Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

[anotherpeter]

Dissolving a political party is not an effective thing to do. It's a tool to get rid of the lawfully elected people. Political parties are NOT corrupt. PEOPLE are corrupt. Parties don't buy votes, parties don't take bribes. The effective way to clean things up is to prosecute the corrupt politicians who organize the corruption.

Only the executive of the PPP and MPs involved in electoral fraud were banned. The other PPP MPs moved to the PTP. By-elections were held for any banned MPs (except party list MPs).

[johncitizen]

An hour ago, Deputy House Speaker Apiwan calmed the protesters at Parliament House down by claiming that the military was about to pull its support from the Abhisit government. If this is the case, then Thailand has just come the full circle, lived by the sword/died by the sword, dust-to-dust, history repeating and all that jazz.

Thanong from the Nation seems to think he's right on the money:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/04/07/entry-1

Gen Anupong steps in with an ultimatum

April 7, 2010

I have just heard a rumour that Gen Anupong Paochinda has given Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva 48 hours to dissolve parliament. If Abhisit fails to do so, the coalition partners -- the Phua Pen Din, the Bhumjai Thai and the Chat Thai Pattana -- would all defect to form a new coalition government with the Pheu Thai.

Gen Anupong would not use military force to disperse the Red Shirt crowd at the Rajaprasong Intersection. Doing so would certainly cause a bloodshed. He has some few months to stay before reaching a mandatory retirement in September. He does not want his record to be tainted with bloodshed.

Abhisit now has his back against the wall.

The PM has only himself to blame for his inaction, allowing the crisis situation to develop almost out of control. The Military is now pinning him to the ground.

Abhisit also has a short memory. He is facing the exact situation that his predecessors, Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat, experienced before in 2008. When the Yellow Shirts took over the Government House, Samak issued an emergency decree to hand over the security power to Gen Anupong to remove the Yellow Shirts out of the government premise. Gen Anupong politely declined to do so. He said the military could cause a bloodshed if they stepped into the Government House to disperse the Yellow Shirts. Instead, he called for Samak to resort to political means to resolve the conflict with the Yellow Shirts. Samak hung on for a while before the Constitution Court ousted him on the ground that he submitted falsified financial information related to his incomes from his TV programme Chim Pai Bon Pai.

Somchai faced a similar dilemma when the Yellow Shirts blocked the path to the Suvarnabhumi Airport. He issued the emergency decree for Gen Anupong to tackle the Yellow Shirts at the airport. But Gen Anupong declined to take any action, again calling for Somchai to resort to parliamentary means to end the conflict. Somchai ran away to Chiang Mai for security, from where he planned to sack Gen Anupong. TV Channel 5 ran military music as a prelude to a coup. Somchai hesitated. Again, the Constitution Court came out to defuse the crisis.It dissolved the Palang Prachachon Party or People Power Party, thereby sacking the Somchai government from power. The People Power Party, previously called Thai Rak Thai Party, has since changed its name to Pheu Thai Party.

Abhisit came to power after that incident when Samak and Somchai were sacked from their office in a row by the Constitution Court.

Now the Red Shirts are replaying the same tune of the Yellow Shirts, albeit with a different purpose. Their rallies follow the examples of the Yellow Shirts. They have set up a stage at the Phanfah Leela Bridge in Old Bangkok to hold their rallies. But instead of blocking the path to the airport, the Red Shirts have also decided to occupy the Rajaprasong Intersection, the business, commercial and shopping district of Bangkok, instead. This has adversely affected the businesses in the surrounding area.

Abhisit has declared the Internal Security Act intended to disperse the Red Shirt crowd from the Rajaprasong Intersection. But he is afraid to make further decision for the Military to disperse the crowd. Gen Anupong would not do so if Abhisit gives him the order. Abhisit is falling into the same trap of Samak and Somchai.

The Military now holds an upperhand.

โดย Thanong

EDIT FROM JC: If this proves to be true, it means that the minor parties are basically the political wing of the army, and that any Constitutional Reform changing constituencies to benefit them is, by extension, benefiting the military. So now we see all the offers Abhisit has been making to keep the Green Shirts onside- an Army-friendly budget, support for the Army-Chief handover, and support for a pro-minor party constitutional reform.

