin's return )

[britmaveric]

^never mentioned Khun T so now you adding words to my statements?

[tigerfish]

Call for elections, it's not that hard mate. If they continue then you shut them down. WIN WIN situation, but I suppose anything rational or makes sense is beyond the current regime.

id put money on it that if an election was called. the losing side would call it rigged and we would be wright back where we started from in the beginning.

[LuckyFive8888]

democracy?

anybody, anyone, any group can go to the streets and claim that they are fighting for democracy; that modality is democracy itself. but whether they are really fighting for real democracy or not is the question. for what i can see, the REDS are more likelly fighting for Thaksin's democracy and freedom to come back. for them, this is part of the meaning of the democracy that they are fighting for. claiming that Thaksin is the legitimate PM, should be pardoned, return his money back, and blah, blah, blah, all sounds bullshit to me. Thaksin was overthrown because he had lost it. one of the things that the Isaan people (not demeaning) wants from Thaksin is the 1 million baht per tambon scheme which, is by the way, a debt to the people on which until now they are not able to pay off and if Thaksin comes back (debts) will be pardoned, they believed. I may be wrong but this is what the protagonists of the other side of the coin are claiming and in fact also hearing from close Thai friends that are neutral, educated, and well respected middle class people.

thaksin?

don't get me wrong, thaksin did some good things for the masses but then again he also did lots of bad things and things for the masses (for instance the massacre in the south is just one thing to mention) that benefited him and his families when he was in power. all the court cases that were brought against him are clear and proven facts that he indeed abused his power during the time when he was PM. one of the things that pulled him down is his volatile character combined with stupidity and the "will do anything" attitude for the money, i.e., his driver and maids with bountiful bank accounts that not even a middle class person can have, divorcing the wifey just for the sake of financial divide, i know this is just recently but this is exactly why he will not stop fighting for his own personal democracy as he had already came to a point to even breaking up his family (by papers only of course) just for the money sakes.

the real numbers?

in my opinion, the real numbers of the REDS are not even half of the REDS. all of them got paid. but mostly half of them are just on the streets for the money and this is a fact. for instance, a family friend in bangkok with an isaan maid had told that number of her relatives are in bangkok (from isaan) joining the protest because they got paid 1,000 baht per day which more than what they can earn daily if they have work on the farm or construction site, etc. they aare cleaver people and they are on the streets to support their families back home, for me that is being wise although they may not realise that they can get hurt or even die when the unexpected happen; 1000 baht, anything goes.

what should be done?

peace talk. not easy but possible. what should be done on the part of the current government is to have a new and fair election but of course that won't happen overnight but it should be promised (as it was already had) but the REDS are impatience and bieng motivated and pumped up by thaksin. i cannot believe that they even listen to thaksin's idiotic comments after all these years. another very important thing to be done is, thaksin has to face his own music now, he should go back home and iron every bits and pieces he crumpled, serve his jail term (i don't think he will go to bangkok hilton like the rest of the drug addicts, rapist, etc.) in a VIP cell or even on a house arrest (like philippines ex-president) and make a genuine political comeback to clear his name. oh, and by the way, re-marry his wife and denounce all his other citizenship so as to serve only thailand as his beloved country.

Edited March 28, 2010 by LuckyFive8888

[elcent]

An unknown number of gunmen opened fire at Bangkok Bank's Saphan Khao branch in Bangkok on Sunday evening, police said. - right now under investigation.

If this is considered the hard-line approach I don't agree.

[britmaveric]

^well set conditions prior and that mass protests after new elections will not be tolerated and tear gas/water canons/rubber bullets come out.

How about setting up protest permits? Need a permit to do such a thing on a grand scale, and must be approved. If not then no protest. Mind you doubt any of this will happen - makes too much sense.

[mca]

It begs the question that if a Thaksin sympathetic party did win an election fairly and squarely and were "encouraged" to put into motion a plan to have him back and absolve him of his misdeeds would that be allowed to happen?

The current view of democracy seems to be the guy I don't like is in power so fuc_k 4 years I want him out now and my man in. This goes for all sides.

Bangkok people would be advised to move up in my neck of the woods. Their commuting arrangements seem to be screwed for the foreseeable future with protest and counter protest.

[way2muchcoffee]

It begs the question that if a Thaksin sympathetic party did win an election fairly and squarely and were "encouraged" to put into motion a plan to have him back and absolve him of his misdeeds would that be allowed to happen?

No. I don't believe that would be allowed to happen. You would see civil unrest on a scale that makes these redshirt demos look like a carnival at the local temple. Eventually the military would be forced to step in.

[jdinasia]

It begs the question that if a Thaksin sympathetic party did win an election fairly and squarely and were "encouraged" to put into motion a plan to have him back and absolve him of his misdeeds would that be allowed to happen?

The current view of democracy seems to be the guy I don't like is in power so fuc_k 4 years I want him out now and my man in. This goes for all sides.