The question is, will Puea Thai accept the poisoned chalice and form a national government with the backing of the military, or will it dissolve the house, call for elections and re-write the constitution ASAP to keep the military out of politics and make the Peoples Mandate the ONLY mandate a Government needs to rule?

Edited April 7, 2010 by johncitizen

[jdinasia]

Nonsense.

The people voted PPP in, not the Democrats.

BJT did not exist at the last elections.

It is said ex-PPP politcians were enticed over to BJT with promises of power and lumps of money - thats "politician buying", worse than "vote buying".

The coalition was made up by the "elite" making people agree to work together.

Under the rules and evidence the PPP and the Democrats should have been disbanded, one was the other was not.

The same happened under the coup, TRT was disbanded and the Democrats got away with it.

and its possible to go on and on.....

A lot of points and evidence are not allowed to be brought up on TV forum as its against the rules, therefore I am sorry but I can only use the information I am allowed to post, as I wish to abide by the rules of TV.

ummm No ====

PPP had to form a coalition. This is NOT the USA and coalition governments can be formed and fail and be reformed with no new elections as the "people' voted for their PMs.

Rumors of "buying parties" started back with Thaksin when he started buying up local political machines. That there was a rumor back in 2008 is not strange. It wasn't proven. You kind of only get to play that card or the "elite" card (also B.S.) but not both. Anyone that imagines that ANY grroup could make Newin or anyone else change sides just doesn't know Newin. The friends of Newin group did what he told them to not what other vaguely named "elites" said to do.

Under the riules and evidence only one was disbanded because only one was found guilty. PPP is gone ... Why? Oh yes .. that pesky videotape of a PPP official paying off people!

The same thing with TRT --- they were caught cold paying parties to run for office to avoid the 20% rule. The Dems were not caught doing anything. Level saying something is true just doesn't make it true.

PTP and BJT parties did not exist for the 2007 elections. Newin's faction decided not to rejoin Thaksin's failed proxy party again. I was surprised when Newin did it the first time since he took his fall from grace because of TRT.

Level uses innuendo and rumor and then presents them as facts.

[jdinasia]

Dissolving a political party is not an effective thing to do. It's a tool to get rid of the lawfully elected people. Political parties are NOT corrupt. PEOPLE are corrupt. Parties don't buy votes, parties don't take bribes. The effective way to clean things up is to prosecute the corrupt politicians who organize the corruption.

When it is the party LEADERSHIP that is involved then it is the party that is disbanded. When it is just a party member then it only effects the member. Seems straight forward to me.

[johncitizen]

Either way, it looks like those tactics are about to come back and bite them on their azz.

Edited April 7, 2010 by johncitizen

[monkfish]

Noo No No, No more Military deals please!

Elections are needed and the Military should retire from Politics!

[johncitizen]

Tell me about it. If this happens, hopefully the PT party will push a reform agenda ASAP aimed at keeping the military out of government, promoting free speech and media, and ensuring elections are free, fair and internationally monitored.

After all the tears and sacrifice on the part of the UDD protesters, the last thing Thailand needs is another slippery deal. Call an election!

Edited April 7, 2010 by johncitizen

[kraxlhuber]

Analysts say regardless of the outcome, the mass rallies mark a turning point in a country where the richest 20% of the population earn about 55% of the income while the poorest fifth get 4%, according to a November World Bank study. That income disparity is among Asia's widest, it showed.

Wow, I need to go back and look at stats but if this is true then the rich here are not at all that rich. 20% of the population?!?!? That is huge or more than half of the working people in Thailand. Another words, the middle class. I think the richest 1% of American account for the same amount of income.

The problem I really see is the claim to 20% of the population only earning 4%. But since you don't supply a link to these findings, I also have to assume they are VERY VERY flawed. Just take one thing into consideration ... Most thais don't pay income tax and therefore nobody knows what the heck they actually make.

I am not denying there are problems here, like everywhere, but like any democratic society ... you wait to cast your vote and hope your person wins. And the same is true when it comes to laws and courts dictating who will be a leader ... just go back and look at Bush's win in the US back in 2000. He clearly had the majority of votes and possibly more electoral votes too but the supreme court ultimately ruled he would be the president regardless.

Also have to wonder how that income earning is distributed now that Thaksin is no longer in the country.

Whow, says,barks my dog ,tenthousend times a day.

I wonder which dim-wit came up with that exclaimation for humans,disgusting habit,everywhere, news advertising ,poeple in the street and of course TN,using WHOW.

why WHOW,in the old days it was ohmygosh,holly polly etc.

[way2muchcoffee]

Tell me about it. If this happens, hopefully the PT party will push a reform agenda ASAP aimed at keeping the military out of government, promoting free speech and media, and ensuring elections are free, fair and internationally monitored.

After all the tears and sacrifice on the part of the UDD protesters, the last thing Thailand needs is another slippery deal. Call an election!

Don't look to the PTP to be pushing through any tightening on the rules of corruption, or in setting harsh punishments for vote buying or electoral fraud. They are trying to repeal the stringent checks and balances put forth in the constitution.

Let us also remember that their roots are the party who enacted internet censoring legislation and stifled the media through libel suits. They are not one likely to be free speech advocates.

Edited April 7, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[anotherpeter]

Tell me about it. If this happens, hopefully the PT party will push a reform agenda ASAP aimed at keeping the military out of government, promoting free speech and media, and ensuring elections are free, fair and internationally monitored.

After all the tears and sacrifice on the part of the UDD protesters, the last thing Thailand needs is another slippery deal. Call an election!

Do you mean like the free speech under Thaksin, where he sued anyone who spoke out against him?

Of the free and fair elections of previous years where the reds didn't let any other parties campaign in their electorates?

But agree ... need to get the army out of politics.

[johncitizen]

More images for those of you who think the military/police are about to do a crackdown on civilian protesters:

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi...3/P9087873.html

(For those of you who are too lazy to look it basically shows soldiers and police sitting with Reds, the Reds handing out water to soldiers and police who have been standing in the sun all day, and Reds taking control of police/military hardware. Note that they returned this hardware, including the LRAD, a few hours later.)

[Netfan]

According to news reports a few moments ago, the military is switching sides.

Surely not the same democracy smashing, free-speech limiting junta dictators you've been railing about for three years? That military? Bad news for the Reds and Thailand then, right?

btw, I just re-noticed the title of this thread. no wonder the military is thinking of bailing on Abhisit.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Netfan

[TAWP]

I have a question for the anti-Red, pro current govt masses out there:

Aren't you embarrassed that it is actually illegal to present a large number of significant points and arguments against your side in a forum such as this?

You should be.

You are stating lies, it is not illegal to openly state the Red's platform.

I mean, you cannot possibly be saying that the Reds have a hidden revolutionary agenda, could you?

Please PM me anything that you claim you cannot write about here and I'll proxy it for you, if you are afraid to be banned.

[hammered]

Should know soo as Banharn wont exactly be oput of step with any sidechanging anmtics although no doubt he will have extracted his pound of flesh for the deal if it is true.

At the end of the day the military takes care of its own interests and couldnt care about any party as long as a deal is done to leave them in a position they want. It could be another behind the scenes poltical carve up or it could be just a load of old rumour. Anyway 45 minuites until Banharn speaks

[kraxlhuber]

Nat Jantakat, a 38-year-old lychee farmer from the north, for one vowed to keep up the fight, making light of the 37 degrees Celsius (99 Fahrenheit) temperature.

"I've been here since the first day and I'll be here until we achieve democracy."

Spoken like a true patriot. Democracy is ending the present government, sending Thailand in a downward spiral and bringing back the man on the run to restore his ill gotten gain. What a buffalo.

maybe that ironbuffalodriving somtamplara swilling fellow is really a ..

Leeches farmer,providing blood for the fellows to paint"downtown RED)

[moresomekl]

According to news reports a few moments ago, the military is switching sides.

Rumors are that Abhisit is through with an interim government to come in of PTP and other coalition parties. We should know shortly.

That would be the right thing to do . I hope they succeed

[moresomekl]

According to news reports a few moments ago, the military is switching sides.

You have the link to that info ?

If true in fact the army is not switching side , the army is taking NO SIDE .

Thats different .

Anyway dispersing demonstrators is a job for the police not the army , using

crowd control tools .

[britmaveric]

BIB are useless at crowd control.... they normally turn and run.

[animatic]

If Banharn's words are true he is worried that the government is about to REALLY assert control.

Not the words od someone expecting a paralyzed unity government and an army betrayal.

There are more rumors and any public pronouncement is spun by partisans to the 9th degree.

But doesn't make it true.

[Netfan]

BIB are useless at crowd control.... they normally turn and run.