Bangkok people would be advised to move up in my neck of the woods. Their commuting arrangements seem to be screwed for the foreseeable future with protest and counter protest.

Do you have a Starbucks nearby?

Actually being in Chiang Mai and close to "Red Square" isn't so bad, all I have to deal with are their PA system and the odd caravan that makes the wrong turn

[jdinasia]

It begs the question that if a Thaksin sympathetic party did win an election fairly and squarely and were "encouraged" to put into motion a plan to have him back and absolve him of his misdeeds would that be allowed to happen?

No. I don't believe that would be allowed to happen. You would see civil unrest on a scale that makes these redshirt demos look like a carnival at the local temple. Eventually the military would be forced to step in.

Very likely true --- since Thaksin was the only real point of the PAD/Yellows (and yes for those of you that forget, that is NOT the same as saying Democrats)

[mca]

Do you have a Starbucks nearby?

Sure. We're not that baanok!

[gregb]

An appropriate request to someone like the Mossad who know how to get things done could put an end to this insanity once and for all. Eliminate Thaksin, and then have an election. That is the appropriate order of events. A new election without eliminating the source of division in the country accomplishes nothing at all. At best you get different colour shirts for your endless protest parades. At worst you get civil war.

The reds have it within their power to get new elections. All they have to do is denounce Thaksin. If they're not willing to do that, it's time to gas 'em and send the miscreants home.

[way2muchcoffee]

The reds have it within their power to get new elections. All they have to do is denounce Thaksin. If they're not willing to do that, it's time to gas 'em and send the miscreants home.

It actually seems to be a bit more complicated than that, in light of this evenings discussions. I'll try to summarize the main points and positions.

The redshirt side want immediate dissolution of the house with a general election to follow within a few months. They believe that the coup initiated a series of events that perverted justice and the political system. They do not see any other way out of the current impasse except to press the reset button. After the election they want the current constitution to either be scrapped or amended. They believe that the military had undue influence in both the writing of the constitution and of the way in which it was voted on in a referendum. They believe that the new constitution perverted the electoral process. The object to way in which political parties are disbanded and in which other parties come to power. They will stand by the election results and want whoever is in power to make constitutional changes, preferably them.

The government is willing to dissolve the house but they believe that before that can be done the constitution must be amended. The government is frustrated because constitutional amendments were originally requested by the PTP. The government bent over backwards to make this happen and even included amendments that the Democrats didn't support in the name of reconciliation, only to have Thaksin call in and order the PTP to pull out of the constitutional amendment process at the last minute. Since the redshirts have stated that it is the coup and the following constitution that must be changed because it provides an unfair election process, the government believes that the constitution must be amended before any election can be held. Otherwise the election could produce the kind of unwanted results that the redshirts are decrying. The government is principally concerned about what would happen if, after the election, the exectuves of PTP or any other party were found to have committed electoral fraud. In this case that party would be disbanded as required by the constitution. This would then create exactly the same situation Thailand is in right now.

The government also emphasized the point that they must represent the interests of all of the people of Thailand. They are not in a position to unilaterally make agreements to appease one group of Thais at the expense of the others. The government position is that it must consider the needs of all Thais, not just the redshirts, but that it appreciates the redshirt position and is more than happy to allow them to demonstrate as is their constitutional right. It also expressed a strong desire to work jointly with the redshirt leaders for a sensible way out of the current quagmire, through sensible talks and compromise.

Edited March 28, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[britmaveric]

An appropriate request to someone like the Mossad who know how to get things done could put an end to this insanity once and for all. Eliminate Thaksin, and then have an election. That is the appropriate order of events. A new election without eliminating the source of division in the country accomplishes nothing at all. At best you get different colour shirts for your endless protest parades. At worst you get civil war.

The reds have it within their power to get new elections. All they have to do is denounce Thaksin. If they're not willing to do that, it's time to gas 'em and send the miscreants home.

Hmmm so you want to advocate violence by a foreign govt against a thai and start a civil war? In one full stroke you have made Khun T a martyr and started a civil war. Very smart indeed.

[gregb]

It actually seems to be a bit more complicated than that, in light of this evenings discussions. I'll try to summarize the main points and positions.

I listened to it.

It's amazing they can talk for 3 hours and not even once mention the real source of the problems isn't it? I don't do political doublespeak which is all that amounts to. The reds trying to maneuvre to figure out how they can regain control and get Thaksin pardoned, and the coalition trying to maneuvre to figure out how they can thwart his power base. The problem is, for anyone who isn't a politician, it really is as simple as I say. Get rid of Thaksin and all these shananigans stop.

The whole country would be behind the reds if they'd simply denounce their leader. There are very few who don't sympathize with their plight, but the reds unwillingness to care about how Thaksin harmed the rest of the country is a deal breaker.

In the end, Thaksin has to go. As long as he is around Thailand is heading nowhere but civil war. It is irresponsible not to denounce him.

[george]

This topic continues here:

Thailand's political landmark talks end without resolution:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-P...ks-t351224.html