Very true - the football fracas a few weeks ago was a prime example - no clue at all.

[pisico]

Some people. because they have been inconvenienced in their shopping and daily routines. But to call them savages is over the top.

Savages they are not. They are courageous and have a legitimate grievance. It is interesting that when the Yellow shirts in an unruly action stopped all air traffic at the airports no one called them savages. It is true this current government came into being as a result of a military coup. It is also true that the North of the country is impoverished and that all the wealth is accumulated in Bangkok, the cash cow of the country. Reds, albeit in a way that denotes frustration and anger, are not a violent bunch. How many deaths have been clearly adjudicated to their doing? They want a change that will benefit the poor masses as well, at least that some attention be given to them so their lives can prosper. Do not be harsh and rule them as savages without understanding and/or experiencing their living conditions and needs. Peaceful demonstrations from opposing views make a country stronger. "Freedom of expression is the battlefield of ideas." Thomas Jefferson. Thailand will emerge a better country from this episode.

Analysts say regardless of the outcome, the mass rallies mark a turning point in a country where the richest 20% of the population earn about 55% of the income while the poorest fifth get 4%, according to a November World Bank study. That income disparity is among Asia's widest, it showed.

[TAWP]

I did not dodge the question.

I answered it in the first line.

There are other media sources with the information, however as per the rules of TV I am not allowed to mention them or refer to them

So sorry, I am unable to answer the question.

You can mention them, you just can't link to them.

There are plenty of other media sources quoted and mentioned in TV.

Try again...

Sorry, I have been told firmly to not mention them, link to them, quote them, refer to them etc...

So I cannot. I will abide by the rules of TV.

I am calling your bluff -> Please PM your sources to me.

[moresomekl]

So now it seems there is an emergency decree .

Question is who will enforce it ?

And against whom ? The red shirts or the governement ?

Edit : state of emergency

Edited April 7, 2010 by moresomekl

[britmaveric]

No one as usual...

[Throatwobbler]

Levelhead and others.

Do you think it is possible, at the moment, to have free and fair elections?

Elections where politicians from all sides can travel freely and safely to all parts of the country. Where they can canvass for votes without intimidation and without threats of violence.

Elections where who has the deepest pocket does not win the elections. Elections where people listen to the policies and decide to vote for who they think will do the best job for them and the country. Not have their vote decided by who gives them a few hundred baht.

When elections can be held under these conditions I say, yes hold elections now.

Elections which are not held under these conditions are NOT free and fair.

So a serious question. Do you think elections like this could be held now?

[moresomekl]

No one as usual...

Probably .... though if the army is not going to move , and the police is not moving

as we saw till now why declare a state of emergency ?

Something must have changed ..

[britmaveric]

^put fear into the protesters I would imagine, psychological warfare.

[moresomekl]

Levelhead and others.

Do you think it is possible, at the moment, to have free and fair elections?

Elections where politicians from all sides can travel freely and safely to all parts of the country. Where they can canvass for votes without intimidation and without threats of violence.

Elections where who has the deepest pocket does not win the elections. Elections where people listen to the policies and decide to vote for who they think will do the best job for them and the country. Not have their vote decided by who gives them a few hundred baht.

When elections can be held under these conditions I say, yes hold elections now.

Elections which are not held under these conditions are NOT free and fair.

So a serious question. Do you think elections like this could be held now?

the few hundreds bahts may morphe into an M16 soon

[moresomekl]

^put fear into the protesters I would imagine, psychological warfare.

You mean bluff ?

That wont work am afraid

[Throatwobbler]

FAce it farangs. You dont really want democracy in Thailand.

You already have it plenty in your own country.

But you chose to be here.

Aristrocracy in the other hand, give benefits to you a lot more.

Cheap labor, higher status, money worship etc.

The way you trying to bash Thaksin is the ONLY way you can look down the Reds.

Just because Reds love Thaksin doesnt mean they are idiots.

Reds love Thaksin not because he is a goodman. Take that in your ignorant face.

Aristrocracy never let people choose one. And they will NEVER allow thais to have one.

Thais are sadly 'forced' to adore one person.

If you are educated enough, you should know it by now.

That's a very general comment and tars all farangs with the same brush. Such general statements are usually a sign of lower intelligence and hatred. Think racism, bigotry, xenophobia etc